[PeanutButter]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-rationing-gas-drivers
More to read in the article

“Due to weather-related impacts to the Trans Mountain pipeline and damage to the roadways, there is a reduced but steady supply of gasoline,” Farnworth says.

The order begins effective immediately and will remain in place until December 1, 2021. It will apply to fuel suppliers in the Lower Mainland to the Hope region, the Sea to Sky region, Sunshine Coast, Gulf Islands, and Vancouver Island.

Non-essential vehicles, including the general public, will be limited to 30 litres per trip at retail gas stations. Essential vehicles, however, will have unrestricted access to fuel — these vehicles will use “predominantly commercial trucking gas stations,” which use card locks.

[mikemhg]

Oh fuck, prepare for $2 per liter shortly.

Already seeing people queue up like mad at some local gas stations...

[highfive]

^like why? i can go to one intersection and refill 60 litres at 2 stations?

[mj_39]

How do “all” gas stations limit you to 30L? From my understanding you can limit the “$” amount but not how much you can pour? Please correct me if I’m wrong, I also heard from a friend who just visited a gas station that it’s going to be an honour system.

[Manic!]

How do “all” gas stations limit you to 30L? From my understanding you can limit the “$” amount but not how much you can pour? Please correct me if I’m wrong, I also heard from a friend who just visited a gas station that it’s going to be an honour system.

We can stop pumps from the inside if we want. On the Island we don't have a fuel shortage but a delivery problem from what I understand. We had 4 days of fuel at our station but sold it in 2. The company that delivers our fuel is backlogged.

[punkwax]

Good thing I just got into an F150.. I’d have to hit 5 gas stations to fill it up :drunk:

[Oshiguru]

This restriction has been interesting. My job involves me driving from the hospital to patients in their homes so I need gas. I've been low but was planning on doing so today. After work, a few hours after the announcement, all the stations on my way home were empty. My set of 5 just started and may have to take unpaid time off because I physically cannot do my job. They mentioned card lock stations but the closest to White Rock with gas and has attendants (most are 24hrs unattended) is all the way at the delta port

I should've gotten a Tesla. Lets see how this weekend goes..

[JDMDreams]

It's time :lawl:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AgileElectricHyracotherium.webp

[SSM_DC5]

We can stop pumps from the inside if we want. On the Island we don't have a fuel shortage but a delivery problem from what I understand. We had 4 days of fuel at our station but sold it in 2. The company that delivers our fuel is backlogged.

You found out this info after you told us that there wouldn't be a supply issue right? FeelsBadMan

[ImportPsycho]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, I also heard from a friend who just visited a gas station that it’s going to be an honour system.


Mike Farnworth said on today's announcement, there is not going to be policing, but trust BCers will do the right thing.

Clearly, he doesn't know Vancouver.

[Spectre_Cdn]

Richmond gas stations.... gong show as expected. Feel sorry for the attendants who would’ve otherwise had a quiet evening shift.

The stations at Fraser and Marine Dr were quiet at 7pm, however.

[whitev70r]

Mike Farnworth said on today's announcement, there is not going to be policing, but trust BCers will do the right thing.

Clearly, he doesn't know Asians in Vancouver.

Fixed it for you.

Yah ... no policing, just honour system so if you need gas for work related especially seeing patients, it'll be a bit of a PIA in that you'll just have to refuel more often.

[ImportPsycho]

At this rate, we wont need any restrictions, there wont be any gas left to pump, never mind 30L limit lol.

It was fine yesterday,
As soon as they announce restriction, basically admitting there is supply issue... did they really expect public to remain calm? FFS people hoarded toilet papers for no reason...ROFL
WFH FTW

[ilovebacon]

working from home has allowed me not to drive much, this means more gas for you :)

[underscore]

How long til the photos pop up of people filling up garbage bags at multiple stations?

[Oshiguru]

Went to gas up in South Surrey at the Shell. They had 0 on their prices and now they seem to have premium only.

Was the only car waiting. As im waiting another 5-6 cars show up. Car in front of me at the pump leaves so I give him space and back up a tad and start to drive in. Woman in a grey Kia SUV comes speeding down between the cars across and plops her car in the spot. Says she was waiting before me? Nope and if you were it was less than me. Proceeds to fill her tank with 60+L. Yes she may also be an essential worker.

Gotta love this. I pumped 30L as the pumps were going slow. Thankfully this puts me over half a tank and I should be good to seeing my patients for the next few days until the refill.

If you're on here I hate you. Thankfully the stall beside her the guy was leaving and made sure no one behind could squeeze in before i pulled up. A little inconvenience and a little conflict to round out the night.

[danned]

make it 2 transactions

[winson604]

Heard about this 2 days ago and filled up. Luckily I only drive max like 20km per day so I'll be fine. Let the games begun.

[Manic!]

You found out this info after you told us that there wouldn't be a supply issue right? FeelsBadMan

The depot has plenty of gas but the delivery companies are swamped because everyone ran out at the same time.

[320icar]

Mike Farnworth said on today's announcement, there is not going to be policing, but trust BCers will do the right thing.

Clearly, he doesn't know Vancouver.

Was he not around a few years ago when salt was low in the winter? Fucking savages

[320icar]

How long til the photos pop up of people filling up garbage bags at multiple stations?

Inb4

https://youtu.be/wsWn_w9Ffpw

[EvoFire]

Got in before the "restriction". Stations were sporadically running out 87 around and was just waiting for a Shell to be out so I can get some cheap 93. Kerr 49th ran out of 87 so I went to fill up the family mobile. We really only do daycare dropoff and pick up, and dimsum tmr with my parents. The tank will last us 2 weeks.

I was thinking whether if I wanted to fill up the blue schoolbus as the little one has been requesting it in the morning lately. 3/4 tank indicated and 2/3 tank realistically. Probably enough to last 2 weeks so I just left it be.

Shell Kerr 49th ran out of gas by the evening rush hour.

[Euro7r]

Isn't this a good opportunity for some of us to tell employer, gas shortage and no gas available in my area, can we work from home in the mean-time LOL. Assuming the work can be done from home that is.

[Eatman]

The Shell on Hastings and Victoria sold out of the lower grades, so they're selling premium for the price of regular

[whitev70r]

^ Now that's what we want to see more of!

[Manic!]

We got a gas delivery this morning. We were out of regular gas for less than 6 hours. If people did not hoard we would have been fine.

[Euro7r]

Every gas station I have driven past in the city today, lineups or out of gas.

[Teriyaki]

Am I the only one that thinks that if we had not announced the restrictions AND allowed prices to just naturally rise due to expected shortages we would have seen people complain about high gas prices and price gouging, but maybe an actual reduced demand temporarily.

[l2_narain]

Am I the only one that thinks that if we had not announced the restrictions AND allowed prices to just naturally rise due to expected shortages we would have seen people complain about high gas prices and price gouging, but maybe an actual reduced demand temporarily.

Maybe it's a way to create revenue for taxes from the pumps so they can have fixed all the roads in the region it was affected by the floods? Bit of a stretch but who knows...

[ilovebacon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hqqm3dH46A

impressive

[Gumby]

Maybe it's a way to create revenue for taxes from the pumps so they can have fixed all the roads in the region it was affected by the floods? Bit of a stretch but who knows...
Lol, sounds like something Hondaracer would say…

[stewie]

Good thing I just got into an F150.. I’d have to hit 5 gas stations to fill it up :drunk:

Sold my 5.4L v8 150 in the summer and got a civic instead. Price can jump to $2/L and I'd probably still be laughing at how much I'm saving in comparison.

[ilovebacon]

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/259244897_1139679183507658_2499947783821862519_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=EwqNV80QgPYAX92168a&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=2ab37cd8199570e12d423a922c741b1b&oe=619EC5CA

[StylinRed]

From reddit: Cars on a residential street in burnaby had their tanks siphoned by thieves

https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/they-drained-us-burnaby-man-says-gas-thieves-siphoned-street-amid-restrictions-4781687

“I thought that I must’ve left it open when I filled up on Friday night,” he said. “I was wrong.”

Instead, John saw that the plastic cover on the gas tank was also open. That’s when he realized something was really wrong.

“When I fired up my car, my gauge said my gas tank was on empty,” said John, who doesn’t want to identify the street in case other thieves get any bright ideas. “Someone had siphoned out all of the gas. I got out and took a look around and saw the flaps open on most of the cars on our street. They drained us.”
smh

[whitev70r]

^ just hope the gas thieves did the honourable thing and siphoned only 30L.

[ImportPsycho]

Gas just became that much more valuable and so you get people stealing it

No it didn't, price actually went down today.
It's more readily available for thieves to steal. every cars in the city has full tank of gas now lol

[Hehe]

It's really a great time to start thinking going EV. The gas situation is pretty bad. My in-law just gave up after hitting stations after stations of either out of gas or a huge line-up. He dropped off his X5 today so that he could take my Model 3 that he's going to charge with a 110V at his place. :fuckthatshit:

The so-called "convenience" of ICE cars relies heavily on a very fragile logistic system. When shits happen, that convenience ceases to exist or price goes through the roof. EV, otoh, depends on electricity that's pretty much the most important infrastructure. We could go days without water/gas, but during any major disaster, electricity is the first thing to be restored as many things in our life, as well as the equipment needed for the repairs, depend on power. Heck... even gas station can't operate when the power goes out.

[Manic!]

It's really a great time to start thinking going EV. The gas situation is pretty bad. My in-law just gave up after hitting stations after stations of either out of gas or a huge line-up. He dropped off his X5 today so that he could take my Model 3 that he's going to charge with a 110V at his place. :fuckthatshit:

The so-called "convenience" of ICE cars relies heavily on a very fragile logistic system. When shits happen, that convenience ceases to exist or price goes through the roof. EV, otoh, depends on electricity that's pretty much the most important infrastructure. We could go days without water/gas, but during any major disaster, electricity is the first thing to be restored as many things in our life, as well as the equipment needed for the repairs, depend on power. Heck... even gas station can't operate when the power goes out.

Anything that see's a 40% to 50% increase overnight is going to have problems including the electrical grid. Last time there was a major power outage some people in Nanaimo were out of power for more than 7 days.

[twitchyzero]

The so-called "convenience" of ICE cars relies heavily on a very fragile logistic system. When shits happen, that convenience ceases to exist or price goes through the roof. EV, otoh, depends on electricity that's pretty much the most important infrastructure. We could go days without water/gas, but during any major disaster, electricity is the first thing to be restored as many things in our life, as well as the equipment needed for the repairs, depend on power. Heck... even gas station can't operate when the power goes out.

LOL i'm sure that's why all the emergency services rely on EV

did you already forget about the texas winter storm this year

[GLOW]

It's really a great time to start thinking going EV. The gas situation is pretty bad. My in-law just gave up after hitting stations after stations of either out of gas or a huge line-up. He dropped off his X5 today so that he could take my Model 3 that he's going to charge with a 110V at his place. :fuckthatshit:

The so-called "convenience" of ICE cars relies heavily on a very fragile logistic system. When shits happen, that convenience ceases to exist or price goes through the roof. EV, otoh, depends on electricity that's pretty much the most important infrastructure. We could go days without water/gas, but during any major disaster, electricity is the first thing to be restored as many things in our life, as well as the equipment needed for the repairs, depend on power. Heck... even gas station can't operate when the power goes out.

as long as infrastructure is maintained, sure. once the grid goes, i think diesel will age better than a battery in the zombie apocalypse. but then again you can put your home on a backup genset...running on diesel Kappa :troll:

@twitchy funny you should say that, CoV just released the 1st pilot model of an EV fire truck

[Hehe]

as long as infrastructure is maintained, sure. once the grid goes, i think diesel will age better than a battery in the zombie apocalypse. but then again you can put your home on a backup genset...running on diesel Kappa :troll:

@twitchy funny you should say that, CoV just released the 1st pilot model of an EV fire truck

Any gas station in the lower mainland that has a mechanical backup pump in case of a power outage? :lawl:

When power is out, it doesn't matter if it's EV or ICE car. None of them will get refueled. What I'm suggesting is that electricity is much less affected by market fluctuation and events. BCHydro adjust the price every what? 5yrs? And it requires going through some bat shit political fight whenever it's changed. And any BCHydro outage, including those that happened this time during flood... except those extreme cases where water prevents the repair, all system has been brought back within 48hr with most within the first 8hrs.

Fuel is more easily transported as a storage form... I give you that. But a normal family is not going to store thousands of liters of diesel at home unless they are running some generator system.

I used to feel that EVs can never replace ICE... until a trip in 2019 when I saw an EV fast charger installed by BCHydro at Britton Creek rest area and Manning Park Resort. For those who aren't aware, these are between Hope-Merritt and Hope-Princeton, where you'd see "Check your fuel, next service station 120km" on each side. Or in other words, the middle of fucking nowhere.

Wherever you can bring a powerline is wherever you can have an EV charger. Gas station... not so much considering all the environmental study one need to go through to make sure a tank can be installed assuming the zoning allows a station in the first place.

So, what I'm trying to say is... this event should serve as a wakeup call. I know for many of my F&F, it did the trick. A buddy of mine went from having a Porsche Cayenne on order (for delivery next summer) to a Tesla Model X just yesterday. ICE is no more convenient than EV for 95% of the time. And EV is going to get more and more convenient while ICE is going the other way around in the next decade. Imagine that we are having 1.6x/litre in the fucking winter... what's the gas going to be for next summer?

[Manic!]

Any gas station in the lower mainland that has a mechanical backup pump in case of a power outage? :lawl:



When is the last time power went out in all of the lower mainland? We don't have one but you could have a back up generator.

[twitchyzero]

fuel rationing has pushed some to EV, sure i can believe it

to suggest it's superior than petro/diesel when apocalypse arrives, maybe in a generation

if everyone has to hightail it outta here i'd like to see how long the queue to charge is at hope/squamish will be like

and our grid will need to be beefed the hell up to support majority on ev

[Traum]

It's really a great time to start thinking going EV. The gas situation is pretty bad. My in-law just gave up after hitting stations after stations of either out of gas or a huge line-up. He dropped off his X5 today so that he could take my Model 3 that he's going to charge with a 110V at his place. :fuckthatshit:
Do you have the Gas Buddy app? They tell you which station is out of gas, and there is no shortage of 24 hour gas stations in the Lower Mainland.

At this point, I'd hardly say EV is superior to ICE as far as emergencies are concerned. Gas might be sold out at certain stations. Power could get knocked out in weather events as well. For the most part, they are just as vulnerable, although their vulnerabilities are, of course, a little different.

If anything, I'd say that the gas rationing this time has highlight a need to diversity your powertrain. Best to get 1 gas car, 1 diesel -- hello, used cooking oil~! -- and 1 EV. Then you've got all your bases covered. :D

[Special K]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/pcr-test-waived-bc-border-communites-refuel-us

Because of BC’s fuel limit order, we can now drive down to the states to “get fuel” and be exempt from the covid test. Unintended consequence or planned all along?

[Vansterdam]

filled up in coq yesterday. signs everywhere for 30L max but the worker said I could fill up my tank if I wanted lol

said there wasent a supply or delivery issue at all. just gov regulations

[Hehe]

When is the last time power went out in all of the lower mainland? We don't have one but you could have a back up generator.

And somehow my in-law can't fill up the gas without wasting 30+ minutes in line which he'd only get 30L?

I'm not saying that there are no ways to mitigate. But gas is extremely sensitive to both supply and logistic disruption.

EV is certainly not absolutely free of such. Power can get disconnected and power plant can go out. However, it is much less likely for electricity to require 10+ days of ration and pretty much 0 fluctuations in price.

[Groot]

People out in Abby, how are the gas stations doing out there?

[Hondaracer]

And somehow my in-law can't fill up the gas without wasting 30+ minutes in line which he'd only get 30L?

I'm not saying that there are no ways to mitigate. But gas is extremely sensitive to both supply and logistic disruption.

EV is certainly not absolutely free of such. Power can get disconnected and power plant can go out. However, it is much less likely for electricity to require 10+ days of ration and pretty much 0 fluctuations in price.

So they can’t waste 30 minutes looking for gas but they can take an EV and charge with 120v for 8 hours? Lol

EV owners like Vegans

[T4RAWR]

What if the gas restrictions get extended past Dec 1 :troll:

[Eff-1]

It's an interesting debate.

I think the restoration of the electrical grid would be a massive top priority. But not because dude needs to charge his Tesla. But because communication and data relies on electricity. Keeping cell phones charged and computers running is going to a be a massive need.

But if I had to choose right now, I'd still pick ICE. The infrastructure to distribute gasoline to motorists still far outweighs EV charging infrastructure. If I'm stranded, gasoline is portable and could be brought to me. And refueling is fast.

If the electrical grid is compromised, don't think for a second the gov't won't ask all EV owners to stop charging and reduce demand the same way they are asking people to buy less fuel.

The government really needs to learn from this experience and realize asking people to ration anything based on the HONOR SYSTEM, especially gas, is totally dumb and they should have known better.

[freakshow]

So they can’t waste 30 minutes looking for gas but they can take an EV and charge with 120v for 8 hours? Lol

30 minutes of active driving around looking for gas stations vs 8 hours at home while you sleep....

[Traum]

What if the gas restrictions get extended past Dec 1 :troll:
How long did the Can-US border restriction last, and how many times did it get renewed? :concentrate:

[Oscar_Binswood]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/pcr-test-waived-bc-border-communites-refuel-us

Because of BC’s fuel limit order, we can now drive down to the states to “get fuel” and be exempt from the covid test. Unintended consequence or planned all along?

I asked a CBSA buddy of mine about this for further clarification. Looks like the general consensus between frontline staff is that it's a complete gong show, and they weren't given much direction. Sounded like communications tweeted it out and operations doesn't agree or something.

[smoothie.]

why is there an ev vs ice debate?

own 1 ev and 1 ice, then you get both perks and both problems

[StylinRed]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/pcr-test-waived-bc-border-communites-refuel-us

Because of BC’s fuel limit order, we can now drive down to the states to “get fuel” and be exempt from the covid test. Unintended consequence or planned all along?

My friend went down to get his rv trailer that he has stored at birch bay, and cbsa demanded a pcr test, and also randomly picked him to get screened

[Manic!]

And somehow my in-law can't fill up the gas without wasting 30+ minutes in line which he'd only get 30L?

I'm not saying that there are no ways to mitigate. But gas is extremely sensitive to both supply and logistic disruption.

EV is certainly not absolutely free of such. Power can get disconnected and power plant can go out. However, it is much less likely for electricity to require 10+ days of ration and pretty much 0 fluctuations in price.

And how long does 30 liters last him? Now compare that to how long he would have to charge at 110V to get the same range.

[ilovebacon]

why is there an ev vs ice debate?

own 1 ev and 1 ice, then you get both perks and both problems

because were poor and not rich like you

[Hehe]

And how long does 30 liters last him? Now compare that to how long he would have to charge at 110V to get the same range.

He's got a 5L X5. 30L last him like 2days maybe 3 if stretching.

Yes, the charging speed using a 110v is to cry for... but he really isn't actually spending any time to recharge as one'd have to in order to actually go to a gas station now. He just gets home, plug it in and that should give him enough range for most of his daily commute. (he gets about 80km for every day for plugging it in as soon as he gets home)

[Manic!]

He's got a 5L X5. 30L last him like 2days maybe 3 if stretching.

Yes, the charging speed using a 110v is to cry for... but he really isn't actually spending any time to recharge as one'd have to in order to actually go to a gas station now. He just gets home, plug it in and that should give him enough range for most of his daily commute. (he gets about 80km for every day for plugging it in as soon as he gets home)

We have lots of fuel at our gas station and no line ups now. I don't know the situation in the mainland but we have no problems here. He could get 30 liters at night an 30 liters in the morning. That should give him over 400KM of range.

[TouringTeg]

We have lots of fuel at our gas station and no line ups now. I don't know the situation in the mainland but we have no problems here. He could get 30 liters at night an 30 liters in the morning. That should give him over 400KM of range.

I was up from Victoria to Nanaimo today. Gas stations are quiet in Duncan and Nanaimo. Still busy in Victoria but many have fuel and I pulled right up to the pump at Shell Westshore Parkway.

[PeanutButter]

EV is still out of reach for a lot of people.

Many will have to upgrade their panel. I only have 100amps and I have had two electricians say i'll need to upgrade my service to 200amps to support EV charging at 240V. I was quoted about $8k for the service.

Also, we need a larger SUV/Truck, the cost of a model Y is too expensive for us right now and to be honest the model Y is too small. The Model Y is like $80k and that's really the only option for a larger electric SUV.

Until the pricing is lower, many won't be going to EV, even if they want to.

[teggy604]

Like other mention get 1 EV and 1 ICE or you can get a PHEV. My buddy has the Toyota RAV 4 Prime and hes really does have the best of both worlds. lol.

[Traum]

Price-wise, the upfront cost of EVs are certainly still more expensive than an equivalently sized ICE vehicle, and that larger upfront cost is always an obstacle for many people. IMO, people really have to do the math to figure out how long it'll be for the EV ownership to become cheaper than ICE ownership, and make their decisions based on that.

On the other hand, I don't think having just a 100A service at home is necessarily a show stopping obstacle to EV ownership. It could be inconvenient, but I think it can certainly be made to work with a single EV. In some cases, people might even be able to get by with just L1 charging. IMO, as long as you set up L2 charging at home -- and that only needs a 240V outlet -- there shouldn't be any problems supporting a single EV even if you only have 100A service.
EV is still out of reach for a lot of people.

Many will have to upgrade their panel. I only have 100amps and I have had two electricians say i'll need to upgrade my service to 200amps to support EV charging at 240V. I was quoted about $8k for the service.

Also, we need a larger SUV/Truck, the cost of a model Y is too expensive for us right now and to be honest the model Y is too small. The Model Y is like $80k and that's really the only option for a larger electric SUV.

Until the pricing is lower, many won't be going to EV, even if they want to.

[Hondaracer]

If you’re buying a $60,000 model 3, or a $28,000 Honda Civic, I really doubt you realize the cost savings during the entire length of ownership. On top of that the reduced reliability, etc

I’d consider an EV absolutely, however I have literally no way to charge one. I have a detached home but I have no garage, no car port, no place I could install a charger. So I’m in this spot where even if I wanted to, I would never feel comfortable in switching as at the very most, I’d have the 120v charger strung across my sidewalk. There are obstacles for many besides the cost

[whitev70r]

If you have only one car ... hybrid, PHEV is your best bet for economy, fuel, anxiety range, practicality, etc.

If you have the luxury of two cars - one EV and one ICE (or hybrid).

[Eff-1]

PHEV is nice because of more makes/models available and access to the HOV lane (which I predict will eventually end as more EVs hit the road).

But I find it hard to justify the expense of PHEV. You have to maintain a ICE motor on top of paying a premium for an electric motor. Pay for charging and pay for gas too. Plus there is the purchase premium. PHEV is great for rich people with all the money but not necessarily if you're looking at this from an economical perspective.

[Hondaracer]

I’m not too in the know regarding the PHEV but a colleague at work bought a Hyundai or little Kia thing that’s a plug in hybrid

Said it only gets like 30km on the battery? Kinda useless and with the additional parts/potential for things to go wrong

[Hehe]

PHEV might have benefit from both worlds, but it also inherits the problem of both worlds such as maintenance and higher battery wear as battery has limited cycles it can go through. Usually not a problem for pure battery EV as their battery pack is much bigger and it'd be much longer before it gets hit with that problem, and finally the relatively higher upfront cost.

[Traum]

Personally, I wouldn't consider a "base" Tesla Model 3 as an EV equivalent to a Honda Civic. I'd consider the Model 3 to be closer to an EV equivalent of an entry level model from Mercedes, BMW, and Audi. A Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Ioniq would be closer to the Honda Civic comparison, although the match is far from perfect because the Civic is a bigger car.

With a comparison like that, the lower operating and maintenance costs of the EV should be able to make for a lower TCO in the long run. But it is still going to take some estimates and calculations to really figure it out.

To make EVs work as our provincial and federal governments have legislated, the publicly accessible charging infrastructure would really have to improve quite a bit. And let's not kid ourselves -- the ICE cars are still gonna be around for a long, lonnnng time after the planned 2035 date if the governments do not push the date back.
If you’re buying a $60,000 model 3, or a $28,000 Honda Civic, I really doubt you realize the cost savings during the entire length of ownership. On top of that the reduced reliability, etc

[whitev70r]

I’m not too in the know regarding the PHEV but a colleague at work bought a Hyundai or little Kia thing that’s a plug in hybrid

Said it only gets like 30km on the battery? Kinda useless and with the additional parts/potential for things to go wrong

Most commutes to and from work is 30kms (or less) so it is really designed for this which means you hardly use any gas Mon-Fri. When you go on a road trip, then you're using mostly ICE engine with a little bit of hybrid advantage on hwy. Most PHEV engines are pretty small and fuel efficient. I know folks who drive PHEV that gets like 2-3L/100 kms ... plus HOV access. That's a pretty hard to beat combination. In terms of maintenance of a PHEV, don't know about that.

[Manic!]

If you’re buying a $60,000 model 3, or a $28,000 Honda Civic, I really doubt you realize the cost savings during the entire length of ownership. On top of that the reduced reliability, etc

I’d consider an EV absolutely, however I have literally no way to charge one. I have a detached home but I have no garage, no car port, no place I could install a charger. So I’m in this spot where even if I wanted to, I would never feel comfortable in switching as at the very most, I’d have the 120v charger strung across my sidewalk. There are obstacles for many besides the cost

One thing most people don't understand is you don't need a charger for a Tesla. You just need a 220 volt plug. You can can plug the car directly into the socket.

[Hondaracer]

One thing most people don't understand is you don't need a charger for a Tesla. You just need a 220 volt plug. You can can plug the car directly into the socket.

Still wouldn’t work for me. Interesting point though

[yray]

diesel converted benz that burns cooking grease

great for the wallet and enviroment

[underscore]

I'm going to guess anyone panic buying an EV because of a mild inconvenience when getting gas one time are the same geniuses who have been panic buying everything else and creating artificial shortages for no reason. If you're really that worried, buy a couple jerry cans and cycle the gas through every few months.

There's no way I'd trust my mobility entirely to the electrical grid. I don't know how things are laid out in the GVRD, but in the rest of the province a lot of towns have a single line feeding them. One fire/flood/landslide and they're SOL for a long time. It doesn't matter how badly people might want it fixed, if it's toast it's toast, and emergency supplies of fuel will be a lot easier to bring in than electricity.

[JDMDreams]

Filled up gas as Costco today, buddy lady Infront of me ignored the 30l limit sign and was still filling up her 4 runner when I was leaving and she started before me.

The gas Vs electric debate basically makes more sense the more you drive. Ie an average new car is let's say $40k plus after taxes. But rs $14 dollar ballers say Japanese cars are too shitty and can't pick up bitches. So let's say they ball out and get a 320 or c300 that's an easy $700 a month payment before gas and insurance. You can easily get a hybrid or phev for that monthly payment.

Next is gas debate, let's say your average pure gas car gets you 10l/ 100km on regular gas at $1.6, that's $16 to travel 100 km before oil changes and other maintenance. Let's assume 300 km a week, $16x3= $48 a week X 4 = $192 a month in just gas. That's your base cost just to get around even if you drive a free $0 shit box and only fill regular.

Based on playing around on BC hydro site, it will cost around $5 in electricity to charge a base model 3 with around 400 km range. So you are let's say paying $20 a month to travel the same distance as the gas car with much less maintenance.

The difference increases even more the more you drive. So basically the price you pay in gas pretty much pays for the ev payments. And in this weather the model 3 on regular 120v charges at around 8 km an hour, I've seen it go up to 12 km an hour on 120v. If you get home by 7 pm and plug in and let's say head out at 8 am in the morning you gain around 104 km in range over night, this should be more than enough for most people. You really don't need a 240v unless you drive a lot. And worse case scenario you can hit up a super charger and fill up for a few dollars in less than an hour.

[Manic!]

Still wouldn’t work for me. Interesting point though

You can have the plug on the outside of your house. The tesla charger is also waterproof and can be mounted outside.

[Great68]

One thing most people don't understand is you don't need a charger for a Tesla. You just need a 220 volt plug. You can can plug the car directly into the socket.

Actually, every EV can accept 240V. If you ever look inside an L2 charger, all that's really inside is a contactor and some communication circuitry to tell the car how much current it can draw. All of the voltage/charge regulation happens within the car itself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxB7zA-e4Y

You could just carry one of these and be just as a capable as a Tesla: https://qccharge.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/go-cable-tri-voltage-120v-208v-240v-j1772-charger

In your typical house the only available 240V outlets are going to be for the dryer and range. So maybe if your dryer is in the garage that would be the only place this would be convenient for a tesla? Otherwise you'd need to run a dedicated circuit anyways, so at that point it's not really much more work to install an L2 charger.

[Great68]

If you’re buying a $60,000 model 3, or a $28,000 Honda Civic, I really doubt you realize the cost savings during the entire length of ownership. On top of that the reduced reliability, etc

This is kind of where I'm stuck.

Ideally I'd replace the Speed 3 with an EV, and keep the F150 for road trips with my trailer and everything else around the house I need a truck for.

But the EV market doesn't have a segment right now that's really comparable to my Speed 3. You have your boring appliances like the Bolt/Leaf/Golf-E, then your SUV like the Mach E (I don't want an SUV), and then you have your Model 3 performance at $80K. Considering I drive the Speed 3 less than 5000kms/year it just makes absolutely no sense right now.

[underscore]

A fair number of places have the laundry room as the entry from the garage, so in a pinch you could run an extension cord. I know some guys do that for welders.

[Great68]

Yeah I could see doing this in a very infrequent/emergency manner.
But I mean for anyone who's going have an electric car as their primary vehicle they're going to want to hard wire a dedicated circuit. Constantly plugging/unplugging switching between car and dryer would be a pain in the ass. Especially if you're like my wife and likes to do laundry at night, "oops, car's dead forgot to change plugs to the car after the dryer was finished last night!"

[PeanutButter]

A friend of mine has an overloaded panel with a 240v charger, the electrician that did it for him said not to run the charger during the day in case someone is using the stove or dryer at the same time, so he sets the charge at 1am and ends it at 6am.

I guess you can set the time it chargers with a tesla.

He said it's definitely not up to code, but it works?

Seems a little sketchy to me, but I guess if there's a power issue, the breaker will just trip.

[T4RAWR]

What if the gas restrictions get extended past Dec 1 :troll:

2 more weeks of rationing gas

:lawl:

[teggy604]

2 more weeks of rationing gas

:lawl:

Prob even longer if we continue to get these storms coming in.

[Matsuda]

Time for gas runs to the US again

[whitev70r]

Honestly ... this restriction has not had any effect on my day to day life whatsoever. I understand if you use your car for work and all but I think most, if not all, who deliver etc. have exemptions.

[snowball]

Gas prices dropped by 10 cents today, maybe people have reduced their driving due to rationing :awwyeah:

[geeknerd]

EV is still out of reach for a lot of people.

Many will have to upgrade their panel. I only have 100amps and I have had two electricians say i'll need to upgrade my service to 200amps to support EV charging at 240V. I was quoted about $8k for the service.

Also, we need a larger SUV/Truck, the cost of a model Y is too expensive for us right now and to be honest the model Y is too small. The Model Y is like $80k and that's really the only option for a larger electric SUV.

Until the pricing is lower, many won't be going to EV, even if they want to.

I feel like my car is the perfect solution for you.
Toyota 2021 Rav4 Prime.
Charge EV when you can at work, parking lots, etc and at home with level 1 charger.
Supplement with gas.

Had to wait a year to get this car though. Don't know how long the wait is now.

[320icar]

I love the idea of a PHEV, but just like all the others saying it, you now have the complexity and maintenance of both systems. One of the biggest draws to an EV is the simplification of mechanical components

[Peturbo]

Yeah I could see doing this in a very infrequent/emergency manner.
But I mean for anyone who's going have an electric car as their primary vehicle they're going to want to hard wire a dedicated circuit. Constantly plugging/unplugging switching between car and dryer would be a pain in the ass. Especially if you're like my wife and likes to do laundry at night, "oops, car's dead forgot to change plugs to the car after the dryer was finished last night!"

You can always get a smart splitter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzjKHyqx6nY

[StylinRed]

Gas prices dropped by 10 cents today, maybe people have reduced their driving due to rationing :awwyeah:

Conveniently same time we can cross the border n return without a pcr test

[roastpuff]

I feel like my car is the perfect solution for you.
Toyota 2021 Rav4 Prime.
Charge EV when you can at work, parking lots, etc and at home with level 1 charger.
Supplement with gas.

Had to wait a year to get this car though. Don't know how long the wait is now.

Two years. Prius Prime is about a year.

[StylinRed]

No wonder why that cali dealership marked theirs up 2X

[Teriyaki]

No wonder why that cali dealership marked theirs up 2X

They saw an opening and took their shot. Really can't blame em if someone is willing to bite at 2X. Crazy times.

[twitchyzero]

i dont even think barrett jackson will yield $100k for corolla platform haha

[teggy604]

I love the idea of a PHEV, but just like all the others saying it, you now have the complexity and maintenance of both systems. One of the biggest draws to an EV is the simplification of mechanical components


It will be interesting to find out how much more maintenance PHEV would be. I guess long after your battery dies, instead of dumping the car you can still drive it with ICE. And if most of your driving is with electric motors, the ICE would have low mileage. Given its a Toyota it probably keep going until the wheels fall off.

[whitev70r]

I hear Tesla owners rave about low (if any) maintenance on the EV engines. Is a PHEV electric motor that different? What maintenance are we referring to on the EV part of the hybrid engine?

[Hondaracer]

Well a plug in hybrid really has the worst of both worlds

you will end up with a battery that will die and operate at a reduced capacity over time, and then you've got all the typical ICE components that break and need maintenance over time that a full EV doesnt, Differentials, timing components, water pumps etc.

[whitev70r]

So basically you have the maintenance of an ICE engine (which you would have had if you bought simply an ICE car) and the deteriorating life of the battery ... anything else on the EV side? On the upside, you get the improved fuel mileage and savings on gas for years ... I'm still not seeing the 'worst of both worlds'. So what if the battery dies in 10 years, you still have a functional car. If you have an EV and your battery dies in 10 years, what do you have?

Does anyone have real life experience with a PHEV that want to chime in instead of google searchers and keyboard mechanics?

[Traum]

I don't think the PHEVs have been around long enough for us to know what their long term reliability is like. We certainly know the Toyota hybrids have generally been very reliable, but that seems more like a function of them being Toyotas than being hybrids.

With the Toyota hybrids, gas mileage increases over time. We have a Prius in the family since it was new, and it used to get something like < 6L/100km. Now it is doing 7L+/100km at 140k+ km and 8 yrs old. The car is still trouble-free aside from regular maintenance, but we know the battery isn't what it used to be.

[SumAznGuy]

So basically you have the maintenance of an ICE engine (which you would have had if you bought simply an ICE car) and the deteriorating life of the battery ... anything else on the EV side? On the upside, you get the improved fuel mileage and savings on gas for years ... I'm still not seeing the 'worst of both worlds'. So what if the battery dies in 10 years, you still have a functional car. If you have an EV and your battery dies in 10 years, what do you have?

Does anyone have real life experience with a PHEV that want to chime in instead of google searchers and keyboard mechanics?

Newer PHEV's were meant to run between gas and full ev mode. So if the battery goes dead, then yes you can drive it on ICE mode, but of course every car is going to have its own quirks.
For example, the BMW i3's with the range extender gasoline engines cannot run the car with the gas engine alone.

I still don't get why legacy car manufacturers put in such a small battery pack for their hybrids. Why not put enough batteries to get 100 km of range vs the 40-50 km's they do now.

[underscore]

I assume balancing cost/weight with the range needed for most peoples daily commute. The biggest issue I'd run into with a PHEV is I would need the gas engine so rarely the gas will have gone bad by the time I do. Do those things tend to come with a drain plug or an easy way to drain the tank at least?

[whitev70r]

I assume balancing cost/weight with the range needed for most peoples daily commute. The biggest issue I'd run into with a PHEV is I would need the gas engine so rarely the gas will have gone bad by the time I do. Do those things tend to come with a drain plug or an easy way to drain the tank at least?

I heard the same from a recent Hybrid Rav4 owner. But when you get the feel of a regular week ... can you not keep your fuel tank at 1/4 to 1/2 and let it go down gradually? Or just fill 30L at a time ..

Draining your tank ... that sounds a bit of a waste and massive effort. Maybe you can get the word out to those gas tank siphon jerks ...

[JDMDreams]

Most of phev will have the option to run on gas to charge the batteries. So I guess you can just do that once in a while to use the gas, or just drive more than 100 km a day:troll:

[twitchyzero]

thought someone here said their toyota phev will tell you when fuel is getting a bit stale?

to me they're stop-gaps like when we werent ready for 4k displays so it was 1440p imo if you're waiting 2 years for one might as well just jump in both feet full EV route

[!Aznboi128]

Newer PHEV's were meant to run between gas and full ev mode. So if the battery goes dead, then yes you can drive it on ICE mode, but of course every car is going to have its own quirks.
For example, the BMW i3's with the range extender gasoline engines cannot run the car with the gas engine alone.

I still don't get why legacy car manufacturers put in such a small battery pack for their hybrids. Why not put enough batteries to get 100 km of range vs the 40-50 km's they do now.
Packaging.

PHEV needs a big battery for usable range, a bigger motor to drive the vehicle without the ICE turning on but it still needs the regular ICE stuff like engine, gas tank etc. Basically you have two powertrains in one making it heavier, more complicated than standard ICE or EV.

Hybrids get away with this as their motor is smaller, battery is smaller etc.

[underscore]

Well I wouldn't throw out the gas, I'd toss it in one of the other vehicles or the lawnmower or something. Really though if I was buying a brand new car to save on gas costs I'd buy whatever is the smallest, cheapest to run thing for my daily commute (whether that's gas or EV) and then just rent a larger gas SUV when I want to go on a road trip.

thought someone here said their toyota phev will tell you when fuel is getting a bit stale?

to me they're stop-gaps like when we werent ready for 4k displays so it was 1440p imo if you're waiting 2 years for one might as well just jump in both feet full EV route

1440 is better than 4k though lol

[UnknownJinX]

Well a plug in hybrid really has the worst of both worlds

you will end up with a battery that will die and operate at a reduced capacity over time, and then you've got all the typical ICE components that break and need maintenance over time that a full EV doesnt, Differentials, timing components, water pumps etc.

EVs still need a differential and a cooling system, though. I would imagine Tesla and other EV's claim that they are lifetime fluids, but you know how lifetime fluids are.

IMO EV's maintenance savings won't be apparent immediately. For most new cars, you just have to worry about oil changes for the first few years so that's just like $50~200 per year depending on how much you drive and who does it. It's when you need to change spark plugs and high mileage items where things can be very different.

[Hondaracer]

Newer EV’s like Rivian etc. don’t have differentials where you have a motor at each wheel

[Great68]

And the cooling system on an EV is going to be WAY less stressed than one for an ICE.

Your typical ICE runs 90-105°C.

EV coolant runs at 40-50°C, and therefore isn't even pressurized.

I believe it if they say lifetime fill.

[Eff-1]

PHEV Pros:

- Lots of makes/models available
- HOV lane access (not guaranteed forever)
- Use less gas, positive for the environment

PHEV cons:

- Purchase price, plus gas, plus charging, plus ICE maintenance = $$$$$!!

Financially it doesn't make sense to me, but if you've got the money, then go for it and enjoy all those pros.

[JDMDreams]

Yea that's the thing, once you factor in phev still needs maintenance at regular ice intervals, you are only saving on gas money, that's if the phev has enough range on pure ev to not use any gas. But then you still pay for electricity.

So it only makes sense if the phev is much cheaper than the electric version but most often times phev is the most expensive version of the car.

[TypeRNammer]

Yea that's the thing, once you factor in phev still needs maintenance at regular ice intervals, you are only saving on gas money, that's if the phev has enough range on pure ev to not use any gas. But then you still pay for electricity.

So it only makes sense if the phev is much cheaper than the electric version but most often times phev is the most expensive version of the car.

It's pretty crazy to think that the top trim Rav4 Prime is almost 60 grand!

I'm curious to see how the BZ4X and Solterra are going to be priced out.

[twitchyzero]

how much is additional ICE maintenance though? jug of coolant and spark plugs every 8 years? $30-40/oil change? aside from tires which can be even more expensive with EVs it's peanuts compared to insurance and fuel unless audi, land rover et al

[MarkyMark]

It's pretty crazy to think that the top trim Rav4 Prime is almost 60 grand!

I'm curious to see how the BZ4X and Solterra are going to be priced out.

I mean it's not that crazy these days. 6 years ago a fully loaded truck was around 60k, now it's closer to 90k. You know the market is fucked when people are asking 70k for a Tacoma TRD Pro with 30k on it.

[underscore]

how much is additional ICE maintenance though? jug of coolant and spark plugs every 8 years? $30-40/oil change? aside from tires which can be even more expensive with EVs it's peanuts compared to insurance and fuel unless audi, land rover et al

I was curious so I looked up the maintenance schedule for a 2021 Rav4 Prime and said I had a few km on it already. Per https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/owners/maintenance-schedule#/al/maintenance-schedule-form

https://i.imgur.com/2ufYN9l.png

https://i.imgur.com/nZn8712.png

https://i.imgur.com/8ivxSsx.png

https://i.imgur.com/H9vPxqv.png

https://i.imgur.com/KyLY1rF.png

They're not messing around with that floor mat lol.

An oil change every 2 years, coolant in 9 years, spark plugs in 11 years, air filters and belts as needed. What exactly is so expensive here?

[PeanutButter]

I was curious so I looked up the maintenance schedule for a 2021 Rav4 Prime and said I had a few km on it already. Per https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/owners/maintenance-schedule#/al/maintenance-schedule-form


An oil change every 2 years, coolant in 9 years, spark plugs in 11 years, air filters and belts as needed. What exactly is so expensive here?

I am told that people's floor mats get bunched up towards the pedals and that can cause accidents because you can't properly press the pedals.

Seemed stupid, but I think it's good they check that.

[AzNightmare]

I was curious so I looked up the maintenance schedule for a 2021 Rav4 Prime and said I had a few km on it already. Per https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/owners/maintenance-schedule#/al/maintenance-schedule-form


https://i.imgur.com/2ufYN9l.png

https://i.imgur.com/nZn8712.png

https://i.imgur.com/8ivxSsx.png

https://i.imgur.com/H9vPxqv.png

https://i.imgur.com/KyLY1rF.png



They're not messing around with that floor mat lol.

An oil change every 2 years, coolant in 9 years, spark plugs in 11 years, air filters and belts as needed. What exactly is so expensive here?


lol. The list is so long. But most of it is just inspecting stuff.
I mean, I guess if something is actually not right, it's good to catch it early.
But otherwise, it's generally just inspecting and no actual work being done on an otherwise new car.

[whitev70r]

^ That's why it cost $200 for an oil change at dealer. And the shop fees that is now automatically added as a % of the bill. It's like tips on a party of 6 or more at a restaurant.

[winson604]

^ That's why it cost $200 for an oil change at dealer. And the shop fees that is now automatically added as a % of the bill. It's like tips on a party of 6 or more at a restaurant.

$200 if you're driving some balling ass car I suppose. Cars like Mazda's hover around the $50/$60 range, Acura closer to $100 for example.

[geeknerd]

So basically you have the maintenance of an ICE engine (which you would have had if you bought simply an ICE car) and the deteriorating life of the battery ... anything else on the EV side? On the upside, you get the improved fuel mileage and savings on gas for years ... I'm still not seeing the 'worst of both worlds'. So what if the battery dies in 10 years, you still have a functional car. If you have an EV and your battery dies in 10 years, what do you have?

Does anyone have real life experience with a PHEV that want to chime in instead of google searchers and keyboard mechanics?

I drive my PHEV in EV mode almost daily.
I have 5500KM, filled up with gas twice and only because the car is 300HP when in hybrid mode so I sometimes use gas for pleasure :D

I think the costs translate to about $4 for 70km. Probably cheaper if you live at a detached house because I have to pay the strata's energy management company $20/month to 'manage' the account so its more like 3$/70km. I dont drive a lot so that $20 can hit heavy sometimes. I drove a 2008 G35 which was $4 for 16KM or $17.5 for 70km. For me, PHEV/EV was a no brainer.

No maintenance yet but its pretty much like any ICE car but the oil change intervals are somewhat longer. Oil still does break down so toyota recommends following the chart but if you know you are not going to use ICE as much, there are steps you can take like using synthetic and adding fuel stabilizers.

But the biggest advantage for me so far is the OK sticker. Being single and living in Burnaby, I utilize the HOV lane and using the willingdon one saves me so much time. huge +++.

Also obviously this gas restriction made EV owners really gasm.

The battery is covered for 10 years so I dont really worry about the lifespan. I think 10 years is a acceptable lifespan. I drove my g35 for 13years and I felt 10 years was a good time to renew the car. I ended up putting 5k in repairs and maintenance in my last year of owning the g35 and only got 5k for trade in. Of course these costs could be cheaper if I lived in a detached home with my own garage but I dont.

Reason why I got PHEV is because we live in Vancouver. We have access to so many travel paths whether its Victoria, whistler, driving east or anywhere in the US. I dont road trip often but just the assurance alone is worth it. How many EV spots are always full? How many hours do I waste charging EV on the go? Might be a different story 5 years from now but as it stands, I dont think the infrastructure is there yet. Also the 300hp :D

Floor mat check is that switch on the floor that locks in the mat I think.

I think a lot of people are now in the meta of 'Gas is bad' but you cant ignore the convenience of gas.


I dont care what yall stonkers have to say but tesla is just not there yet in terms of being a global car company. my friend had to wait a couple month to get his windshield replaced because of their proprietary tech on the windshield among other things like quality control and fitment.

I can go a bit more on and on but hab to go to work.

[whitev70r]

^ thanks for the real life/experience comments. It sounds like if you choose a PHEV wisely, they can be the BEST of both worlds .. whereas some (who don't drive PHEV) just see the worst of both worlds!

[Hondaracer]

Geeknerd, what vehicle?

I also think it’s kind of basic to compare the maintenance of a Rav 4 and an EV as obviously Toyota has their reliability built in. The best case study would be sampling a bunch of cars/SUV’s in that 45-70k range because I’m sure a Macan etc. is going to be substantially more expensive in maintenance costs

[AzNightmare]

Is there some kind of average mileage you need to be hitting in order for EV to be worth it?

I know it makes sense if people drive a lot. But in my case, when I drove to work daily, I was averaging about 12k/year. My wife does 5k/year, lol.

Now I put my car in storage cause since I wfh, we can really just be a 1 car family now. I guess based on our lifestyle, I don't really see EV being worth it, ever. Unless fuel prices shoot up tremendously.

[whitev70r]

I'll take a stab in the dark and make a guess ... is it the Toyota RAV4 PHEV at 300hp?

[SSM_DC5]

I'll take a stab in the dark and make a guess ... is it the Toyota RAV4 PHEV at 300hp?

No guessing required. He already told us it's 2021 Rav4 prime.

[whitev70r]

Ah ... good memory, way back in page 4 of this thread.

[TypeRNammer]

That's the one thing I agree about Tesla's and it's a pain in the ass if it's ever involved in a collision or requires major warranty work.

One example is that our Tesla Model 3 was rear ended, can't bring it into any body shop, has to be Tesla approved. My wait time was about 4 months before it could be repaired due to a queue.

One warranty issue we had was the rear windshield cracked by itself with no signs of physical hits. Quick turn around for the fix as it took two days, loaner car provided.

Other than that it's a great daily and it's our main family hauler.

Then there's my work car, BMW X1 35i M Sport. An absolute pig on gas but love the car though, even though I only drive it 13,000km a year with an annual fuel cost of $3300 at current gas prices.

[mb_]

They're not messing around with that floor mat lol.


Toyota/Lexus started being hyper sensitive about that stuff after the whole unintended acceleration fiasco. I worked at a Lexus dealership for years and if there was any aftermarket floor mat or stacked mats, we had to take them out during service and the customer would have to put it back themselves.

I am told that people's floor mats get bunched up towards the pedals and that can cause accidents because you can't properly press the pedals.

Seemed stupid, but I think it's good they check that.

You'd be surprised how many cars I've seen that are dangerous to drive because of improper sized or improperly fitted floor mats LOL

[PeanutButter]

No guessing required. He already told us it's 2021 Rav4 prime.

My friend said his wait time for a Rav 4 Prime is 18months and he said they aren't even taking orders for the rav 4 prime anymore...

Anyone know if that's actually the case?

[underscore]

I knew about the acceleration thing, I just didn't realize they were *that* worried about it. I had it happen a couple times in my first car before I figured out the pedal was catching the mat and it's definitely unpleasant.

[winson604]

My friend said his wait time for a Rav 4 Prime is 18months and he said they aren't even taking orders for the rav 4 prime anymore...

Anyone know if that's actually the case?

I wouldn't be shocked because if the wait list gets long enough we're possibly talking about a totally different generation rav 4 lol. My neighbor just went to buy or tried to buy a Toyota Sienna Hybrid last week and was quoted wait list is 2-3 years lol like damn.

Other neighbor put money down for a Prime early in the pandemic, still waiting. Man crazy times.

[whitev70r]

Chip shortage ...whatever that means.

[320icar]

If the STi hadn’t fallen into my lap, I’d still be looking for one of the Ford C-Max phev. Perfect family hauler and daily with the RS. Except for the afterthought trunk that’s filled with a battery…. SMH

[6793026]

Toyota/Lexus started being hyper sensitive about that stuff after the whole unintended acceleration fiasco. I worked at a Lexus dealership for years and if there was any aftermarket floor mat or stacked mats, we had to take them out during service and the customer would have to put it back themselves.



You'd be surprised how many cars I've seen that are dangerous to drive because of improper sized or improperly fitted floor mats LOL

my mom is one of them, she keep putting on floor mats from eons ago... couldn't convenience her to remove them....

[winson604]

my mom is one of them, she keep putting on floor mats from eons ago... couldn't convenience her to remove them....

What would happen if you bought specifically cut mats for her car i.e. weathertech and just replaced it. Would she lose it and demand you grab the old ones back and replace the new with old?

[SumAznGuy]

What would happen if you bought specifically cut mats for her car i.e. weathertech and just replaced it. Would she lose it and demand you grab the old ones back and replace the new with old?

Prolly give him shit for wasting money on new floor mats when the old ones were still good

[Razor Ramon HG]

Grab the Phantom mats from Costco. They're rebranded Tuxmats specifically for Costco.

Custom fit for your car and gives it a nice feel. Just take them out and wash with a hose. Love mine and doesn't interfere with the pedals or anything.