[Badhobz]

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

BMW is now selling subscriptions for heated seats in a number of countries — the latest example of the company’s adoption of microtransactions for high-end car features.

A monthly subscription to heat your BMW’s front seats costs roughly $18, with options to subscribe for a year ($180), three years ($300), or pay for “unlimited” access for $415.

It’s not clear exactly when BMW started offering this feature as a subscription, or in which countries, but a number of outlets this week reported spotted its launch in South Korea.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cePUIDmtOiubV_e-lHpMtjw-4AE=/0x0:1234x979/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1234x979):format(webp):no_upscal e()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23761332/Screenshot_2022_07_12_at_11.03.16.png

Fuck. You. BMW.

[GLOW]

going full on microsoft :lol

inb4 DIY seat heater modz/hackz

wonder if they'll charge per using the ignition to start the car on a vehicle you own Kappa

[bcrdukes]

I am curious how maintenance and break/fix activities come in to the picture?

Say for example, you build your car with heated seats (assuming it is a non-feature on base model) and you subscribe to heated seats. Upon say Year 7 of ownership (likely 4 because BMW) the heated seats components break and what have you. Are you on the hook for getting it repaired or will the subscription model cover the cost of repairs?

[nismodrifter]

I am done with cars.

[ilovebacon]

everything is subscriptions these days.... what a greedy world

[68style]

I am curious how maintenance and break/fix activities come in to the picture?

Say for example, you build your car with heated seats (assuming it is a non-feature on base model) and you subscribe to heated seats. Upon say Year 7 of ownership (likely 4 because BMW) the heated seats components break and what have you. Are you on the hook for getting it repaired or will the subscription model cover the cost of repairs?

They will build every car with the feature in it so there's no more build sheets/customizations on the production line... and then it's up to you to activate it or not through subscription.

[bcrdukes]

:fuuuuu:

[trollface]

They prob figured it was cheaper to just make one type of seat with the elements and then bang you for it than having two skus.

Someone should do a breakeven on this. Say you only buy the subscription during winter, how many years does it take to equal the cost of buying the multi-thousand dollar package for the higher trim right off the batt?

[donk.]

Ok here you go sir, your brand new 70,000$ 2022 bring my wrench series

Now it does come with heater seats, GPS, Bluetooth, auto start, airbags, an engine, and a transmission, but for us to activate those features, you need to pay our subscription

[Great68]

This isn't really anything new, my truck has all sorts of features already built in that just needed to be enabled.

For example, I added factory remote start to my F150 myself. All I needed to do was to get a new FOB with the button, the antenna (which just easily plugs into an existing connector under the dash), and use the FORScan software to enable a bit in the Body Control Module.

Added Hill Descent the same way, just bought the right button from the dealership and enabled with the programmer.

Added the Navigation option to my dad's truck the same way.

My question is, for these "subscription" services how do the cars know that you're keeping up with the monthly payments? Are they connected with a SIM to the cell network or something?

[320icar]

Before we bought the flex, we test drove some Kia/Hyundai. Almost got the telluride, nice car. The Hyundai version rubbed is both the wrong way.

They have an “app” that does remote start, all these features etc but you have to pay a subscription. I got into a heated debate with the salesman about how the car no matter what comes with those features, but you essentially DISABLE them if I don’t keep paying you on top of buying a 70k suv? What if you delete the app? What if we have no internet connection?

So fucked. Fuck you capitalism

[Badhobz]

I am done with cars.

yes this.

Fuck you BMW for setting this shit head precedent on heated seats and the little extras THAT WE PAID FOR. I guarantee you every other manufacturer will quickly jump on this bandwagon and start charging for everything.

[bcrdukes]

Wasn't Toyota going to do something like this for their cars? You'd have to pay a subscription fee to get auto / remote start for a Corolla. A freakin' Corolla!

I would expect that these cars are connected to the Internet by way of a SIM or IoT service.

[radeonboy]

All this nickel and diming by BMW for basic functions feel very backward for a supposed luxury brand. It adds complexity to the system by requiring an internet connection (another added cost) while serving no additional benefit for the end-user compared to the outgoing implementation.

This would've been more acceptable if the subscription is for a feature that is expected to grow and improve over time (i.e. 'autopilot' improvements or UX updates that introduce new functionality), but charging a subscription for something like heated seats where its functional scope is just outright egregious.

[underscore]

They have an “app” that does remote start, all these features etc but you have to pay a subscription.

If it's run through an app your car needs internet access via cellular which costs money because it has to come through Telus or whoever and they charge for that. Same deal with the Toyota one iirc.

Having it run through an app is stupid though. I don't want to lend someone my phone to lend them the car. And when everyone is banging on about pollution and fuel economy why are they making it easier to idle your car for no reason?

[320icar]

@underscore: right. So just fucking build it into the fob. Aparently not an option

[trollface]

I have a feeling it's going to be tied to your app. You sync your phone to the car, and it will unlock the feature for 30 days etc without the connection. Kind of like inputting a CD key that's good for 30 days.

I personally cant wait for my shoes to be subscription-based and Bluetooth enabled.

[GLOW]

They will build every car with the feature in it so there's no more build sheets/customizations on the production line... and then it's up to you to activate it or not through subscription.

back when i was in technology we did the same thing with product.

hardware team put every feature in to the product and made it work for every country we will sell in.

i programmed the firmware to do set features based on country setting. it was cheaper/easier to manufacture/design just 1 standard product and depending on country shipment, set the programming to said country.

[westopher]

BMW continuing to swirl down the fucking toilet. Oh well. Their cars suck now anyways, so any dumb thing they do to make them worse won't affect me, and shouldn't affect anyone with any sense when it comes to buying a new car.

[Alpine]

I wonder how this works...
Buy a BMW, add on a premium package for heated seats, then pay a monthly fee to use it? So you get charged twice?

[Manic!]

I wonder how this works...
Buy a BMW, add on a premium package for heated seats, then pay a monthly fee to use it? So you get charged twice?

Before you had different modules for each feature now you just have one that does everything. So now all feathers are installed into every car. You just pay per month for the ones you want.

This will be hacked.

[68style]

I am sure you meant features, but feathers is a cute description too :)

Peacock of BMW's with all feathers installed/activated

[SkunkWorks]

Old news. Bmw has had the subscription service for years for the turn signals.

Low uptake however.

[Alpine]

Before you had different modules for each feature now you just have one that does everything. So now all feathers are installed into every car. You just pay per month for the ones you want.

This will be hacked.

I wouldn't mind that to be honest. Then I would have full control over which options I want instead of buying a package that's bundled with features I don't want.

[underscore]

@underscore: right. So just fucking build it into the fob. Aparently not an option

iirc Toyota did, it was only the app that cost extra. Was Hyundai app-only? Seems like a prime opportunity for an aftermarket company to make a FOB then.

[ilovebacon]

imagine hacking the car to avoid the subscription fees, just like a cracked game lol

[Traum]

imagine hacking the car to avoid the subscription fees, just like a cracked game lol
I'd totally expect people to do that. At the same time, I'd also expect manufacturers to sue these people if they publicize the steps required to do so. And then it'll come down to some sort of court battle for the right to repair.

[GLOW]

like hacking game consoles, i expect the manufacturer to void any warranty, and try to ban your vehicle from any updates etc (other than recalls and items of safety nature)?

would ICBC be "OK" with you "modd'ing" your car's software/main processor? even if it was completely safe i can't see an insurance company wanting to touch that with a 10' pole and just say "nah - claim denied"

if they sell their car as "base" at a base price, and then offer all these upgrades for fees, maybe there's a market for that ala carte method.

but i can see them being greedy as fuck and pricing their cars above base AND wanting a piece of this pie...they'll fuck it up i'm sure :lol

[Manic!]

I am pretty sure someone will make some type of after market programmer that you would plug into the ODB2 port to unlock everything. My buddy worked on an after market programmer for diesel trucks.

[teggy604]

They making cars way too complicated. At this point, is the car even yours? With a touch of a button BMW can stop all your subscription, stop your vehicle or lock you out entirely lol.

[punkwax]

Private modder shall profit.

[twitchyzero]

i remember when i crammed wireless carplay into my beater when it was only offered from factory at the time through bmw subscription :alonehappy:

[inv4zn]

Before we bought the flex, we test drove some Kia/Hyundai. Almost got the telluride, nice car. The Hyundai version rubbed is both the wrong way.

They have an “app” that does remote start, all these features etc but you have to pay a subscription. I got into a heated debate with the salesman about how the car no matter what comes with those features, but you essentially DISABLE them if I don’t keep paying you on top of buying a 70k suv? What if you delete the app? What if we have no internet connection?

So fucked. Fuck you capitalism

This is kinda false. Kia/Hyundai have their app, and yes it does include remote start...but you still get remote start on the key, which you can use perpetually.

The "app" part of it allows you to start the car from anywhere in the world, and is decidedly not a fundamental feature of the car.

It's like buying a smart TV and yelling at the Costco guy that Netflix doesn't work if you don't pay for it. Very different than the shittiness BMW is pulling here.

[Gumby]

BMW USA has now made official statements on the controversial subscriptions for certain Function on Demand features (i.e. heated seat subscription in Korea).
Just to be 100% clear: Drivers in the US do NOT have to pay a subscription for heated seats or for any other options ordered at time of purchase.

BMW Functions on Demand is a program that DOES offer premium options, like BMW Drive Recorder and Remote Engine Start, via software updates. Based on vehicle compatibility, customers can purchase a trial of these features, then decide if they want to purchase a feature outright.

BMW Function on Demand features will vary from market-to-market. You can browse available features for the US in the ConnectedDrive store at MyBMW.com or on the My BMW App.

For the people in the back: If a BMW is ordered with heated seats, this will not go away, nor do we have any plans to introduce a monthly charge for this option.

Statements via BMWUSA Twitter: https://twitter.com/BMWUSA/status/15...QvQZ9uMi2eFYKw

[Badhobz]

for now.... all those fuckers see's is money signs.

[quasi]

This is so dumb, never would I ever.

[keifun]

:rukidding: what's next? Pay a subscription to use your A/C in your car?

[dark0821]

^ dont give them ideas loool

[k3mps]

Only a matter of time before this gets hacked.
My question is when that happens, will BMW Service have a way of detecting this and any changes made to the BCM or whatever version of their module is and find a way to void warranty

[TOS'd]

Doesn't Tesla already have ways of detecting changes? Wouldn't be surprising if they (manufacturers) all have ways.

[Gumby]

BMW service already has ways of detecting people that tune their cars...

[Manic!]

Only a matter of time before this gets hacked.
My question is when that happens, will BMW Service have a way of detecting this and any changes made to the BCM or whatever version of their module is and find a way to void warranty

It will be cat and mouse with hackers. A company was selling a performance hack for Tesla's.

https://electrek.co/2020/08/22/tesla-fights-back-against-owners-hacking-unlock-performance-boost/

Tesla is starting to fight back against owners who are hacking their cars to unlock a perrformance boost that the automaker is itself selling as a software update.

For a few years now, Tesla started selling vehicles with upgradable software-locked capabilities, like 75 kWh battery pack software locked at 60 kWh, or higher power outputs enabled through software updates.

The most recent example is offering a $2,000 “Acceleration Boost” for the Model 3 Dual Motor.

It unlocks roughly 50 hp in the Model 3 powertrain and shortens the 0 to 60 mph acceleration to 3.9 seconds.

Earlier this year, we reported on a company called Ingenext that released a device that enabled Tesla owners to unlock the same capacity for half the price.

All Model 3 owners have to do is plug a connector to their MCU, and they automatically get the 50 hp boost plus a few other features from Ingenext, like a “Drift mode.”

But as it was suspected, Tesla is starting to fight back against the hack.

Some owners who purchased the device have received this in-car notification after the latest Tesla software update

[Koflach]

Doesn't Tesla already have ways of detecting changes? Wouldn't be surprising if they (manufacturers) all have ways.

I believe that each time you get an over the air update, it would wipe out any changes made.


Tesla does offer subscription services already. The most common one is the Premium Connectivity. This offers live traffic alerts on your nav screen as well as an lte connection so you can stream music, youtube, netflix and other services. They also offer a subscription service to Full Self Driving.

[teggy604]

I believe that each time you get an over the air update, it would wipe out any changes made.


Tesla does offer subscription services already. The most common one is the Premium Connectivity. This offers live traffic alerts on your nav screen as well as an lte connection so you can stream music, youtube, netflix and other services. They also offer a subscription service to Full Self Driving.


Anyone know these subscription transfer to new owners? Since everything is connected to your smart phone how would that work? Would the old owners still have access to the car?

[Badhobz]

im on the lexus subscription crap right now for both the RX and the LC.

In both instances if you wanna sell the car, you can cancel your subscription and they will reactivate with the new owner. You download this herp a derp app that can remote start / lock unlock / track your trips and even give lame comments regarding how fast you are driving.

https://i.postimg.cc/G3xpHXq4/IMG-3888.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/MKZpR1Fd/IMG-3889.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/kXjXyBr9/IMG-3890.jpg

[trollface]

So harsh. Tracking everything.

[Badhobz]

yeh my wife likes it. she can find out every time i go see the mistress.

[teggy604]

^^ so what about those subscriptions that you pay lifetime for? Will new owners get that or will manufacturer double dip? Just like parking stalls if you pay by phone. Lol.

[GS8]

yeh my wife likes it. she can find out every time i go see the mistress.

To show your Watermelon? :ifyouknow:

[Badhobz]

^^ so what about those subscriptions that you pay lifetime for? Will new owners get that or will manufacturer double dip? Just like parking stalls if you pay by phone. Lol.

I don’t think there is a life time subscription. Only yearly for Lexus.

[bcrdukes]

car meets.

fixt 4 u