[jcmaz]

Hey guys,

Just wanted some input from you guys since I'm certain you guys have way more career/job experiences than I do.

So bit of a back story, I'm in the trades as an apprentice sparky. My old manager got terminated and we have a new manager that doesn't really mesh with the team, sometimes talking behind other people's back, initiating unpopular work policies, and guilt tripping coworkers to work overtime/weekends.

He's confided with me that this job, for him, is like running his own crew but with company money. He took the job to learn to become a business owner even though he had better offers from other places. He also told me that there are certain people in our crew that he doesn't like and wants to kick them out.

That was a month ago. Today, I found out that two of my coworkers quit and he fired an apprentice. I found out that if we finish our job early, we do not get a full 8 hours pay.

I'm tempted to look for another job even though my pay as an apprentice is decent and I get a take home company truck. I don't feel confident that there will be a job for me when I return to work from school.

What are your thoughts about this situation? It just doesn't sit right with me that management is allowed to do all these things and get away with it.

[radeonboy]

That sounds toxic AF and I'd start looking around for another position. Based on what you said it sounds like only a matter of time before you're on the chopping block.

[GLOW]

manager's ambitions aside - hard to say without full details why an apprentice was fired, devil's advocate some folks don't gel with some foreman / sites and flourish when transferred to another site. of course i've seen some that bounce from site to site and i find at that point, it's not an everyone else issue but a them issue and they don't last so who knows to the exact reason :lol

that being said i'm pretty sure you should be able to go to another competing firm easily, but shop around and make sure it's a good one. if you're not liking the situation trades are hot, you get to choose in this market.

try to be in situations where you are able to expand your work experience to make yourself more marketable (distribution, controls, fire alarm guy KappaPride, etc). try not to settle on doing donkey work to get your hours in.

often times people leave jobs b/c of the environment & their manager

my 2 cents

[Great68]

I found out that if we finish our job early, we do not get a full 8 hours pay.


Just wanted to note that this is pretty much normal practice for hourly trades workers.

Full disclosure, I'm a PM for one of, if not the largest electrical contractor in the province.

If there's 4 hours in a job, It's expected you to do it in 4 hours not 8 (unless the estimator seriously fucked something up).

However, it's the company's job to make sure you have another job to go to, and to give you enough work to get a full day's hours.

Conversely, with my guys we have a we have a pretty good give/take relationship. If I have 8 hours in a job and they finish it in 6, I'll let them charge that full 8 on their timecard. Then on the next job if it takes them 9, I expect they won't charge that extra hour. It has worked good so far even with the fact that my guys are IBEW...

[Traum]

That sounds toxic AF and I'd start looking around for another position. Based on what you said it sounds like only a matter of time before you're on the chopping block.
I agree with this. The manager sounds toxic AF. You might be on good terms with him now, but with people like this, you never know when you'd be stepping on their shoes, or have done something to piss him off.

The company take home truck means nothing if you end up getting fired for no good reason. If you were a fully certified tradesperson, you could entertain the option of discussing this new manager's practice with the big boss or someone higher up. But at this point as an apprentice, your best bet is to just keep doing your work while you look for other options.

[donk.]

The next time he guilt trips you into working overtime, if ever, make sure you reply with

your lack of planning is not my crysis

[jcmaz]

Based on what you said it sounds like only a matter of time before you're on the chopping block

I'm not surprised if I am on that list but luckily I don't think I'm next next since I'm multi lingual.

devil's advocate some folks don't gel with some foreman / sites and flourish when transferred to another site. of course i've seen some that bounce from site to site and i find at that point, it's not an everyone else issue but a them issue and they don't last so who knows to the exact reason

try to be in situations where you are able to expand your work experience to make yourself more marketable (distribution, controls, fire alarm guy , etc). try not to settle on doing donkey work to get your hours in.

He's worked with most of the other jman and has received positive feedback. But tbh I'm just upset that he's gone since I had to train him and what not. Hope he finds a better gig though!

I'll definitely keep that in mind when I apply for different jobs. I do want to broaden my skillset with more commercial and industrial experience, fire alarm and what not. I'm seeing lots more postings for industrial and maintenance positions and that's what I want to target a couple years down the line when I get my ticket.

Just wanted to note that this is pretty much normal practice for hourly trades workers.

Full disclosure, I'm a PM for one of, if not the largest electrical contractor in the province.

If there's 4 hours in a job, It's expected you to do it in 4 hours not 8 (unless the estimator seriously fucked something up).

However, it's the company's job to make sure you have another job to go to, and to give you enough work to get a full day's hours.

Conversely, with my guys we have a we have a pretty good give/take relationship. If I have 8 hours in a job and they finish it in 6, I'll let them charge that full 8 on their timecard. Then on the next job if it takes them 9, I expect they won't charge that extra hour. It has worked good so far even with the fact that my guys are IBEW...

Thank you for the insight! Our job scheduling and dispatching is questionable at times. Our jobs are resi based and no estimators are involved so some times a job can be an easy one and take 3 hours or be incredibly difficult and use up the entire day with multiple techs involved. Each morning, we are given info on what we are installing and photos of the site. When we arrive, we figure out a game plan and do it.

The sales team does the site visit and that's about it.

I agree there should be an understanding between the office and field guys but to me that relationship seems to be deteriorating.

agree with this. The manager sounds toxic AF. You might be on good terms with him now, but with people like this, you never know when you'd be stepping on their shoes, or have done something to piss him off.

The company take home truck means nothing if you end up getting fired for no good reason. If you were a fully certified tradesperson, you could entertain the option of discussing this new manager's practice with the big boss or someone higher up. But at this point as an apprentice, your best bet is to just keep doing your work while you look for other options.

I'm just going to do everything by the book and minimize my interactions with him. Keep my head down and get things done. Honestly I'll look early next year and see what my options are while keeping an eye out on the job market. The big boss is aware of the practices done by the manager and some of the office staff know as well.

The next time he guilt trips you into working overtime, if ever, make sure you reply with

your lack of planning is not my crysis

Loool I've told them before that he needs to do his job to coordinate with the other departments for weekend jobs and give advance notice (1week) because, frankly, asking guys at 4PM on Friday to work on Saturday is very disrespectful

[Gerbs]

I heard from close friends that with flat rate they're raking close to $150k - 160k atm. Switch jobs!

[quasi]

I heard from close friends that with flat rate they're raking close to $150k - 160k atm. Switch jobs!

I can only speak for commercial but pretty sure that's not the norm. One of my friends has a med sized electrical company 50-60 employees, most his guys aren't making anywhere near that. I only know because we talk business a lot, I'm always picking his brain even though I'm involved in a different trade. I'm actually just about to go see him, I'll ask what his average guy makes a year I'm curious as well lol.

[Great68]

A site super or foreman A might be making that... Certainly not a regular J man. (although rates I work with are standardized since Union, with non-union firms who knows maybe some superstar Jman is making that)

[sdubfid]

Choose where you want to end up as far as residential/commercial/industrial. If you have nothing holding you down move to different companies/locations. You will be better off in the long run having various skills rather than doing the same thing within one company. Don’t burn bridges though and stick with a project until completion.

I would go for electrical and pair it with instrumentation. At my company the electricians work 4 on, 3 off, 4 on, 10 days off. 150k without overtime. You will get a full days pay whether you work 30mins or 10 hours. You are basically on call maintaining production.

[68style]

Even though sdubfid owns the mortal enemy to my 68 Mustang... I now want to work at his company lol

[sdubfid]

Even though sdubfid owns the mortal enemy to my 68 Mustang... I now want to work at his company lol

Anything from the 60s is good if you ask me.

My point being that an electrician in an industrial facility with deep pockets is going to have more upside than being an electrician fixing Karen’s bathroom fan.

[mikemhg]

The next time he guilt trips you into working overtime, if ever, make sure you reply with

your lack of planning is not my crysis

This isn't a videogame.

[bcrdukes]

I think he was being facetious with the play on words.

[quasi]

I had my yearly review this week, to be honest it's the first one I've had since 2019, covid kind of screwed it up the last few years. The background is I've worked for this company since 2011, they've been a good company to work for and I'm happy here. I have a very good relationship with both my manager at our office here and the owner of the Company who works out of a different office, they have a lot of trust in me and I have a lot of input in the direction of this company especially in our branch. It's not a secret I'm pretty sure I've posted it before but I'm a senior estimator/pm for a construction sub contractor. It's a small/medium sized privately owned business with 4 offices in western Canada and has 200-300 employees depending on work on hand. I speak to the owner if not weekly, bi-weekly for sure to discuss business.

The only issue I have was they've always paid less than the competition, they are kind of known for paying less but being a pretty good work environment.
I did a lot of research knowing months ago that this review was coming I really wanted to bridge the gap from what I'm currently being paid and what I know my peers working for other companies are getting. I had conversations with people I used to work with at multiple other companies in the same industry, even my dad and my best friend are in the same industry in similar roles so I had a pretty good idea where I needed to be, I also have spoken to recruiters and in general searching out job ads online.

We had our review, went through everything and then we got to wages. When I told my manager what I wanted his words were, "well I really wasn't expecting that". We talked some more, I explained that I hadn't just randomly pulled this number out of the air it's what other companies are paying, I gave examples of our competition paying that and more I even gave him names of people he knew in the industry who I spoke to, I told him I've been asked to interview for positions offering more than what I'm asking for and didn't take the interview because I like it here, all fact. I explained that I really liked working here, I like my co-workers and I want to stay here but at some point I have to do what's best for my family and I cannot be leaving a bunch of money on the table year after year. My manager even brought up the, well you know this is a good place to work and the he could also go elsewhere and get more money but we take care of our own and we don't micromanage, you have a lot of freedom and that's why we pay less. At the end of it I didn't have a great feeling about it but he said he'd speak to the owner and get back to me but he wasn't sure how it would go mainly due to what others in the company were getting paid and potentially upsetting the apple cart.

Fast forward to yesterday, I received a call from my manager and he told me after deliberation with the owner and after him taking a few days to think about it he has agreed to what I want. I could tell from the tone in his voice that the owner wasn't happy. We talked a bit more and I told him I hope this won't strain the relationship I have with him or the owner of the company. He basically said, listen I appreciate you and I went to bat for you if I didn't do that I'm pretty certain this wouldn't have went your way. You've put him in a really tough spot and you might want to have a conversation with him about it.

I should be happy but I'm not, my intention was never to make the people I work for feel bad about me trying to get what I know I'm worth in the open market. I bring a lot of value to this company, there isn't a lot of people with my experience (30 years in the industry) who can properly evaluate and estimate projects that are the size I look at.

Here I am, up since 2am, can't sleep feeling sick to my stomach for going out there and fighting for what I'm worth. What's even more fucked up after finally getting it I've never wanted to leave here more than I do I right now. I'm hoping that feeling passes with time but right now I'm feeling pretty terrible.

[68style]

You’ve been in a situation for a very long time where you feel like you should take a discount in pay for a work environment and apparently they think the same thing since they literally said as much.

I honestly think a manager saying “We pay less because our environment is good” makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why does less pay = good environment? How and why are they equating those 2 things as being related is beyond me… if it’s all love up in there and the company is prosperous what’s another $10-20k to you? They probably pay surcharges like that on upswings in material costs or licensing fees and don’t even bat an eye.

This company might be nice to work for, but they’re cheaping out at the exact wrong asset, I’d be super choked if I were you too… your care for your job and the company is genuine… their care for you was based on a discount? They’re not the ones who creates a good place to work, all the employees including you contribute to that atmosphere collectively. You have every right to feel betrayed, all you did is ask people you consider friends to be fair to you and they made you feel like shit about it… I’d say your next talk with the owner is going to be a very important one for that owner if they expect you to continue on in this role.

Your direct manager going on about how he went to bat for you reminds me of a salesman at a car dealership telling a customer he went to the big bad sales manager to try and get you what you wanted… it’s a farce, you’re all on the same team! Why wasn’t this a conference call together all 3 of you? Bizarre.

[JDM GTO]

I had my yearly review this week, to be honest it's the first one I've had since 2019, covid kind of screwed it up the last few years. The background is I've worked for this company since 2011, they've been a good company to work for and I'm happy here. I have a very good relationship with both my manager at our office here and the owner of the Company who works out of a different office, they have a lot of trust in me and I have a lot of input in the direction of this company especially in our branch. It's not a secret I'm pretty sure I've posted it before but I'm a senior estimator/pm for a construction sub contractor. It's a small/medium sized privately owned business with 4 offices in western Canada and has 200-300 employees depending on work on hand. I speak to the owner if not weekly, bi-weekly for sure to discuss business.

The only issue I have was they've always paid less than the competition, they are kind of known for paying less but being a pretty good work environment.
I did a lot of research knowing months ago that this review was coming I really wanted to bridge the gap from what I'm currently being paid and what I know my peers working for other companies are getting. I had conversations with people I used to work with at multiple other companies in the same industry, even my dad and my best friend are in the same industry in similar roles so I had a pretty good idea where I needed to be, I also have spoken to recruiters and in general searching out job ads online.

We had our review, went through everything and then we got to wages. When I told my manager what I wanted his words were, "well I really wasn't expecting that". We talked some more, I explained that I hadn't just randomly pulled this number out of the air it's what other companies are paying, I gave examples of our competition paying that and more I even gave him names of people he knew in the industry who I spoke to, I told him I've been asked to interview for positions offering more than what I'm asking for and didn't take the interview because I like it here, all fact. I explained that I really liked working here, I like my co-workers and I want to stay here but at some point I have to do what's best for my family and I cannot be leaving a bunch of money on the table year after year. My manager even brought up the, well you know this is a good place to work and the he could also go elsewhere and get more money but we take care of our own and we don't micromanage, you have a lot of freedom and that's why we pay less. At the end of it I didn't have a great feeling about it but he said he'd speak to the owner and get back to me but he wasn't sure how it would go mainly due to what others in the company were getting paid and potentially upsetting the apple cart.

Fast forward to yesterday, I received a call from my manager and he told me after deliberation with the owner and after him taking a few days to think about it he has agreed to what I want. I could tell from the tone in his voice that the owner wasn't happy. We talked a bit more and I told him I hope this won't strain the relationship I have with him or the owner of the company. He basically said, listen I appreciate you and I went to bat for you if I didn't do that I'm pretty certain this wouldn't have went your way. You've put him in a really tough spot and you might want to have a conversation with him about it.

I should be happy but I'm not, my intention was never to make the people I work for feel bad about me trying to get what I know I'm worth in the open market. I bring a lot of value to this company, there isn't a lot of people with my experience (30 years in the industry) who can properly evaluate and estimate projects that are the size I look at.

Here I am, up since 2am, can't sleep feeling sick to my stomach for going out there and fighting for what I'm worth. What's even more fucked up after finally getting it I've never wanted to leave here more than I do I right now. I'm hoping that feeling passes with time but right now I'm feeling pretty terrible.


You shouldn’t feel guilty fighting for what is right for you and your family. Not sure if “guilty” is the right word, but the whole point was asking for a fair market price for what you are worth. So you shouldn’t feel bad about that.

I don’t really have anything else constructive or helpful to add, but I hope what you are feeling does subside and that the good work environment they are famous for doesn’t change.

[supafamous]

Fast forward to yesterday, I received a call from my manager and he told me after deliberation with the owner and after him taking a few days to think about it he has agreed to what I want. I could tell from the tone in his voice that the owner wasn't happy. We talked a bit more and I told him I hope this won't strain the relationship I have with him or the owner of the company. He basically said, listen I appreciate you and I went to bat for you if I didn't do that I'm pretty certain this wouldn't have went your way. You've put him in a really tough spot and you might want to have a conversation with him about it.

I should be happy but I'm not, my intention was never to make the people I work for feel bad about me trying to get what I know I'm worth in the open market. I bring a lot of value to this company, there isn't a lot of people with my experience (30 years in the industry) who can properly evaluate and estimate projects that are the size I look at.

Here I am, up since 2am, can't sleep feeling sick to my stomach for going out there and fighting for what I'm worth. What's even more fucked up after finally getting it I've never wanted to leave here more than I do I right now. I'm hoping that feeling passes with time but right now I'm feeling pretty terrible.

1. CONGRATS for sticking up for yourself. Talking compensation is one of the most awkward things to do at work and you actually did it and succeeded and that's great. The vast majority of people don't do it and never end up getting what they want. I coach my team on this all the time yet I still fail miserably all the time when it comes to sticking up for myself and it's cost me a lot of money over the years.

2. You shouldn't feel guilty about any hard feelings that have occurred. For one thing, any hard feelings will fade away and, second, THEY agreed to it b/c they think YOU'RE WORTH IT. If anything, if they haven't given you a bump in a long time or the gap is really big the thought is, "Why haven't they done this before?" or "Now I'm just catching up to what I've missed".

Some tips for the future though to avoid this awkwardness:
- Make compensation discussions more of a habit with your manager. Not in the "I want more money" but "hey, this is what I'm seeing and hearing" or "this is how I'm feeling about it lately". I tell my directs to always take calls from recruiters and to tell me what's being offered so that I know what fair market value is - makes it easier for me to go to bat for them and for me to hire new people if I know what's fair. Your manager may have been surprised b/c he didn't know what market rates were or the change was so significant that he wasn't expecting that impact to his budget. Having regular conversations help set the table.
- Total compensation does include work environment and not just money and you should have a reasonably clear idea of what the value of that is to you. I'm in the midst of changing jobs and didn't choose the highest paying opportunities because the winning offer had great work-life balance and I really clicked with my future boss. I chose to give up a lot of prestige and money in exchange. What are the things that matter to you and what are they worth?
- Related: You have family that work in the industry so you probably have a good idea of whether the grass is greener on the other side or not but there are also things that are replaceable. Eg. You like your current co-workers but would you also like your new ones eventually? There are some things that you can't replace and some you can - value accordingly.

In any case, good on you for what you did and don't feel bad about it.

[quasi]

I honestly think a manager saying “We pay less because our environment is good” makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Why does less pay = good environment? How and why are they equating those 2 things as being related is beyond me…


I think the environment is important and by good environment/company to work for they have done some things for me that they were not obligated to do that maybe some companies would and some would not. For example, kid needs braces and we don't have ortho coverage at work, they specifically add 100% ortho coverage to my plan. They let me take time off pretty much whenever I want, never a question. They pay me for sick days, pretty much unlimited even know they don't have a company policy or we don't have a written agreement to do so. They give me the option to work from home or the office, although more common than in the past still a lot of companies won't do this especially in the field I'm in. They pay for my gas even though I mostly work from home. They'll pay for my lunches if I want, all I have to do is submit a receipt although since I've been at home I haven't taken advantage of that. Schooling paid for if I want to upgrade anything, they'll even pay for me to take classes during work hours (within reason I couldn't go back to school full time).


This company might be nice to work for, but they’re cheaping out at the exact wrong asset, I’d be super choked if I were you too…

I’d say your next talk with the owner is going to be a very important one for that owner if they expect you to continue on in this role.


I agree 100% with both of these. I don't know how many times I've made them 2-3x what I've asked for in a raise with value engineering, or getting a product changed all with the stroke of a pen. In my brain I'm thinking you're worried about this amount of money but in the grand scheme of this operation it's a nothing burger.



2. You shouldn't feel guilty about any hard feelings that have occurred. For one thing, any hard feelings will fade away and, second, THEY agreed to it b/c they think YOU'RE WORTH IT. If anything, if they haven't given you a bump in a long time or the gap is really big the thought is, "Why haven't they done this before?" or "Now I'm just catching up to what I've missed".


It's a combination of my this position paying more than it did 10 years ago and me moving up through the company starting in more of an entry/mid level position moving into a senior position over the years where I have all the pressure and responsibility procuring the work and training new estimators but my wage hasn't went up at the same rate as my extra duties have increased.


Some tips for the future though to avoid this awkwardness:
- Make compensation discussions more of a habit with your manager. Not in the "I want more money" but "hey, this is what I'm seeing and hearing" or "this is how I'm feeling about it lately". I tell my directs to always take calls from recruiters and to tell me what's being offered so that I know what fair market value is - makes it easier for me to go to bat for them and for me to hire new people if I know what's fair. Your manager may have been surprised b/c he didn't know what market rates were or the change was so significant that he wasn't expecting that impact to his budget. Having regular conversations help set the table.

I've tried to do this, I've had conversations telling him that hey I had lunch with Tom that I trained who left two years ago, he is now working here and they are paying him X to start which is more than you're paying me. I've forwarded him messages from recruiters as a courtesy
letting him know our competition is looking for a new PM for this project or an Estimator, they'll usually have the pay range on them. I never did it in a way that was like hey I'm considering it but just to help keep him more in touch with what's happening in the market. It's hard because I'm really close with my manager, like we would grab a beer after work or he would help me work on my car we have conversations that are off the record, he knows what's going on in my life pretty well. Hell, our kids go the same school and are in the same grade.

[donk.]

. I could tell from the tone in his voice that the owner wasn't happy. We talked a bit more and I told him I hope this won't strain the relationship I have with him or the owner of the company. He basically said, listen I appreciate you and I went to bat for you if I didn't do that I'm pretty certain this wouldn't have went your way. You've put him in a really tough spot and you might want to have a conversation with him about it.


1. My "managers" job, is to literally say, what you just described.
He is paid, by the owner, to pay his staff as least as possible. listen man, I bent over for you, just to get you this raise

2. Don't stress about "the owner didn't seem happy about this".
The owner, should be happy to paying you this "extra" amount. If you leave, there's a very good chance, his stress will increase, workflow will heavily decrease, your replacement would be starting from scratch. The list is very long.

3. Furthermore to #2. If possible, I would talk to the owner yourself, and see if your managers statement is true.
Because I found out my manager is full of shit, and always says things, to make sure he has the biggest dick in the room, like he is doing everyone a favor, and that he is saving the situation.
I no longer talk to my manager about pay. I talk to the owner.
The owner pays you. Not the manager. yes yes I know not all companies have the opportunity to talk to the owner
Furthermore, my manager is dead to me, he trained me for years, but the stars lined up several times over to reveal his true character. This goes for how some other staff feel about him as well.
I'm on great terms with the owner, also simply because he one of the best bosses I have ever had.

4. If the company is large.... The owner is making BANK.
For him to take out, 10-20k of his gross income, extra to pay you, is pocket change for him.
It will cost him MUCH more than 10-30k to get you replaced.
Staff turn over is very expensive.

Dont ever "I love my job" so I'm ok "with less pay" ever be your motto.

Some owners, prey on employees that love their job.
If you got 20 people at a company, that absolutely love their work, but are underpaid: That's 20 people x 10-20k each/yearly

The owner LOVES the extra 200-400k gross in his bank account.

[donk.]

This isn't a videogame.

I'm esl, leave me alone LOL

But on a side note, man that was a good game.....

[PeanutButter]

Just anecdotal.. the trades were super busy the past year, but work seems to be drying up according to one of my friends who's a developer. He's been getting a lot of calls from past trades looking for work.

Not sure exactly what the market is right now, but maybe see what's out there before you do anything.

[Traum]

I agree 100% with both of these. I don't know how many times I've made them 2-3x what I've asked for in a raise with value engineering, or getting a product changed all with the stroke of a pen. In my brain I'm thinking you're worried about this amount of money but in the grand scheme of this operation it's a nothing burger.

Should that conversation with the owner eventually come, is this something you can bring up in the conversation with him in a nice and non-offending way?

At the end of the day, I'm sure the owner has considered the exact same thing as well, although at a higher level and potentially without actual examples and exact figures. He gave you the offer you are asking for because he deemed having you stay with the company is worth more than losing you to the competition, and I am going to say he made a smart business decision. I can't remember how many times I've seen managers at my previous and current work places lose a staff over wage issues or other work-related demands that I really think are generally quite reasonable. And then when the person leaves, everyone else gets royally screwed because of the amount of knowledge that the person has. FailFish

Here I am, up since 2am, can't sleep feeling sick to my stomach for going out there and fighting for what I'm worth. What's even more fucked up after finally getting it I've never wanted to leave here more than I do I right now. I'm hoping that feeling passes with time but right now I'm feeling pretty terrible.
Why do you feel that way? As I was saying above, the company owner agreed to your wage request because he deemed losing you to the competition will cost him more than paying you the extra amounts that you've asked for. If he is as emotionally smart as he is business savvy, he will just look at it purely as a business decision of costs vs benefits. And that's exactly how you should look at it as well.

There are no hard feelings -- it's all just business. You did good going to bat for yourself.

(And on that note, I would go and do a little something for your manager as well as an appreciative gesture to thank him for having the wage hike discussion with the owner.)

[westopher]

Seems kinda gaslighty.
I can tell you one thing, if I've gotten grief from owners for giving raises, the last thing I'm gonna do is tell my staff the owner didn't want to give it to them, or they put me in a tough spot or whatever. Why would I want to make someone feel like they aren't worth it? That's the worst way to get the best out of somebody.
If I give someone a raise it's "thanks for your hard work, you earned it, and here are the things I want you to continue to improve or focus on for continued growth."
I'm thankful that currently when I dish them out it's met with an understanding from the owner I'm doing what's best for the business in mind, because if your staff aren't treated well you'll be a revolving door.

[dachinesedude]

Who's worked for a publicly-traded company/large corporation and have successfully asked for a 1x pay raise?

[EvoFire]

Who's worked for a publicly-traded company/large corporation and have successfully asked for a 1x pay raise?

30% bump moving to a new company sure. Never seen more than a few % otherwise.

[Spoon]

If you're in a position to ask for stock options, go that route and hope it doubles.

[mikemhg]

In the process of negotiating with a new company I'm moving to.

20% salary increase, but also looking to negotiate a signing bonus (which I've done before).

I'd be leaving my current role Jan 1 2023, meaning I'd lose my bonus for this year, hoping this new company can set me whole (or partially) for that.

[Gumby]

Backstory: I've been in my job for over 19 years so I really know my stuff and have excellent relationships with all of the various people I work with. For the most part, I enjoy my job and I am not looking for other opportunities. Without going into detail about my job, essentially I review/approve applications at one level, then pass it on to a colleague (let's call her "Jane") in another office for review/approval at a higher level. I have been working with her for at least 10+ years.

A few months ago, Jane informed me that she will be retiring in a few months and asked if I would be interested in applying for her job. With my specific skill-set, her job is pretty much the only job I would consider moving to. I have a fairly good understanding of what she does (e.g. I check for ABC, then she checks for XYZ), and I have also worked with many others in her office, so I felt that I would be the perfect candidate for her job. I have never seen a job description where I could do a vast majority of the tasks, with a good idea of how to figure out the other tasks I had less experience with. If I got her job, it would be an immediate 13% increase in salary (gross) and I could foresee myself retiring in that job.

I went ahead, crafted a strong resume, excellent cover letter, and submitted an application. I had 3 top notch references lined up: my boss, a senior level executive, sad to hear that I had applied for another job but also very supportive and offered to be a reference before I even asked; and two others that also do similar work as Jane (so they are familiar with Jane, her office, and know what the position entails), and I have also worked with them for many years so they know me well. When they found out Jane was retiring, they wondered if I would apply for her job.

I got invited for an interview and was told that the panel would be Jane's boss (who I have also known for many years, but work together infrequently), Jane's co-worker (I have exchanged a few emails with before), and Jane herself. So between my interviewers and 2/3 of my references, we ALL know each other.

On the day of the interview, Jane was sick and couldn't make it unfortunately, so it ended up being only her boss and co-worker. I was well-prepared for the interview and none of the questions caught me off guard. I was not nervous, and we almost used up the full 1-hr time slot. I asked the interviewers thoughtful questions. I left the interview confident that I had done my best without any regrets. Later that night, I sent personalized thank you notes to the interviewers. I thought to myself that if I ended up not getting the job, it wouldn't have been because I messed up; they would have selected someone better than me (but I didn't think that would be possible).

Well, on Thursday I was informed that they had selected someone else for the position. I don't think I have ever felt more disappointed. I didn't even get called for a second interview! How on earth did they find someone better suited for the job?

In a way, it's good Jane was not there for the interview because it would make the next remaining few months working with her extremely awkward. It's also going to be weird working with Jane's successor, knowing that I applied for their job (and felt very qualified for), but he/she wouldn't know this. It will be extremely frustrating if this person sucked at the job (e.g. why are you asking me questions that I wouldn't need to ask if I was in your role?).

The last two nights I've been having trouble sleeping because I'm still trying to get over this rejection. I need to focus on the positives: I enjoy my job, I like the people I work with, and I wasn't looking for a change to begin with.

But deep down, I still truly believe that over the last 19 years, I have been training for Jane's job.

[supafamous]

Who's worked for a publicly-traded company/large corporation and have successfully asked for a 1x pay raise?

1x as in double your salary? Nah, won't happen unless they made a huge mistake in levelling you (possible) or you delivered on some huge project that only could do (highly unlikely)

All large companies have well defined salary bands that people slot into and most comp discussions are about where you are in the band - you're negotiating to be moved higher and that band is usually relatively narrow (20% spread max).

If you were a total rock star last year and showed that you're in the wrong level then we're talking a promotion and that's usually a 10-20% bump in comp for a single level promo.

Stock (RSUs) are usually also on a band as well - your level gets a fixed range that either tops you up to a target total comp number or is treated as a "lottery ticket" (rare). Hard to negotiate that in most companies.

OTOH, if they levelled you wrong when they brought you in AND you were a total rock star then you could possibly double your money.

[GLOW]

Backstory...


was the person chosen internal?

i always think anyone has a shot, no matter how likely someone is a slam dunk.

seen too many shockers in selections made so i always advise people to always shoot their shot if they want it. at least you tried and at least you know, and can move on.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Backstory: I've been in my job for over 19 years so I really know my stuff and have excellent relationships with all of the various people I work with. For the most part, I enjoy my job and I am not looking for other opportunities. Without going into detail about my job, essentially I review/approve applications at one level, then pass it on to a colleague (let's call her "Jane") in another office for review/approval at a higher level. I have been working with her for at least 10+ years.

A few months ago, Jane informed me that she will be retiring in a few months and asked if I would be interested in applying for her job. With my specific skill-set, her job is pretty much the only job I would consider moving to. I have a fairly good understanding of what she does (e.g. I check for ABC, then she checks for XYZ), and I have also worked with many others in her office, so I felt that I would be the perfect candidate for her job. I have never seen a job description where I could do a vast majority of the tasks, with a good idea of how to figure out the other tasks I had less experience with. If I got her job, it would be an immediate 13% increase in salary (gross) and I could foresee myself retiring in that job.

I went ahead, crafted a strong resume, excellent cover letter, and submitted an application. I had 3 top notch references lined up: my boss, a senior level executive, sad to hear that I had applied for another job but also very supportive and offered to be a reference before I even asked; and two others that also do similar work as Jane (so they are familiar with Jane, her office, and know what the position entails), and I have also worked with them for many years so they know me well. When they found out Jane was retiring, they wondered if I would apply for her job.

I got invited for an interview and was told that the panel would be Jane's boss (who I have also known for many years, but work together infrequently), Jane's co-worker (I have exchanged a few emails with before), and Jane herself. So between my interviewers and 2/3 of my references, we ALL know each other.

On the day of the interview, Jane was sick and couldn't make it unfortunately, so it ended up being only her boss and co-worker. I was well-prepared for the interview and none of the questions caught me off guard. I was not nervous, and we almost used up the full 1-hr time slot. I asked the interviewers thoughtful questions. I left the interview confident that I had done my best without any regrets. Later that night, I sent personalized thank you notes to the interviewers. I thought to myself that if I ended up not getting the job, it wouldn't have been because I messed up; they would have selected someone better than me (but I didn't think that would be possible).

Well, on Thursday I was informed that they had selected someone else for the position. I don't think I have ever felt more disappointed. I didn't even get called for a second interview! How on earth did they find someone better suited for the job?

In a way, it's good Jane was not there for the interview because it would make the next remaining few months working with her extremely awkward. It's also going to be weird working with Jane's successor, knowing that I applied for their job (and felt very qualified for), but he/she wouldn't know this. It will be extremely frustrating if this person sucked at the job (e.g. why are you asking me questions that I wouldn't need to ask if I was in your role?).

The last two nights I've been having trouble sleeping because I'm still trying to get over this rejection. I need to focus on the positives: I enjoy my job, I like the people I work with, and I wasn't looking for a change to begin with.

But deep down, I still truly believe that over the last 19 years, I have been training for Jane's job.

Hopefully for your sake, the person hired is way more qualified than u and knows what they are doing. Itll take the sting away thats for sure.

[mikemhg]

19 years? Jesus that's a slap in the face.

Like someone else said, did they hire someone internal or external?

Does the role require any relationships outside of your company, or who you know in terms of external clients?

[Gumby]

Let's just say I work for a university so I'm internal to the institution, but not necessarily Jane's office. I thought of others in her office that might want to apply for her job, but I don't think anybody else is qualified for that job.

In fact, one of the interview questions was "have you ever experienced a challenge working with anybody in our office?" and I knew exactly who they were referring to. I smiled at the interviewer and said "I understand why you are asking this question" as in "I know who you're talking about", and applied my prepped answer for the typical challenge/conflict question to this situation. I felt that this question was a telltale sign that they were testing to see if I could handle working in their office, which I thought I nailed.

I don't know who they ended up hiring. I tried asking Jane (which was a mistake and probably put her in a bad spot) but she didn't tell me. Guess I'll find out in a few months.

was the person chosen internal?

i always think anyone has a shot, no matter how likely someone is a slam dunk.

seen too many shockers in selections made so i always advise people to always shoot their shot if they want it. at least you tried and at least you know, and can move on.

Yeah I did my best and don't have any regrets. Also sent another thank you note after the rejection to keep the door open should a similar opportunity come up. But it won't be Jane's job unless it doesn't work out for the replacement...

Hopefully for your sake, the person hired is way more qualified than u and knows what they are doing. Itll take the sting away thats for sure.

In hindsight, there are two preferred qualifications that I don't have: 1) post-graduate degree in a relevant discipline (I can't see how that would affect your ability to do this job) 2) experience in a senior level administrative position (this might be my only weakness, but does 19 years experience working with people at various levels not make up for this?). I'm pretty sure that between my resume, cover letter, and interview, I demonstrated that I have all of the other preferred qualifications.

19 years? Jesus that's a slap in the face.

Like someone else said, did they hire someone internal or external?

Does the role require any relationships outside of your company, or who you know in terms of external clients?
Yes, the role requires relationships with others outside of the university, which I have and did point out during the interview (i.e. you should hire me because I know ABC in my office, DEF in your office, GHI across the university, and XYZ outside of the university, which can only benefit the candidate and your office.)

[Traum]

The thing with colleges and universities is -- even though in most other work places, experience would trump your academic background, the SMT in academic still generally take the alma mater and level of academic education into account. It is just how the game is played, and those things are the currencies that matter.

Your situation reminded me of my own experience of getting turned down for grad school. I had good grades; I had some relevant research experience doing stuff for a prof; I had some strong references from the prof I worked for, as well as from my supervisors. I met up with the prospective prof whom I would have been studying under, and I thought we had a great meeting. I thought I had all my ducks lined up, but at the end of the day, all I got was a pretty standard rejection letter from the grad studies office. At the time, I was young and stupid enough to send a politely written email to check with the prof and to express my disappointment of not getting accepted, but the reply I got was a super generic blurb of how I wasn't quite the right match.

In hindsight, not getting accepted into grad school probably ended up being a good thing. But at the time I was really bummed out.

Keep your head high and keep looking forward. But if I were being honest with myself, I would find ways to deliberately not help the new Jane beyond the minimal amount of professional assistance / collaboration that is required.

[GLOW]

depending on place of work, government/institutional often are like this - that post grad, if on paper it says it's needed, could have played a role.
i'm sure the jobs i applied to at a city where i checked all the boxes for and i didn't even get a call for interview, is because my engineering degree isn't in civil, which is somewhat frustrating

good on you for following up to keep that door open...never know if jane doesn't work out they may give you a 2nd look...

[donk.]

. It will be extremely frustrating if this person sucked at the job (e.g. why are you asking me questions that I wouldn't need to ask if I was in your role?).




Looking forward to an update

[Gumby]

Quick Update: they announced Jane's successor, who comes from another office, but also within the institution. I don't know this individual well, but they went with someone with more experience reviewing applications at that "higher" level than me, but I am definitely more familiar with the "applicants". You could argue which is more valuable, but this person should know their stuff. I'm still super disappointed, but hey, c'est la vie!

Side note: this feels like a breakup; suddenly I am motivated to improve myself! :lol

[GLOW]

at least there's some logic to the choice and they didn't bring in someone's kid or someone one of the bosses is banging

[Mr.Money]

or its good you didn't say fuck you and give a one week notice like a pissy sissy.


stable income>feelings.


there is so much that needs to be paid for in this life.

[AzNightmare]

or its good you didn't say fuck you and give a one week notice like a pissy sissy.


stable income>feelings.


there is so much that needs to be paid for in this life.


I never understood that, or maybe I'm kind of naive. But I read about this so much online about people getting pissed off and storming off. I've been laid off many times before. Recession, departments and roles being slashed, etc. I always left with class. Even stayed until 5pm on my last day wrapping up things and saying goodbye to people. I didn't know I was "supposed to" throw a hissy fit and bolt it at 10am after being notified. lol... :badpokerface:

The only time that I left early was when I was given a box and told to leave immediately with HR shadowing me when I was actually being terminated after 7 years of employment. I still walked by my manager's desk and shook his hand and said "thanks for the opportunity."

[GLOW]

vancouver is a small town, you never want a bad rep or fake bad rep. everyone knows everyone, if not directly a 1 or 2 degrees of separation.

i always try to keep my cool and play it smart, even times when i know it would feel good to go cray cray :lol

[AzNightmare]

Anyone ever felt guilty quitting?

I signed a new offer and will probably drop the news next week.
It's a small team and we just ordered new company jackets 2 weeks ago, and I was even asked to help brainstorm ideas for the design. lol...

I know I'm replaceable (aren't we all?), but like I said, it's a small team. At the moment, I'm the only guy that's specifically hired for that specific task/role/dept,etc.

[Gumby]

If you care for your workplace, then it’s normal to feel guilty for leaving.

But at the same time, I assume you’re leaving for more pay, more opportunities and/or personal growth, and your old boss & coworkers should support that. Shouldn’t sacrifice your own wants/needs for the sake of your workplace.

[winson604]

vancouver is a small town, you never want a bad rep or fake bad rep. everyone knows everyone, if not directly a 1 or 2 degrees of separation.

i always try to keep my cool and play it smart, even times when i know it would feel good to go cray cray :lol

Truth, till this day well over 10 years shit almost 15 later if someone who used to work at eBay applies my boss will still ask me if I knew them lol.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Anyone ever felt guilty quitting?

I signed a new offer and will probably drop the news next week.
It's a small team and we just ordered new company jackets 2 weeks ago, and I was even asked to help brainstorm ideas for the design. lol...

I know I'm replaceable (aren't we all?), but like I said, it's a small team. At the moment, I'm the only guy that's specifically hired for that specific task/role/dept,etc.

ive quit many many jobs, and ive never felt guilty for the company. I only felt bad for the coworkers i forged friendships with and how it impacts them. The one thing i learned from all that quitting is try not to burn any bridges on your way out even if the bosses were complete douchebags.

[donk.]

The one thing i learned from all that quitting is try not to burn any bridges on your way out even if the bosses were complete douchebags.

Unless the job category will not impact your future

I worked at a very poor restaurant for 6 months, San Remo Pizza in poco 10 years ago.

The owners are the definition of garbage. If your shift is 4pm-11pm, but the last pizza delivery is at 10:50pm, and you come back at 11:20 from it, they would not pay any of their drivers for the 20 minutes. Making up whatever excuse they like
If you showed up late, by a minute, the senile old hag would yell at you and jip off 15 minutes pay.
The servers literally got yelled at for making mistakes.
If the owners see food dropped on the ground at back of house, they tell the staff to pick it up and serve it

Anyways, I decided to quit on a Friday night as soon as I showed up, I walked up to the till, took the timesheet card, right infront of the owner, and took a picture of it, then I said I quit.

He asked me why I'm taking a picture, I responded something alone the lines of "because this restaurant is the definition of fraud, and you are likely to rip me off on my pay, I now have proof of what i worked."
Sure enough he responded "I would never do that" I rolled my eyes and walked out

As I walked out through the kitchen, a few jaws were on the floor, a few others followed my move that week

If this was a specialized trade / industry, where word could get around, maybe he would just have 4 flat tires. Since it's a dinky pizza restaurant, opening my mouth felt great after being treated like garbage. The dropped jaws at the back of the house, was icing on the cake

[GLOW]

i've been fairly lucky where i've worked in pretty nice places and worked with great people, so it's not guilt i feel, more sentimental

i always tried to do a proper handover where it was left in the best way possible so i have no guilt and be as professional as possible.

mind you i'm talking about office jobs in my career in a professional setting

[quasi]

Unless the job category will not impact your future

I worked at a very poor restaurant for 6 months, San Remo Pizza in poco 10 years ago.

The owners are the definition of garbage. If your shift is 4pm-11pm, but the last pizza delivery is at 10:50pm, and you come back at 11:20 from it, they would not pay any of their drivers for the 20 minutes. Making up whatever excuse they like
If you showed up late, by a minute, the senile old hag would yell at you and jip off 15 minutes pay.
The servers literally got yelled at for making mistakes.
If the owners see food dropped on the ground at back of house, they tell the staff to pick it up and serve it

Anyways, I decided to quit on a Friday night as soon as I showed up, I walked up to the till, took the timesheet card, right infront of the owner, and took a picture of it, then I said I quit.

He asked me why I'm taking a picture, I responded something alone the lines of "because this restaurant is the definition of fraud, and you are likely to rip me off on my pay, I now have proof of what i worked."
Sure enough he responded "I would never do that" I rolled my eyes and walked out

As I walked out through the kitchen, a few jaws were on the floor, a few others followed my move that week

If this was a specialized trade / industry, where word could get around, maybe he would just have 4 flat tires. Since it's a dinky pizza restaurant, opening my mouth felt great after being treated like garbage. The dropped jaws at the back of the house, was icing on the cake

I'll never forget my friend telling me of his brother quitting his shitty Mcdelivery job. I'm not sure if he was having a bad day or what but they were doing a BBQ in the back of the shop for lunch and he gave the BBQ a Hulk Hogan front kick and knocked it over, threw the middle fingers in the air and was like fuck you guys I'm out of here. I think it's safe to say he didn't use them as a reference.

[bcrdukes]

lol i would have loved to see that from afar :lol

[Gerbs]

What do you guys think is the best way to make an additional $5 -30K a year?

- 2nd Job / Contractor
- Uber Driver
- Churning

[SSM_DC5]

Doing OT

[GLOW]

wut? who gets paid for OT? :law:










:okay:

[bcrdukes]

What do you guys think is the best way to make an additional $5 -30K a year?

- 2nd Job / Contractor
- Uber Driver
- Churning

Move back home

[donk.]

Depending what your income to spend ratio is, sometimes it's way more efficient to simply spend less, than earn more.

I would say this only applies to mid and upper class....

[westopher]

Fuck taking on a second job. Donk gave the right advice. Spend less. Find some free “or entry fee only” hobbies like biking, snowboarding (a pass at seymour is $400) skateboarding, soccer, hiking, etc.
If your job isn’t paying enough to live your lifestyle, cut costs, or get a higher paying job, but don’t add job.

[GS8]

What do you guys think is the best way to shorten my lifespan?

- 2nd Job / Contractor
- Uber Driver
- Churning

Fixed

[RiceIntegraRS]

What do you guys think is the best way to make an additional $5 -30K a year?

- 2nd Job / Contractor
- Uber Driver
- Churning

Find a job that pays u cash so u dont get taxed up the ass for making all that extra income.

[TOS'd]

What do you guys think is the best way to make an additional $5 -30K a year?

- 2nd Job / Contractor
- Uber Driver
- Churning

$5 is $5 :hotbaby:

[EvoFire]

$5 is $3 :hotbaby:

Corrected for you

[sdubfid]

What do you guys think is the best way to make an additional $5 -30K a year?

- 2nd Job / Contractor
- Uber Driver
- Churning

Invest in yourself to increase earning potential. Courses, books, podcasts etc. That’s the permanent solution without being a slave or taking home ketchup packets from McDonald’s.

As an example maybe a first aid ticket is $150. Convince employer to give $1 raise. $2000 per year extra every year from $150 investment.

[AzNightmare]

i've been fairly lucky where i've worked in pretty nice places and worked with great people, so it's not guilt i feel, more sentimental

i always tried to do a proper handover where it was left in the best way possible so i have no guilt and be as professional as possible.

mind you i'm talking about office jobs in my career in a professional setting


Well the guilt is just from knowing you're going to put the team in a hole for a bit. I guess it always depends on the size of the firm, and how saturated the position is. Can someone just take over if they work OT? Is 2 or even 3 weeks going to be enough time to hire someone new? Then the time to train someone to get accustomed to the workflow, obviously that will take time as well.

Simply put, it's not my problem at the end of the day. But the smaller the firm, the tighter the group is, and most likely with the boss as well. And the people I work with are great and I like my boss.

In my case, it's not really burdening my coworkers, more so that they actually need to hire someone new to directly replace me. They recently hired some new staff, and I was hoping they could soften the blow by filling in my role, but their background experience isn't exactly the same as mine, so I can already tell, it's not happening...

As mentioned earlier, I was planning to drop the resignation news this week, but my boss hasn't been around due to meetings and I wanted to tell him directly, not through an email. I'm sure I'm overthinking it, and now I regret not trying harder to just get the news to him. Cause my boss just randomly gave me a call earlier today to also bump my salary just cause it's been a bit long overdue. My reaction must have been so weird.. cause I was more choked than happy, lol.. But fuck.. this timing... thanks, but still going to be making a lot more at the new place, but now quitting will just look like a slap in the face.

:seriously:

[AzNightmare]

wut? who gets paid for OT? :law:










:okay:


Previous firm I worked at had infinite OT... in a sense.
Just put your hours in the timesheet and get paid, no management approval necessary. But it was only 1x pay all the way. (Not sure if that was even legal??)

It was addictive like a drug, especially for people in their 20's or 30's who needed the money and didn't have family commitments. Just grinded out 45-50 hrs a week and get paid. It didn't even seem that hard afterawhile cause you just see everybody else still in the office at 7pm. It became the norm and it felt awkward to walk out at 5pm when everyone else was still there. People became workaholics without even knowing it.

I felt like I had "PTSD" for a while after I left. My new jobs only gave me 37.5 or 40hrs a week, and I constantly felt like I wanted to do another 5-10 hrs a week cause I didn't feel like I was getting enough money.

[Traum]

Previous firm I worked at had infinite OT... in a sense.
Just put your hours in the timesheet and get paid, no management approval necessary. But it was only 1x pay all the way. (Not sure if that was even legal??)
This is absolutely illegal, and I am surprised nobody called out the employer for doing this:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/igm/esa-part-4-section-35
35. (1) An employer must pay an employee overtime wages in accordance with section 40 if the employer requires, or directly or indirectly allows, the employee to work more than 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply for the purposes of an employee who is working under an averaging agreement under section 37.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/igm/esa-part-4-section-40
40. (1) An employer must pay an employee who works over 8 hours a day, and is not working under an averaging agreement under section 37,

(a) 1 1/2 times the employee's regular wage for the time over 8 hours, and

(b) double the employee's regular wage for any time over 12 hours.

[GLOW]

Well the guilt is just from knowing you're going to put the team in a hole for a bit. I guess it always depends on the size of the firm, and how saturated the position is.


i hear you, when i took a promotion my old coworker who helped me a lot took on a whole lot more work in my absence (even though there was a backfill as I made it a point to take on half of a certain responsibility so he doesn't get dumped on) so i felt guilty leaving him, but at the same time i looked at it as a dept issue, i suggested how to fix it, but his dept managers i don't think are changing his work environment, so i don't think it would have mattered, 1 suffer or 2 FeelsBadMan

it sort of is what it is and work life moves on is how i see it

[BIC_BAWS]

This is absolutely illegal, and I am surprised nobody called out the employer for doing this:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/igm/esa-part-4-section-35


https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/forms-resources/igm/esa-part-4-section-40

LOL my employer takes it one step further. We got forced to take it as banked hours. When we do OT now it's 1x rate AND it gets banked.

But what am I gonna do? Report them? Sue them? I kinda need the job to pay for my mortgage lol. Pretty much just bend over and take it.

[smoothie.]

LOL my employer takes it one step further. We got forced to take it as banked hours. When we do OT now it's 1x rate AND it gets banked.

But what am I gonna do? Report them? Sue them? I kinda need the job to pay for my mortgage lol. Pretty much just bend over and take it.

are you working for scumbag IT?

Exclusions, High Technology Companies - Regulation Part 7, Section 37.8 was a big fuck you, so I left my old job, and then everyone else followed :fullofwin:

[Tapioca]

I'm surprised we're even talking about OT.

Most professional, white collar jobs are salaried. 50-60 hour weeks are not uncommon for many. Emails into the late hours of the evening are pretty standard.

My thought is that a combination of churning and volunteer work with respected community organizations (i.e. getting on boards) can help you increase your earnings.

[SSM_DC5]

I didn't know volunteering paid money

[donk.]

Anyone here on salary?

Care to chime in on the 40hr or 60hr work weeks as mentioned above?

[rb]

I was on salary. On-call 24/7 for emergencies and 50-60hr work weeks were the norm which is probably why my health is fucked up today

[westopher]

Anyone here on salary?

Care to chime in on the 40hr or 60hr work weeks as mentioned above?
Salary here. Sometimes I work 60 hour weeks, sometimes I work 20 hour weeks.
At a certain point you need to be responsible for your own workaholism, address the fact you can't make things work under a 40 hour work week and either demand the tools you need to make it work, or leave. Unless you truly get paid well enough you believe massive work weeks are reasonable. Lots of places across all industries will take advantage of peoples drive and dangle the carrot. As you get older it becomes pretty easy to figure it out though.

[Tapioca]

I didn't know volunteering paid money

It doesn't, but it broadens your network which looks good on the resume or can get your foot in the door for future opportunities.

[AzNightmare]

I couldn't imagine working salary and not getting paid for all the hours worked. I have a white collar office job that pays hourly (need to fill in a timesheet) and honestly when the day is slow, I'm not working very hard regardless or just killing time chatting with coworkers.

I guess the perk is salaried staff get to go home early, while hourly rate staff need to hang around the office and pretend to be working. My 37.5 hrs of pay per week is guaranteed regardless. OT is just bonus on top. But "flex" hours seem pretty common in my industry, it almost seems like it's just a better deal to be on hourly rate so that you have the option to get paid OT if you're going to get slammed with work.

[AzNightmare]

This is a weird one..

But I already accepted a new job about a month ago, but haven't started yet. Another firm has recently shown interest in me, despite me being honest and telling them I already accepted an offer elsewhere. They're trying to sell themselves hard, the HR suggested before I start at my new job, visit them first and get an office walkthrough to learn more about them.

Is there a point? I'm not sure if this is a way to suck me in and throw an impromptu interview or something...

I would seriously consider this place in the future, but the timing just didn't work out. I don't want to burn any bridges but as of now, especially with a signed offer already worked out at another firm, there's pretty much 0% chance I'll change my mind to work here.

[EvoFire]

Politely decline and tell them you don't want to waste their time because you want to honour your commitment to the current signed offer.

If they insist on bringing you in and they said don't worry about it, go anyways. It's always good to create some connections and make a good impression. You may never know if that will come in handy. Also you seem confident in the current place but you might start and learn that it's not the right place for you.

[Gerbs]

If I had no ties to the new company aside from accepted offer, I'd entertain the 2nd offer. Sounds like they'd beat the offer.