[Gerbs]

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-CA/emira

Curious what everyone's thoughts on this car? Seems like the best value at the $105 - 120K price range for a 6 speed sports car with warranty in the modern market.

My friend said he's on the waitlist and it's 2 years wait at the moment. Any other cars you guys would get in this range?

[bcrdukes]

Are we comparing apples to apples (electric to electric) here or against ICE cars? [Edit: I stand corrected - the Emira is NOT the electric car I was thinking about]

Highly recommend getting the vehicle tracker. I'd hate for anyone to have the car stolen and sold in Dubai. (https://www.carscoops.com/2023/01/was-this-400000-porsche-911-gt3-rs-for-sale-in-dubai-stolen-in-canada-last-year/)

[Badhobz]

I love the looks, but im worried about a few things with it.

1) reliability is always questionable with Lotus. Even if they plug in toyota engines, there's electronic crap that goes wrong, build quality is worrying and the overall longevity isnt great.

2) i got a feeling lotus might pull out of the NA market given how low volumes and exchange rate isnt in their favor. They arent rich by any means so i dont know how long they can weather this storm. if and when they depart, GG to all the owners holding the bag.

3) performance is meh. 4.2/4.3 0-60 is okay, but this is suppose to be a true sports car and if youre paying base 911 money, it doesnt seem ultra competitive vs the 911.

[bomberR17]

Are we comparing apples to apples (electric to electric) here or against ICE cars?

Highly recommend getting the vehicle tracker. I'd hate for anyone to have the car stolen and sold in Dubai. (https://www.carscoops.com/2023/01/was-this-400000-porsche-911-gt3-rs-for-sale-in-dubai-stolen-in-canada-last-year/)

The Emira is not an electric car. Has a supercharged V6 or turbo I4. Surprised they didn't put a hybrid system in.

[Traum]

The Cayman GTS 4.0 would be the natural direct competitor against the Emira in every regard -- MR, similar weight, similar hp/tq.

I would pick the Porsche over the Lotus all day, everyday because I am a Porsche fanboi, and I trust that the Porsche would be more solidly built. But the Emira is certainly the more eye-catching car.

What I am not sure is -- which engine would be the more enjoyable one to pick? On paper, the Toyota V6 is a touch faster, and I am going to guess/bet that it will also be the more reliable engine. But of course the AMG 4-banger is very attractive too, at least in terms of output.
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-CA/emira

Curious what everyone's thoughts on this car? Seems like the best value at the $105 - 120K price range for a 6 speed sports car with warranty in the modern market.

My friend said he's on the waitlist and it's 2 years wait at the moment. Any other cars you guys would get in this range?

[dark0821]

But thats the thing...

A brand new customer can walk in Lotus to spec the car.

A brand new customer can walk in Porsche and told to GTFO if you wanna order a base 911...

[dark0821]

But of course the AMG 4-banger is very attractive too, at least in terms of output.

I thought the AMG is paddle only... and the V6 is the only one with the manual option or am i smoking something good.

[68style]

I think I'd rather spend $150k or so on a used NSX that's much faster than $120k + whatever on a brand new Lotus that's slower and way less reliable.

Or get a 911.

[bcrdukes]

The Emira is not an electric car. Has a supercharged V6 or turbo I4. Surprised they didn't put a hybrid system in.

I stand corrected. Thank you. I confused this with their electric offering.

[Traum]

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.
But thats the thing...

A brand new customer can walk in Lotus to spec the car.

A brand new customer can walk in Porsche and told to GTFO if you wanna order a base 911...

[Badhobz]

ive been eyeing that porsche monthly rental program. its not that expensive, and it makes a lot of sense to pay 3-4k a month for 2-3 months out of the year when you actually have good driving weather. Plus they take care of all the maintenance and crap, you just gotta pay for gas.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/accessoriesandservices/porschedrive/rental/

I was going to borrow a 911 and take it down to california along highway 1 instead of beating up my own ratrolla this summer.

[supafamous]

The Cayman GTS 4.0 would be the natural direct competitor against the Emira in every regard -- MR, similar weight, similar hp/tq.

I would pick the Porsche over the Lotus all day, everyday because I am a Porsche fanboi, and I trust that the Porsche would be more solidly built. But the Emira is certainly the more eye-catching car.

What I am not sure is -- which engine would be the more enjoyable one to pick? On paper, the Toyota V6 is a touch faster, and I am going to guess/bet that it will also be the more reliable engine. But of course the AMG 4-banger is very attractive too, at least in terms of output.

Only the V6 has the manual so that would be the decider for me but, like you said, this competes with a 718 GTS and the 718 GTS is an incredible car and Lotus can't really compete against the budget that went into a 718. There might be a couple niches where the Lotus is better (better looks for example) or more suited to a particular buyer but why get this over a 718 GTS? (I wouldn't kick it out of bed though).

[donk.]

I think I can't afford it

[Gerbs]

3) performance is meh. 4.2/4.3 0-60 is okay, but this is suppose to be a true sports car and if youre paying base 911 money, it doesnt seem ultra competitive vs the 911.


Isn’t a base 911 close to $130ish before any options?

[whitev70r]

ive been eyeing that porsche monthly rental program. its not that expensive, and it makes a lot of sense to pay 3-4k a month for 2-3 months out of the year when you actually have good driving weather. Plus they take care of all the maintenance and crap, you just gotta pay for gas.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/accessoriesandservices/porschedrive/rental/

I was going to borrow a 911 and take it down to california along highway 1 instead of beating up my own ratrolla this summer.

This is what I was going to say, even if I had $150K laying around, not sure if I would buy one or invest in a supercar. Exactly this, @$3-4K a month in the summer, (which is when you would drive your supercar anyhow), that $140K left over can go a long way! And the highlighted/bold part up top ^

[Badhobz]

Yup totally.

10k a year and you can get it for a few good months without worrying about depreciation. If you get this instead of buying a 150k car, that’s over 10 years of enjoyment. 150k car after 10 years is basically worthless anyways unless it magically becomes a collector car. Most cars won’t see that kind of return. And you have the flexibility of trying different rides. Want a vert ? Go for it. Want a coupe to track day ? Sure. Want to go out on a nice evening with a luxurious taycan?

I can’t believe this program exists. If they had it in Vancouver earlier i wouldn’t even bother buying the ratrolla.

[supafamous]

This is what I was going to say, even if I had $150K laying around, not sure if I would buy one or invest in a supercar. Exactly this, @$3-4K a month in the summer, (which is when you would drive your supercar anyhow), that $140K left over can go a long way! And the highlighted/bold part up top ^

Luxury taxes after the price hits $125k starts getting absurd too - the Boxster GTS 4.0 that I put a deposit on has almost $40k of taxes on it and I was at $129k pre-taxes ($173k total). If I drop the PDK (which I would) and get under $125k then I think I save about $10k in taxes.

[donk.]

Yup totally.

10k a year and you can get it for a few good months without worrying about depreciation. If you get this instead of buying a 150k car, that’s over 10 years of enjoyment. 150k car after 10 years is basically worthless anyways unless it magically becomes a collector car. Most cars won’t see that kind of return. And you have the flexibility of trying different rides. Want a vert ? Go for it. Want a coupe to track day ? Sure. Want to go out on a nice evening with a luxurious taycan?

I can’t believe this program exists. If they had it in Vancouver earlier i wouldn’t even bother buying the ratrolla.

I don't know about that, literally any Lotus bought in the last 30 years has stayed flat in value, or doubled, even after adding 20-100kms to them. Look at the Elise or esprit.

Rare sports cars are almost never a bad buy, and lotus has that title for almost all of their cars due to limited availability.

It's not a 911, mustang, or Corvette that thousands on thousands are pumped out for sale

[Badhobz]

I guess so. I don’t see too many on the road anymore so I thought they all blew up. I mean theoretically buying a 911 isn’t a bad idea either. 10 years you shouldn’t lose too much either.

Ah who knows. But it’s better to have options.

[Badhobz]

Luxury taxes after the price hits $125k starts getting absurd too - the Boxster GTS 4.0 that I put a deposit on has almost $40k of taxes on it and I was at $129k pre-taxes ($173k total). If I drop the PDK (which I would) and get under $125k then I think I save about $10k in taxes.

I tried everything to weasel out of the higher tax when I bought last year. but they wouldn’t let me. I told them to discount the car (not unheard of before pandemic) and then id give them the difference but nope. No can do.

Luckily I bought in before the federal tax on luxury cars were implemented. It’s even worse right now with the gst at 10%.

[tofu1413]

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.

nope.

they won't take your factory order unless it has "$XXXX" worth of options.

[bcrdukes]

Lotus values have remained flat over the years. Yes, certain models are prone to huge depreciation, but the recent models like a Elise/Elise S, Exige etc. have been immune to depreciation for a variety of reasons. If you are passionate about the car and the brand, Lotus is one to pick up. They have their odd quirks and oddities, but you learn to live with them. At least the IMS bearing doesn't explode?

[Gerbs]

ive been eyeing that porsche monthly rental program. its not that expensive, and it makes a lot of sense to pay 3-4k a month for 2-3 months out of the year when you actually have good driving weather. Plus they take care of all the maintenance and crap, you just gotta pay for gas.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/accessoriesandservices/porschedrive/rental/

I was going to borrow a 911 and take it down to california along highway 1 instead of beating up my own ratrolla this summer.

I'm priced at $539/Day x 3 Days = $1,617 a weekend x 12 weeks? = $19,404 for 12 weekend a year, seems cheaper to buy new. I don't think a 2023 911 will drop $100K in depreciation + warranty over 5 years. I think the rental program prohibits you from track days, but that only matters if you crash or get hit by a 3rd party lol.

Overall, the math still adds up to me that it's a lower cost of ownership if you can get an allocation to a non-generic sports car. The sports car market is fucked lol

nope.

they won't take your factory order unless it has "$XXXX" worth of options.

You have to know somebody or offer something back aka an allocation of a car at your dealer, luxury watch, or some proposition to basically get it without options because they know you're walking out +10 - 20K+ in equity.

[dark0821]

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.

First hand experience... pre-pandemic (no I can't afford one) but I wanted to see how far away a M5 Competition was from a base 911, since on paper they are pretty similar for MSRP.

I was very politely asked if I was an existing P-car owner, or their customer. I said no, and was told that he will be happy to show me a few used 911 that was selling 20K over MSRP (I mean maybe they were fairly priced, but all the used ones had like weird options like stitched crest head rest and shit that just jacked the price up), otherwise I can start with a Macan or a Cayenne and he said he will be delighted to take a factory order 911 carrera or carrera S when the time come to upgrade.

So... yea... that was my own experience at Porsche Vancouver

The experience was so bad that the sales didnt even offer me his business card, I had to ask for it... I guess it just shows I am the poor mofo that is not their target market for 911s

[tofu1413]

^ Under the desk handy's basically :ifyouknow:

the demand is stronger than what the manufacturer can give them, so they need to maximize profit per unit.

This goes heavily on the Limited cars.

I get customers that order something limited (per say, LT cars) I tell them it has to be a decently good spec with some options, we are only get 7 (for example) for this whole store / run. We will prioritize the heavier spec cars and to people that are more into driving them than for speculation.

[JoshuaWong]

love the looks and packaging, as well as the interior design/set up. its kinda what every car guy in 2023 would be happy with especially the price point...

but its the typical british/lotus issue that worries me, but its enough to draw people into the showroom, me included.

Heard theres 150+ on the waitlist right now. 80% + are going with the v6 so far

[supafamous]

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.

I was politely told that there was no point in me putting a deposit down for a lower trim 718 or a base 911 (even a S was a stretch) and that if I even want a slim shot that I had to load up a 718 GTS with a lot of options because I have no prior relationship nor a trade. I didn't have to actually buy all the options if I were picked but there was no chance for me if I tried to order a stripper GTS.

I assume if you had a prior relationship or a trade then a lower trim might be possible on a 911 but probably not a 718 unless you are a superstar customer.

[Badhobz]

I'm priced at $539/Day x 3 Days = $1,617 a weekend x 12 weeks? = $19,404 for 12 weekend a year, seems cheaper to buy new. I don't think a 2023 911 will drop $100K in depreciation + warranty over 5 years. I think the rental program prohibits you from track days, but that only matters if you crash or get hit by a 3rd party lol.

Overall, the math still adds up to me that it's a lower cost of ownership if you can get an allocation to a non-generic sports car. The sports car market is fucked lol

yeh it is.

So i was doing this math = 911 x 7 days a month (469x7) = $3,283
at its most expensive. I might not want to drive a 911 for more than 7 days a month and might want to swap it to a 718 next month or whatever. The freedom of choice is good.

7 days out of 31 is good enough for somebody like me. Id take that 7 days as a vacation and just go drive the piss out of it to banff, or california.

Flip the coin and do a lease on a 911. youre looking at 0 down and over 2500 a month but you gotta fork that money out even in nov, dec, jan, feb, and all the shit months that you dont really drive it. The months that you do drive it, you would probably try to maximize your experience but on the other hand, you want to preserve the car since its your own car and you wont drive it balls to the wall. So it makes sense for a dude like me who just takes it out on weekends for ha ha's, it might not make a lot of sense if you want to daily a 150k car.

[Gerbs]

Ahh, I was thinking more like driving it as a daily all throughout summer. Even then mainly for leisure.

But can't afford it, maybe in 5 years!

[Badhobz]

I was politely told that there was no point in me putting a deposit down for a lower trim 718 or a base 911 (even a S was a stretch) and that if I even want a slim shot that I had to load up a 718 GTS with a lot of options because I have no prior relationship nor a trade. I didn't have to actually buy all the options if I were picked but there was no chance for me if I tried to order a stripper GTS.

I assume if you had a prior relationship or a trade then a lower trim might be possible on a 911 but probably not a 718 unless you are a superstar customer.

Ive said this before on other threads, but i dont know why you guys bother with our dealer network. Buying straight from Germany isnt that difficult and they dont play these stupid ass games. You want a 911? you pay the money, you wait in line and you get it.

https://germansuperfast.com/buying-a-car-in-germany-for-export/#:~:text=Needed%20documents%20for%20buying%20a%20c ar%20in%20Germany%20for%20export&text=The%20only%20thing%20you%20need,car%20from%20 a%20car%20dealership.

[whitev70r]

so one strategy might be to buy a < $10K 2000 gen Boxster ... at least you have something to trade in at the Porsche dealer to order a 718 or 911 :lol?

[Dbone]

I'd love to get an Emira. I'm happy with the Exige but it's hardcore enough that I know one day I'll just want something a little softer.

My Lotus is easy enough to work on. I'm no mechanic but even I can change things like injector rings, and wire in electrics (like those stupid side markers I had to add). Fluid changes are easy, and once you know how to get all the various access panels off it's really not hard to get to places.

The exchange rate from the UK to NA is very good right now historically speaking. I don't see why Lotus would pull out.

The Lotus dealer in Vancouver has insane prices though. No way I'd buy parts from them... or used cars. At least the engine parts are in stock at my local Toyota dealer.

They've been running the Toyota V6 for years now. I don't expect people will have any issues at with them.

[EvoFire]

Ive said this before on other threads, but i dont know why you guys bother with our dealer network. Buying straight from Germany isnt that difficult and they dont play these stupid ass games. You want a 911? you pay the money, you wait in line and you get it.

https://germansuperfast.com/buying-a-car-in-germany-for-export/#:~:text=Needed%20documents%20for%20buying%20a%20c ar%20in%20Germany%20for%20export&text=The%20only%20thing%20you%20need,car%20from%20 a%20car%20dealership.

I'm not sure Canadian customs will let you import a gray market vehicle that's less than 15 years old.

[Gerbs]

Ive said this before on other threads, but i dont know why you guys bother with our dealer network. Buying straight from Germany isnt that difficult and they dont play these stupid ass games. You want a 911? you pay the money, you wait in line and you get it.

https://germansuperfast.com/buying-a-car-in-germany-for-export/#:~:text=Needed%20documents%20for%20buying%20a%20c ar%20in%20Germany%20for%20export&text=The%20only%20thing%20you%20need,car%20from%20 a%20car%20dealership.

What about euro delivery? Could you order any 911 / Boxster / Cayman pretty quickly with that?

[Gerbs]

so one strategy might be to buy a < $10K 2000 gen Boxster ... at least you have something to trade in at the Porsche dealer to order a 718 or 911 :lol?

I mean the trade-in in my eyes their way of getting you to pay the mark-up via trade-in rather than a raw dollar price.

[Badhobz]

I'm not sure Canadian customs will let you import a gray market vehicle that's less than 15 years old.

its the same as European delivery. Its not a gray market import. You do pay the taxes when it arrives, but youre just importing your own property.

What about euro delivery? Could you order any 911 / Boxster / Cayman pretty quickly with that?

That i dont know, i believe that has to be initiated with the dealer in Germany or here.

So this whole thing started when i was in germany and i went to check out cars. I ended up just renting since work covers it, but i thought about buying and then bringing something fun back home (Golf R wagon). I talked to the dealers and it's easy enough to do, you just do the importation paperwork. But when it arrives in canada, you need to make it road legal like any other car. eruhh not make it road legal, it has to be built to be road legal in canada (so request a Canadian spec car from the factory but take delivery in Germany.. ie european delivery).

"Determine if the vehicle you plan to bring from Germany into Canada bears a statement of compliance label from the original manufacturer proving that the car is designed, tested and certified to meet the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards or the United States Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Such cars can usually be found in areas where Canadian or American Forces are stationed in Germany. If you purchased a used car equipped with such a label and the car was built in the same calender year you are planning to ship it from Germany to Canada, you may import the vehicle into Canada and circumvent the 15-year-age rule. The same applies for vehicles with such a label if you received it as a gift from a friend or relative no later than one year after manufacture. You may then bring the vehicle from Germany into Canada, if you can prove by way of a certified document signed by both parties that the vehicle was indeed given to the owner as a gift."

https://app.borderbuddy.com/calculator2/public/quota?gclid=Cj0KCQiAiJSeBhCCARIsAHnAzT-8vkJd4RY3wvnG1wJp_JNONE4C81-dpw9p2DqWLSgwaaok17vTFCsaAow0EALw_wcB&importtype=vehicle

Taxes on a 110,000 dollar vehicle is about 20k.

[donk.]

I remember looking at importing an Elise years back, I don't recall the reason, but it simply was not possible unless it was 15 years+. At the time, most of them were gen 1, and I was looking for a gen 2, but that would make them all newer than 15 years.

The lotus forum said the same thing, their quote was "you gotta pay to play"

Dealerships would not be happy if the average joe can buy a newer Honda civic for cheaper from another country

[Badhobz]

i think its do-able. At least all signs point to yes in ze Deutschland.. if you can get their dealerships to arrange with the factory for a Canadian spec car built and delivered in Germany.

I will investigate some more with the PORSCHAAAHHHH dealers next time im back there (sometime Q1-Q2 this year). If this works, i might start a business doing it, and then ill be assassinated by Dilwari and Openroad group for stealing their racket.

[Gerbs]

You'd print $$$ if you can do GT cars. Which is why I think it would've been done and monetized locally if you could.

[Badhobz]

The problem is you still gotta get in line. Ordering one in Germany doesn't mean you'll necessarily get it faster, you just don't have to buy a buttfuck macan and a stupid cayenne before they even let you see the GT order list.

[Gerbs]

If we could get in line for 1x a year, we could flip for $100 - 150K per GT3 :ilied:

[Dbone]

If you're coming from Europe it has to be 15 years old, unless it's brand new made for the Canadian market and part of a factory delivery program. You can't just buy a car off a lot, or privately and import it.

Otherwise, I believe if you're immigrating to Canada you can do a one time import (at least this was the case 12 years ago).

Of course importing from the US is different.

[The Producer]

I remember looking at importing an Elise years back, I don't recall the reason, but it simply was not possible unless it was 15 years+. At the time, most of them were gen 1, and I was looking for a gen 2, but that would make them all newer than 15 years.

The lotus forum said the same thing, their quote was "you gotta pay to play"

Dealerships would not be happy if the average joe can buy a newer Honda civic for cheaper from another country

preventing a gray market is literally why we have the 15 year import rule (25 in the US)

Love the look of the Emira.

Harry Metcalfe is loving his. There have been several videos leading up to, and receiving his new car. Then he immediately takes it through europe to learn what it's like to live with. I love this stuff - no press car BS, his own true ownership experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J1ZnQ1J8TI&t=3s

[EvoFire]

its the same as European delivery. Its not a gray market import. You do pay the taxes when it arrives, but youre just importing your own property.



Here's where I don't understand. I doubt a German dealer can sell you a CADM spec vehicle. There's contracts in place with localized dealers that prevent that.

If it's not CADM then you can't import it as Canada customs won't let you bring it in and register it. A non CADM vehicle being imported to Canada would be gray market. That has to be 15+ years old.

It is different from European Delivery because with ED you order the car here and it's CADM spec, they just have contracts in place for you to take delivery in Europe and they have rules in place to allow you to drive it in Europe. Any European Delivery car MUST leave Europe within 6 months. It's why you get a red plate instead of the regular blue one.

I did ED on my M3, it's no different from any other Canadian vehicle, and actually they have hacks in place to make the nav work over there. There are rules they make clear on delivery of the car at the Welt.

[AzNightmare]

specs are kind of underwhelming relatively for how it looks...
It's like the slowest supercar-looking car of modern times.

You'll definitely turn heads with it though.

[hud 91gt]

I’m talking out of my ass as I’ve never driven, nor sat in any super car. But the overwhelming opinion is it’s slow? How much power do you need? It’s still 400ho in a light chassis with a Lotus driving experience??? Seems like plenty to me! But I’ve never been a magazine racer. Lol

[dark0821]

^ That's the thing, you are after the driving dynamics. And hopefully normal gearing that the first gear doesnt get you to like 80kph (looking at your Porsche)....

Like I mentioned in the other thread, old enough now that I am not all about that speed anymore... 400hp is plenty to have fun with

But yes... 150kish out the door for speed wise
- straight line = tesla
- everything else = R35

^strictly unmodified stock cars that has full warranty and readily available (otherwise the Z06 will be on that list)

[EvoFire]

150k buys some nutty machines with a ton of power, so yes magazine racing at it's best.

150k will buy you a M3/4/5, C/E63, RS6 which are all sub 4 second cars and can hang with the best of them because of just clubbing physics to a pulp with turbos and giant tires.

But 400hp in a 3000lb chassis is also quite amazing in considering that, my 444hp in a 3600lb chassis feels way more than fast enough, and my 285 wide tires aren't big enough to put the power down. The person that buys the Emira isn't going to be the same person that buys a Huracan(also not in the same price bracket anyways).
This is more like a big Lotus where there aren't a whole lot of contemporaries. The closest you can get is probably the Cayman GTS on the high end, and the Alpine 110 on the low end.

[Gerbs]

Anyone know if you can test drive all the Cayman's? Or does Porsche tell you to gtfo as well lol.

[Badhobz]

Anyone know if you can test drive all the Cayman's? Or does Porsche tell you to gtfo as well lol.

They should let you test a used one. Just don't show up with a ratrolla CE

[underscore]

I’m talking out of my ass as I’ve never driven, nor sat in any super car. But the overwhelming opinion is it’s slow? How much power do you need? It’s still 400ho in a light chassis with a Lotus driving experience??? Seems like plenty to me! But I’ve never been a magazine racer. Lol

I've only been in a Huracan and a 488 GTB to drive them for a couple laps around a track but to me the straight line speed was the least exciting aspect of it. And you definitely can't properly use that kind of power on the street. 400hp is going to be plenty of fun in that thing.

[Traum]

I’m talking out of my ass as I’ve never driven, nor sat in any super car. But the overwhelming opinion is it’s slow? How much power do you need? It’s still 400ho in a light chassis with a Lotus driving experience??? Seems like plenty to me! But I’ve never been a magazine racer. Lol
Anyone who thinks the Emira or anything like it is slow has no realistic idea of what they are talking about -- or in your words -- they are magazine racing. The car is already effortlessly fast. And supposedly, handling and the overall driving experience should be the Emira's forte, not outright maddening speed.

Mind you, the Emira is supposed to be in the 3500 lbs range, and that is actually a good bit heavier than the Cayman GTS 4.0. (I think the Cayman GTS 4.0 is in the 3100 lbs range.)

Anyone know if you can test drive all the Cayman's? Or does Porsche tell you to gtfo as well lol.
Back in 2021, I was actually able to book some Boxster / Cayman test drives in the pre-owned department with both Porsche Vancouver and Porsche Langley. The problem at the time was -- even the dealerships didn't have any used Cayman/Boxster in stock. I think their used inventory is a lot more plentiful now, even though their new car allocations are a lot more difficult to come by.

IMO, the main issue with being able to secure a test drive is your need to show legitimate interest (in buying). As much as I enjoy test driving different cars, I no longer think it is worth my time (or the sale person's time) if I have no interest in actually buying the car. If you just want to try the car out without any intent to buy, there are lots of other avenues where this could be done.

[JDMDreams]

Cough C8 cough:accepted:

[Hondaracer]

It’s fast like a miata is fast.

Lol saying it’s “fast” because of the handling characteristics and then saying hundreds of more horsepower potential can never be realized on the streets? I’d say you’re far more likely to say the 700hp car is fast than a car that can weave through the mountains and have you say “oh actually this is fast” lol

400HP is not a fast car and for the price, this is an incredibly niche market. The modern day Prowler? Lol

Paying this much for this car you’re getting like, the worst of multiple facets of an automobile

[Gerbs]

It’s fast like a miata is fast.

400HP is not a fast car and for the price, this is an incredibly niche market. The modern day Prowler? Lol

Paying this much for this car you’re getting like, the worst of multiple facets of an automobile

What do you daily/drive on weekends? Or fastest cars you've driven?

I feel like "fast enough" is so subjective to the persons access to hp. My friends who daily 380-450hp cars find it fast, but not exciting anymore by the speed. They hardly step on it. Those who have AMGs or work at a dealership isn't excited by anything sub 500-600hp lol.

My fast is anything 400hp+ cause I haven't really driven anything fast yet, I refuse to drive anything faster than I can afford lol.

[Hondaracer]

Daily drive G37x

Fastest cars - Aventador, 488, GT3, Taycan, C6 z06, GTR

Some on a track some on the streets. Aventador is a bus, feels so heavy it feels slow even with 700+ but some cars like the GT3, z06 etc. feel bordering on out of control they feel so fast

[Gerbs]

The G37x was fast af back in the day and still fast imo now lol. I think once people drive the GT3 / Z06, everything else becomes back to slow. Note to self, never drive them or sit in them. :ilied:

[EvoFire]

The G37x was fast af back in the day and still fast imo now lol. I think once people drive the GT3 / Z06, everything else becomes back to slow. Note to self, never drive them or sit in them. :ilied:

You get used to the power. I thought 444hp was fast af back in the day. Now I'm just used to it. It's still more than fast enough but it doesn't "thrill" like it used to.

[Hondaracer]

G37 feels faster than a 300hp car imo. The gearing def makes it feel a bit sportier than comparable vehicles, if it was a bit lighter would feel much more agile

But yea it’s like anything, you get used to it overtime and it becomes the norm. The aforementioned vehicles I mentioned though, especially the GT3, I only drove it for an incredibly short time but I don’t think there would ever be a time where it wouldn’t feel like a race car

[EvoFire]

G37 feels faster than a 300hp car imo. The gearing def makes it feel a bit sportier than comparable vehicles, if it was a bit lighter would feel much more agile

But yea it’s like anything, you get used to it overtime and it becomes the norm. The aforementioned vehicles I mentioned though, especially the GT3, I only drove it for an incredibly short time but I don’t think there would ever be a time where it wouldn’t feel like a race car

Until you drive the GT3 everyday to and fro work :spamarama:

[Manic!]

14 HP less but 100KG less in weight compared to a V8 R8 seems good to me. Also comes in a manual.

[supafamous]

Anyone know if you can test drive all the Cayman's? Or does Porsche tell you to gtfo as well lol.

The Sales Manager at Porsche Vancouver told me in Oct that test drivers are just a drive around the block for their cars now - even the used ones. I think he meant for folks who had already driven a version of that car already since this was after I returned my rental Boxster as I wanted to try a manual 718. I imagine if you're a first time driver and you're genuinely interested that they'd let you drive to Science World and back. Ha. For what it's worth I was introduced to the GM by a friend of mine who's good friends with the GM and who has referred business to them - that didn't get me any further up the line, I'm still an ankle biter to them.

[tofu1413]

400hp with around 3000lb is very good power to weight ratio and I feel is sufficient for a street car. More than enough speed and fun for the masses.

600 with 3000lb is like a dream. Just the right amount where it’s crazy quick get you can still reel it back in (on sticky rubber of course like Cup2)

700s with 3000 or so + is just insane. Too much car going on for the street.

Cars for reference: GT3, GT4, GT3RS, 675LT, 600LT, 720S, 765LT, 488GTB, 458, F12, MP4-12C, R8 V10 plus, Huracan, Gallardo Superlggera , Alfa 4C, TT-RS, Nissan GT-R (stock tune) , GT-R (1200+WHP build) …. What else….

Emira is the last of the breed: lighter weight, 3 pedals and a manual box, so last of the non hybrid electric offering available today, so jump on one if you can!

[teggy604]

Damn, you guys need 400hp for the street? How fast you guys drive? Are you guys taking corners at like 200km/h? Lol.

[Hondaracer]

I think at some point you expect a min HP for a cost, or even a badge

Who would buy an M3 with 250HP

[Manic!]

I think at some point you expect a min HP for a cost, or even a badge

Who would buy an M3 with 250HP

HP is only a dick measuring contest. actual performance is what matters. The Ariel Atom starts at 80k US and has only 320 HP.

[yray]

anyone have an amex black card can try this ?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnjZGKXgjle/?igshid=NTdlMDg3MTY=

[Badhobz]

you cant do shit with a CC, they only charge 1k on it. bastards. it used to be 5k, now they only take 1k.

[The Producer]

I think at some point you expect a min HP for a cost, or even a badge

Who would buy an M3 with 250HP

i would if it was light enough. like 800 lbs lighter

The emira has a higher power to weight than a new M4

[Gerbs]

Damn, you guys need 400hp for the street? How fast you guys drive? Are you guys taking corners at like 200km/h? Lol.

Car forums make me believe that people take right turns at like 50KM/hr and left turns at 70 - 80KM.

I'm sure you can probably go higher, but I've never tried lol. I think my S2000 would slide out at a 50KM/hour right turn lmao.

[Hondaracer]

My wife who was a late driver started driving an old pos ford ranger, then onto an Elantra, and now DD’s the g37. Outside of all the creature comforts a more luxurious vehicle provides she also really appreciates the ability to step on the gas and actually get out of scenarios which she’d likely be stuck in with the Elantra etc. she’s the opposite of a dangerous driver but having a bit of power to maneuver out of situations isn’t a bad thing

[tofu1413]

I think at some point you expect a min HP for a cost, or even a badge

Who would buy an M3 with 250HP

If it was a 2200lb 250hp E30 M3, I’d buy it. :lawl:

[EvoFire]

My wife who was a late driver started driving an old pos ford ranger, then onto an Elantra, and now DD’s the g37. Outside of all the creature comforts a more luxurious vehicle provides she also really appreciates the ability to step on the gas and actually get out of scenarios which she’d likely be stuck in with the Elantra etc. she’s the opposite of a dangerous driver but having a bit of power to maneuver out of situations isn’t a bad thing

That reminds me of a funny story with my wife.

We had one car for the longest time, my FBO tuned MS3. She's used to being able to just gun it and get past everyone.

Then she started a new job and it came with a car allowance. We got a F56 Mini Cooper. 3cyl 135hp. The day we picked it up she tried to do the same thing and gun it past a line of cars. I told her stop you can't do that, the Mini doesn't have the same kind of power.

I ended getting a tune on the Mini so she got a little bit more power at her disposal.

[Badhobz]

Your wives are dangerous !! Ban them before they crash into a Richmond mini mall

[jing]

I think at some point you expect a min HP for a cost, or even a badge

Who would buy an M3 with 250HP

*E36 M3 owners have entered the chat*

[hud 91gt]

I swear my wife gets off on the torque of my RAV4 compared to her CRV haha.

[Gerbs]

Curious if a GTS Cayman 4.0 would be funner than the Emira, I booked a test drive just for fun on the emira

[sonick]

I swear my wife gets off on the torque of my RAV4 compared to her CRV haha.

Lol same with my wife and the same car.

[westopher]

I think at some point you expect a min HP for a cost, or even a badge

Who would buy an M3 with 250HPOr one with 197hp. What kind of idiot....:suspicious:
I still think 300hp ish is the sweet spot for street cars, but I don't really care about beating the dickhead in the Tesla off the line. I want to be able to hit 7k RPMs fairly regularly without feeling like I'm going to kill the nearest family. That's where the fun comes from.

[teggy604]

NA1/2 NSX is a good example. Has less HP than an E46 M3 and way less than a supercar. Yet when you drive one you will understand Hondas Philosophy in the 90s.

[Gumby]

That's why my realistic dream car would be a DC2...

[dark0821]

NA1/2 NSX is a good example. Has less HP than an E46 M3 and way less than a supercar. Yet when you drive one you will understand Hondas Philosophy in the 90s.

Man, maybe I just had a crappy example, early gen NA1, maybe it was just worn out, but had a chance to drive one and was honestly a bit underwhelmed...

The engine was the best part of it and it was "good enough", not "WOOOOO VTEECCCCCC"

The suspension was soft, pitch and dive under hard braking (on a street... not even on track)

The brakes were... yea... brakes....

Don't know how to describe it.... The car didn't feel "tight and responsive", like it was a good car don't get me wrong, but it wasn't a "god" car....

I think a huge problem was my self, I had unrealistic expectations.... it was one of those never meet your heros moments... was not jaw dropped amazed, and I think anything below that was not acceptable to me loool

I thought it was gonna be on par with the F355/F360 (I never had a chance to drive those loool), but I did had a chance to rev a F355... my god....

But back on topic, as mentioned above and in my previous post... 400HP is plenty, 400HP will be too much for my miata lol... I think 160whp will be too much for my miata loooolll (160 is double of my whp right now XD)

[tofu1413]

not as sharp as modern standards, but keep in mind the standard car was meant to be a "daily driver super car"

I think what we are seeking will be more akin to the Type R version (or even Type S Zero), the harder core, stiffer, sharper NA1/ NA2

But those will be in the realm of Half a mil CAD nowadays....


Which.............. I'd pick up a 600LT Coupe and still have change !

[Hondaracer]

I’ve never driven an NSX but I feel like in the modern day it would just be a disappointing fan boy car like the Type R and S2000 are.

S2000 at least had the sweet vtec sound with the top down. Type R completely underwhelming as a street car imo.

[dark0821]

^ lol... tell me about it... super scared to drive a R34 now (not that I will ever get a chance) hahaha...

[tofu1413]

^ sorry to disappoint son. stock R34 GTR feels like a G35 with sport suspension of some sort.

[teggy604]

Man, maybe I just had a crappy example, early gen NA1, maybe it was just worn out, but had a chance to drive one and was honestly a bit underwhelmed...

The engine was the best part of it and it was "good enough", not "WOOOOO VTEECCCCCC"

The suspension was soft, pitch and dive under hard braking (on a street... not even on track)

The brakes were... yea... brakes....

Don't know how to describe it.... The car didn't feel "tight and responsive", like it was a good car don't get me wrong, but it wasn't a "god" car....

I think a huge problem was my self, I had unrealistic expectations.... it was one of those never meet your heros moments... was not jaw dropped amazed, and I think anything below that was not acceptable to me loool

I thought it was gonna be on par with the F355/F360 (I never had a chance to drive those loool), but I did had a chance to rev a F355... my god....



If you get a chance to drive a F355 then you might be more disappointed, because the NSX is a better car according to car magazines and car reviewers back then. I never got a chance to drive an F355 so I personally can't say anything about it.

[Badhobz]

I think we all look back at these old cars with rosy tinted glasses but in reality most of these are pretty crap compared to the new stuff. They were just really good for it’s time.

[Hondaracer]

One car I will say still feels amazing decades later is the 993 911

My dad has a cab and that thing still feels like a good old sports car, very fun

[teggy604]

I think we all look back at these old cars with rosy tinted glasses but in reality most of these are pretty crap compared to the new stuff. They were just really good for it’s time.

True. New cars I feel like I am a skilled driver, then the old cars humble me back to earth lol.

[AstulzerRZD]

The G37x was fast af back in the day and still fast imo now lol. I think once people drive the GT3 / Z06, everything else becomes back to slow. Note to self, never drive them or sit in them. :ilied:

The sensation of speed is such an interesting thing.

458 Challenge & Aventador felt like everything was happening faster than I could comprehend.

Not so different in speed: 911 Cup/Performante felt like I was in complete control of what was gonna happen next.

Coming back to reality.... S550 Mustangs feel way slower than they actually are (is it the lack of feedback? suspension?); whereas going 50 in s2k feels like 90 in a normal car

[tofu1413]

One car I will say still feels amazing decades later is the 993 911

My dad has a cab and that thing still feels like a good old sports car, very fun

993 TT. MY god that thing is fast (even for today’s standards)

Plus the smaller footprint adds to the crazier sensation than the water cooled cars

[The Producer]

Great written update from the always eloquent Harry Metcalfe :thumbs:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn87ziot9-N/

Fast approaching 4000miles in the Emira and added 400 of those yesterday with a drive up to Tyrrell Classic cars to see the progress being made on the Countach and Espada (video coming soon..).

Things I’ve learnt about the Emira so far include it’s a very enjoyable companion, that I’m using almost as a daily. It uses a bit more fuel than I expected, 29mpg is possible on motorway runs but generally it’s 23-25mpg.

The upside is it comes alive on the N.Wales roads I was on yesterday, thanks to having more than ample power (today’s power wars often means driving becomes a battle of willpower to not go too crazy), a great gear change, strong brakes, with a solid pedal that’s perfect for heel & toe blipping and a general feeling of lightness despite what the scales might say.

Key to how it feels is the steering that’s just a delight and overflows with information. It reminds me of the GT3 Touring on roads like this, with the rim constantly writhing in your hands as the Emira flows over the rumpled tarmac so typical of roads up here. One grumble was the wipers struggle to keep the windscreen clean in mucky conditions, especially on the passenger side but maybe the washers need adjusting, let’s see.

Another interesting discovery is the Emira handles much like a GT3 too because it has near identical front/rear weight balance at approx 62R/38F. Once you’re aware of this rear bias and adjust the way you drive accordingly, it becomes a joy to punt on the roads I was on yesterday.

I also like the way Lotus flies under the supercar radar and doesn’t shout ‘flash car’ when out and about. That’s a huge plus in my book, yet everyone comments on how good this car looks and are amazed when I say it lists at £77k.

I should do another Emira video update with more info but that’s one for another day..

[Traum]

Can't agree with how the Emira doesn't should "flash car" when it is out and about. Yes, it isn't as flamboyant as a Lambo or Ferrari because it has simpler and softer lines, but it is still a very pretty, and very eye-catching car.

I'm surprised by the 38F/62R weight distribution though. It is supposed to be an MR!

[tofu1413]

Sounds like a good drivers car. Last of the non bs, non hybrid / paper spec car.

Just good driving and adequate performance. It’s a nice companion to have in the garage!

Can’t wait to drive one if we ever get one on trade!

@teggy- I finally had some seat time in a 355 spider with the gated six speed the other day.

My god. It has no torque. The NSX has way more torque with its smaller V6.

Having said that, the power band is very peaky yet makes the 355 a bit more involving and rewarding to drive. That thing screams and only a 5 valve per cylinder design can make that howl…. Was one cool experience.

As for interior besides the cool shifter and nice grain of Italian leathers…. Is complete shit to the build quality of the NSX interior….

Both are handsome Italian design wedges but the NSX is the one you want to live with, the 355…. Is like that side girl friend you fool around with once in a while.

[AzNightmare]

Can't agree with how the Emira doesn't should "flash car" when it is out and about. Yes, it isn't as flamboyant as a Lambo or Ferrari because it has simpler and softer lines, but it is still a very pretty, and very eye-catching car.

I'm surprised by the 38F/62R weight distribution though. It is supposed to be an MR!

It depends which Ferrari too, but I would say the Emira looks flashier than some Ferrari's too. The Emira definitely has supercar design vibes.

Which is why in previous pages, while not being a slow car, people were saying it's kind of slow relative to how it looks. Straight line isn't everything, but it is slower than a GR Supra in the 1/4 mile. I'm fine with that though.. The price reflects that, as this doesn't cost anywhere close to a 10 second Lambo or Ferrari.

[mb_]

I got a chance to attend a launch event in 2021 for the Emira. While they didn't let us drive it and it was a prototype so some of the things weren't finalized yet, the interior is very Volvo like which isn't surprising since they're both owned by Geely. Probably done as cost cutting procedure but it's not a bad thing since Volvo interiors are very high quality imo. Just sitting in it definitely feels like a more livable and daily-able interior than an Evora, let alone the Elise and Exige.

[Dbone]

Throttle House has done a review

[Bender Unit]

Beautiful Lotus

I wasn't sold on the Evora
but this one DID it exterior wise.

:thumbsup: from a previous Lotus Exige S owner.