[quasi]

I've been putting off buying my wife a vehicle for a year, if I have to I could wait another year the only issue she's now sharing her car with my son who has his license now.

I looked at some yesterday, stealerships still asking 10% over MSRP with no room for negotiation, seems steep with interest rates in the 8+ percentage. Opinions on when we might see a shift, is supply still really that bad and when will interest rates start pushing prices down?

[Badhobz]

I did this same exercise with a co worker recently. She wanted a new car, she was looking at econoboxes and ran into the issues you said above. Most dealerships either has limited or no inventory (still) and they want you to pay over asking.

Ultimately when we did the math, the tesla was just a cheaper purchase.
The Model Y can be delivered this month, no games, no dealer bs. Just need to make sure you can find somebody who can qualify you for the rebates and it works out to be about the same if not cheaper than a ratrolla or a civic.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Fn1Wp4W/Corolla.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/pXTqb7LG/civic.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/QdKmVT5c/Tesla-Y.jpg

P.s. Fuck you Honda and your 32k base model Civic.

I still dislike Tesla's immensely but the value proposition is the best in the market right now.

[jaaagman]

I got my Mazda at MSRP, but that depends on what you're trying to buy. Seems like some dealers are tacking mandatory add-ons like ceramic coatings and cash cams. Others are forcing you to trade-in and/or finance...

[Badhobz]

my brother in law bought a murano early this year and they forced him to "lease" it. A stinking MURANO!!!

of course this dumb ass didnt ask me or the wife for help, and picked literally the worst car to spend 55k on. Nissan CVT? shit resale? gas pig? lame interior space? yeah and you paid friggin HOW MUCH FOR THAT?!

[bcrdukes]

lol he got raped

[mb_]

I've been putting off buying my wife a vehicle for a year, if I have to I could wait another year the only issue she's now sharing her car with my son who has his license now.

I looked at some yesterday, stealerships still asking 10% over MSRP with no room for negotiation, seems steep with interest rates in the 8+ percentage. Opinions on when we might see a shift, is supply still really that bad and when will interest rates start pushing prices down?

It's gonna be a while... if ever. There's still dealerships around that only charge you for MSRP and no other add on bs. Just have to look around and ask around.

[MarkyMark]

Seems like car companies are doing better keeping inventory low and pricing high I doubt things will change unless a big recession hits and they can't sell anything.

[Badhobz]

yeah its just like working from home now.

Once the dealerships had a taste of the good life, they wont go back to the high inventory, high volume, numerous incentives days of yore. They'll artificially keep inventory low just to ensure everyone gets it straight up the ass.

that co worker of mine was told 3 month for a corolla.. A COROLLA!!!!!

[quasi]

It's gonna be a while... if ever. There's still dealerships around that only charge you for MSRP and no other add on bs. Just have to look around and ask around.

I haven't looked that hard to be honest just went to a few dealerships near me. I would think it has to give as some point, historically rates and prices go up and down depending on interest rates, I guess the caveat is supply issues like we really haven't seen at least not in my life time as a consumer.

At this point are they just artificially holding back supply because it's good for the bottom line?

I'm just too cheap to pay that much over MSRP, it's more the principle that anything lol.

[jing]

My relative bought a car recently from Richmond Subaru at MSRP. Cash purchase. We did have to sit through the typical finance office BS though.

[The Producer]

At this point are they just artificially holding back supply because it's good for the bottom line?


absolutely yes

I'm just too cheap to pay that much over MSRP, it's more the principle that anything lol.


i feel you - it's hard on the brain. yes - it sucks, but it's just the way it is now.

the S in MSRP stands for suggested. there isn't and never has been a requirement for any dealer to charge this number at any time.

they've used C19 as a way to normalize charging more - and the OEM's have no problem with it.

this will change when the dealership model is abandoned. we're not far from it. What's the point of a car dealership in a prime condo location? dealerships are going to sell out soon. Central repair and delivery centers are all that will be needed.

[quasi]

absolutely yes



i feel you - it's hard on the brain. yes - it sucks, but it's just the way it is now.

the S in MSRP stands for suggested. there isn't and never has been a requirement for any dealer to charge this number at any time.

they've used C19 as a way to normalize charging more - and the OEM's have no problem with it.

this will change when the dealership model is abandoned. we're not far from it. What's the point of a car dealership in a prime condo location? dealerships are going to sell out soon. Central repair and delivery centers are all that will be needed.

All true, I've always paid under on every new vehicle I've purchased over the years, it's hard to come to grips with paying over and them having all the power.

I guess I could try contacting a bunch of dealerships on a particular model and see what they are willing to do and just go with the one that rapes me the most gently.

I'm not even opposed to a low mileage lease return but the problem with used is they want almost as much as new so at that point it's why bother.

[mb_]

I haven't looked that hard to be honest just went to a few dealerships near me. I would think it has to give as some point, historically rates and prices go up and down depending on interest rates, I guess the caveat is supply issues like we really haven't seen at least not in my life time as a consumer.

At this point are they just artificially holding back supply because it's good for the bottom line?

I'm just too cheap to pay that much over MSRP, it's more the principle that anything lol.

To an extent, yeah. More often than not dealers have no control with the new cars they're getting in so a way to control supply is make it harder for people to get them aka maximize their profits. Demand is basically higher than supply so hard to make money if you don't have something to sell.

When I got my 4Runner last year, I paid MSRP with no room for negotiation and that was with connections too. They did sell it to me without having to trade another car in though, or add a bunch of extended warranties, paint protection, etc. I considered that a win already in this day and age lol.

[radeonboy]

I had no problems picking up my WRX at the Subaru in Coquitlam for MSRP + doc fee (what was quoted on the Subaru website). Sales didn't care how I structured the deal and the finance lady was the most chill F&I person I've ever worked with. She straight up said "you're probably not even going to keep this car for the warranty term so don't even bother with the extended warranty options". I wanted to buy a prepaid maintenance package but she said "lol no Subaru doesn't do that".

Definitely shop around - my first attempt was at Subaru on Marine and they were lowballing my trade + tacking on mandatory accessories. What are you looking to buy?

[JDMDreams]

Yea it sucks to buy now + interest rate, i think there's gonna be a slow down pretty soon. Unless you're a dumbass I don't see why you would want to finance at 8% or pay cash either given % rate. I think the market is getting pretty tired, most average consumers are getting tapped out. Also $2.05 gas prices. Why not just spend 10k for a beater for a n driver.

[Edison_Chen]

I picked up our new Lexus RX 350h a few weeks back and I paid MSRP and No mandatory dealer add ons.

[trollface]

Really depends on what you're buying. Go over the Mitsubishi, they're having buy one get one free.

[radeonboy]

Really depends on what you're buying. Go over the Mitsubishi, they're having buy one get one free.

And also who you know. One of my friends picked up a MK8 Golf R at MSRP with cash as well.

[Badhobz]

^^TROLLFACE?!?!!

[Badhobz]

I picked up our new Lexus RX 350h a few weeks back and I paid MSRP and No mandatory dealer add ons.

you bought that beluga headed RX!? how is it so far?

From what ive read these are the issues so far on clublexus:
- electronic door lock/handle freezes during the winter and you cant open the door. Apparently the moisture gets in there and freezes
- the gas cap cover panel is misaligned on like 50% of these due to fit and finish issues
- the user interface occasionally crashes and that heads up display steering wheel controller is frustrating a lot of people cuz it doesn't always work when you press it.

[Traum]

100% agree on Badhobz' suggestion for Tesla. Model 3 or Y -- the rebates, no BS, and availability really make them the most attractive deal for new cars right now. I also agree with the others that in this day and age, the car sales dealership model has become outdated, and outlived it purposes. It is exactly like the taxi model becoming outdated, and getting replaced by a combination of car sharing programs and Uber/Lyft.

Question for Badhobz though -- I can't help but noticed that you were putting in a LOT of effort into helping this female coworker of yours. Wink wink nudge nudge :ifyouknow:

I did this same exercise with a co worker recently. She wanted a new car, she was looking at econoboxes and ran into the issues you said above. Most dealerships either has limited or no inventory (still) and they want you to pay over asking.

Ultimately when we did the math, the tesla was just a cheaper purchase.
The Model Y can be delivered this month, no games, no dealer bs. Just need to make sure you can find somebody who can qualify you for the rebates and it works out to be about the same if not cheaper than a ratrolla or a civic.

[SSM_DC5]

I haven't looked that hard to be honest just went to a few dealerships near me. I would think it has to give as some point, historically rates and prices go up and down depending on interest rates, I guess the caveat is supply issues like we really haven't seen at least not in my life time as a consumer.

At this point are they just artificially holding back supply because it's good for the bottom line?

I'm just too cheap to pay that much over MSRP, it's more the principle that anything lol.

Send out emails. Don't have to go anywhere, BCC all the dealers with the same email. Sit back and see who bites.

[Badhobz]

Question for Badhobz though -- I can't help but noticed that you were putting in a LOT of effort into helping this female coworker of yours. Wink wink nudge nudge :ifyouknow:
:fullofwin: shes 60 years old :fullofwin:

just my type... :ilied:

[MarkyMark]

:fullofwin: shes 60 years old :fullofwin:

just my type... :ilied:

The type to have a 25 year old daughter?

[quasi]

Send out emails. Don't have to go anywhere, BCC all the dealers with the same email. Sit back and see who bites.

Yeah, this is how I bought my current truck. At the time you could negotiate, I made an offer on the truck with certain Options, same offer to all 4, 3 of them said no one of them said yeah we'll do it. I just drove to the dealership the next day, signed the papers and drove home, even had my trade negotiated by email but I was reasonable with everything.

I don't like the whole sit in my office experience well I speak to my manager approach either, not sure if they still do that but I refuse to take part in that bullshit.

[quasi]

Yea it sucks to buy now + interest rate, i think there's gonna be a slow down pretty soon. Unless you're a dumbass I don't see why you would want to finance at 8% or pay cash either given % rate. I think the market is getting pretty tired, most average consumers are getting tapped out. Also $2.05 gas prices. Why not just spend 10k for a beater for a n driver.

I wouldn't finance especially at that rate, I figured that the high interest rates might put downward pressure on the prices but haven't seen it.

[Badhobz]

The type to have a 25 year old daughter?

no, shes a old sad lady who's all alone (never got married, always wanted kids, but boat's sailed on that one...)

Pretty ostracized by the rest of the work group too because they are all 25-35 year old cunts who think shes old fashion and sad.

shes super nice, i dont know why they all hate her. Anyways i dont mind helping this lady. FeelsBadMan

[Hakkaboy]

I did this same exercise with a co worker recently. She wanted a new car, she was looking at econoboxes and ran into the issues you said above. Most dealerships either has limited or no inventory (still) and they want you to pay over asking.

Ultimately when we did the math, the tesla was just a cheaper purchase.
The Model Y can be delivered this month, no games, no dealer bs. Just need to make sure you can find somebody who can qualify you for the rebates and it works out to be about the same if not cheaper than a ratrolla or a civic.

https://i.postimg.cc/9Fn1Wp4W/Corolla.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/pXTqb7LG/civic.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/QdKmVT5c/Tesla-Y.jpg

P.s. Fuck you Honda and your 32k base model Civic.

I still dislike Tesla's immensely but the value proposition is the best in the market right now.

I've never leased a car before, but isn't there some sort of equity on non-Telsa leases where you could either purchase the car at end of the lease (or even some positive equity on trade ins) that you won't get on a Telsa as that's purely a rental without any buy out possible?

That and people still drive 20k/year?

Gotta admit though, the way they layered in the "gas savings" is a great marketing trick.

[trollface]

Strech out the gas savings long enough the car is free.

[inv4zn]

I've never leased a car before, but isn't there some sort of equity on non-Telsa leases where you could either purchase the car at end of the lease (or even some positive equity on trade ins) that you won't get on a Telsa as that's purely a rental without any buy out possible?

That and people still drive 20k/year?

Gotta admit though, the way they layered in the "gas savings" is a great marketing trick.

With conventional leases, the buyout price is listed at the beginning of the loan - this is the manufacturer taking an educated guess as to what your car will be worth at that time.

If the 2023 Civic, in 4 years, has a buyout price of $12,000; but in actuality in 2027 after Covid-III, the car is worth $40K, then you buy the car outright for $12000+tax/fees, and you own a car worth $40K. If it's worth $6k at the time, you just give it back to the dealer.

The "gas savings" shtick Tesla uses bothers me - it's not $499/month, it's $910/month with money you're not spending on gas. It's kinda the same thing, but isn't really. At least now their website actually shows you the $910, before it didn't used to.

[radeonboy]

One thing to keep in mind when factoring in 'gas savings' is that gas consumption can be varied depending on lifestyle changes that affect her driving needs (driving less than anticipated, lifestyle / job changes requiring less travel, going away on vacation etc.)

With the Tesla she'll be stuck paying that $911 lease regardless of how much she uses the car. Furthermore, a lot of those savings evaporate if she's dependent on Supercharging to fill up.

[JDMDreams]

I dunno man gas only goes up I don't ever see it coming back down, assuming 150 liters a month that's already $307.5 a month at $2.05 on an econobox.

+ $450 lease payment that's like 83% of the Tesla already

[donk.]

The "gas savings" shtick Tesla uses bothers me - it's not $499/month, it's $910/month with money you're not spending on gas.

I was gonna comment on this too, very sleazy.

[Badhobz]

But it’s not 911 either. Cuz you gotta minus the 10k in government incentives. So real price is probably somewhere like 750 or 800 a month. Minus the 200-300 bucks saved on gas.

In the case of my old bat at work, she drives from mission everyday. I’m sure she’ll save money. She can charge at home.

[J____]

so... how hard would it be to buy a rubicon unlimited for msrp atm?

[AstulzerRZD]

so... how hard would it be to buy a rubicon unlimited for msrp atm?

Shouldn't be hard. 4XE are going for some pretty strong discounts.
Gladiator body have been discounting since last year

[dark0821]

I guess you are trying to get a Plug-in or hybrid?

We have been selling what we have in stock for MSRP + doc fee basically...and we dont care if you cash, finance or lease

take the final number (including tax) from the official Hyundai Canada website, and our final price falls within $700 ish of that number... which is pretty close to ($599 + tax)...

Having said that.... our new inventory are still like 10 to 14 cars over a 12 car product line.... so avg less than 1 car per model lmao... or it can be our Elantra, no inventory regardless of color or trim for like 2 month at a time... and when like 2 or 3 allocations do show up, they sell under 10 minutes lolol

[Edison_Chen]

you bought that beluga headed RX!? how is it so far?

From what ive read these are the issues so far on clublexus:
- electronic door lock/handle freezes during the winter and you cant open the door. Apparently the moisture gets in there and freezes
- the gas cap cover panel is misaligned on like 50% of these due to fit and finish issues
- the user interface occasionally crashes and that heads up display steering wheel controller is frustrating a lot of people cuz it doesn't always work when you press it.


The gas cap cover panel on mine looks good. It's definitely not like another member on CL. Maybe they have an early production vehicle.

I haven't driven it very much, but the I dont find the head-ups display with the steering wheel button problematic; doesn't bother me very much. Initially it was weird, as most vehicles use regular buttons in those places, but after a few days, it doesn't bother me at all.

[Badhobz]

I’m seeing these new RX s all over Richmond now. Even saw one in that bronze colour. Not bad. LC for 2024 also available in that bronze

[red kryptonite]

its never going to be a great time to buy a new car anytime soon for the reasons stated above... and dont forget tax on $50k-ish+ is now 15%... wasnt stoked to find that out on delivery day.

[radeonboy]

I’m seeing these new RX s all over Richmond now. Even saw one in that bronze colour. Not bad. LC for 2024 also available in that bronze

I wasn't too warm on the Beluga RXs in the beginning, but they're starting to grow on me now that I see more of them around town. Is it just me or do they look smaller than the outgoing generation?

Also found out my parents ordered a RZ in that new bronze color which for some reason they don't offer for the model in North America. Quite interested to see what that'll look like when I visit them.

[Badhobz]

yeah i think youre right, it does look smaller. especially from the rear 1/4 view for some reason.

Its growing on me too, its not as hideous in person as in the pictures. Though im not a fan of the new interior at all. that tacked on tablet integration looks cheap.

[68style]

That bronze colour looks like baby ate too much apple sauce to me

[spacemanrick]

I had no problems picking up my WRX at the Subaru in Coquitlam for MSRP + doc fee (what was quoted on the Subaru website). Sales didn't care how I structured the deal and the finance lady was the most chill F&I person I've ever worked with. She straight up said "you're probably not even going to keep this car for the warranty term so don't even bother with the extended warranty options". I wanted to buy a prepaid maintenance package but she said "lol no Subaru doesn't do that".

Definitely shop around - my first attempt was at Subaru on Marine and they were lowballing my trade + tacking on mandatory accessories. What are you looking to buy?

I am looking for a 2024 Subaru Crosstrek for a family member. Do you mind telling me which salesman you dealt with at Coquitlam Subaru? I am also happy to let him know you referred me to him if you want to let me know your name....

Thanks, Richard

[JDMDreams]

Damn my friend just got into a car accident, air bags blown so I'm guessing it's most likely gonna be a write off. Wondering what car he will get next.

[lowside67]

It's been 10 months since I bought my Durango, which admittedly is a very different animal than a Corolla, but I found a WILDLY varying experience. There was a $2k incentive directly from Dodge and every dealer in the country practically except my dealer 6 blocks away was aware and willing to honour it, so MSRP - $2k. The local guys literally tried to make up some sob story which was complete shit about how they had to "pay over msrp" and therefore needed to not offer it.

I ended up negotiating a bit and I got my Durango for $2k discount, $2k rebate, and a strong trade value. But it took a week and visiting 4 dealerships and generally negotiating hard against each other plus knowing exactly what I wanted, the price of it, and availability.

I think there is room to negotiate these days, but you have to cast a wide net.

-Mark

[Eff-1]

It's always going to be make/model dependent. Domestic cars have never had a very high demand in this market and dealers have a hard time moving stock. Except perhaps for pickup trucks.

Toyota/Hyundai/Tesla on the other hand, it's near impossible.

Anyways, here's a CBC article on this subject (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747). This economist who studies the car industry basically said:

According to Young, the average price of a Canadian passenger vehicle is just over $45,000 right now. That figure is up by 30 per cent since 2019, "but it would be misleading to suggest that all car prices skyrocketed in the pandemic," she said in an interview.

"A big part it was auto makers dedicating their limited supply of components into their most profitable vehicles."

"Energy and material prices are flat now but way up since 2019," she said. "Friendshoring and rejigging supply chains cost them. If you look at [all these factors] you see the legitimacy of why a car should cost more now."

"I understand that prices go up and I understand that COVID affected things," she said. "I believe some of it but I think the dealerships are driving up rates and enjoying it because they can charge whatever they want — they say this is how much it is, and you say 'yes please' and wonder if you're going to get kicked again."

[trollface]

That's because it's a Durango.

They prob didn't even know they had one in the back next to the Mitsubishi Mirage and RVR.

[quasi]

It's always going to be make/model dependent. Domestic cars have never had a very high demand in this market and dealers have a hard time moving stock. Except perhaps for pickup trucks.

Toyota/Hyundai/Tesla on the other hand, it's near impossible.

Anyways, here's a CBC article on this subject (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747). This economist who studies the car industry basically said:

According to Young, the average price of a Canadian passenger vehicle is just over $45,000 right now. That figure is up by 30 per cent since 2019, "but it would be misleading to suggest that all car prices skyrocketed in the pandemic," she said in an interview.

"A big part it was auto makers dedicating their limited supply of components into their most profitable vehicles."

"Energy and material prices are flat now but way up since 2019," she said. "Friendshoring and rejigging supply chains cost them. If you look at [all these factors] you see the legitimacy of why a car should cost more now."

"I understand that prices go up and I understand that COVID affected things," she said. "I believe some of it but I think the dealerships are driving up rates and enjoying it because they can charge whatever they want — they say this is how much it is, and you say 'yes please' and wonder if you're going to get kicked again."

My issue isn't so much with prices going up over the last few years, it's what I'm assuming is the lack of supply that is driving some vehicles way past MSRP. I think you nailed it a bit, it's certain manufacturers that are having worse stock issues than others and they are charging huge for those vehicles.

If I can buy a car at MSRP plus taxes and dealer fees I'm fine with that. I just really expected with interest rates at what they are at it would put downward pressure on the above scenario happening but I haven't really seen it with some manufacturers. I guess it's just a simple supply/demand issue so the real question is will the supply ever catch up to the demand again or will they prevent that from happening regardless of ability to make that happen.

I seen a 3 year old car today with 20K on it where if available new for the same model with the same options the MSRP on the new one is 15% less than what they are asking for the 3 year old used one. That's the shit I'm referring to.

[Badhobz]

Dont forget the all mighty eclipse cross.

[radeonboy]

^Ugh a family auntie got suckered into an Eclipse after getting the runaround at Toyota Richmond. The thing is alright but it feels like a downgrade from the string of RAV4s she had (and kept totaling) - definitely would not pay $40k for one. I don't know if I should be happy or sad that she skipped visiting Nissan.

[lowside67]

That's because it's a Durango.

They prob didn't even know they had one in the back next to the Mitsubishi Mirage and RVR.
Lol - it wasn't a V6 base model, it was something fairly specific. And it doesn't suck, I promise!

-Mark

[AstulzerRZD]

Lol - it wasn't a V6 base model, it was something fairly specific. And it doesn't suck, I promise!

-Mark

aha Durango slaps, the ZF8/V8 combo does upshift braps heh,

[quasi]

Finally found something for the wife, was looking for a vehicle that wasn't a gas pig that would get her to and from work and that I didn't have to finance knowing our mortgage is going up next year. She wanted a Corolla Hatchback and I've tried but came to the realization that's impossible unless she wants to wait another 6-12 months or I pay more than MSRP for a used on.

I was looking online and seen the Kia Forte GT Limited which was new and only a few thousand more MSRP than a new Corolla XSE that she wanted, I was surprised at how nice the interior was for an eco box.

Just have to get the rear windows tinted, not terrible for a car in the low 30's.

https://i.ibb.co/kXTQQX1/1.png (https://ibb.co/x6bJJ6H)
https://i.ibb.co/N3CqzZH/2.jpg (https://ibb.co/9vg0jsC)
https://i.ibb.co/MNkr618/4.jpg (https://ibb.co/bd5TJvH)
https://i.ibb.co/pztDHxc/5.jpg (https://ibb.co/wW9HnRV)

[Badhobz]

man ole man have these korean cars come a long way. This doesnt look econo at all... in fact it looks more premium than the lexus product from 15 years ago.

[headhunt3r]

Non-Hyundai N cars also have that red line along the bottom of the car too within the same parent company? Way to dilute your N branding Hyundai / Kia.

[MarkyMark]

So evidently it is all good at Applewood lol

Nothing a hairdryer and dental floss won't fix

[TypeRNammer]

Kia Forte GT is a low key decent eco box, definitely more exciting than a Corolla

Turbo 4 pot with a 7 speed DCT.

[JDMDreams]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hyundai-kia-recall-91000-us-vehicles-over-fire-risks-urge-owners-park-outside-2023-08-03/

Yea this is still why I don't trust in Korean cars and their depreciation

[donk.]

The only difference between Korean and American cars, is that the American cars spend 20% of their profits, paying lawyers to prevent recalls for as long as possible