[sonick]

So I recently got my oil change on my 2010 Rav4 V6, and pretty much immediately days after, noticing a loud clatter for 2-3 seconds on startup after it's been sitting for a prolonged period of time (45mins+).

It happens even when the engine is hot.

Based on my research it looks to be an issue of the VVTI locking pin not engaging properly, which is controlled by oil pressure.

I know earlier engines this was a weak point, but by the 2GR in 2010 they should have fixed this issue, and as long as its been maintained well there should be no issues. Car only has 140k kms and has had regular maintenance and oil changes from the dealer since new. I've had an older, higher mileage (200k kms) Rav6 with the same engine and never encountered this issue.

Wanted to ask if there's any likelihood that an oil change could make this start suddenly.

I noticed that for some reason they changed the oil weight from what it used to be (0w20) to 5w30. Also the oil level seemed to be quite high, not sure if overfilling could cause this (hard to tell on the dipstick with brand new clean oil)

Or perhaps a faulty oil filter with faulty anti-drain back that is causing it to lose oil pressure when it sits?

It's just odd how it did not have this issue at all (e.g. not intermittent or occasional), and only started immediately after the oil change and it happens on EVERY start after sitting for more than 45 mins.

[68style]

Paging immortality the 2gr expert (but not Toyota tech... tho he probably could be one haha)

[mb_]

VVT-i gears most likely needs to be replaced from what you're describing. What's most likely happening is the oil that's in the gears is draining to the sump while the car is sitting. Why did it happen after an oil change? I'm not sure.

Even with the most meticulously maintained, mint engine, it could still happen and I've seen it.

[JDMDreams]

I wonder if it's the same noise I hear on the 2.4 4 cylinder, there's this clatter at cold starts or if the car has been sitting for a few hours.

[mb_]

I wonder if it's the same noise I hear on the 2.4 4 cylinder, there's this clatter at cold starts or if the car has been sitting for a few hours.

Most likely is

[JDMDreams]

I never looked into what it is but the car has only been dealer serviced since new and still had it and they never brought up it being an issue

[sonick]

VVT-i gears most likely needs to be replaced from what you're describing. What's most likely happening is the oil that's in the gears is draining to the sump while the car is sitting. Why did it happen after an oil change? I'm not sure.

Even with the most meticulously maintained, mint engine, it could still happen and I've seen it.

But so suddenly from nothing to happening 100% of the time when the car sits?

It's just too coincidental, especially since the 2GR should have been improved vs the earlier gen.

[mb_]

But so suddenly from nothing to happening 100% of the time when the car sits?

It's just too coincidental, especially since the 2GR should have been improved vs the earlier gen.

Yep I've seen that happen. I have no better explanation other than it's just bad luck. Perhaps someone who's taken them apart and is mechanically inclined can offer some insight.

I worked at a Honda dealership before and it happened to the K motors as well.

[immorality]

Sadly, it's just happens sometimes. I have no better insights.

[Badhobz]

I’ve read a few stories about earlier 2GRs having problems but not 2010+ ones.

Are you absolutely certain it’s VVTI gears ? Maybe get a second opinion.

[immorality]

Maybe a stuck lifter?

[bokch0y]

Curious about the noise. Able to upload a clip of the sound???

Also sucks when shit just happens.

[mb_]

I’ve read a few stories about earlier 2GRs having problems but not 2010+ ones.

Are you absolutely certain it’s VVTI gears ? Maybe get a second opinion.

@sonick since it happens pretty frequently, shouldn't be hard to get it diagnosed by a technician/shop. The ones that I've dealt with at work need to sit overnight and can't be duplicated since it only ever happens when it's first started in the morning then never happens for the rest of the day.

In some rare cases, it could be the timing chain tensioner as well but I've probably only seen it once or twice over the years... and not on the same motor.

[sonick]

Curious about the noise. Able to upload a clip of the sound???

Also sucks when shit just happens.

Here's a clip

https://imgur.com/a/x0jc6if

[sonick]

@sonick since it happens pretty frequently, shouldn't be hard to get it diagnosed by a technician/shop. The ones that I've dealt with at work need to sit overnight and can't be duplicated since it only ever happens when it's first started in the morning then never happens for the rest of the day.

In some rare cases, it could be the timing chain tensioner as well but I've probably only seen it once or twice over the years... and not on the same motor.

For ours if even happens after an hour or more stopped, just maybe shorter time or less intense


The video above was when the engine was hot but sitting for about 90 mins.

[77civic1200]

Where did you get the oil change done? OEM filter? any chance its a cheap filter that's not keeping the oil from draining back into the pan? would explain the timing

[sonick]

Where did you get the oil change done? OEM filter? any chance its a cheap filter that's not keeping the oil from draining back into the pan? would explain the timing

Toyota dealer, OEM filter. Filter thought crossed my mind too.

[Badhobz]

That rattle does sound like VVTI issues though. It’s the same rattle that happens on maserati variators.

Although I’m pretty sure it’s significantly cheaper to remedy on the Toyota engine.

[bokch0y]

Here's a clip

https://imgur.com/a/x0jc6if


Damn yeah that def doesn't sound good.

Any idea why they went to a slightly heavier oil? My understanding is VVTi requires or at least does better on a thinner oil, but 5w30 is the stock recommended oil for your rav yes?

[sonick]

Damn yeah that def doesn't sound good.

Any idea why they went to a slightly heavier oil? My understanding is VVTi requires or at least does better on a thinner oil, but 5w30 is the stock recommended oil for your rav yes?

Yeah on the engine it says 5w30 is stock recommended, so I don't know why they used 0w20 previously.

I read in other applications 0w20 can be used in the 2gr, or that some techs actually recommend it over 5w30.

[bokch0y]

Yeah on the engine it says 5w30 is stock recommended, so I don't know why they used 0w20 previously.

I read in other applications 0w20 can be used in the 2gr, or that some techs actually recommend it over 5w30.

Yeah I've seen the same thing and I can only assume that the change from 5w30 to 0w20 was made to slightly improve fuel efficiency as well as better sludge protection. In 2010, 5w30 may have been the recommended oil at that time, but i noticed that as time progressed, Toyota and Lexus also started to move away from their own recommended oil weight to 0w30 and now 0w20.

I guess, would it be worthwhile to talk to Toyota and have another oil change but back to 0w20?

[68style]

There's no way some minor change in oil weighting is going to suddenly cause that to happen... and if you're planning to go after them, they can just say they put the recommended oil in per manu specs anyway... doubt you're gonna get anywhere going after them.

[mb_]

Yeah on the engine it says 5w30 is stock recommended, so I don't know why they used 0w20 previously.

I read in other applications 0w20 can be used in the 2gr, or that some techs actually recommend it over 5w30.

Around 2010 is when Toyota started using 0W20

[bokch0y]

There's no way some minor change in oil weighting is going to suddenly cause that to happen... and if you're planning to go after them, they can just say they put the recommended oil in per manu specs anyway... doubt you're gonna get anywhere going after them.

yeah didn't think so either and if buddy was to ask to put the recommended specs in the manual, it would more thank likely be 5w30 anyway.

[Badhobz]

Around 2010 is when Toyota started using 0W20

Mine 2010 Lexus Camry is still using 5w30. 0w20 isn’t thick enough for good protection on the older 2GRs I think. The newer 2GR FKS demands it because it’s more efficient with the direct / port injection functionality and requires a lighter weight oil but I’d stick to 5w30 on the older 2GR FEs

[sonick]

There's no way some minor change in oil weighting is going to suddenly cause that to happen... and if you're planning to go after them, they can just say they put the recommended oil in per manu specs anyway... doubt you're gonna get anywhere going after them.

I'm not gonna "go after them" but hopefully they'll show some goodwill considering the timing of it all if I play dumb a bit thinking it's something they did.

As of now I'm waiting for a follow up appointment for them to do the formal diagnosis and recommendation.

If it's a full on replacement of the vvti cam gear ($$$) I'm gonna try to seafoam it and then do my own oil change with a new filter as a last ditch effort.

If that doesn't work then possibly bite the bullet on the work.

[Badhobz]

Is it that hard to replace yourself ? I’m sure if you get some smarty pants like trollface or bic baws to help out, you guys can probably do the work yourself and save the labor.

I don’t think it’s an engine out repair is it ? All the VVTI crap is up top isn’t it ? Well I guess maybe you gotta take off the side of the chain is damaged or something.

I watch this guy religiously

https://youtu.be/QgQ8QqXotEk

https://youtu.be/POGybFIqOII

[underscore]

Mine sometimes makes a grinding noise on startup that I thought sounded like the starter was staying engaged but now I'm thinking it's this instead. It's super intermittent so hard to diagnose.

While trying to find more videos of the noise to compare I found this. These fixes seem pretty straightforward so it might be worth trying them before tearing it fully apart. Apparently there's a TSB for it too so you might be able to have Toyota cover it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfsIsMP9dHQ

[sonick]

Is it that hard to replace yourself ? I’m sure if you get some smarty pants like trollface or bic baws to help out, you guys can probably do the work yourself and save the labor.

I don’t think it’s an engine out repair is it ? All the VVTI crap is up top isn’t it ? Well I guess maybe you gotta take off the side of the chain is damaged or something.

I watch this guy religiously

https://youtu.be/QgQ8QqXotEk

https://youtu.be/POGybFIqOII

Yeah that's where I learned about the vvti locking pin.


According to RAV4 forums it's an engine out procedure

[sonick]

Mine sometimes makes a grinding noise on startup that I thought sounded like the starter was staying engaged but now I'm thinking it's this instead. It's super intermittent so hard to diagnose.

While trying to find more videos of the noise to compare I found this. These fixes seem pretty straightforward so it might be worth trying them before tearing it fully apart. Apparently there's a TSB for it too so you might be able to have Toyota cover it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfsIsMP9dHQ

Thanks, just watched this. Dunno how easy it would be to do the valve covers on a transverse V6 but at least doesn't require engine out. Might be a good second step after the oil change to test out. Fingers crossed.

That said, definitely sounds like something to do with lack of oil pressure. Could easily be an oil filter with a faulty anti drainback valve. Here's hoping...

[EvoFire]

Is it that hard to replace yourself ? I’m sure if you get some smarty pants like trollface or bic baws to help out, you guys can probably do the work yourself and save the labor.

I don’t think it’s an engine out repair is it ? All the VVTI crap is up top isn’t it ? Well I guess maybe you gotta take off the side of the chain is damaged or something.

I watch this guy religiously

https://youtu.be/QgQ8QqXotEk

https://youtu.be/POGybFIqOII

His problem is because his 2GR is in a Rav4. The engine is literally shoehorned in there and it's a bitch to do anything.

[mb_]

Most, if not all 2GR that's mounted transversely will require engine out repairs to do the VVT-i gears

Mine 2010 Lexus Camry is still using 5w30. 0w20 isn’t thick enough for good protection on the older 2GRs I think. The newer 2GR FKS demands it because it’s more efficient with the direct / port injection functionality and requires a lighter weight oil but I’d stick to 5w30 on the older 2GR FEs

Your MY would've been a transitional year. Depending on the production date, etc, your oil cap might say 5W30 or 0W20 is ok to use.

[sonick]

An update on this, I ran some seafoam thru the engine for about 180 kms and did an oil and filter change with Mobil 1 0w30 synthetic.

Happy to say the sound disappeared. No idea if it was the seafoam, oil change, or oil weight.

But at least it proved it was something to do with the last dealer oil change.

Now I wonder if I should stick to 0w30. Do Toyota dealers even carry 0w30?

[Badhobz]

I really can’t imagine it being the oil that’s causing it. Probably seafoam helped clean out the carbon buildup and maybe unstuck a valve that was sticking.

[bcrdukes]

I think it's safe to assume dealers will not normally carry 0W30 oil, or at least it's not popular enough to use in a routine oil change. You may need to specifically request it and pay dearly for it and maybe they will still use 0W20 :)

[hud 91gt]

I put high mileage oil in mine and the noise went away after a week or so. It still happens once in a while when hot outside, but I only use high mileage from now on. Get that oil swelling additives to seal it all back up. Lol

[bcrdukes]

Which brand and weight do you use? I need to switch to a high mileage oil on the 04 Mini Cooper S. I'm still using 5W40. :pokerface:

[EvoFire]

Which brand and weight do you use? I need to switch to a high mileage oil on the 04 Mini Cooper S. I'm still using 5W40. :pokerface:

Shell Rotella T6 all the things

[bcrdukes]

Plz no

[hud 91gt]

Which brand and weight do you use? I need to switch to a high mileage oil on the 04 Mini Cooper S. I'm still using 5W40. :pokerface:

I use whatever was called for. I want to say 5w30 for the Rav?

[rb]

Have a somewhat similar clatter on my 09 rav4 v6 for the last 4yrs. I think its pulley rattle on mine as its intermittent. Very audible at idle but thats when I crank up the tunes and keep driving

[Badhobz]

Have a somewhat similar clatter on my 09 rav4 v6 for the last 4yrs. I think its pulley rattle on mine as its intermittent. Very audible at idle but thats when I crank up the tunes and keep driving

HEY! where the fuck have you been!?!?! havent seen you post in a while broski :suspicious:

[rb]

Bought another townhouse a few months ago so I've been working on it daily. Been making constant and rage-filled home depot/rona runs while beating the absolute piss out of my rav :lol

[hud 91gt]

My rav ended up getting airbags in the rear to carry the loads I was abusing the Rav with ��

[underscore]

Lol I do all our Home Depot runs with the Rav too. No way was I killing myself putting bags of cement into the lifted Grand Cherokee, gimme that sweet Toyota low load bed.