[RabidRat]

Sounds like some of you build stuff professionally, or have gone through the process yourself. Or have friends / family who've done it.

Where we're looking in Toronto, pricing on existing homes seems [naively] comparable to a teardown + build cost. At the same time, it seems like it'd be pretty damn fun to throw together our vision of a forever-home in SketchUp. Also an opportunity to do stuff that isn't available, like having a Garden Suite to rent out / have for the in-laws (Toronto's version of a laneway home, which just got approved last summer), while also re-allocating typical spaces / deleting extras that we'd never use. E.g. wtf's the point of a living room plus a family room?? Merge it or cram in an extra bedroom!!

What are some project realities that might be unexpected for someone who's never done it before? And is it realistic to expect a year to wrap up construction in today's climate? How typical is it for a builder to just disappear? How involved can you / do you have to be? How much would you budget for cost & schedule overruns? Would you do it again?

[bcrdukes]

Am I reading this correct? Please confirm if my understanding is correct.

1. You are relocating to Toronto
2. You are coming from The Bay Area

I am asking because I am in disbelief.

[Hondaracer]

Dunno where you’re getting your costs from but last I checked, in BC at least, it’s $500+ a sq ft builder cost.

Friends of ours just did a reno of a 25 year old Main Street condo through my brother in law who are as honest and cost-friendly as they come and it was over 100k for a fairly basic reno.

To build a 2500sq ft home and coach house in Toronto wouldn’t doubt you’re looking at 800-1 million for contractor grade finishing.

As well, if you have no experience in fairly advanced project management or construction, I HIGHLY recommended you not try and manage a project yourself, it will be a disaster and will cost you more in the long run. Get a construction manager with experience and references.

I have a vision in 5-10 years of building a custom home and managing it myself and ecen for me who actually built custom homes and townhomes etc. it’s extremely daunting, especially in Vancouver. I’m sure Toronto is similar if not worse

I also think many peoples “dream home” vision never becomes reality because of the extreme costs to do things like open floor plans etc. I’m not sure what engineering costs are now, but there are questions like, to obtain an open floor plan main floor, are you willing to eat a 25k engineering cost for structural beams etc. lol

It’s stressful just typing this out lol.. more power to ya if you go through with it, but in the last 5-10 things have gotten EXTREMELY harder for a home owner build

[EvoFire]

^ Honda to go on further from your post, why is it that building in Vancouver is SO DAMN EXPENSIVE compared to like building one in Calgary? We are looking at over $1M for a build in Vancouver but houses are selling for under $1M in Calgary, what gives?

If building is so expensive, even considering the much cheaper land cost and less stringent build codes, wouldn't an existing house with good bones and no major issues sell for over $1M in Calgary as well? I keep hearing 600-700k houses from there.

[radeonboy]

^ Honda to go on further from your post, why is it that building in Vancouver is SO DAMN EXPENSIVE compared to like building one in Calgary? We are looking at over $1M for a build in Vancouver but houses are selling for under $1M in Calgary, what gives?

If building is so expensive, even considering the much cheaper land cost and less stringent build codes, wouldn't an existing house with good bones and no major issues sell for over $1M in Calgary as well? I keep hearing 600-700k houses from there.

I imagine it's something to do with the cost of permits with the city, higher material costs due to more expensive rent from the supplier you're buying from, and labour shortage (thus cost) with tradespeople.

[hud 91gt]

Going through the process of a remodel/new build (basically keeping foundation only). Costs are all over the map. Our biggest hassle has been the city. Our designer is very familiar with the city, and despite a now totally online process knows people in the department and can still meet to toss ideas back and fourth to see what is going to be approved. Your idea of a dream, may not be possible for many reasons. We are opting to spend a ton of time with a designer to get things right. A basic designer will be useless, so you need one with a ton of experience or an architect. Ours in particular has worked hand in hand with an architect design firm for 15-20 years. She’s not branching out on her own so she has connections and knows how things are done in high end homes. Her rate is very reasonable, but she states she does spend more time. We have been very happy so far and been able to get the city to approve everything we’ve worked through. I’d say this is very important, pending your landscape.

Builder pricing is all over the map. These big company will charge upwards of 2-3x what buddy guy will. Where is the discrepancy? I don’t know. How cheap do you go? I don’t know. I’d start looking at new builds in the area you want to build. Talk to the owners and see what they have to say, what they liked/disliked. Who they used etc.

We have our builder picked out who id never pick without a reference. His office is a disaster, everything is “no problem,” yadda yadda. But having experience from 3 builds in our circle, we are will to risk it…. And the price is right.

I don’t know what rent is like in your area, but we are housing our I laws for the build (building on their lot). That’s going to be about 6-7k/month for a roof over our heads while we build, on top of the loan for the build. It’s a lot of outgoing money.

[68style]

I feel like a lot of people talk about homes the same way they talk about engine swaps... just rip it out and put the other one in, no worries... get a mechanic to sort out the wiring... he charges HOW MUCH an hour? Fuck

[GLOW]

As well, if you have no experience in fairly advanced project management or construction, I HIGHLY recommended you not try and manage a project yourself, it will be a disaster and will cost you more in the long run. Get a construction manager with experience and references.


i echo this. i considered doin the same on my previous old home many years ago and realized that i can't manage the job and work a full time job at the same time, it would be too stressful for me to balance work, family, etc. Ended up selling and buying a bigger, newer old home instead. plus i heard getting a construction loan was not as straight forward as a mortgage. on top of that you're probably renting a space for your family to add additional stress...

[Hondaracer]

^ Honda to go on further from your post, why is it that building in Vancouver is SO DAMN EXPENSIVE compared to like building one in Calgary? We are looking at over $1M for a build in Vancouver but houses are selling for under $1M in Calgary, what gives?

If building is so expensive, even considering the much cheaper land cost and less stringent build codes, wouldn't an existing house with good bones and no major issues sell for over $1M in Calgary as well? I keep hearing 600-700k houses from there.

So the old company I worked for was a construction management firm, we mainly built townhomes in Surrey and Langley (300+ while I was there) we also built 6-7 custom homes.

In Vancouver we built a decent home, nothing special but nice as a favour for the owners friend, it was near main and 21st. This fucking house took LONGER to build than subdividing and building 3 giant custom homes in fort Langley.

I was never really privy to the expenses but I think a huge portion of the management fees, and also paying trades in Vancouver, is nothing is ever straight forward, and nothing EVER lines up for scheduling. I think that’s why it’s almost exclusively buddy guy contractors building in Vancouver, and to a lesser extent Chinese builders now.

I’m back in the construction industry (kinda) but I’m meeting all sorts of builders, I deal almost exclusively in Vancouver, and what I’m seeing, or at least the feeling I’m getting are the Chinese builders are actually copying the buddy guys model now. They have an army of cheap labour with only a few actual “professionals” this is common with everyone but I feel like it’s becoming increasingly a thing here lol

Ie. you have one electrician who can pull a permit, he’s the owner of the company, you’ve got 3-5 labourers/first years who do everything else. Same goes for their framers etc. looking like the framer is also doing finishing, etc. to save costs they are using as much overlap as humanly possible. Of course at the cost of quality.

Also what people, the media, CoV, etc etc. aren’t telling people about their wonderful new proposal of multi-plexes etc. is that just because you buy a duplex, and it has its own civic address, the lot your duplex is on is still only a single lot. No one is subdividing these multi plex lots. As a result some of these builders are absorbing HUGE bills for stuff like Hydro etc. because 3rd party services don’t serve a duplex as two independent lots, they serve them as a single lot (as it is in land title etc.)

Vancouver is just such a shit show for building compared to other cities. So I think contractors, trades, charge a premium right off the bat because they know they’re gonna be losing money on their scheduling alone

[GLOW]

doesn't CoV require to build to step code now? i know for part 9 it's much easier, but using this build model, do they know how to keep the building air tight at all? i can picture a labourer going cowboy with the nailing gun turning your continuous barrier to swiss cheese

[Badhobz]

This is exactly why we gave up and decided to buy a new place instead of build at our old house. I actually love my old place a lot but the house would have been barely 3000sqft and we would have sunk in 1-1.5 mil just to create it. That, and the time it'll take to build will mean that we have to go live with the parents or rent for 1-2 years.

So we said fuck all that noise and ended up just buying a new place.

Not worth the headache unless you can stomach being a manager to chase your general contractor who then chases all the trades around like herding cats. Ive seen some of these builds in richmond go completely sideways and they end up being 2-3 years with only having the frame up. By that time the wood is so warped and fucked that you basically have to restart.

[SSM_DC5]

Still undergoing a reno now and I would not do it again. Major regrats. The amount of time and money put into the project even when it's through a GC just isn't worth it.

Permits are good for 2 years, and I'm coming up to needing to renew it. It's not even a full gut reno, like WTF. City inspectors show up majority of the time, the next day after calling for an inspection. Delays are definitely on the contractors side of things rather than dealings with the city.

buy an already built place and just be ignorant of the all the garbage that's produced these days. you'll have less gray hair.

[RabidRat]

Am I reading this correct? Please confirm if my understanding is correct.

1. You are relocating to Toronto
2. You are coming from The Bay Area

I am asking because I am in disbelief.

It'll be an adjustment, for sure.

I think it's the right move though. My wife's family is there and we really need the help with kiddo, esp if we wind up with second. We also have a lot of friends there, a number of whom coincidentally also had kids this / last couple years.

I'm also a little concerned how competitive the academic environment seems out here in SV. My coworkers tell me their kids are struggling, despite after school tutoring / prep programs. I'd rather my kid have a fun time growing up. No doubt the opportunities are great for kids who are bright though: there are engineering summer camps from Apple, Google, NASA Ames, etc. Maybe one day we'll come back, if the kid is into it :).

[EvoFire]

Still undergoing a reno now and I would not do it again. Major regrats. The amount of time and money put into the project even when it's through a GC just isn't worth it.

Permits are good for 2 years, and I'm coming up to needing to renew it. It's not even a full gut reno, like WTF. City inspectors show up majority of the time, the next day after calling for an inspection. Delays are definitely on the contractors side of things rather than dealings with the city.

buy an already built place and just be ignorant of the all the garbage that's produced these days. you'll have less gray hair.

We said the same thing after reno'ing the TH when we bought and moved in.

Then we did it all over again with the house despite. The market conditions didn't allow us to buy a newer house which meant comprehensive rework of all the finishings and shit. We didn't pull permits as it was mainly just cosmetic shit and some fixtures.

I am saying that I want to build our next home. Wife thinks it's never going to happen.

[sdubfid]

Heated driveway

[Gumby]

I bought a teardown on a standard lot in Vancouver and went through the process of building a custom home in 2013. The general contractor (Chinese builder) was my wife's uncle and he has been in the business already for many years, so he was trustworthy and knew what he was doing. The entire build from demolition to move in took about 9 months; we were fortunate to have minimal delays and everything ran smoothly for the most part. This was 10 years ago so things have definitely changed and you're looking at Toronto so my situation won't apply to you.

If you decide to go ahead with a new build, the only advice I can give is this: build something similar to the other new houses in your neighbourhood. This can include:

-Features (if nobody has a sauna in your area, don't include one; if grease/wok kitchen is popular, you must have one too)
-finishings (fancy millwork/tiling? you should also consider something similar)
-ceiling heights (if the new houses have 10' ceilings, you should also have 10' ceilings)
-etc.

This will affect your ability to re-sell the house down the line.

You don't want to build a palace if you live in a modest neighbourhood, nor do you want to build a crappy looking house if you live in a fancy neighbourhood.

[RabidRat]

Thanks all for the insights, this is really helpful. Yeah sounds like if we go through with this, we'd have to budget extra for help with construction management and someone connected to work with the city for permitting, or risk a disaster.

If you decide to go ahead with a new build, the only advice I can give is this: build something similar to the other new houses in your neighbourhood. This can include:

-Features (if nobody has a sauna in your area, don't include one; if grease/wok kitchen is popular, you must have one too)
-finishings (fancy millwork/tiling? you should also consider something similar)
-ceiling heights (if the new houses have 10' ceilings, you should also have 10' ceilings)
-etc.

This will affect your ability to re-sell the house down the line.

I've always heard this and I don't doubt it's true, but I wonder why it doesn't also go the other way around? E.g. if you were the only house in the neighborhood with a rooftop deck, then wouldn't the house stand out to buyers as the one to get?

[Badhobz]

Yeah but most people are lemmings. That’s why nobody buys any colors anymore for cars. It’s black white silver or grey. Anything else and you’re just asking to take a spanking on depreciation.

[EvoFire]

Thanks all for the insights, this is really helpful. Yeah sounds like if we go through with this, we'd have to budget extra for help with construction management and someone connected to work with the city for permitting, or risk a disaster.



I've always heard this and I don't doubt it's true, but I wonder why it doesn't also go the other way around? E.g. if you were the only house in the neighborhood with a rooftop deck, then wouldn't the house stand out to buyers as the one to get?

I kind of think a neighbourhood++ house would sell better. It's kind of like buying a OEM+ build car where the common issues are taken care of and it's a better than stock example. I would pick a house that's slightly nicer than the ones around me maybe it's just me :pokerface:

Yeah but most people are lemmings. That’s why nobody buys any colors anymore for cars. It’s black white silver or grey. Anything else and you’re just asking to take a spanking on depreciation.

That's full of shit actually. It's BS that the dealers are pushing because they want to order less variations. It's been documented that colours are sell quicker.

[noclue]

@hondaracer
My understanding is that outside vancouver, it’s much cheaper/easier/quicker to get permits and if you use buddy guy builders you can achieve $200/sqft. But just beware the costcutting shit they pull hidden behind the drywall.

Is it a lot cheaper to reuse the old foundation or not worthwhile and start from scratch?

[GLOW]

I'm also a little concerned how competitive the academic environment seems out here in SV. My coworkers tell me their kids are struggling, despite after school tutoring / prep programs. I'd rather my kid have a fun time growing up. No doubt the opportunities are great for kids who are bright though: there are engineering summer camps from Apple, Google, NASA Ames, etc. Maybe one day we'll come back, if the kid is into it :).

school's school IMO. I've done elementary here, HS in another province, post secondary in 3 diff provinces. Your kid(s) can be bright or may be struggle, you're going to have to deal with it regardless of location. I have 1 years ahead of the curve, 1 years behind (all good now though). both ended the same - I had to pay $ for tutoring outside of the public school system: 1 to give confidence/keep up, 1 to keep them progressing (1 year he was cruising and tutoring other kids in class b/c teacher didn't give a shit on him as he was so advanced and learned nothing).

moral of the story, you may need to spend $ to invest on your kid(s) education regardless of location, my 2 cents anyway...

now i know why couples with kids are so poor and those without have all the toys :okay:

i feel like this should be in the parenting thread instead :lol

[underscore]

If you decide to go ahead with a new build, the only advice I can give is this: build something similar to the other new houses in your neighbourhood.

If you're just going to build the same house everyone else has why even build? Obviously don't go too over the top but if I'm going through all that hassle there should be some benefit to it.

[hud 91gt]

@hondaracer
My understanding is that outside vancouver, it’s much cheaper/easier/quicker to get permits and if you use buddy guy builders you can achieve $200/sqft. But just beware the costcutting shit they pull hidden behind the drywall.

Is it a lot cheaper to reuse the old foundation or not worthwhile and start from scratch?

Only reason we are reusing the foundation is due to bylaws. We can build .75, whereas a new build would be .60fsr (previously .70). A remodel lets us use every square inch. With the city taking away square footage from the house for my larger garage, every little bit is needed. I doubt there is any cost savings at all. New footings need to be added etc etc.



I think that’s a smart move building aspects of a house similar to others if you plan on selling. Custom homes will always be custom homes to the builder. Slightly awkward to everyone else. A spec homes will be cheaper too! We are going to have some things in our house that if we were to resell people would be like “why did they do this.” But it’s our priorities and wanted it that way… and my wife will never let us sell her childhood home. lol.

[Badhobz]

You can look into something like modular construction / prefab where most of the items are built in a warehouse and then assembled on site. Benefits are its usually better quality control and depending on who you go with, its cheaper.

Like i wanted to go with Bone Structure before (all steel framing, can erect (lol) a house in like 1-2 weeks once everything is ready) but the wife doesnt really like those super modern designs.

https://www.myhousedesignbuild.com/photo-gallery/bone/bone-structure-vancouver/

[GLOW]

There’s a time and place for modular, it’s not cheap, and quality can be hit or miss
There may be something to panelized, but costs more as well

They say it’s faster but they can’t speed up city permits
With Modular you’ll want to read in to the fine print on what you get for home owner warranty as well

[SSM_DC5]

We said the same thing after reno'ing the TH when we bought and moved in.

Then we did it all over again with the house despite. The market conditions didn't allow us to buy a newer house which meant comprehensive rework of all the finishings and shit. We didn't pull permits as it was mainly just cosmetic shit and some fixtures.

I am saying that I want to build our next home. Wife thinks it's never going to happen.

Cosmetic is bearable. I did countertop changes and cabinet door replacements for some areas, but even then it wasn't a flawless process, for example, counter top cut out for the cooktop wasn't centred with the upper cabinets. It wasn't realized until I pointed it out to the GC and it was all fully installed, so it had to be ripped out. Minor errors like that as an example seems like an on going trend for every single trade. Even with a GC, I need to micro manage to try and prevent delays for deficiencies.

Cosmetic reno, maybe deal with it for a month or 2, but a reno that's uses permits, and it's the same crap for 2 years.

[Hondaracer]

@hondaracer
My understanding is that outside vancouver, it’s much cheaper/easier/quicker to get permits and if you use buddy guy builders you can achieve $200/sqft. But just beware the costcutting shit they pull hidden behind the drywall.

Is it a lot cheaper to reuse the old foundation or not worthwhile and start from scratch?

I’ve never seen anyone go to foundation and build back up, at the very most you’d leave the skeleton of the old home and just backframe your new rooms etc.

I’d say outside of retaining the stupid shit with CoV where you can retain the existing square footage by retaining X portion of the existing building, if that requirement wasn’t in place there wouldn’t be a scenario where you’d ever just keep the foundation imo

If we ever build a custom home, which seems like a long shot, but all that shot re:building for future value of sale, personally I wouldn’t even consider. Because the home id build would be a home I’d be staying in for 15-25 years. I’d build it how I wanted not with selling to some schlub in mind who doesn’t want my sauna.

[SSM_DC5]

Your project would never finish because you'd end up in court battles with your GC after they give you staircased laminate, repeated patterns in the washroom tiling, etc.

[twitchyzero]

if you were ever in that position i hope you build to your liking, not for the next person/family

[TOS'd]

Do you like masonry?

[RabidRat]

Who, me? Definitely not. We're basically just looking for a RAV4 Prime of a house, and trying to see if we could justify getting one custom-built w/ a 6MT, locking diffs, and some of the useless frills deleted. Nothing fancy :p.

[Alpine]

@hondaracer
My understanding is that outside vancouver, it’s much cheaper/easier/quicker to get permits and if you use buddy guy builders you can achieve $200/sqft. But just beware the costcutting shit they pull hidden behind the drywall.



This is true in Coquitlam. Low $200s a sqft or less to build (though the cost/sqft is reduced due to the larger home(5500 sqft).

[bcrdukes]

Who, me? Definitely not. We're basically just looking for a RAV4 Prime of a house, and trying to see if we could justify getting one custom-built w/ a 6MT, locking diffs, and some of the useless frills deleted. Nothing fancy :p.

Mansory =/= Masonry (craft of stone/brick etc.) :concentrate:

[Badhobz]

Are we talking about mansory the gauche ass bodykits ?!? I approve.

[dark0821]

Not sure about Toronto, but the 1 year timeline doesn't seem reasonable.

I will say
-once you have your design sorted
-permits approved
-your queue at contractor ended, as in he is gonna show up and start work at your place
-all your sub contractors not missing a beat
-and no hiccups from City Inspectors along the way

~18 months ish from this point till you can move in.

I know it sounds dumb, but my brother in law is in the trade, and even with his "connections", the builder/subcontractors he wants to use all told him they were years out, and just "call them" when the time arrives and they will "find time" to help him if it was his personal house...

Interesting though he told me he figures around $400/sq ft for a decent material/quality house (but I guess thats his cost), so ofc that is not the retail cost.

I was told he can get away with $250/sq ft that will pass all inspections, but he will never personally live in that house lmao

This is first hand information from last night at the Xmas family dinner~ He is budgeting 2 years, all permits are in place, design is finalized, gonna build 6,600 sqft at the west end... and yes... all China money...

[hud 91gt]

If your builder is actually on the balll 8-12 months. But that is pretty rare these days.

[PeanutButter]

If I were building a new house, I would want the following:

- An actual foyer area, not just opening up into the living room like so many new houses are now

- the washroom on the main floor that does not open into a public space like the dining table or family room, I don't want someone taking a shit in the bathroom and then it open up into a public space. nor do I want to hear them, and I also feel it's embarrassing to do your business next to a public area like that.

- I would like an actual covered outdoor space or prep it for an outdoor space. I know this takes away from inside square footage, but it's nice to have a covered outdoor space. Roof top patio's are useless, I wouldn't even bother with that.

- Make sure laundry is on the same floor as the bedrooms

- Double Ethernet cables in every room of the house with a dedicated server room under the stairs or something

- An oversized front and back door, it just makes moving things in and out so much easier. Not a double door because it's not functional on a day to day basis, having a big single door is the way to go.

- For the master washroom, put in a separate closed area for the toilet. When you or your wife drops a poop, there's no need to stink up the entire washroom. For me personally, I would want my own master washroom, my wife is messy AF and her hair goes everywhere. Having two ensuites seems stupid though.

- depends on how huge your house is, but I've always liked the idea of a double island, but most houses in Vancouver are too small for this.

- If space allows, having two dishwashers is amazing for a family and for people who cook regularly. If I had the space, I would have two full sinks in my kitchen. Having a wok kitchen solves this issue also.

[EvoFire]

We don't even fill one dishwasher on a nightly basis, how do you use two?

[bcrdukes]

I have two dishwashers and wished I had a third. :pokerface:

[Manic!]

We don't even fill one dishwasher on a nightly basis, how do you use two?

With 2 you never have to empty a dishwasher. You just take clean dishes from one and put them in the other after you have used them.

[TOS'd]

Dishwashers are for storage, not for washing dishes. :pokerface:

[twitchyzero]

buys fancy german dishwasher
doesnt want extra electricity bill

[EvoFire]

Why didn't I think of that.... And I hate putting dishes away too.

[EvoFire]

buys fancy german dishwasher
doesnt want extra electricity bill

I might have a need for a fancy German dishwasher and no electricity bill :whistle:

[Manic!]

One of the biggest mistakes I see in houses is low voltage wiring. Run cat 6e everywhere. Cat 6e will allow you to use up to 10 gig Ethernet. Spend time planing your AV set up. Even if you don't plan on a home theatre run the wires any way. It will save you and any future home owners a lot of headaches.

Most low voltage installers don't know much about home theatre or audio so do a lot of planning yourself.

[Hondaracer]

95% of low voltage guys are buddy guy labourers.

I’ve legitimately seen people RE-USE Ethernet runs that were clearly pulled out or another house, or an office building etc. and installed in a new build.

I’d say the biggest mistake I ever saw working at Telus was people don’t run fiber from their nib outside into a smart panel/wire hub. By not having a direct fiber connection to where your distribution is, it’s a huge bottle neck

[PeanutButter]

Other than being cheap, I guess reusing cat cable isn't a big deal is it?

My IT friend always told me to run two cat cables as the labour is the same, you just pay more for the cable, but if one cable dies you always have a back up.

I did this during my reno and I'm so glad I did. I didn't know so many things could run off Ethernet. POE cameras, displays, door bells, etc.

[radeonboy]

Other than being cheap, I guess reusing cat cable isn't a big deal is it?

My IT friend always told me to run two cat cables as the labour is the same, you just pay more for the cable, but if one cable dies you always have a back up.

I did this during my reno and I'm so glad I did. I didn't know so many things could run off Ethernet. POE cameras, displays, door bells, etc.
Reusing cables isn't a big deal, but I would want new cables if I'm paying for the work.

While we're on this topic, before running cables it's also good to plan out where outdoor cameras and other PoE devices will go so cables are laid out while the walls are still open. Especially outdoor cameras since you want a wired solution for a stable connection.

Then make sure these cables terminate in a nice closet to house all that networking equipment.

[unit]

if you want to have a bidet, get a gfci outlet installed next to your toilet so you dont have to run an extension across your vanity

[Gumby]

If I were building a new house, I would want the following:

- An actual foyer area, not just opening up into the living room like so many new houses are now

- the washroom on the main floor that does not open into a public space like the dining table or family room, I don't want someone taking a shit in the bathroom and then it open up into a public space. nor do I want to hear them, and I also feel it's embarrassing to do your business next to a public area like that.

- I would like an actual covered outdoor space or prep it for an outdoor space. I know this takes away from inside square footage, but it's nice to have a covered outdoor space. Roof top patio's are useless, I wouldn't even bother with that.

- Make sure laundry is on the same floor as the bedrooms

- Double Ethernet cables in every room of the house with a dedicated server room under the stairs or something

- An oversized front and back door, it just makes moving things in and out so much easier. Not a double door because it's not functional on a day to day basis, having a big single door is the way to go.

- For the master washroom, put in a separate closed area for the toilet. When you or your wife drops a poop, there's no need to stink up the entire washroom. For me personally, I would want my own master washroom, my wife is messy AF and her hair goes everywhere. Having two ensuites seems stupid though.

- depends on how huge your house is, but I've always liked the idea of a double island, but most houses in Vancouver are too small for this.

- If space allows, having two dishwashers is amazing for a family and for people who cook regularly. If I had the space, I would have two full sinks in my kitchen. Having a wok kitchen solves this issue also.
Great list! If you lot isn't that big, then there are so many features you have to weigh against each other cuz you probably can't fit them all in. :(

For my wife and I, the "washroom on the main floor that does not open into a public space" was huge.

[Hondaracer]

Other than being cheap, I guess reusing cat cable isn't a big deal is it?

My IT friend always told me to run two cat cables as the labour is the same, you just pay more for the cable, but if one cable dies you always have a back up.

I did this during my reno and I'm so glad I did. I didn't know so many things could run off Ethernet. POE cameras, displays, door bells, etc.

A box of cat 5e is like.. $250?

My point was just that, if you’re pulling used cables through the walls to save money, what else are you “saving” on because that’s like the cheapest shit you could possible buy in building a home lol

[bcrdukes]

I'm trying to understand if you're telling us if people are asking their builders to pull used cable, or if buddy guy builders are pulling used cable when customer/client asks for new cable.

There's nothing wrong with pulling used cable as long as you know where it's from, its condition, and that it works end to end but I find it unethical if you are pulling used cable and charging your customers for a roll of new cable and using it for another job.

If it were up to me, I'd pull new cable only.

[Hondaracer]

There’s no scenario where you should be using used cable.

[GLOW]

if you want to have a bidet, get a gfci outlet installed next to your toilet so you dont have to run an extension across your vanity

might as well get one with usb ports on there too so while you're taking a dump and warming your ass with nice warm water you can stay charged watching netflix like a king :fullofwin:

LV cable IMO has pretty narrow insulation, it's not like pulling building wire, ripping it out, 1 nick can easily damage continuity, so i wouldn't even want used if it passed a continuity check at the time it's installed, but that's just me.

do people still pull cat5e for new? i would have figured the industry just does cat6 by now... i assume the cost premium of cat6 isn't much by now?

[Hondaracer]

It’s quite a bit more than 5e. I never once went into any brand new home in Van/bby that pulled 6 everywhere

Low voltage stuff, as manic said, is always super neglected unless you’re actively using a proper low voltage contractor or B) you’re a high end builder who is installing control 4 type automation etc.

So many brand new homes have worse low voltage wiring than my 100 year old home where I pulled cables through my chimney etc. I have more coverage than some BRAND NEW duplexes I went into in bby and van lol, it’s pathetic.

[PeanutButter]

Cat5e can't do gigabit though. So cat 6 should be the minimim

[underscore]

5e can handle gigabit pretty easily, but it's under $200 for 1000ft of 6 from PrimeCables so you may as well use that for a new build. Make sure they're buying solid core for the in wall stuff like they're supposed to. Just don't try to use any extra to make patch cables. In wall = solid, out of wall = stranded.

if you want to have a bidet, get a gfci outlet installed next to your toilet so you dont have to run an extension across your vanity

You can run other outlets off the one GFCI (or get a GFCI breaker) so you may as well have an outlet added there even if you don't want a bidet atm because it won't cost much.

[Hondaracer]

Yea like these people pulling cables wouldn’t even know what solid core cables are lol, but you’re 1000% right.

[jing]

Wholesale cost differential between riser 5E and 6 is about 30-50% depending on brand. 6E is not an officially recognized standard.

Trunk slammers are a dime a dozen in the industry unfortunately. Not many out there are willing to pay for quality work especially in spec homes. I worked on one project a few years back where the homeowner thought he only needed minimal (<5) data cables in his 3000sqft house because "everything is wireless nowadays".

[underscore]

Yeah that too, the average person has no clue what the different cable standards are or even uses many hardwired things these days. But for those of us that do it's essential.

[SSM_DC5]

As the project progresses to installing low voltage, the convo will go a little something like this.
GC: low voltage is gonna be pulled on Monday.
You: it'll be cat 6 right?
GC: you want cat 6?! I quoted for cat 5. If you want cat 6, it'll be extra charge.
You: how much extra
GC: 20k
You: :pokerface:

[twitchyzero]

i haven't heard some of these terms for 20 years lol

are the very best custom wifi mesh system for a fraction the cost still inadequate for everything but the most mission critical tasks with zero packet loss like remote surgery or landing a rocket?

[radeonboy]

i haven't heard some of these terms for 20 years lol

are the very best custom wifi mesh system for a fraction the cost still inadequate for everything but the most mission critical tasks with zero packet loss like remote surgery or landing a rocket?

Someone with better technical knowledge can probably explain this better, but my understanding with wireless mesh systems is that they don't have the same reliability as a solution with a wired backhaul like we're talking about here. Factors such as:

Size of Home
Signal Interference (# of walls, material behind walls, distance from source, # of devices in area)
Network Hardware (cheaper units may not have dedicated frequencies for wireless backhaul which result in reduced internet speeds from one of the mesh nodes)

all affect the reliability and speed of the system. A wired backhaul limits the affect or eliminates many these factors - something that is especially useful in a larger home. Wireless mesh systems also don't address those wanting to use PoE devices like cameras, doorbells, and other devices.

[EvoFire]

Call me old fashioned, I'd go wired if that's an option. My TV is connected via cat because when we reno'ed we had the ability to pull two wires to where the TV is. The other cat ended going into a weefee extender.

[Hondaracer]

I’m no network tech but worked with Telus’s garb hardware for long enough to realize pretty quickly that wireless mesh networks are garbage, and most people’s “smart” devices are not smart enough to distinguish between multiple AP’s. Hardware like gaming consoles etc. almost always seem to revert to the primary wired AP.

Until Wifi 6e or whatever the new standard is widely adopted across all hardware, which will probably never happen, I don’t see it being a seemless wireless experience.

Peoples issues I resolved as a technician were almost ALWAYS caused by wireless issues. The solution? Almost 100% of the time was to hardwire components or AP’s

[underscore]

i haven't heard some of these terms for 20 years lol

are the very best custom wifi mesh system for a fraction the cost still inadequate for everything but the most mission critical tasks with zero packet loss like remote surgery or landing a rocket?

I haven't priced out a mesh network but I have a hard time believing it's a fraction of the cost of wired. I also highly doubt it'll have the same performance or longevity. I spent maybe a couple hundred bucks on wire and jacks and I've got a dead simple gigabit connection that's good for 20+ years.

[twitchyzero]

since discussion is on new build i assume we're including labour costs too

once a new standard is more mainstream you can also upgrade easily, where it's a lot of work to re-do cable

now that standards are less incremental i suppose it's less of an issue as tech matures

I’m no network tech but worked with Telus’s garb hardware for long enough to realize pretty quickly that wireless mesh networks are garbage, and most people’s “smart” devices are not smart enough to distinguish between multiple AP’s.

ISP hardware can be quite problematic

but yeah to reach my garage i had to manually set the opener to connect to the closest AP

[Hondaracer]

Yea, while it’s fairly simple guiding certain devices to specific AP’s is over most people’s heads, even if they have guidance or a YouTube video

[underscore]

since discussion is on new build i assume we're including labour costs too

Surely the labour costs are pretty minimal? I ran 5e and coax to 6 rooms in my parents place and it only took a couple hours. With zero drywall it'd be even easier. What're you guys being quoted?

once a new standard is more mainstream you can also upgrade easily, where it's a lot of work to re-do cable

You'd need to redo the cable less often than you'd need to upgrade the rest of your hardware because it's capable of so much more to begin with. Most people aren't even going to be maxing out 20 year old 5e yet.

[GLOW]

Call me old fashioned, I'd go wired if that's an option. My TV is connected via cat because when we reno'ed we had the ability to pull two wires to where the TV is. The other cat ended going into a weefee extender.

i think if you talk to any hardcore online gamer, hardwired or bust. i lost a tenant once b/c of this :lol

for casual gamers like myself no biggie, but damn if i get d/c'd on a competitive ranked game :yuno:

[EvoFire]

i think if you talk to any hardcore online gamer, hardwired or bust. i lost a tenant once b/c of this :lol

for casual gamers like myself no biggie, but damn if i get d/c'd on a competitive ranked game :yuno:

Getting DC around here is more Telus's fault than anything. With WiFi it's more the momentary lag spike because some one is running the microwave :pokerface:

[jcmaz]

If I were designing a custom home, I'd pipe all of my LV runs in PVC to a central data/server room. I'd also add additional pipe runs for speaker wiring and HDMI wiring as well. I would aim for two 200A panels (for in-floor heating, multiple EV chargers, and rental suit) and subpanels in each "zone" of the house for future additions.

I would add valved/zone ducting HVAC for gas furnace and electric AC unit for optimal temperature control. All the thermostats would be piped as well :) I want gas stoves, and gas outlets for outdoor BBQ and fires.

I don't know how it would be built, but I would want to use concrete for the entire house. Metal studs would be offset for maximum sound proofing with proper insulation. Double drywall would be used.

[PeanutButter]

Just curious why you prefer metal studs? Aren't wood studs easier to work with and don't they have better strength when you drill into them to hang things?

[jcmaz]

Technically you can support more weight with metal studs. Usually steel stud framing is used with concrete builds

[hud 91gt]

Steel studs are such a pita when your trying the hang shit from the walls.


When wood was crazy during Covid, it was actually pretty even to go for a concrete build vs wood construction in a residential home build. Coming from a high up Bosa guy who owned a lot down the street. Would have been neat, but now wood is cheap again. Lol

[twitchyzero]

do steel studs hold up better or worse in earthquake?

[6793026]

I'm doing a build now and lesson I've learned.

1) you get what you pay for. If the engineer is good, he/she will discuss material being used as well as how cabinets, doors and trims being done.

2) Office + bedroom wiring. having a plug at desk height + kitchen island and bedside table as well as vaccum was really good on our end to ensure we map out where we put out stuff

3) Your GC doesn't care. They care about efficiency and quality of work. It's your money. Don't always trust their quote.

4) Always have a backup of a backup and a backup budget... cause we of course went overbudget as my wife has "standards" LOL.
i just need a bed and a kitchen and a garage. who cares if anything matches. LOL

[Manic!]

If I were designing a custom home, I'd pipe all of my LV runs in PVC to a central data/server room. I'd also add additional pipe runs for speaker wiring and HDMI wiring as well. I would aim for two 200A panels (for in-floor heating, multiple EV chargers, and rental suit) and subpanels in each "zone" of the house for future additions.

I would add valved/zone ducting HVAC for gas furnace and electric AC unit for optimal temperature control. All the thermostats would be piped as well :) I want gas stoves, and gas outlets for outdoor BBQ and fires.

I don't know how it would be built, but I would want to use concrete for the entire house. Metal studs would be offset for maximum sound proofing with proper insulation. Double drywall would be used.

Run a rope in the pipe so you can pull a cable later on. Use smurf tube instead of pvc pipe so yo don't have sharp bends. https://carlonsales.com/flexplusblueent.php

Using concrete is going to cost way more like 2x the price of a wood frame.

[Hondaracer]

Running conduit of any sort from a central hub to each individual outlet is pretty much a pipe dream, pardon the pun.

Even flexible tubing etc. you’re not gonna be using a hole saw 300 times to cut your floor joists etc. so you can run conduit. The better idea is to use junctions and have 1-2 backup runs in each box.

I’m not even sure you could pull a new Ethernet run through a 50 foot 2” conduit that had 2-3 90’s. It would be VERY stiff

[Manic!]

I would not run smurf tube for speaker wire or Ethernet because speaker wire has never changed and cat6e will be good for 25 years plus but I would run it for HDMI. The HDMI spec has changed multiple times in the last 10 years.

[SSM_DC5]

I'm doing a build now and lesson I've learned.

1) you get what you pay for. If the engineer is good, he/she will discuss material being used as well as how cabinets, doors and trims being done.

2) Office + bedroom wiring. having a plug at desk height + kitchen island and bedside table as well as vaccum was really good on our end to ensure we map out where we put out stuff

3) Your GC doesn't care. They care about efficiency and quality of work. It's your money. Don't always trust their quote.

4) Always have a backup of a backup and a backup budget... cause we of course went overbudget as my wife has "standards" LOL.
i just need a bed and a kitchen and a garage. who cares if anything matches. LOL

Your engineer cares about the trims + cabinet materials? I would have imagined that up to the GC and the sub they hire, but I haven't come across any GC that will go that details to tell you ahead of time what the materials will be during the estimate stage. Bid low, win the job and tell the customer later that they quoted for the bottom of the barrel material and the actual material you want is a surcharge.

Running conduit of any sort from a central hub to each individual outlet is pretty much a pipe dream, pardon the pun.

Even flexible tubing etc. you’re not gonna be using a hole saw 300 times to cut your floor joists etc. so you can run conduit. The better idea is to use junctions and have 1-2 backup runs in each box.

I’m not even sure you could pull a new Ethernet run through a 50 foot 2” conduit that had 2-3 90’s. It would be VERY stiff

What if he built a chute of some sort at the corner of the house or within the fireplace area that reaches roof to basement, then in between each floor do a drop ceiling and run everything through that? turning your joists into swiss cheese to run extra conduit and wiring may not be the greatest idea if you take structural integrity and labour hours into consideration. Using a milwaukee holehawg is pretty sweet, but not when the worker needs to keep climbing up and down ladders to accommodate people's desire for 12 foot ceilings everywhere. With central AC and requirements for large ducting, are drop ceilings more common than cutting joists now?

[Hondaracer]

Very few new builds seem to use a drop ceiling g anymore but yea, that obviously adds a lot of flexibility. What you’re talking about is what I did, I actually used our old chimney to pull a bunch of runs up through from basement to attic.

A great trick I learned for pulling new cables etc. is using the old cable as the pull through, so like hdmi etc. cut the ends off the old hdmi, tape the new hdmi to the end of the old one, and use the old one to pull the new one through, also might as well tape a new pull string to the new HDMI while you’re at it

[blkgsr]

hot and cold water to exterior hose bibs, or at least one with a mixing valve in the garage

[Hehe]

I have been working on a design plan to re-build/major reno my place.

Here is the few things that I would recommend:

1. If you are going custom, the idea is to get everything *you* want. Don't worry too much about resale down the road. Assuming you are going to stay in there for a few decades, whatever crazy plan you come up with would affect little in term of resale value in the long term.

2. Plan ahead. Think not just about the things you want/need. But also what's going to be in the future. Wiring for Ethernet, for example, just get the Cat6. The cost difference is marginal in the grand scheme of things. And go as far as you can afford in term of everything from faucet/pipes to plugs. It's a lot cheaper to do things when you have everything wide open. One of the custom-built a buddy worked on gave me a lot of inspiration. The owner wired the crap out of the place and left panels where he'd have easy access for things like in-wall HDMI cable and whatnot. Done properly (as in design stage), it should not cost a whole lot more other than cost of panels or whatever cosmetic to hide those things out of sight. One of the very clever thing he did also was to mark everything where they are in a PDF before the drywall were put on. He went as far as all the studs. So much so that as long as he's got a tape measure in hand, he doesn't even need a stud-finder.

3. If there's any preference, find an appropriate contractor. Say if you want a concrete/steel beam build, talk to contractors/designers who has experience with them to price properly. Very often we hear that x is more expensive than y... it's really because they can't find the proper people to do them. In the house mentioned above, he's got a few steel beams to hold the structure on all 3 floors. And because those beams can hold so much more weight, the final price actually wasn't all that much different.

4. Coming back to the "plan ahead" thing... some stuff might be cheaper at first, but since it's going to be a complete new-build, there are many things that make more sense to just put in from the get-go. Things like passive housing. You don't need to go all out to meet enough to have it certified as such since that's $$$, but just some elements, like a very high insulation can start payback very early given it's a new build. Also someone already mentioned... get more than enough on things like power. 2x200amp service is not a whole lot more than 1x200amp service if you are doing new build. But the possibility that such a decision opens up down the road can be priceless.

One of my neighbors built an enormous house (12000sqft) a few house down from us, and the one thing that he regrets was to cheap out on his insulation and HVAC. It costs less for him on paper... but now it costs him over $2500 a month to heat the place and it's not all that comfortable. Sure he could afford paying $2k+ a month on heating bills, but compared to his in-law's place, who was built with high insulation and a geothermal system... pays less than half for heating/cooling for a similar size home out in Chilliwack, which tends to be colder/hotter than us and it's actually comfortable throughout the house.

[Hondaracer]

“Finding the appropriate contractor” is easier said than done

High end builders aren’t going to build a sub 10 million dollar home unless you’re best friends with the builder. They don’t want the headache or hassle of dealing with small time clients who nickel and dime everything. Hence the reason why almost every build now is buddy guy or Chinese builders.

[donk.]

I can picture it now:

RabidRat to his GC: "So i was talking to some guys on a car forum about my house build and i think that........"
GC "oh fuck not another one"

[Hehe]

I can picture it now:

RabidRat to his GC: "So i was talking to some guys on a car forum about my house build and i think that........"
GC "oh fuck not another one"

That's exactly the thing... most builders are doing what they are comfortable with.

If a builder has done wood framing all his life, he's not going to price a steel/concrete build appropriately. He either won't do it or price it into the stratosphere because he's just going to go with a high figure and make sure he can get it done while making money and just sub-out whatever the work is.

The idea is that, if you are building a steel/concrete home, find a builder that had a lot of experience building those specific type of house.

Same thing goes for things like HVAC. My dad recently installed a geothermal system at his place. When I started doing quotes for him... prices were all over. They were as high as 100k and starts at 80k using a mediocre system.

I then found a HVAC guy who had been doing geothermal pretty much exclusively. He priced out everything using the best hardware available in Canada for every piece of equipment in the equation... from the geothermal heat pump itself to the fan coil that retrofits the system. 100% state of the art. Going as far as replacing our pool heater using the same system and a new DHW... all for less than any quote that I had before.

[unit]

from my experience you really have to be involved with so many small details or else don't expect it to turn out your way. you can trust the gc all you want but even if he's a good one, he will do things the proper way but not necessarily the way you want them to be done. the moment you go autopilot on the construction, especially with the stuff you see like finishings, is when things get done differently than the way you want. when you ask them to change it then you have to pay for those changes.

[underscore]

You have to watch them even on bigger stuff. When my parents had a place built they built the staircase completely the wrong way around. They were checking on it a lot because they were able to, so it was still just framing when they pointed it out, but if they weren't able to be doing that it would've been a big pain.

[6793026]

^ at least your parents knew what's right and whats wrong. cause a normal perosn won't know at all.

[TypeRNammer]

from my experience you really have to be involved with so many small details or else don't expect it to turn out your way. you can trust the gc all you want but even if he's a good one, he will do things the proper way but not necessarily the way you want them to be done. the moment you go autopilot on the construction, especially with the stuff you see like finishings, is when things get done differently than the way you want. when you ask them to change it then you have to pay for those changes.

Also another good thing to note is make sure the home is nicely sealed and tight.

Being in my laneway for my first winter, my main door and bi folding patio door has a cold draft blowing into the home :fuuuuu:

And another cold draft is coming through the dish washer and bottom corner cabinetry :fulloffuck:

Upstairs sliding balcony doors had drafts coming in too but they've been fixed.

Definitely gonna give the GC an earful to rectify the situation.

[SSM_DC5]

No blow test was required for the build?