[J____]

Is anyone looking to get this car? What are the chances of getting one withing the first 1/2 year haha

[red kryptonite]

too late, i dont think any dealers are accepting deposits. might be able to grab one with a markup or from a flipper

[noclue]

Are flipping cars still a thing? I see G-wagons, 911, C8 corvettes all starting to rot in inventory

[Harvey Specter]

No chance to get one. I was told if I want to lease and can wait 2 years+ I might get the chance to get allocation. I'm buying the GX550 instead, still a year+ wait.

[J____]

Dang, need a new car and was pretty set on the LC. No dealerships were taking deposits for the last few months

[SkinnyPupp]

Make a new car thread without pics? :seriously:

[jcmaz]

I heard 2 year wait as well. I would get one of the last 4Runners in the meantime if you needed a car asap

[underscore]

Make a new car thread without pics? :seriously:

Consider it a throwback to the 56k no way days.

[CorneringArtist]

Leveraged a sales connection with a guy I used to work with and he queued me in. I doubt I'll be first in line, but they're one of the ones not taking deposits. Talked to him three days after the release presser.

I'm looking for poverty spec or FE anyways, I prefer the round headlights and no sunroof so the ballers can have the bar headlight allocations.

[Badhobz]

Dang, need a new car and was pretty set on the LC. No dealerships were taking deposits for the last few months

What ?!?! Did you say…… LC ?!?!?!? :yuno:ResidentSleeper

You buy LC!!!!!

[CorneringArtist]

Dealer I got in line with told me to pick a colour and trim. The order guide for Canada got floated around the LC forums, and I was sent a copy as well.

Going 1958 edition in Brown Sugar Metallic, which is supposedly the initial Meteor Shower in the press releases.

[RabidRat]

Ahh that's sad that you can't get Heritage Blue w/ color-matched roof :(

https://i.imgur.com/IwZ0gSD.png

https://i.imgur.com/dgIxuzK.png

[tiger_handheld]

Pics: https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts/2024-toyota-land-cruiser-back-roots-lower-price-boxy-body

[CorneringArtist]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46868011/2024-toyota-land-cruiser-price/

Looks like 57k USD is the round headlight, 61k for the bar headlight, and 75k for FE.

Thoughts on this starting at 65k CAD, or are we staring at 70k+? I'm shooting low because of the 86k floor on the GX550.

[68style]

A LOT of people are gonna walk away from this, they put their name and deposit down because they're excited, but when they see 7.5% financing they'll nope tf out so fast, I think you won't have much trouble getting your allocation lol

[CorneringArtist]

A LOT of people are gonna walk away from this, they put their name and deposit down because they're excited, but when they see 7.5% financing they'll nope tf out so fast, I think you won't have much trouble getting your allocation lol

I'm walking if this shit starts at 75k. I can stomach less even with the rates, but not at that price lmao.

At that point I'll either wait for the 4runner or do something else entirely.

[68style]

That's well into luxury tax bracket range too isn't it?

[CorneringArtist]

I didn't even think about that. The PST is 10%, but it's not like most cars are in that wheelhouse now anyways.

[twitchyzero]

23mpg combined from a 4cyl hybrid?!

i fail to see the appeal over the lexus when the price delta gets you more towing, KDSS, xtra turbo and xtra 2 cyl's

how does it stack up against the new taco? and is the new runner cheaper or more?

https://static1.topspeedimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/mugrz2e3.jpeg

[Harvey Specter]

$75k+ for a Toyota, ffs.

[RabidRat]

23mpg?! Didn't they say it was going to be 26?

[Badhobz]

$75k+ for a Toyota, ffs.

what? thats cheap! 35k for a base civic LX nowadays.

[Hondaracer]

wtf is with Toyotas 7%+ financing?

Like they think the Toyota brand is enough alone to justify these rates? Paying 75k at 7% for fucking plastic interior peices based on 20 year old models sounds like a Ferrari type level of insanity lol.

[68style]

Hey now, be fair... it drops to 6.6% if you agree to pay within 3 years :D

[radeonboy]

I don't recall Toyota's interest rates being competitive for anything that sold well, especially for a new model.

[Badhobz]

Yeah you can do a 8.9% lease on a GR ratrolla or the v8 ratrolla. 6.6 seems downright cheap.

[68style]

The new Lexus GX, you can push the rate as high as 8.12% on a 84 month... yikes

[Harvey Specter]

I think the new GX is overpriced as well. I understand that the GX and LC are purpose-built off-roaders, but realistically, who in the heck is going to be trashing these SUVs off-road? The GX is well over $100k+ and the LC in Canada will likely be pushing $85k'ish. Way too much money.

[RabidRat]

Similar argument on why people spend well over $100k on a 911 when they'll never trash them on the track.

It's aspirational. These people want to feel like they could, even if they wouldn't.

The real off-road / track trashing will still happen. Just, later when the vehicle rides the depreciation curve down far enough that the owner (whether original, 2nd, or 3rd owner even) could afford the risk of writing it off.

It's the cycle of [car] life.

[teggy604]

It's called "Luxury off-roading." That is what Lexus calls it. Another fancy term for mall crawling. Just like the older GX460, it will see pavement for the first part of its life and then 10 years down the line, enthusiast will buy it for off-roading.

[Badhobz]

I think the new GX is overpriced as well. I understand that the GX and LC are purpose-built off-roaders, but realistically, who in the heck is going to be trashing these SUVs off-road? The GX is well over $100k+ and the LC in Canada will likely be pushing $85k'ish. Way too much money.

wah? my ratrolla can go offroad!? OKAY!

If you want over priced and hilarious, why not just get an LX. THIS THING IS BEAST.... i really want one. I think i might replace the wife's RX with this thing.

https://i.postimg.cc/zG5SphsY/IMG-5416.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/NMy1LkHm/IMG-5436.jpg

Slight problem though: in this 4 seat configuration i can barely sit behind myself at 6'2. And even in the most forward position, there isnt enough leg room for me to stretch out like in a Lexus LM

https://i.postimg.cc/rwJGHmT0/IMG-5430.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Bvn5f0Zh/IMG-5446.jpg
The trunk space is also a friggin joke for a vehicle this size. Might need to see how much that century SUV is gonna be because this doesnt cut it for usable space given how large the vehicle is.
https://i.postimg.cc/zf2CJcVq/IMG-5444.jpg

[radeonboy]

^Nice to see Lexus got rid of those side-folding 3rd row seats. What do you need to haul that requires more space than that anyway?

[Badhobz]

Nothing, but you would figure a vehicle in this price category would be more flexible and accommodating to passenger space. The rear seats have a limited amount of motion (forward and back) due to the way they designed it not to travel past the rear wheel well.

That makes it super tight for people over 6' and no way you can lounge like this midget shown here (even with the front seat all the way forward. For reference, the pic i took of the rear seats, the passenger front was already moved to the most frontal position, and that driver positon was adjusted for me at 6'2)
https://d1xf6r3lok2i2q.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/14084525/lexus-2023-lx-600-executive-vip-interior-caramel-sunset-rear-seat-l.jpeg

[EvoFire]

If you sit in a S class or 7 series, you'll realize the back seat room isn't as amazing as they make it out to be. I got picked up from Munich airport by a 750iL because of the perks of Euro Delivery, it barely held all our luggage and my backpack had to go in the back seat with me. It was real disappointing.

[twitchyzero]

im guessing most back seats arent for 6'+ on long road trips
certainly not tilted backwards like that

[radeonboy]

Nothing, but you would figure a vehicle in this price category would be more flexible and accommodating to passenger space. The rear seats have a limited amount of motion (forward and back) due to the way they designed it not to travel past the rear wheel well.

I get where your expectations are coming from since the LX is the flagship Lexus SUV, but more space was never a priority for the LX. IIRC the engineers kept the wheelbase the same as last-gen since it was optimal for offroading, and the BoF design doesn't help either.

Outside of something like a Cullinan, who offers a comfortable and luxurious second-row seat in an SUV in North America? The captain's chairs in a GLS / X7 aren't better than the Lexus from my experience.

What you're describing sounds more like something a luxury minivan like a Zeekr 009 can answer, though none are available here.
https://i.ibb.co/BrxD586/Zeekr-009-Seat.jpg

[Badhobz]

I still think it works for us though. I can imagine it.

Me driving.
Spy balloon lounging in the back lying almost flat. Her sassy girlfriend beside her and the chihuahuas upfront. Or in the back with some big ass dog cushions.

Not sure about the value proposition at 160k (yarg!)

Not like we would ever take it off roading. The departure angles look like shit and likey will smash it to pieces. Also it looks like if you ever get into any sort of a fender bender it’ll cost a gazillion dollars as there is literally no front or rear bumper.

https://i.postimg.cc/FFM9RYs2/IMG-5422.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/kg9qQLSs/IMG-5423.jpg

Oh if they sold the Lexus LM here I’d totally buy it.

[underscore]

The dimensions of lots of modern vehicles make no sense to me. They keep adding more space around the engine even though engines aren't getting any bigger, but then it looks like Hobz has about as much space in the drivers seat as I have in my tiny Celica and the rear is about the same as my wifes Rav. So you've got to deal with that extra bulk for no benefit in cabin space? No thanks.

[noclue]

Seems the economy slowing or high interest rates is taking shape considering the fact that this LX is sitting on the lot unsold when 2 years ago there was a massive waitlist or dealer fees. Though out east these still get stolen to export to africa/middle east

[roastpuff]

The dimensions of lots of modern vehicles make no sense to me. They keep adding more space around the engine even though engines aren't getting any bigger, but then it looks like Hobz has about as much space in the drivers seat as I have in my tiny Celica and the rear is about the same as my wifes Rav. So you've got to deal with that extra bulk for no benefit in cabin space? No thanks.

The engine bays keep getting bigger to accommodate the ancillary stuff especially with 48v hybrids and the like, and also to provide more crumple zone for crash/pedestrian safety.

[Hondaracer]

Yea like it’s comical a vehicle that big from the outside can look so small inside. I’m sure Hobz ain’t a giant and that driver seat looks tight af.

No matter how much “luxury” you’re surrounded by if you’re squeezed into a little cockpit type seat I feel like it’s stifling as the driver. That’s why newer half ton pickups are so nice because it feels like two people could almost sit in the front seats, you’ve got room to stretch out and move around

Also outside the front end, as is typical with all these full sized SUV’s it looks like a mini van from every other angle.

[RabidRat]

The engine bays keep getting bigger to accommodate the ancillary stuff especially with 48v hybrids and the like, and also to provide more crumple zone for crash/pedestrian safety.

I don't know if that fully explains it.

Take the Toyota Sienna for instance.

https://i.imgur.com/BhSNmoc.png

Or the Prius:

https://i.imgur.com/bJRK0kk.png

Both are vehicles that Toyota designed with a target customer in mind. The "function first. i don't give a fk what it looks like, just get me maximum utility." Both are full-on hybrids, packaging both an ICE & multiple electric motors. And they get excellent crash test results too.

Now, take a look at the Rivian R1T:

https://i.imgur.com/qj1uJ1n.png

That is one chunky front-end.

https://i.imgur.com/uvu4KUY.png

But look at the gaping void of nothingness inside of that front-end.

I don't doubt that they make use of that space for crumple zone. But you're telling me it was impossible for them to pull a Sienna / Prius? Are we certain that there was really no way, or was some of this about aesthetic appeal and marketability?

And whose fault is this? Ours! We did this! We're voting with our money. If we would stop buying cars with frivolously large front-ends, we would get a lot of interior space back. And better handling too!

And whose fault is it that there are no more manuals? Ours! We're not buying enough of them. These car companies are businesses: they're out to make money.

Long story short, we should all be out there buying manual minivans.

[underscore]

The engine bays keep getting bigger to accommodate the ancillary stuff especially with 48v hybrids and the like, and also to provide more crumple zone for crash/pedestrian safety.

For those that actually have that stuff, sure, but things like my FILs Ram truck have just a gas engine, the same 5.7L V8 they've been putting in the last 3 gens of Grand Cherokee, which is way smaller up front.

[twitchyzero]

im on the other end of the spectrum, compact works for me

4 doors and wheelbase just a bit over 100"? can park it into the garage for ants

also like the snug feeling interior of the miata, the cat hump on the passenger side though :fuckthatshit:

[Harvey Specter]

Vancouver Auto Show will have both the LC and GX550 on display.

[Tr1ll]

https://media.toyota.ca/en/releases/2024/toyota-canada-announces-pricing-for-all-new-2024-toyota-land-cru.html

Starts at MSRP $69,290 yikes

[underscore]

Now to add exactly $130 of accessories.

[radeonboy]

Now to add exactly $130 of accessories.

Lol that was my first thought as well.

The pricing doesn't surprise me given new Lexus GX and current 4Runner pricing. People were already spending mid-60s for a 4Runner TRD Pro so this is not big jump from that.

[CorneringArtist]

Just under my ceiling LMAO. Think I might just go for it considering where the 4R peaks and the high odds that the 4R will take a lifetime for an allocation.

[RabidRat]

In the US it starts at $55,950 USD which is $76,000 CAD!

So it's kind of a great deal! :D.

[teggy604]

Name is iconic, but $80K off the lot for a no frills LC is kinda steep.

[Harvey Specter]

I can't imagine Toyota dealers having a 3+ waiting list, as they're claiming, at this price and with lease/finance rates at 7%+.

[68style]

Well, it's a Cybertruck-like situation with slightly more invested... you got hundreds of people who were willing to slap $500 on their credit card for a fully refundable deposit... how many will actually go through with the purchase? Probably very few.

[EvoFire]

^ It's Vancouver afterall. There are 3 older Lexus LX in around my area, the ones that look like a LC with Lexus badges, all three are the same colour and they do zero offroading, driven by grannies and grandpas. They will buy these up because it's what they are used to driving and they trust that it'll last forever.

Don't bother trying to buy those cars from the grannies though as the driveline has seen zero maintenance. I had to help one get unstuck last winter. AWD system won't engage, center lock obviously won't turn on then, rear locker won't engage either. Took me awhile to finally get them out.

[teggy604]

Well, it's a Cybertruck-like situation with slightly more invested... you got hundreds of people who were willing to slap $500 on their credit card for a fully refundable deposit... how many will actually go through with the purchase? Probably very few.

I was going to say the same thing. lol. And you got the people just trying to flip their spot for cash.

[Harvey Specter]

No doubt, the early allocations might command overs, but at prices like this in the current market, I doubt dealers will have the 3 year waitlists they're claiming to have.

https://iili.io/JM76Ts2.png

[twitchyzero]

someone gonna pay 100k for a 4banger again like it's 2021?

there's little point getting excited for spicy toyotas anymore, look at how dealers ruined the gr corolla appeal

[Alpine]

The Toyota cult will buy the limited number that Toyota will bring to Canada. Hell, people are paying 60k+ for primes and 70k for bz4x’s.

[68style]

But they're not tho? Openroad Richmond for example has like 2 entire pages on their website of BZ4X sitting on their new car inventory.

[Harvey Specter]

^Bunch of them listed on AT as well.

[punkwax]

Now to add exactly $130 of accessories.

Nice.

[jaaagman]

But they're not tho? Openroad Richmond for example has like 2 entire pages on their website of BZ4X sitting on their new car inventory.

I would be shocked if they were BZ4x's at above MSRP. Local dealers have a ton of inventory, and they seem to be advertising them quite aggressively as well. Tons of Ariya's listed on Autotrader as well. They would need to discount them to make it even make it worthwhile to consider...

[The Producer]

Throttle House boys take the truck out to the dunes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDcOOoDqcto

[dark0821]

this is my biggest fear, just because i have shallow pockets lololol....


trying to be careful (defn not hooning it) and yet one slip up towards the end probably cost $$$$ if it was your own vehicle...


dang lolol, off roading more costly than track days?

[EvoFire]

Throttle House boys take the truck out to the dunes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDcOOoDqcto

I watched the video, and it made me realize that suddenly the Toyota NA lineup is really crowded. The Land Cruiser looks great in either round or square lights, but it's in reality a Prado. The 4R and the LC are also going to be quite close in price and there's some overlap in capabilities.

this is my biggest fear, just because i have shallow pockets lololol....


trying to be careful (defn not hooning it) and yet one slip up towards the end probably cost $$$$ if it was your own vehicle...


dang lolol, off roading more costly than track days?

It's gonna cost you either ways if you do the dumb. Extraction is UBER expensive if you fuck up in the middle of nowhere and can't pull out. Also why it's not recommended to go by yourself ever.

[twitchyzero]

til you could crack radiator on sand

damn the fancy launch editions dont have front bashplate?

[underscore]

It's gonna cost you either ways if you do the dumb. Extraction is UBER expensive if you fuck up in the middle of nowhere and can't pull out. Also why it's not recommended to go by yourself ever.

Yeah if you end up needing something like helo extraction it's crazy expensive, I want to say it was something like $15k for a guy in BC a few years ago. That's part of why I think offroading should be done with cheap vehicles unless you have really deep pockets.

[EvoFire]

Yeah if you end up needing something like helo extraction it's crazy expensive, I want to say it was something like $15k for a guy in BC a few years ago. That's part of why I think offroading should be done with cheap vehicles unless you have really deep pockets.

One of the guys here (forgot his username) offroads his Jeep GC. He said he traded for an older one because it won't hurt if he has to ditch it. Sounds like if you need to ditch a vehicle, there's a good chance it'll get vandalized, nevermind the damage from putting a wheel wrong.

[underscore]

That's me. I've got a little more into it now but there's still no scenario where damaging it would cause me financial hardship. I wouldn't be able to say the same if I was one of those guys with $100k into a Wrangler that's really owned by the bank.

As far as ditching it goes if you're somewhere really out of the way you might be fine. If you're in the more well traveled areas the odds of your vehicle not being trashed are hit and miss. A little while ago a buddy of mine had to leave his truck overnight and his wheels got stolen.

[EvoFire]

That's me. I've got a little more into it now but there's still no scenario where damaging it would cause me financial hardship. I wouldn't be able to say the same if I was one of those guys with $100k into a Wrangler that's really owned by the bank.

As far as ditching it goes if you're somewhere really out of the way you might be fine. If you're in the more well traveled areas the odds of your vehicle not being trashed are hit and miss. A little while ago a buddy of mine had to leave his truck overnight and his wheels got stolen.

:pokerface:

Haha that's embarrassing.... I'll walk away now don't follow me.

[headhunt3r]

I wonder if the crew used a bottle of those stop leak products to get it to stop leaking. Otherwise, I don't know how they didn't overheat.

[yray]

The land rover group had a new defender get stuck on top of a mountain in the interior. It was left there for a week until a local land rover shop owner took off the steering rack and took it to kelowna to get welded and then jb welded the oil pan back and drove the truck to a major fsr to get towed. Of course JLR denied the warranty claim but they did tow it back to town lol.

tbh, older trucks are easier to fix and MacGyver something back to civilization.

[Dbone]

til you could crack radiator on sand

damn the fancy launch editions dont have front bashplate?

To be fair, front skid plates aren't always a good idea. I had a defender totally geared up for my overland trip in Africa (6 months on the "road") and the outfitters said they would be happy to sell us one, but that we shouldn't put one on unless we are doing some rock crawling. The extra weight isn't helpful, but more importantly if you get stuck in deep sand/mud the first thing you do is backup. A skid plate can just plow in when you backup and then you're really fucked.

We had diff guards, but no skid plate in the end.

Also, the aluminum ones that come OEM are usually the worst of both worlds. They won't take a big hit, and will plow into the mud. At least, that's what I've heard.

[twitchyzero]

ugh and mine rattles under hard accel and cold mornings, been too lazy to wedge a spacer

it probably paid for itself though seeing the big gouges

[radeonboy]

Anyone looking for a GX? Surprised they have one available this soon after launch.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1107075723833506

2024 Lexus GX 550 Luxury
NEW IN STOCK NOW

- MUST HAVE AN ATTRACTIVE VEHICLE TO TRADE
- LEASE / FINANCE PREFERRED
- MUST BE PICKED UP ASAP

Freight and PDI Included

Dealer & Factory Options EXTRA:
- Documentation Fee - New
$595.00
- Interior Treatment
$399.00
- Cargo Liner
$179.50
- Air Conditioning Tax
$100.00
- Advance Disposal Fee
$32.50

TOTAL CASH SALE PRICE BEFORE TAX:
$105,361

$395 Finance / Lease Fee EXTRA if Applicable

Mileage: <15 km

[Bender Unit]

*MUST HAVE AN ATTRACTIVE VEHICLE TO TRADE*

F--K OpenRoad

[Harvey Specter]

LMAO at dealers claiming 2 year waitlist and $1000 deposit just to get on the list. The interior treatment is BS, but it looks like there's no dealer markup. And I'm not surprised to see one listed; it's too expensive, and buyers at $100k+ thin out quickly when finance/lease rates are at 8.99%, and you don't have your typical cash buyers who would tap into LoCs when money was cheap. The car market, in general, is in a funk.

[68style]

I feel like Openroad has been working really hard since the pandemic to make sure they're known as the biggest asshole dealership group in the whole Lower Mainland. Fuck them and their elitest stipulations.

At least the Openroad Toyota parts department is nice.

[noclue]

There was a picture floating around the requirements Openroad wants if you buy a G-Wagen. Now G-wagens are sitting on the lots.

[yray]

I will trade in my 1994 range rover

[Harvey Specter]

There was a picture floating around the requirements Openroad wants if you buy a G-Wagen. Now G-wagens are sitting on the lots.

The GX will sit around as well. Some of these dealers are still stuck in 2021/22.

[twitchyzero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XdaccfMxn4

[Badhobz]

I feel like Openroad has been working really hard since the pandemic to make sure they're known as the biggest asshole dealership group in the whole Lower Mainland. Fuck them and their elitest stipulations.

At least the Openroad Toyota parts department is nice.

I feel the same. That’s why I was really happy with regency. Openroad Lexus sales isn’t playing ball. Their service department is still staffed with some cool dudes that I’ve known for 15+ years

[Manic!]

https://weissachineosgrenadier.com/

The Ineos Grenadier is around the same price I think. They have a dealer in van.

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/y2m3Bm/s1/ineos-grenadier-2022.webp

[jaaagman]

I feel like Openroad has been working really hard since the pandemic to make sure they're known as the biggest asshole dealership group in the whole Lower Mainland. Fuck them and their elitest stipulations.

At least the Openroad Toyota parts department is nice.

I heard of an instance where OpenRoad charged $300 for a screen protector. They have definitely gotten worse during the pandemic years.

[Badhobz]

https://jalopnik.com/toyota-finally-figured-out-why-its-twin-turbo-v6s-have-1851513186

So all these V35A twin Turbo v6's are being recalled. Ugh this is why i dislike toyota going turbocharging... you add complexity, and you get this.

"“with a specific V35A engine that contains crankshaft main bearings which allow the crankshaft to rotate within the engine assembly while running. During a specific production period, there is a possibility that engine machining debris of a particular size and amount may not have been cleared from the engine during manufacturing and subsequently contaminated the engine assembly during the production process.”

“...for these engines in the subject vehicles, the pressure on the main bearings due to the engine configuration is such that, if the aforementioned machining debris adheres to the bearings and operation of the engine continues at higher loads over time, failure of the bearings may occur. This can lead to potential engine knocking, engine rough running, engine no start and/or an engine stall. In the subject vehicles, an engine stall while driving leads to a loss of motive power."

[Dbone]

Almost all first year vehicles can have issues. It's not like turbos are new for Toyota. They aren't even new for the Land Cruiser if you take into account the diesel engines, which are also tough as nails.

[68style]

It didn't have much to do with the turbo's either... apparently a part of manufacturing process at a point in time where metal fragments were left inside the engine.

[Badhobz]

Aye true. Not directly related to the turbos but they probably had to redesign that engine in a way to accommodate the turbos / emission standards.

I’m still disappointed in Toyota

[jcmaz]

I heard of an instance where OpenRoad charged $300 for a screen protector. They have definitely gotten worse during the pandemic years.

Literally just met a guy who told me about the $299 screen protector for a Prius Prime

[Harvey Specter]

It's not as bad as the Lamborghini screen protector which is $600.

[BIC_BAWS]

Yeah but the cheapest Lambo is over 5x more than a Prius Prime at MSRP. That screen protector is on discount!

[EvoFire]

Saw one in Tswwassen yesterday. Looks good but a lot smaller than I thought. It doesn't look like a 90k truck. It's like a more sophisticated brother of the 4runner. It looks like absolutely nothing else on the road with it's retro looks.

[Alpine]

Seen my first few on the road .. holy shit this thing is bland.

[AstulzerRZD]

It didn't have much to do with the turbo's either... apparently a part of manufacturing process at a point in time where metal fragments were left inside the engine.

The V35A been having bearing issues since the LS500.

The Tundra variant got a cast bottom end and some physical changes for how the bearings are held.

Still having bearing issues, IMO it's more than manufacturing

[RabidRat]

Are you reading SAE journals or something? How are you so on top of this?!

[AstulzerRZD]

I just went through a round of doing truck shopping for my dad's business (hence the Lightning).
+ Used to work in product planning for Japanese OEM / for a domestic OEM on the tech side.
+ on online forums, just gotta look for the people who work for OEMs & in the service lane.

Tundra is the only light duty left with 8 foot bed, so we realllly considered it.
Very poorly laid out interior / engine killed it tho and wtf is with pricing/packages?
Need to get the Capstone to get a 360 camera when it's standard on SR5 equivalent F-150.

F150 finally has a "fixed" transmission that I don'tn expect to need a rebuild within warranty period.
But, the 2.7 and 5.0 now have a wet oil pump belt which failed a lot in the 1.0 ecoboost & I think they still require a special oil.
PowerBoost is incredibly unreliable.

GM are scrap metal - the frames have poor rust coating and the V8s have head issues.
2.7T might be ok but we don't have enough info.

IMO just get a Lightning if you need to put a rack on unless you're towing at highway speeds for long distance.
In which case, get a diesel or Silverado EV.

Medium / Heavy duty wise....

RAM has awful leases, sketchy trans, and the best motor/front suspension.
GM are just uncompetitive.
Ford has a great motor/leases ... the PowerStroke is really crammed in that engine bay so the gasser's my pick if you aren't always towing.

For a fun car?

The Land Rover crowd are now all in Rivians, which have a great interior and leases but ride stiff.
Wrangler's 4XE seems unreliable but US leases are cheap, 392 is crazy expensive but it's what the heart wants.
Still don't trust the Bronco 2.3 / 3.0, which seem to have a lot of problems in the explorer.

My pick? I'm probably in a Rivian - fits in with the Tahoe / Aspen / Montauk crowd.
4XE if you must have an open top.

[RabidRat]

Anyone know why diesel drivetrains seem hugely more reliable than gas ICE?

How come they can go hundreds of thousands of kms without much talk of issues? Seems it's both the engine and the transmission, too.

Is it because the same design is built into product lineups for long periods without refresh, so kind of a "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? Because there's no huge incentive to improve their fuel economy?

[AstulzerRZD]

The diesel power trains generally aren’t more reliable.

All the emissions equipment is critical but very expensive and problematic.
Every diesel with the CP4 pump has a $10k impending failure.
Ford 6.0/6.4 were disasters.

It’s really just the Cummins that are lasting a while…. Backed by several transmission rebuilds.

[EvoFire]

Anyone know why diesel drivetrains seem hugely more reliable than gas ICE?

How come they can go hundreds of thousands of kms without much talk of issues? Seems it's both the engine and the transmission, too.

Is it because the same design is built into product lineups for long periods without refresh, so kind of a "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? Because there's no huge incentive to improve their fuel economy?

I don't know if I would call them more reliable.

The engines are much heavier duty and yes they can take more abuse overall in general if you are always towing. If you aren't there's not a whole lot of reason to splurge for a diesel as the maintenance costs will catch up to you real quick. They have a lot more accessories/peripherals that can go wrong.

[underscore]

Anyone know why diesel drivetrains seem hugely more reliable than gas ICE?

They used to be because they used to be very simple. But even 15-20 years ago they started getting a lot more complex. Modern ones are insanely complex. You can't even see the actual engine in my buddies GM and the engine bay is enormous. You need to be doing a lot of heavy hauling to justify the difference these days imo.

[noclue]

Yeah my family had a F350 with the 6.7L powerstroke. It had pretty impressive fuel economy for the size 9.8l/100km but the maintenance costs were at least double of a gasser + def fluid.Plus the suspension is meant for heavy towing/hauling so the ride was rock hard unless it was loaded. We switched to a F150 and it is perfect. Nowadays with diesel being more $ than regular it’s hard to justify unless you really need it for the payload or towing.

[AstulzerRZD]

& back in the day - the F150s had 5k lb towing capacity and 2k lb payload.
nowadays, it's 14k towing and 3k payload.

Same deal with power, 390 hp and 735 tq on the 6.7
and now the 3.5 Ecoboost has 450hp / 510tq.

At this pt, towing is far more cooling and brake limited.

[noclue]

I was at openroad toyota the other day and a landcruiser was marked up to 100K...
and it was sold!

[AstulzerRZD]

They are selling UNDER MRSP in the states, 10-15k incentives

[radeonboy]

^That's pretty irrelevant for us Canadians here - our supply is limited and we can't readily take advantage of those US incentives anyway. Not any different than those cheap EQS / EV leases.

I see the Land Cruisers quite regularly nowadays - it's definitely retro looking and more fun to see than GXs on the road.

[RabidRat]

What's the best way to get a deal in Canada these days?

Is it recommended to go through CarCostCanada or the like? Or trying to go through a broker (any leads?).

Emailing the dealerships directly, I've only been able to get an offer at MSRP from Orangeville Kia for an EV9 GT-Line. Brantford Kia wanted more than MSRP. This pricing has been the same since May 2024 til now, and I would've thought pricing would've been pushed down by now.

[AstulzerRZD]

I think in general, it means that the GX/Land Cruiser aren't very well received if they're 15/5k off in their launch year.
Compare to Bronco that's still at MRSP 3-4 years later.

It's only a matter of time that dealers start discounting, or even TMMC offers the same incentive.
Solterra has 9k incentive rn in Canada, I think the same will happen for GX/LC soon enough

[twitchyzero]

i mean solterras were having wheels flying off and the ttv6 is widely recalled

bronco is also not diluted within the brand, whereas toyota has released like all 6 different truck/trucky products within a year's time, most of which have identical wheelbase

[68style]

I was (unfortunately) at OpenRoad Richmond Toyota today and they have a basic LandCruiser in their showroom... there's absolutely nothing about it that justiifies the $80k starting price tag... cloth seats and hard plastics everywhere inside, pretty mundane exterior. I don't care enough to build one, likely have to get close to 6 digits to get something cool looking but it was pretty boring / disappointing in person.

[AstulzerRZD]

i mean solterras were having wheels flying off and the ttv6 is widely recalled

ya, i think the discounts will come
if not a specific cash incentive, the lease/finance rates will get subsidized

the 9% rates for Corollas, Civics, and RAV4s right now is killer

[EvoFire]

I was (unfortunately) at OpenRoad Richmond Toyota today and they have a basic LandCruiser in their showroom... there's absolutely nothing about it that justiifies the $80k starting price tag... cloth seats and hard plastics everywhere inside, pretty mundane exterior. I don't care enough to build one, likely have to get close to 6 digits to get something cool looking but it was pretty boring / disappointing in person.

I don't have a problem with hard plastics. I think the media has gotten everyone brainwashed where everything needs to be soft touch plastic. As long as it doesn't snap, crackle, pop it's good plastic. Most of the interior cubbies and doors are hard plastics in anything below the a midsize luxury car. Especially on a offroader, I think hard plastics make more sense.

Not that I am the target market for it. RZD is right, the market is gonna choose a R1T over a LC. I think the NA LC looks great but the size is a miss when it's effectively the same size as the T4R. Toyota has their segments way too crowded.

[jaaagman]

I never understood why the 4Runner and the LC coexist at this point. Toyota's crossover/truck lineup at this point is insane. Is Canadian supply still seeing the same constraints? It doesn't seem like the situation has improved much since 2022. Interest rates are now much higher, so in theory, the demand should be lower...

[noclue]

They're sending most of the hybrids to the USA for more $ due to the strong USD. We get the scraps.

Still massive waits for Sienna/RAV4 prime etc

[AstulzerRZD]

I never understood why the 4Runner and the LC coexist at this point. Toyota's crossover/truck lineup at this point is insane. Is Canadian supply still seeing the same constraints? It doesn't seem like the situation has improved much since 2022. Interest rates are now much higher, so in theory, the demand should be lower...

Used to work in product planning and I actually think this is gonna work:

4R: for former 4Runner buyers, mostly working class.
Continues to appeal to "price sensitive" folks who are interested in "investing" in a trusted name and "reliable" off roader.

LC: Toyota's response to a few market forces; will be more limited production

Defender moving down market in price and style but raising buyer expectations
3-row LC owners aging and kids aren't school aged, wanting more fun than practicality
Dealer experience quite subpar especially in south-east
Former FJ aspirers now having some disposable income but don't want a 4R

GX: "best engine" and interior; conservative Arizona/Utah/Socal suburb families who aren't ready for electric

Current gaps/big risks in product lineup:

1) Lexus buyer averages mid-late 50s, buying largely based on relationship/reputation.
Sales are growing but under investment in entry level product/marketing means brand sales are at huge risk in 5-10 year timeframe.

2) Two areas where TMNA led - infotainment and trucks.
Though TMNA won the infotainment bet, they'll need to sell subscriptions to keep planning influence.
Warranty costs associated w/ Tundra may see power shift from TMNA towards TMJP.

3) Frontier investments - if they can pull off solid state batteries, they have a bit of a moat.

4) Corolla / Camry / RAV4: EV leases and used EVs getting really cheap w/ long warranties.
Logical buyers and price seekers may begin to switch, especially with lower running cost.
This makes the Toyota buyer more conservative, likely with worse credit, and newer to the country.

[EvoFire]

^I want your old job, it sounds fun.

The Accord/Camry/Civic/Corolla crowd will always exists, be it old men like us or new immigrants where this is what they drove, just 20 years older.

I don't know if the T4R will really be for more price sensitive folks. With the still not great fuel economy and if it's just a mall crawler, it makes the Highlander or Venza a much more appealing choice.

[AstulzerRZD]

T4R will work for the same reason SUVs sell better than minivans - people got an innate desire to feel cool.
Venza is scrap the way that Macy's is - there's no place for upscale but not yet luxury brands in N/A; it's more an asian thing these days.

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

[noclue]

T4R will work for the same reason SUVs sell better than minivans - people got an innate desire to feel cool.
Venza is scrap the way that Macy's is - there's no place for upscale but not yet luxury brands in N/A; it's more an asian thing these days.

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

Why didn't you persuade HQ to bring the alphard to canada bro. It'll only sell in richmond, richmond hill and markham lmao.

[AstulzerRZD]

Toyota and Honda and Nissan figured out brand name matters in N/A.

I don't think the Alphard will even sell in Richmond / RH / Markham - those products are focused on narrow roads and rear seat experience for adults
The Quest sold incredibly poorly

[Dbone]

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

Product planning can also be mega stressful. Forecasting is often off and then the planner has to scramble to sort all that out.

Besides, AI is replacing a lot of the planing work, and the remaining work is often now centralized.

[Badhobz]

theres a ton of alphards in richmond currently. people are scooping them up and it feels like we are driving around in asia

[EvoFire]

T4R will work for the same reason SUVs sell better than minivans - people got an innate desire to feel cool.
Venza is scrap the way that Macy's is - there's no place for upscale but not yet luxury brands in N/A; it's more an asian thing these days.

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

I guess I'm too Asian? The Venza makes a lot of sense to me because the Rav4 is so bargain basement. Considering how much the NX costs and how not a great car it is, I'm surprised no one buys the Venza more. But like your other post said, the badge matters too much in NA.

I have no problems with buying an Acura or Buick if they put out competent products. The RDX is a good car but there were a few deal breaking foibles with it. The Insignia based Regal was an amazing car but again they hobbled the GS version with it being 2.0T FWD. If only they brought the full fat OPC (I wasn't in the market though, I was too young)

I thought it'd be at least a 100k job based on the analytics required. I guess if you were a manager it'd be a 100k job.

Toyota and Honda and Nissan figured out brand name matters in N/A.

I don't think the Alphard will even sell in Richmond / RH / Markham - those products are focused on narrow roads and rear seat experience for adults
The Quest sold incredibly poorly

The Quest was so severely decontented though. It was a far cry from what it's supposed to be.

I do sit back sometimes and think about it though. Vancouver is an odd place that's not at all representative of what NA buying habits are. Nowhere else except maybe parts of California has this kind of EV uptake rate. Most places do not see more BMW/MB/Audi on the street than Toyota/Honda/Ford/Chevy. It's an odd place we are in.

[AstulzerRZD]

Most metro markets are actually more like Vancouver - regional lease deals on MB/BMW are super competitive and often cheaper than Toyota.

IMO people who want nicer than RAV4 tend to take a bigger jump because the Venza's still got a ton of cheap plastic on center console, noisy on highway, etc.

The X3 is RAV4 big, pretty fuel efficient, leases great (0.1% interest with loyalty last month in Canada) ... X3M was cheaper than RAV4 Prime last month.

Acura sells pretty well in Ontario since the buyers want more comfort but rely on their cars so don't want "german reliability".

[EvoFire]

We basically did exactly that, picked a X3 over a Rav4 hybrid. They financed roughly the same but a much more refined package. Can't beat Rav4 utility though, it feels like 0.5 class bigger than the luxury cars.

[AstulzerRZD]

You’re not the only one - the Venza are for old folk who think a Lexus / BMW is too fancy

Pretty sure they sell more corvettes than venzas

[Klondike]

I guess I'm too Asian? The Venza makes a lot of sense to me because the Rav4 is so bargain basement. Considering how much the NX costs and how not a great car it is, I'm surprised no one buys the Venza more. But like your other post said, the badge matters too much in NA.


Crazy how fast Toyota dumped the Venza/Harrier. Seems like everyone forgot about it, so you can pick up a fully loaded one for about low-mid 40s. Great crossover that never really had its heyday.

[headhunt3r]

I'm probably in the minority that I'm interested in the Venza replacement - the Crown Signia. I think it'll be a great family hauler, and it'll give us the most amount of space to sit without going the minivan route.

[AstulzerRZD]

the Crown Signia will sell better than the Venza - its' sporty look will appeal to the LATAM families who are currently modding top trim Highlanders in the US.

[AstulzerRZD]

Crazy how fast Toyota dumped the Venza/Harrier. Seems like everyone forgot about it, so you can pick up a fully loaded one for about low-mid 40s. Great crossover that never really had its heyday.

It's just the wrong product for North Americans - small, noisy, slow, no brand, and XLE is more expensive than Q5 Technik to finance in Canada*.
like bro, what are these bezels on the LE model I rented?
https://iili.io/dVQlfiN.jpg

My sister/mom aren't brand conscious or that picky, but still asked me if something was wrong with the car cuz it was so loud trying to keep up with 130kmh highway traffic
+ they won't look at a car without 360/autopark after going down T&T and DT parking lot ramps in an X6 I had.

[roastpuff]

No 360 is almost a dealbreaker for a daily for nowadays IMO. So useful for city parking/driving. Honda and Toyota not including it or limiting to top trim is very dumb.

[AstulzerRZD]

It's because Honda/Toyota overinvest in the safety systems (Adaptive Cruise, etc) while the Germans leave it optional.

The bigger problem is even if you pay for it on the Japanese car, it's really bad.
Basic stuff like parking sensor on MY24 RX I drove completely missed a pole.

On this Tundra, FFS the lines aren't even lined up
https://tap.fremontmotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/2022-Tundra-Multi-Camera.jpg

[yray]

LOL japanese cars still have 480p camera while I can get a 4k front and rear cam + mirror from amazon for $100

[jaaagman]

The automotive grade cameras and screens are designed to withstand a wider range of temperature extremes. Any Amazon-spec cheapo camera or head unit is unlikely to last as long. Toyota and Honda have never been in the forefront of tech and tend to be quite conservative with adopting new technologies in general.

Legacy car makers in general suck at doing tech, but they're investing more and more money into it each year.

[supafamous]

I'm probably in the minority that I'm interested in the Venza replacement - the Crown Signia. I think it'll be a great family hauler, and it'll give us the most amount of space to sit without going the minivan route.

I'm pretty keen on it as well - looks like tonnes of space and near Lexus grade quality for less money. Dealer tells me they aren't accepting orders right now as volumes are going to be really low for some time though. With Audi and BMW choosing not to send their PHEV compact SUVs over this leaves me a very short list of options - XC60, GLC 350e, and the Crown Signia with the Crown running at least $20k less (after taxes) than the Volvo and Mercedes.

[AstulzerRZD]

So it's bigger, faster, and has more "visible" leather than the NX300h.

https://images.cars.com/cldstatic/wp-content/uploads/toyota-crown-signia-2025-13-interior-front-row-scaled.jpg

Kinda the Venza's problems, sportier styling, solid SUV for the late 20s/early 30s working-middle class Toyota buyers to aspire to, probably going to stay low volume.

Next CX5/50 is how they'll amortize development cost to younger buyers.
Will have to see how Mazda improves tech cuz the CX90 felt pretty half assed.
Laggy/low resolution cluster and main screen.

FFS the Americans been doing this stuff right since 2015 in the Charger/Grand Cherokee

[yray]

Legacy car makers in general suck at doing tech, but they're investing more and more money into it each year.

its not like they make the cameras in house, its bought from someone connected to the head unit using an AV cable. Heck the move to AA /Carplay should save them money :lawl:

a 2014 merc reverse cam should not perform better than a 2023 RX reverse cam

[AstulzerRZD]

Welcome to JDM supplier politics

[Alpine]

So it's bigger, faster, and has more "visible" leather than the NX300h.

https://images.cars.com/cldstatic/wp-content/uploads/toyota-crown-signia-2025-13-interior-front-row-scaled.jpg

Kinda the Venza's problems, sportier styling, solid SUV for the late 20s/early 30s working-middle class Toyota buyers to aspire to, probably going to stay low volume.

Next CX5/50 is how they'll amortize development cost to younger buyers.
Will have to see how Mazda improves tech cuz the CX90 felt pretty half assed.
Laggy/low resolution cluster and main screen.

FFS the Americans been doing this stuff right since 2015 in the Charger/Grand Cherokee

The Crown lineup is basically just a passion product in NA. Too expensive to be a Toyota, and most will just step into a Lexus for a similar price.

[twitchyzero]

awd full-time savagegeese reports 13l/100km around town on premium

...in a 4cyl hybrid on all-seasons and that's the lightest one too, in flat midwest

saw a tan one yesterday, it looks great but not sure if it's 90k great but i suppose at least it's not blowing up like new GX/taco/tundra, yet?

[bcrdukes]

I'm probably in the minority that I'm interested in the Venza replacement - the Crown Signia. I think it'll be a great family hauler, and it'll give us the most amount of space to sit without going the minivan route.

You're not alone. My wife and I are very interested and the reviews are highly favourable with very few things to really complain about. While not the same car, the Crown (not the Signia) is still the top contender on our list.

Or it's a Panamera GTS. :lol