SkinnyPupp's Adventures in Watchmaking [Archive]

SkinnyPupp

01-24-2025, 06:38 AM

I've looked into the first steps of education, and there are a couple different levels one can take

-Learn from Youtubers. Free. This would be for hobby purposes only

-Learn from a tutorial site like watchfix (https://www.watchfix.com/) or watchrepairtutorials (https://watchrepairtutorials.com/).. These are be about $200-300 and by the end you'd be able to do basic maintenance on 3 handers and then you can go from there

-Distance education from a school like the British Horology Institute. Technician grade 1 year course is about $700, and you can then go there to take an exam to become accredited. They recommend in person lessons to prepare for this. This is the school in the video I posted above, and the technician grade covers the basics and more (for instance you make your own tools)

-In person education like WOSTEP in Switzerland. Tuition is about $20K for the first year service course, or $36K for 2 years watchmaking. I'd need to relocate to Switzerland, find room and board, etc. Unfortunately I failed at having rich parents, so this is kind of out of the question

-Brands have schools with free tuition (Rolex even pays an $1800 per month stipend). Richemont has a school in Hong Kong, I am looking into it (brb deleting all my Panerai shitposts). Obviously this gets you a job immediately as a technician. Rolex says the beginning salary is $70K.

They say no experience is necessary, but you would definitely want to be pretty adept at it before applying. In that case, one of the non accredited methods and a lot of practice may be the way to go. That is if you want to work for a brand rather than do it on your own. Either way, nobody is going to give you the ability to buy parts for yourself.

Badhobz

01-24-2025, 08:08 PM

Skinny if you become a real whoreologist (lawl) I’ll come to Hong Kong and get some custom pieces from ya

SkinnyPupp

01-29-2025, 03:26 PM

After a lot of consideration, I have ordered a tall desk and good lamp from AliBaba. I ordered some cheaper stuff like air blower, parts case, oil caps, etc from AliExpress.

I wanted to go to a watchmaker shop to buy the necessary quality tools and oils today, aaaaaand... It's Chinese New Years. They'll be closed for like a week :fuckthatshit:

Been watching a LOT of videos from the watch repair tutorials channel, and I have learned a lot, but when I am ready to get started I think I will go with watchfix's lessons. He tends to get to the point more quickly and clearly.

Once the tools arrive I'll start ripping apart this ST36 (Unitas 6497 clone) and put it together. Also going to order an ETA 2824 clone and a Seiko NH35 to get some more varied experience. Watchfix also has a class on chronographs once I am confident I can handle that.

From there I'll see where I want to go.. I am thinking of going straight to the BHI course, and in that case I will need to buy a lathe. After a year of study and training, I guess it'll be time to head to the UK to get certified, and go from there. Before that, I may look into subsidized training from a brand like Swatch, LVMH, Richemont or Rolex (Richemont has a school in Hong Kong). But I am worried they would only be interested in taking in young students to get the most years from them. That's just my assumption though; I don't know how it works IRL.

Badhobz

01-29-2025, 05:24 PM

Sweet !!! If my Patrick watch ever goes star up, you can take a crack at it…. Or RB.

I’ve been wearing my Patrick watch everywhere and I’ve gotten 5 guys asking to buy it from me straight up and double what I paid for it.

SkinnyPupp

01-29-2025, 05:42 PM

This is the first time in a long time that I've felt like I have a direction I actually want to go, and can see a path to get there

01-29-2025, 08:44 PM

Wishing you the best with that Skinny, I really do. Not gonna lie, I'm pretty damn lost in life at the moment but the one thing that calms my head is when i'm distracted working on a watch or searching for my next watch project.

I once sold a watch to a hipster Korean kid who told me he wanted to leave his life behind to change the world being a watchmaker. Thought he was downright insane as he was telling me this as he got in my car to inspect the watch :lol The SOB actually went to Switzerland for a few yrs to train as a watchmaker

01-29-2025, 08:54 PM

SkinnyPupp

01-29-2025, 09:20 PM

If you were in Vancouver (or near Coquitlam), i'd let you either borrow some of my tools to get started or just give you some of my unused tools. Oh and some of those tools you ordered will totally get the job done and if they happen to break on you, dont throw them out. They can often be modified for other purposes.
Appreciate it! I think right away I'll have what I need to service new movements, since no repairs will be needed. I will make sure the important tools are good quality - screwdrivers, tweezers, holder, loupe, etc. The prices here (http://www.nam-hing.com/) for genuine Bergeon and Horotec are insanely lower compared to online shops I've compared to, depending on the item.

But yeah, once I start messing around with old watches is when I guess I'd need specialized tools for jewel repair, staking, etc.

For the first bit I plan on servicing these movements over and over, and see how long it takes to feel competent with it.. The advice from both tutorial sites is different from the youtubers, and that is to do this instead of buying vintage movements, because you don't yet know how to make something work if something is wrong. If the schools in Switzerland have you working on a 6497 over and over at first, I think that's probably a good way to learn!

An idea for a first vintage project is to find an old pocketwatch with an actual Unitas 6497 in it, service that and stick it in my Panerai. (although I checked it with the timegrapher app yesterday, and it seems to be still doing well, within 2-5 spd in 3 positions, though the amplitude says 190)

I've found that if you search for 70's Swiss pocket watches you'll find a lot of them for $50-100, but if you search for the movement itself they will be pretty expensive

SkinnyPupp

01-30-2025, 04:48 PM

I have been doing research in replica and clone movements, to see if they would give practical experience in genuine movements. I already posted about the Seagull ST3600 which is a legitimate clone of the expired patent ETA 6497. Same with the ST2130 which is an ETA 2824. Swiss companies make clones of this movement too, like the Sellita SW200. (don't forget that there are actual shitty clones of these though! Have to avoid those)

There's basically 2 or 3 rough categories of replica movements - repurposed off the shelf movements (usually an ST2130 clone) decorated to look like the brand it is in, or 'true clones' which are as close to 1:1 as possible and in some cases genuine parts can be swapped in. These are like the ones I mentioned above, but not legal since the patents are still active.

There are some Rolex movements that fall into this category, so that's another thing I can pick up for practice. Obviously the balance won't be 'free sprung' but if it's like 90% close, it should be practical

Then it occurred to me that there might be something in just being the 'replica service guy' for the more expensive reps. Most of these will come in the most shitty condition, poorly oiled and possibly with metal shavings in them if the movement is lazily decorated. The rep fans seem to be interested in finding someone who is 'rep friendly' to make their replicas work more like originals, but are too shy to bring them into a proper watchmaker.

There's a list of dudes doing this on reddit and their wait lists tend to be months long, with 3-4 services per week.. That would be a bout $50-70K a year of income if the work is steady. A good way to earn some money on the side while studying and practicing at the same time :considered:

Anyway there's my latest brainspill as I spent about 3 or 4 hours going down that rabbit hole

01-30-2025, 06:01 PM

SkinnyPupp

01-30-2025, 06:30 PM

A lot of the guys on reptime send their watches to get serviced right after recieving it. The DD3125 and 3235 being some of the most common movements for rolex reps. Some gen movement parts are a direct fit. About $150 for the movement on alix.
Yup and DD4130 for Daytona reps, for about $300

I still find it hard to believe that a clone chronograph could actually be somewhat reliable

I checked and there doesn't seem to be anyone serving Hong Kong or really anywhere in Asia, at least on the big English language forums.

There's probably a million people here doing it for like $50 a service

01-30-2025, 06:41 PM

Asian 7750s are straight trash though. It might help give you experience with real vj7750s though as they arent exactly reliable either.

SkinnyPupp

01-30-2025, 07:42 PM

Asian 7750s are straight trash though. It might help give you experience with real vj7750s though as they arent exactly reliable either.
Most of the people I came across won't even touch those! LUL

SkinnyPupp

02-03-2025, 01:32 AM

Still waiting for tools to come, but I couldn't help myself

One of my ST36's (the fake Seagull that came with the Panerai) had stopped running, I think it must have gotten dropped or something.

So I removed the balance and put it back in, then it started ticking. Cool! Had to take apart most of the keyless works too, to reset a spring that had been dislodged. Managed to do this beside my window using a 5x magnifier and cheap screwdrivers LUL

But its error rate is like 9ms and the amplitude is very low, and it just doesn't look right.. I won't bother trying to find out why for now, I'll mess around with it later. It was probably messed up by whoever cut off the seconds wheel pinion to make it a no-seconds dial.

But just for fun, @RB can you tell which one it might be by comparing it to a fully working one?

https://streamable.com/8dmn06

BTW the working one seems to be magnetized, based on an app I used to test it. It makes the reading go DOWN for some reason. None of my other watches have an effect. I have one of those cheap blue demagnetizers coming in as well.

BTW sorry for taking over the thread. Once I start working on stuff, I'll make a new thread for it. RB you're MORE than welcome to post your stuff there too! Please!

02-06-2025, 06:33 PM

SkinnyPupp

02-06-2025, 09:30 PM

Like which one doesnt look right? Looking off if my ghetto phone, i'm going with the right. Balance wheel oscillation looks a bit off. Assuming they are both fully wound

Get yourself a good demagnetizer. Buy the one with a hole pass through. The cheap blue ones where you just place the watch arent as good.

As for projects, I dont have any at the moment lol. Have a ton of spare seiko parts so might do a samurai or skx build eventually so they dont go to waste.
Yeah the one on the right was so messed up, 9ms error. I took a look at it and it was barely holding onto the stud. And I don't mean the stud fell out of the arm, I mean the hairspring came right off the stud! The cheap epoxy they used failed. Remember, this is the fake Seagull (yes, they will even make fake $30 products in China to go even cheaper)

It's not even worth attempting to fix that :fuckthatshit:

I can use it for the springs and screws if I lose them

Apparently the trick with those blue brick demagnetizers is to turn it on and then lift the thing you're demagnetizing SLOWLY, as high as 2 feet above it. Repeat that a few times and it works. If you just put it on there and press the button, it won't be very effective. I'll test it out when it arrives. Sounds like a pain in the ass, but I am already spending a lot on other tools, and as long as it works I can go cheap on that one for now.

Nam Hing finally opened after Chinese New Year.. On a Friday. So now I have to wait until Monday to put my order in.

Their selection is quite limited, so everything else that I needed to be high quality I ordered from Cousins UK. Very cheap shipping! I expected to have to use a drop shipper. I have a couple things coming in from Taobao and AliBaba and AliExpress. Ordered some 99% IPA from China and hope it makes it across the border LUL

Now I just need my sister to clear out that room so I can start building the workshop!

Here's what I have coming in

From Nam Hing (local tool shop). These prices are great, and yes they are authorized dealers listed on Bergeon and Horotec's sites. Comparing prices to Esslinger:

Bergeon Bench Top Sheet ($7 instead of $25)
Rodico ($2 instead of $7)
Bergeon Pegwood
Bergeon 5X/12X Eyeloupe ($11 instead of $25)
Horotec 6 piece Screwdriver Set with aluminum stand ($50 instead of $189)
Bergeon Oiler (Red) ($2 instead of $5)
Novostar Watch Oil (using Novostar for now just to practice - it's $2 instead of $35 for Moebius 9010)

From Cousins I have tweezers (Dumont), oil (D5), movement holder and some other stuff. I wish Nam Hing sold this stuff, it would probably be $15-20 for the movement holder instead of $40, and the tweezers would probably be half the price too.

Edit: The demagnetizer arrived and I just tested it out with a screwdriver and it worked. I tried it with a movement that detects at 50 uT on my phone (I think that's below what's considered magnetized, but higher than environmental magnetism which is around 20-30) and it didn't make a difference. Maybe it needs to be beyond a certain point?

02-07-2025, 09:12 PM

Edit: The demagnetizer arrived and I just tested it out with a screwdriver and it worked. I tried it with a movement that detects at 50 uT on my phone (I think that's below what's considered magnetized, but higher than environmental magnetism which is around 20-30) and it didn't make a difference. Maybe it needs to be beyond a certain point?

Oh its works, its just hit or miss in my experience lol. and yeah, Its somewhat similar to degaussing an old CRT where you move it around and away. I've saved many quartz chronographs and a few vintage automatics with the other version, whereas the blue one just didn't seem strong enough. Maybe the one i ordered was defective.

As for your tools, those are awesome prices for quality tools. Since you'll be mainly working on movements, I suggest getting a high quality hand setting press. I've bent a few handsets with those cheap spring presses

Learnt a neat trick for the seconds hand, place a tiny bit of rodico on the tip of a wooden peg to pick up a seconds hand, then align it and press gently. Far betting than picking it up with tweezers and trying to align it before pressing down on a press or tool

SkinnyPupp

02-14-2025, 12:08 AM

So it turns out that the prices in that store's website are outdated by like 20 years LUL

The actual prices are competitive to retail but not Cousins wholesale prices. That didn't stop my impatient ass from buying most of what I originally planned FailFish

Still need screwdrivers though. Thinking about Horotec aluminum which are reasonably priced compared to stainless steel

SkinnyPupp

02-14-2025, 10:38 PM

Pretty much all my tools and furniture have arrived! Except the screwdrivers which I had to order again FailFish I got the Horotec aluminum set, which worked out to about $7.50 per screwdriver for a set of 10, plus the rotating stand. Not the top top grade but not cheap stuff either. I dunno

Also got my timegrapher! Of course the first thing I did was strap the ol' Panerai into it

https://i.imgur.com/210GozE.png

That is in Crown Right position. Crown Up is also -2. Dial Down is -3 and Dial Up is actually the worst at -6, which is ironic because this should be the easiest position on the balance wheel.

The issue is the low amplitude at 215ish. This should be at least 270 at full wind. I can't wait to service this and see where it ends up after that. Hopefully not completely fucked lol

Here's my STEELDIVE with Seiko NH35, Dial Up. Dial Down is also great. Crown Right, Crown Up loses 8 seconds

https://i.imgur.com/jFSzHWd.png

And my Laco - Not the greatest results at dial up!. Crown Right was much better, at -1 s/d

https://i.imgur.com/2pUgJdd.png

Badhobz

02-15-2025, 08:53 PM

did you get the most vital tool for a watch maker?!?!?!?

round glasses and a leather apron?! no? YOURE DOING IT WRONG !!!!!

68style

02-16-2025, 06:04 AM

Aww man he ordered from temu and ended up with a round apron and leather glasses

SkinnyPupp

02-17-2025, 01:21 AM

Sorry to spam but I am super excited lol

I gave my sister the rest of the month to move her stuff out (kind of regretting that, but hey it's family) so I still can't set up my workshop. I couldn't wait though, so I installed the lamp and decided to tear down one of these mofos

I tried the loupe which has 5x and you can add an additional 15x for inspection. I do not like it at all, even at 5x. It's uncomfortable and tries to point to the right and it's hard to mess around with and it fogs up. 1600's technology right? I still have that headset I bought to deal with those issues before, so I used that. 3.5x with additional light, but it is heavy (due to the AAA batteries) and really digs into the bridge of my nose. Still better than the loupe. I have to look into a better quality headset with 3.5ish mag. I see some have USB charging now which should mean lighter battery... Eventually I will get a microscope.

I got to compare the Dumont tweezers to my old cheap brass ones and holy shit lol. It's hard to think that they are even the same tool. Even as a total noob, I can manipulate tiny screws and springs with no problems. I would pick up the old tweezers to compare, and it was like using a set of tongs from the kitchen. They say tweezers are worth spending money on, and based on just this, I agree

Same with the movement holder.. I had a $2 Chinese one just to mess around with before, but the Swiss one is so much better. It just locks onto the movement and you don't have to fuck with it to get it to stay in place.

I'm sure the screwdrivers will be the same, but for now I had to use cheapies. I did dress the heads to fit better, but the screwdriver itself is all squeaky lol

So for the movements, I had my purchased Seagull ST36, and the Asia ST36 that came with my watch. As mentioned, the balance spring came right off the stud on the Asia one. The issue with the Seagull is that it would stop running frequently. So the idea was to tear it down, figure out what's wrong with it (I had an idea) and take that part off the Asia model

Just as I expected, I fucked it up back when I first got it, trying to turn the seconds wheel into a no-seconds (so removing the pivot that the seconds hand attaches to). This was the one I tried to file off, what a bright idea right? I figured that did it, but I didn't have confirmation now. What is in my watch now is a third one I bought, where I properly cut off the pivot with a pair of high quality snips. IT's been working great since then

So what was wrong with it? The jewel was cracked! The filing motion would have cracked it. So I took the train bridge off the Asia model for the rebuild

Put it all back together, and it's working great in all positions. Hopefully it's still running tomorrow lol

https://i.imgur.com/tTmL1x8.png

Tomorrow I'm going to do the same thing, but with a clean and oil. I have 99% IPA for cleaning (no need for anything drastic yet with new movements - and yes I know not to put shellac in there). For oil I have 9010 but I also got some 8000 to practice with. Also D5 which is cheap for medium viscosity since it comes in a big bottle, and Molykote DX which is cheap grease. Wish me luck!

From now on I'll stop spamming this thread with this crap. I was going to wait until my workshop is ready to start a new thread, but I might have to do it tomorrow if I end up doing the full service.

68style

02-17-2025, 08:17 AM

I’m Okay with spamming, very enjoyable!

SkinnyPupp

02-17-2025, 10:04 PM

Since you guys don't seem to mind the spam I'll post a quick update

I did a full service on the movement today - disassembly, cleaning (in 99% IPA with a brush, dried in a food dehydrator at 40C), oil, reassembly.

I even did the balance jewels and holy shit that is stressful. I pinged the jewel and the holder so many times, but somehow they only wanted to fly a few inches so I never lost them.

The top one was quite greasy, so dipping it in alcohol didn't do the trick. I buffed it on some paper and that gave it the mirror shine I was looking for

Lubricating these things is hard.. The cap jewel is about 1.3 mm wide, and you have to hit it with enough oil to cover about 50% of the total area - do the math lol. And it has to stay right in the middle. If it travels to the edge, you have to start over. I saw somewhere that ironically, bigger tweezers hold onto these things better. I have some cheaper 00 size coming, so I'll give it a go. If it feels better, I might have to get some good ones in that size too.

This is all done with a shitty loupe fogging up every 2 minutes. I have to use my air blower to clear it up when it does. I can't stand that thing, and I will need to find a better solution asap. Microscopes are about $120 on Taobao for what looks like the same sold unbranded on watch repair sites. Might need to fit that into the budget sooner rather than later. I also read that you can cut vents into your loupe which can help with the fogging, so I'll give that a look in the meantime. I feel like my sweaty head might be too much for it though LUL

It took a long time but I got them together and the watch is running

The service helped tighten the timings quite a bit - beat error is down to 0.1ms, and it does a better job of holding a steady rate throughout all positions (delta is like 4 seconds but I won't know until tomorrow for more complete results). The amplitude did not improve yet though, so the mainspring itself may be weak.

New problem though - when running dial up, the movement stops after about 20 minutes! Last time it happened I gave the center wheel a little poke through the jewel with some pegwood, and that seems to have knocked it loose. (edit 3 hours later: Since doing this, the watch has not stopped again). I believe this is the "Asia" seconds wheel that came with my watch, rather than the one I filed down and ruined the other jewel with. I'll give that other wheel a try later, maybe after making sure the filed pivot is nice and smooth first, with this stupid loupe

Morning Edit: Watch is still running well this morning! Even better now that the oils have settled in SeemsGood

underscore

02-18-2025, 08:02 AM

Have you tried any anti-fog sprays or wipes? Or even the old scuba trick, spit in it, wipe it around and then rinse it out.

68style

02-18-2025, 10:39 AM

Spittin on it before Hawk Tuah made it cool

SkinnyPupp

02-18-2025, 09:32 PM

So this might explain some weird timings (can't believe it worked at all!)

https://i.imgur.com/krJ5b65.png

Badhobz

02-19-2025, 06:43 AM

SkinnyPupp

02-19-2025, 12:31 PM

i dont even know wtf im looking at but its all pretty neat stuff. i love tiny itty bitty stuff!!!

your wife: WTF YOU DOING!?!?!

you: what what!? I'm lubricating this tiny movement

your wife: heh. KEKW
That is the 'fourth wheel' which rotates once every 60 seconds. So when a watch has a seconds hand, it attaches to this wheel somehow

This movement, being basically an old pocket watch movement, has a post on it that goes right through the dial, which you put the seconds hand on directly. On the dial the hand will be beside the 9 o'clock (most would have this at the 6 o'clock, like the Rolex 1908 I posted above)

My watch does not have a seconds hand. So when Panerai orders their movements for this model, they get a version of this wheel that doesn't have this post. But the Chinese version of the movement only has one version of the wheel, so if you want to put it in a watch with no seconds hand, you have to cut that post shorter. Otherwise you can't put the dial on

The one on the right was my first attempt at doing this last year with no real tools. I used a file to shorten it, but it looks like I broke it right off. Also I cracked the jewel that it sat in. The thing actually worked somewhat, but would stop after a few minutes.

So the first thing I did was move the bridge over from the original movement that came with my watch with the non broken jewel, but kept this wheel. It worked, and had great overall timing, but when you look at the graph, the watch slows down and speeds up over the course of one minute. This is what gave away that something is wrong with this particular wheel

The one on the left is the one that came with my watch, snipped by whoever put the replica together. Yesterday I moved that wheel over too, and it runs perfect now.

What's keeping my latest build from perfect is that there is now a 1.0 ms beat error that I have to figure out. In reality this is irrelevant, but I know it can hit 0 so I want to get there.

Today I am going to re-lube the balance jewels - this is the hardest part of a basic service by far. I managed to do it the first time, but I probably didn't do a good job, and the oil probably touched the edge of the 1.3mm jewel. It has to stay in the middle. This will take a lot of practice to get right, but I am down.

If that doesn't fix it, I have to try regulating the beat error out. Not too hard on this type of movement, but I haven't tried that before

Edit: Regulated, this is dial down (all other positions good except dial up, which is probably due to bad balance jewel lube)

https://i.imgur.com/DCKcIqH.png

underscore

02-19-2025, 12:46 PM

re-lube the balance jewels

:ifyouknow:

SkinnyPupp

02-19-2025, 12:51 PM

Walked right into that one

SkinnyPupp

02-21-2025, 03:17 AM

Did another service today, with a couple goals in mind

1) Do it using no reference whatsoever
2) Oil the balance springs again (this is the hardest thing to do by far)

#1 achieved! Had no problem putting this simple movement together in the right order (which can be important for some parts) and even remembered the correct direction of the click

#2 was tough. First of all I lost an end cap jewel, so I had to take one from the donor. (also lost one of the smaller screws, so I took that as well)

This is what Incabloc springs look like when opened

https://i.imgur.com/l3Qt20y.png

See that brass fork looking thing sticking up? That is about 0.7mm wide at the tip, and oh by the way it is a spring. The slightest bit of torsion will cause it to jump (and how much torsion do you think it takes to wind a <1mm spring that is microns thick?).

Oh, and it's not really attached to anything, it just wedges in at the base as you can see. If it gets twisted by more than a few microns, with another few microns of force going in another direction, it will slip out. I think you can see where this is going.

It took a long time, but I was able to get it back in. Furthermore, oiling the end caps went much smoother this time (minus the lost jewel). It took a couple tries, but I was able to get the oil centered, and drop the chaton on top without the oil leaking out towards the side. This keeps a pocket of oil suspended right over the pivot, which results in as little friction as possible. Importantly, both sides should have the same amount of oil (a drop about 700 microns wide).

There are easier methods using expensive automatic oilers, but I am learning to do it the old school way, to improve my overall dexterity. If I can do this well, I will be able to do much more, and when I get to do this as work, I can use the tool efficiently.

It takes about a day for everything to settle in to be able to regulate the timing, but it's looking good so far. We'll see.

I ordered some stuff as well - a clone of the ETA 2824-2 movement which is in approximately 10 billion Swiss watches around the world. Seriously, if you see a watch with legit Swiss branding on it, chances are it has this movement, or a Swiss clone of it from Sellita. It's more modern and a lot smaller than what I have here, and has an automatic winding system and a calendar to learn with.

I also ordered a replacement mainspring for one of these 6497's. The amplitude is really low, so I want to see if a legit Swiss spring helps. It's less than $10 so whatever. If it goes well, it will go into my watch. This also gives me something to learn - replacing a mainspring.

Badhobz

02-21-2025, 09:55 AM

This is super neat. I don’t know how you guys have the patience for such an endeavour

I “tried” to “fix” my broken 1957 seagull chronograph and it ended up in a trash with a million little pieces everywhere. I laughed while I manically smashed all the tiny pieces into an “outsiders” art piece.

https://youtu.be/3Zh37GjeJYw?si=acPbFggt2F1lz6-Z

SkinnyPupp

02-21-2025, 01:28 PM

It feels really cool to get these things working, even these little problems I am solving. Even cleaning and oiling! I imagine taking an old beat up watch and making it run well is the ultimate rewarding experience. I'll have to give that a shot pretty soon

Without magnification, forget it. Most stuff like disassembly and assembly I just use the 2.5x glasses but anything where you're manipulating these tiny parts, I have to use the 15x loupe (which sucks because I hate using it)

SkinnyPupp

02-24-2025, 09:48 PM

Oh man I was about to have my best rebuild today.. Last time I practiced oiling the escape wheel, and while I didn't do a perfect job, it improved the amplitude tremendously.

Today I did a much better job of that, and oiling the rest, I even cleaned the pallet stones, going for the best timings possible. And all I had to do was deal with those shock settings again

Apparently these fake Incabloc springs come out very easily, so you're not really supposed to hinge them up like I do in the photo above. The smallest twist (like 0.1mm) will cause them to fall out.

So it happened again, and while I was trying to get it back in, ping! Off it went, nowhere to be found.

No problem, I have a spare. Ping! It's gone too. Dammit

So I ordered another one of these movements (for 150 RMB on Taobao, about $20 USD. Much cheaper than AliExpress where they are at least $30) and I'll try to be even more careful with this one.

If I can get it to run perfectly, I am putting it in my watch to be used full time, and the one in my watch will become my practice movement.

I also ordered a clone of the ETA 2824-2, the workhorse movement I think I wrote about a while ago. A version of it's in pretty much every "Swiss made" watch you know of that is between maybe $1000 and $5000.

SkinnyPupp

02-25-2025, 11:10 PM

Good news, I found BOTH brass springs under my desk! I can't believe it. I'll try installing it tomorrow, being extra careful not to grab it by the sides with the tweezers (I think this is what sends them flying)

New movement came in, based on the ETA 2824-2 workhorse movement. I was not ready for how small it is! Here it is compared to what I've been working on. I resized the image to approximate real dimensions at arm's length. If you're viewing on a monitor with proper DPI it should be about the same on your screen. If you're viewing on a phone, get off the toilet and get back to work!:

https://i.imgur.com/n2DPbYz.png

Badhobz

02-26-2025, 05:32 AM

arrgh this is so neat. I cant wait for you to turn into RB and start Frankenstine-ing watches together into a mish mash of epicness.

68style

02-26-2025, 10:57 AM

SkinnyPupp

02-26-2025, 12:38 PM

I took a Citizen that I really like apart awhile back before I moved and lost the tiniest screw in the world in a shag rug... never found it even taking the rug and shaking it out before I skeedaddled off to Calgary. The watch is still sitting here unassembled and making me sad lol... '

I know the pain so well though, I took every precaution working in a barrier area so the screws couldn't fly out when I picked them up with my admittedly barbarian level tweezers and somehow it still looped up in the air high enough to clear everything and disappear into the ether.
I didn't mention it, but I actually lost the canon pinion of that new movement, just being stupid while handling it. That's how I found those two springs, while looking for something else.

I couldn't find this thing with a flashlight though, so I vacuumed my room, emptied it out into a bag (hooray for Dyson vacuums), and swished a magnet around in the dirt and was able to recover it.

My next workshop is going to be clear and free of clutter, so it should be easier to recover things. I decided I won't touch that new movement until I'm set up in there.

02-26-2025, 05:03 PM

Having a decent magnet around is your friend for finding lost movement screws lol. I also only work on watches around bare floors. No carpets or rugs around

SkinnyPupp

03-02-2025, 01:16 AM

OK so my sister has pretty much cleared the room. I need to disassemble a bed and some furniture and then I'll be able to move in and get going!

I've been servicing the ST3600 every day, sometimes a couple times, getting better at it every time. I can lube those end caps pretty decently now, and I have figured out how to handle the shitty fake Incabloc springs. I stick a tiny piece of Rodico at the base, so it can't fling around when opened. These things do not like to be opened all the way, which makes placing the jewels something of a challenge.

I replaced a mainspring and that was an adventure. When I opened the barrel the damn thing popped out at me! I have seen people do it a million times on Youtube and it's rare, but it happened to me on my first try lol. Luckily I was able to find the cap and barrel arbor no problem

So I installed the new generic (allegedly) Swiss mainspring and... No real difference. The biggest difference I get is when I properly lubricate the escape wheel, and that's a pretty tough one to do, but a lot more fun than the shock settings, as there's little risk of losing something.

TODAY I took my old ST3600 that came with the Panerai, gave it a full clean in naphtha and alcohol, and assembled it with most of its original parts except the balance (as mentioned earlier, the spring came right off the stud, and that is an advanced repair, if possible at all)

This thing is running great so far! Testing timings immediately after building is kind of pointless as it takes about a day to get everything running smoothly, but I always check just to make sure something isn't fucked. And even at this point, the amplitude is in the 280's when the dial is flat! And this is with the old mainspring.. After final testing and regulation tomorrow, I'll stick that (alleged) Swiss spring in there and finally see if it makes a difference.

SkinnyPupp

03-02-2025, 06:05 PM

304 degrees dial up lol

https://i.imgur.com/IypMHgJ.png

This is on the border of TOO much. So it turns out the best result was from using parts from both movements? Interesting

Delta should still be in the 9 second range as usual (that's the time between the fastest and slowest position). From what I understand, out of the 6 main positions, you try to lean towards dial up, crown left (6 up), crown down (9 up) then narrowing down to 0/0 seconds per day, for best real world accuracy

This is the spec sheet for the original ETA 6497-2

https://i.imgur.com/YQbEkE2.png

So unless trying to get COSC certification, they test these 3 positions: CH = cadran (dial) high, 9H = 9 high, 6H = 6 high

Max delta for this movement is 15 seconds, so we're already ahead of that. We see the max amplitude is 320 so we're safe there.

Oh BTW I also modded my loupe by poking a few holes in it with a soldering iron. 2 wasn't quite enough, but 3 works great! I am going to go back and file the rough spots down.

It makes it a million times more usable, but I still prefer the 3.5x mag for both eyes when doing general assembly and disassembly. 5x and 12x really helps when doing fine work though. I will eventually get a microscope for that

03-02-2025, 11:57 PM

Good stuff. I don't have the patience for movement work and accuracy tuning. This is why I work on and sell vintage stuff as no one really cares how accurate they are lol

SkinnyPupp

03-03-2025, 12:28 AM

I've been trawling the Japanese auction sites for vintage watches, for my first vintage project, and also looking at getting one for my wife as a gift.

You can get some nice looking manual wind women's watches for around $100-150 USD. Men's go for much higher, which shows you who is buying these lol

Some listings say they are working, but who knows. I want to get her something pre-Quartz Swiss, from a brand that she's be familiar with as a normie. Omega is the obvious choice, and there's tons of options from them (second only to Seiko maybe). I'd consider Universal Geneve as well, as they have some beautiful watches from that era, and their brand has not gone down the shitter, more that it disappeared. Personally I'd be fine with a vintage Longines or Tissot or even Movado, but come on. She's not going to appreciate that LUL

Maybe this is just wishful thinking, and only something I should consider with much more experience though. I'll place some bids and see what happens.

03-03-2025, 03:46 PM

SkinnyPupp

03-03-2025, 04:02 PM

Search for vintage watch lots on ebay. Some decent projects on there for a good price. Just do buy the ones from Pakistan or India though

As for ladies watches, If you brought this up 2yrs ago, I would have sent you over a 1lb bag of watches lol. I was liquidating over 500 ladies watches for a watch hoarder friend. Tudor, Tissot, Longines, Omega & various other vintage ladies swiss branded watches. Couldn't get even $20/each for it. I get asked all the time to help someone sell off their grandmothers watch. Unless its solid gold or silver for scrap value, I dont touch it. Women dont buy used vintage watches
Damn let me know if you come across another decent granny watch LUL

I noticed that a lot of the ebay sellers are the same as the ones in Japan, but with a 60% markup. It's good because it gives another batch of buyer feedback

Currently eyeing a nice looking IWC in midnight blue for like $120. After a service and light polish (and on the crystal too) it should look really nice :considered:

I just don't know if I want to spend that much on my first attempt. I don't mind trashing one of those granny watches as I learn my way, but I wouldn't want to do it on something I actually want to keep

SkinnyPupp

03-04-2025, 08:31 PM

The downside of disassembling and assembling the same cheap $20 movement 30 times in a month

https://i.imgur.com/KdF6Pcb.png

So yeah, without tools to extract broken screws (or even a screw to replace it with) this bridge is toast

You can actually see right through the top of the screw LUL

It's totally fine; I have 3 more here. If it wasn't a cheap thing, this wouldn't have likely happened.

BTW I found out my sister has our grandpa's old pocket watch. I am begging her to send it to me to service lol. She says it runs but the crystal is "broken"

Eff-1

03-05-2025, 10:21 AM

I have no clue what is going on here, none of this stuff makes a lick of sense to me.

I just enjoy seeing someone pursuing his passion project and sharing stories with others. I may not understand it, just impressed by it.

https://i.postimg.cc/3J180N37/hedgehog.jpg

JDMDreams

03-05-2025, 10:00 PM

Hehe

03-05-2025, 10:45 PM

I should suggest that you buy a GoPro or something and turn this journey of yours into a YT/IG/X/TikTok thing.

There aren't a lot of channel that goes into the basic of Horology. Sure you have channels like Wristwatch Revival that's basically a pro doing his craft. But a channel that does short clips on stuff that explains it, like what does that timegrapher actually does or whatever.

You never know what it'd turn out. LockPickingLawyer started his channel as a way to show people his (amateur back then) work. And he grew into one of the biggest name in lockpicking.

Manic!

03-05-2025, 10:54 PM

You have probably already seen this but if you haven't it's an open source watch movement.

https://openmovement.org/

SkinnyPupp

03-06-2025, 12:43 AM

Are you doing this for fun? Have you dabbled into modding? Change dials, case, hands etc. Cuz even that seems too fiddly to me. And basically AliExpress watches are so cheap that it's not worth it to piece something together yourself if you even can + there's no resale cuz it's a bespoke watch with China quality parts.

From my experience unless you have a higher end Swiss watch like in-house ISH movements there's no point of servicing the movement cuz it will cost you more than harvesting a ETA from some glycine for like $200 and slapping it in. Seiko, china and miyota are pretty much throw away movements.

Also I've never really had to service a watch as my watches are relatively new, I rotate them, unless you drop it and it stops running.

But good on you for liking the mechanics of it, I just don't have the patience for something so fiddly.
I'm planning on doing this as a career. Modding or putting together a watch from parts bought on AliExpress or other websites hasn't really appealed to me. I am more into the idea of taking something that is of high quality but not in great condition, and getting it to run (and look) as close to brand new as possible. Servicing, repair, even fabrication eventually.

Some watches are "use it and throw it away goods", but that's not the case for everything. People who are buying a mechanical watch with its 400 year old technology over the latest smart watch or even like a G-Shock are generally interested in taking care of what they have. Especially if it costs thousands of dollars. Everyone who goes to the main watch thread, for instance, will care about their watch whether it's a Seiko or a Patek. The same people might have an Apple Watch they would be fine with giving away or throwing in a drawer once the planned obsoletion period is up.

Even with the newest oils, you will want to maintain your watch even if you don't wear it every day. The oil is going to eventually dry up and evaporate away whether it's running or not. And then on those occasions you do use it, your watch will not only not perform as well as it should, it could start generating wear and tear that could cause major issues in the future requiring work th at is a lot more expensive than a basic service. It's a mechanical device like a car - with moving parts that grind against each other, you need to keep it clean and lubricated. With a Seiko sure, run it into the ground and replacing the movement (as long as they're still around) will be the more cost effective way of dealing with it. Once they're not being made, you will be looking at old stock, and that stuff will have to be serviced too. Or you can just throw the watch away

Anyway, the industry is dying for new talent, and they are recruiting like crazy. My only issue is my age. Starting out in your 40's is a huge detriment, especially in countries where age discrimination laws don't exist. But if I keep worrying about that, I'll never succeed. I just have to learn the skill, get really good at it, and go from there. Either someone hires me, or I figure out another way to make it work for me.

Either way, this is something I am really passionate about, something that hasn't happened to me for like 20 years.

Qmx323

03-06-2025, 07:10 AM

Your avatar in a watch face with the arms as hands! GOGOGO

RabidRat

03-07-2025, 03:38 PM

Sorry to spam but I am super excited lol.

Man, I'M excited. Your passion for this is amazing.

You should think about capturing this journey on YouTube and monetizing this. It's a great formula: your genuine excitement for the craft, the fact that it's kind of esoteric, the backstory: the relatability of "I work a regular day job but I always wanted to do this and one day I just said fuck it. And it turned out better than I expected!"

SkinnyPupp

03-07-2025, 03:59 PM

Man, I'M excited. Your passion for this is amazing.

You should think about capturing this journey on YouTube and monetizing this. It's a great formula: your genuine excitement for the craft, the fact that it's kind of esoteric, the backstory: the relatability of "I work a regular day job but I always wanted to do this and one day I just said fuck it. And it turned out better than I expected!"
There's so many channels like that, from hobbyists. I plan on doing pretty intensive training, so I don't know if I'll have time to do videos

I am planning recording work, at the very least to keep track of how they are put together during disassembly.. So I will have footage

Vansterdam

03-07-2025, 10:45 PM

Put me down for one of these !

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UIKzKD6ATKI

headhunt3r

03-09-2025, 05:02 PM

Rb, do you service reps? I have a couple that needs some servicing. I'm in Coquitlam so I'm nearby.

SkinnyPupp

03-10-2025, 02:39 PM

Workshop is built and ready to go!

I may post a pic later when the sun comes up.. it doesn't look like much atm. I need to buy a clock for the room (waiting for the next Braun sale) and some posters. I have a Rolex ad saved I want to put up in there, and would LOVE to own this Panerai poster one day

https://perezcope.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/170613-panerai-timeline.jpg

I am waiting for a replacement movement to come in, as for some stupid reason I decided to open that shock spring without the Rodico backing it up, and of course it came out. I tried replacing it, but out of 3 spare springs I had, 2 broke and 1 flew out of orbit.

Lesson learned - ALWAYS use a piece of Rodico when changing that part.

Arriving along with the new movement is a new tool to make oiling these end jewels more efficient:

https://i.imgur.com/XzJfAl4.png

So basically, instead of taking the jewels apart, oiling one surface, and placing the chaton on top (hoping it doesn't spread the oil to the sides), with this you put the chaton on first, drop some oil onto it, and poke it through the hole with this needle.

The more common method is to use an automatic oiler which also has a small enough needle, but this is $12, those are $75

Probably could have sharpened a $4 regular oiler instead, but, *shrug* this has 3 extra tips. So this is 4 of those I guess you could say.

JDMDreams

03-10-2025, 03:21 PM

SkinnyPupp

03-10-2025, 03:45 PM

I'm just curious since you are in HK, will you even make enough to survive? Given how expensive HK is and how far Chinese watch making has come. Micro brands, Ali express watches, wouldn't everyone just send them over to China for cheaper labour service? Cuz if they can build them to this quality I'm sure they can service them too.
HK is the second biggest watch market in the world (so per capita it is insanely high), followed by China; I don't need to worry about people in America sending watches in for repair.

The Ali Express watches are functional, but not the market I am looking at serving. Ability to keep time shouldn't be confused with actual quality and long term service. And these are generally not items people would bother maintaining unless they have sentimental value. $15-50 movements are something to practice on, not something to earn a living working on at a small scale.

This may be off topic, but I don't think HK is particularly expensive compared to Vancouver. Some things are typically more expensive (rent, gas, electricity), some are less (basically everything else). On top of that, I think rent over there has caught up with here, based on what friends and family are paying (or renting out themselves). And it looks like groceries are getting up there too. Plus you get taxed like crazy

If I go the brand service technician route, salaries start at $70K USD and go up from there if I were to continue learning. Going beyond technician would likely involve moving to another country anyway (probably somewhere more expensive than HK lol).

We'll see where this goes. Right now I want to get good enough to confidently service peoples' watches with consistency, and without even having to think about fucking up like losing shock springs LUL

If I'm being honest, anything would be better than what I am doing now. I was able to make a pretty good living doing what I was doing from 1999-2014ish, including getting residual income from websites and selling my biggest one. But the internet and advertising isn't what it used to be, and honestly I relied on it too much for too long. I got complacent, and unmotivated for too long. Now I am highly motivated. If I can turn this focused passion into something before burning out, you won't believe what a huge deal that will be for me. It's been a long time since I've felt this way about life at all. Been coasting for too long

03-10-2025, 05:06 PM

Rb, do you service reps? I have a couple that needs some servicing. I'm in Coquitlam so I'm nearby.

I don't really work on rep movements as they can be extremely fragile. Its honestly cheaper to buy another movement from AliX and drop it in. Even if you have one of the higher end VSF or clean reps. I buy batteries from the watch place at Coq Center and he claims charge for $200 for a service, which is stupid cheap but I'm not sure if its quality work

Don't want to clutter up the thread so you can PM me

SkinnyPupp

03-13-2025, 09:24 PM

This morning I served and installed a new movement in my Panerai. The old one will be my work unit going forward, and I'm interested in seeing how performance of this movement can improve after service, after being used for around a year. I also took the opportunity to switch the strap from leather to rubber, since weather is warming up (once it gets too hot, I'm switching again to NATO)

https://i.imgur.com/FiXusqQ.jpeg

Tasks:

-Disassemble and clean new movement, polish pivots, oil shock settings (using the new tool you can see in the drawer above; the one in gold)

Have done this a hundred times by now, so it went smoothly. The new tool took some getting used to, but it will certainly by more consistent. The pin on this thing is smaller than an insulin needle, it's pretty impressive (and just as fiddly to install the needle as it is to work on the watch itself lol)

-Remove part of the pivot of the seconds wheel, polish and buff

This is because the 6497.2 (and ST3600 based on it) movements default is to have a seconds hand at 9, while this model doesn't have a seconds hand. If you install the dial over top of it, it will get squished down and prevent the movement from running. ETA makes a version of a wheel without the seconds hand pivot, but this is restricted to their clients. I've seen them around, for like $15. Instead, I cut the pivot shorter. In the past, I have done this while installed in the base plate, but that is unwise as it can crack the jewel or send metal shavings into the movement to cause issues

So I eyeballed where to cut it by comparing a wheel I have that I know works. I then held it in a pin vice (carefully), polished it down on 3000 grit diamond stone (carefully), then buffed it with an EVEFLEX pin. These are rubber buffing pins meant to be used in rotary tools, but you can stick them in a pin vice and buff pivots with them manually

https://i.imgur.com/FQebO7x.png

Lesson: I need a higher quality pin vice to allow for more precise control

-Assemble, and after 24 hours, regulate in 3 positions to get the delta and average time as low as possible

Results of that:

Dial High: -1s. 299 amp 0.1 ms
6 High: -3s 269 amp 0.0 ms
9 High: +5s 272 amp 0.2 ms

Delta: 6 seconds, average time: +0.33 seconds per day

-Remove old movement from casing, remove hands, remove case holders, remove dial, hour wheel, canon pinion.

Lesson: I need proper hand removal levers. I had a cheap presto tool that is not precise enough or even thin enough to properly fit under the hands. I scuffed up the hour hand. Can't see it with the naked eye, but there's my next tool to purchase.

-Grease center wheel pivot and install canon pinion, hour wheel, dial, properly align dial screws, clean and re-lube the stem

I didn't have any lubrication when I got this watch, so I took the opportunity to properly lube the parts that were missing it. Used Molykote DX as the grease

Lesson: Don't buy Molykote DX as your grease. It is technically MUCH cheaper because you're getting 50G for $12 instead of 5 ml of Moebius 9504 for $17. But in reality it will take forever to get through 5 ml of either, so really you're only saving $5. And Molykote DX is a bitch to clean as it leaves lithium residue on everything if it isn't cleaned very thoroughly.

-Install hands, place completed movement in case, install case brackets and screws and stem

This was the challenging part. The hands went on fine, but man one of the case clamps really gave me a hard time. The problem is there is only a tiny spot in between two bridges where it can fit, so it's tough to sneak it in there. And then once you do, you have to do the same thing again with a screw, hoping you don't push the clamp out of place. This was something where I felt like when I was done, I leveled up a bit in dexterity lol

-Use silicone grease on new gasket, install case back

Used a rubber ball to get a tight grip on the case back since I don't have a case opening/closing tool yet. Works fine!

And then I buffed the case with a microfiber cloth, installed the crown guard, strap, and that's it! Watch is running smoothly, case is nice and clean and shiny. After this coffee break, I'll time the old movement and see how it improves after a service.

The first picture is actually the old movement. Here is the new one being cased

https://i.imgur.com/eCu1c7U.jpeg

Can you tell the difference? Both are ST3600, both based on the 6497-2. However the first one is actually based on the Panerai OP XI caliber, which is based on the 6497-2. The new one is based on the stock ETA version. The only real difference is the bridge layout. The Panerai is a bit easier to deal with, since the escape wheel gets its own cock.

Jason00S2000

03-14-2025, 05:20 PM

Yo Skinny... why are watches so important to you?

SkinnyPupp

03-14-2025, 06:36 PM

Yo Skinny... why are watches so important to you?
Two of my favourite things are mechanics and history, so I get a double boner from watches

Jason00S2000

03-14-2025, 06:55 PM

Two of my favourite things are mechanics and history, so I get a double boner from watches

Can you share with us your favourite story about mechanics or history? :concentrate:

SkinnyPupp

03-14-2025, 07:33 PM

Can you share with us your favourite story about mechanics or history? :concentrate:
I wrote about it a lot in the other watch thread

SkinnyPupp

03-17-2025, 10:39 PM

First time taking apart the 2824-2, and of course I ping the click and its spring immediately LUL

I found the click right away, but it took me 20 minutes of crawling around on the floor trying to find the spring.. I go back to the movement to see if maybe it caught onto something there, and...

https://i.imgur.com/eOgYews.png

So yeah from now on I'll check the movement itself first :fuckthatshit:

It's challenging taking something apart for the first time without instructions, but fun. Now I know to be extra extra careful for components that have springs behind them. This is the only one on this movement, so it kind of slipped my mind.

6793026

03-18-2025, 06:07 AM

^ i know nothing about this but wouldn't it be nice to put a plexi glass over this / enclosed space so springs doesn't bounce around ur room.

68style

03-18-2025, 06:10 AM

It would be, but your arms and tools are coming at a movement from all types of angles so it would be tough to both have a cover and have enough access points to reach everything on the movement from all the angles you need to reach things from.

Also adds another layer of something distorting/obscuring view on pieces that already require magnification to see...

SkinnyPupp

03-18-2025, 06:15 AM

Yeah that would be tough. I know some people will put everything into a big ziplock bag when doing something that risks sending springs off into orbit. My issue here is that I didn't expect it, so off it went. Now I know what to watch for next time. And after working on this thing a few dozen times, it should be second nature

And then on to Rolex!

My workshop is really clean and there's not much in it, so finding parts shouldn't be an issue when it happens. That's why I thought it must still be on the movement itself if I couldn't find it after 15-20 minutes searching the floor.

That whole thing is about the size of a thumb print, so you can imagine how small the spring is. About the size of a nose hair. I thought this might be another case where I'd have to vacuum the room and search through the dirt with a magnet.

Badhobz

03-18-2025, 06:27 AM

cleanliness is next to godliness.... (if youre not a guangdong hoarder)

SkinnyPupp

03-18-2025, 09:16 PM

I was going to clean the 2824-2 last night but it was really greasy from the factory so I wanted to take my time.

Cleaning manually involves using naphtha to clean off all the grease, using an artist brush

https://i.imgur.com/AVtyhKK.png

(sorry for the blurry photo)

And when that is done, I rinse the parts twice in 99% isopropyl alcohol. After one rinse I use it a second time as a first rinse, with a fresh batch of alcohol for the second rinse, which becomes the first rinse next time (I hope that makes sense)

https://i.imgur.com/qAxQJRF.png

Parts are then dried in a food dehydrator at 55C. If this is not done, the alcohol will absorb moisture in the air as it evaporates, causing condensation and then rust.

https://i.imgur.com/IVo0fEK.png

I ordered a tripod so I will be able to take video soon (if it doesn't become a hassle I may share some here)

SkinnyPupp

03-18-2025, 10:26 PM

So I wasn't so lucky this time with the flying spring FeelsBadMan

Good thing I have a Taobao order getting ready to ship out. Ordered 10 replacements EleGiggle (costs about $2)

SkinnyPupp

03-19-2025, 05:50 AM

So today I learned how technical communication sheets can vary based on manufacturer. Some are good, some are really bad.

The movement I'm working on is a Chinese clone of the ETA 2824-2. An even more common clone (probably more than ETA itself by now) is the Sellita SW200-1. That was the easier document to find, so I used it.

This is the part I got to before losing the spring:

https://i.imgur.com/vfrAnQz.png

If you can follow along, it gives you the order of parts installed. I cropped out the relevant parts - they start with 420 (crown wheel), screw it in with 5420 (crown wheel screw) then 425 (click) and 430 (click spring)

Let me tell you now - to do it in this order is literally impossible. You can probably tell from the picture itself - once the crown wheel is installed, there's no way you can install anything underneath it. I don't know what they're thinking. At this point, experience would kick in and a watchmaker would use that to choose the correct order. But the whole point of a manual is that you shouldn't need to use intuition or guesses.

Here's the ETA version:

https://i.imgur.com/6CxKRqm.png

It starts with 17 (click) and then 18 (click spring) followed by 19 (crown wheel) and 902 Var (crown wheel screw). Based on videos, it's easier to install the spring before the click, but this at least is physically possible (this is the method I tried, using a technique I would with the 6497-2 I worked on a million times, and lost the spring). Also the graphic is clearer and easier to follow.

Anyway, there's my .. learning how to deal with poorly designed technical documents. Needless to say, I'll be using the ETA one from now on LUL Eventually I'll have the experience to know that something is fucky.

I'll put everything together tomorrow except for the crown wheel/click mechanism, but the watch won't wind until I get that click spring in. That will be Friday at earliest.

And then I'll tear it down and reassemble a few dozen times until it's automatic for me. LFG! POGGERS

(oh yeah, this thread is going to be filled with random bullshit like this)

68style

03-19-2025, 06:39 AM

That's pretty interesting that the manual for the movement is written up in the wrong order. Seems kind of ridiculous, surprised nobody has ever revised it. Sure makes the learnng part hard if you don't have a natural intuition about it working on the assumption that the masters have spoken lol

RabidRat

03-19-2025, 06:54 AM

I ordered a tripod so I will be able to take video soon (if it doesn't become a hassle I may share some here)

What I'm really looking forward to is a voiceover, if you're willing! That organic, unforced drive and joy over the painstaking discovery you're doing is what I think would set your channel apart.

SkinnyPupp

03-19-2025, 01:25 PM

What I'm really looking forward to is a voiceover, if you're willing! That organic, unforced drive and joy over the painstaking discovery you're doing is what I think would set your channel apart.
My voice is not a pleasant one to listen to

Maybe I could do the voiceover with AI LUL

bcrdukes

03-19-2025, 02:56 PM

Turn it into a girl's voice. :pokerface:

Edit: So many posts to catch up on but here is a "Thanks" in advance. Keep up the great work and sharing your adventures with us! :)

68style

03-19-2025, 03:26 PM

Just narrate in a voice impression of how you think Badhobz sounds in real life based on his posts.

SkinnyPupp

03-19-2025, 03:33 PM

Just narrate in a voice impression of how you think Badhobz sounds in real life based on his posts.
Are you trying to get me Cancelled?

bcrdukes

03-19-2025, 04:35 PM

Read one of my signature posts out loud and see how that goes. :lol

SkinnyPupp

03-21-2025, 01:56 AM

Pretty proud of myself today. Yesterday I rebuilt the 2824-2 using the ETA manual (after failing with the Selitta manual), and today I did a teardown and rebuild without having to use the manual for like 90-95% of the movement.

Having a calendar makes it quite a bit more complicated, especially in the keyless works area (for setting the date without having to move the time 24 hours for each day).

https://i.imgur.com/pB48HB1.png

The parts in the bottom left portion of the container are for the calendar works and keyless works (and a couple parts for time setting). Quite a few extra parts to remember! I hope to be able to do it without the manual next time. I'll pay extra attention during disassembly.

Also I can't test the function of the watch yet until the new spring arrives tomorrow. That one tiny nose hair sized spring prevents everything from running!

In the meantime, I did a full service of the 6497-2 and it seemed huge in comparison! I can disassemble and reassemble that thing very quickly now, and have it running with good amplitude and timing.

SkinnyPupp

03-27-2025, 10:13 PM

If you thought servicing a quartz watch would be extremely simple, think again

https://i.imgur.com/UBptzIz.png

(Someone kindly donated a watch and I'll see if I can get it working in new condition)

A 30 year old watch sounds like a lot until you realize that was the late 90's :okay:

SkinnyPupp

04-24-2025, 02:31 AM

I've gotten pretty good with the 2824-2 now, and can get it running at 300+ amp, really good timing consistently (I have one ready for regulation tonight). I can oil the shock jewels consistently, installing springs without losing them, etc.

I disassembled my first Miyota and holy shit. This is going to be a challenge! It's hard to explain, but you can tell that it's not really meant to be serviced the way Swiss movements are. It can still be done of course, but it's not really designed to be convenient. We'll see I guess.

I got a new multimeter, and all the coils in the TAG Heuer tested out ok, so for now I assume it just needs a service to get all the hands running and resetting properly. I'll do that this week and see how it goes. I bought a small amount of oil that is specifically called for quartz movements (0.5 ml, no joke, but that's plenty enough)

SkinnyPupp

04-25-2025, 01:17 AM

So sure enough, I broke the pivot on a wheel :fuckthatshit:

I'll show you why this thing is such a pain to work with

On most watches, there are 2 or 3 bridges you need to install, which have holes that line up with 2 or 3-4 pivots each. This makes it easy to line everything up. I'll show the 6497-2 clone as an example. This is actually Panerai's refreshed version of it from the 90's:

https://i.imgur.com/yOg6HLx.png

You can see at the top there is the barrel bridge, which only needs to line up with the barrel in this case. Below that is the train wheel bridge, which lines up with 3 pivots (you can see the jewels). Below that are two cocks (yes Badhobz that's what they're called) one of which is dedicated to the escape wheel (the original ETA version moves some things around and has 2 bridges)

This is especially important on older designs, or low end manufactures, because the tolerances are loose making it hard to get so many tiny pivots to line up. Spreading them across 2 or 3 bridges means only having to line up a few shitty pivots at a time.

There are high end single bridge designs, called 3/4 bridge. But with super tight tolerances, these are pretty easy to get lined up.

Well the Miyota puts everything under one bridge:

https://i.imgur.com/LvdC0RU.png

Along with the balance cock, there's the one bridge with SIX pivots to line up, plus the barrel. And tolerances are good, but not that good, so it takes a lot of patience to line things up. To make matters worse, there is a spring underneath it, pushing down on the center pinion, so even if it's lined up perfectly it won't just settle into place on its own.

So yeah while these are serviceable, it's clear that they aren't really designed to be worked on often. This has more to do with the fact that they are so cheap to replace, it makes more sense to do that than to service them. But there you go.. It's possible, but a real pain to do.

It's a real challenge! I'll have to order some replacement wheels and try again later. I might take that center spring off first to see if that helps during practice

SkinnyPupp

11-09-2025, 01:23 AM

Got a new toy today POGGERS

https://i.imgur.com/2oulSO5.png

Also brought in some other new tools to upgrade my work, including an automatic oiler, something I should have gotten right away. Also an ultrasonic cleaner. I almost died because when I first tested it, it completely freaked my cat out, who was sleeping nearby. He got up, and just sort of started twitching and freaking out. We thought he was having a stroke or a seizure of some sort, but it turned out he was just scared awake by a sound we can't hear. It took a long time, but he calmed down and is back to normal. I tested it in another room, and he seemed to be fine with it. Fucking scared me man, I don't know what I would have done.

Anyway, also got a Rolex superclone movement, and have a vintage 70's Omega coming in. It's a women's movement, so will be ridiculously small and these are not very accurate, but it's a cheap way to work on quality vintage movements. Also I am thinking of restoring or refreshing a watch for my wife as a gift, and this is a common one for that era so I want to start working on it now.

I also started wearing reading glasses at times, because... you know. That age

That's my update for now! The microscope is trinocular, so I can attach a camera to it

Badhobz

11-09-2025, 11:06 AM

SkinnyPupp

11-09-2025, 04:18 PM

1) your workspace is so clean. i love it. NOT GUANGDONG HOARDER.

2) when are you gonna start doing custom work so we can buy it!??!?!?!

3) maybe you can go bigger and start working on vintage clocks and stuff... would be kinda cool to see those desktop clocks get revamped / customized. i think you might have a market with that as everyone just throws on a lame LED quartz clock nowadays.
Yeah this is the one room in my home that I keep clean and tidy, with a lot of effort. Makes it easier to find parts that go flying

I think I am going to stick to repair and restoration, rather than fabricating dials and cases etc. If that's what you mean?

Clock repair is definitely something I'd be interested in. Might pick something up to see what it's like. Should be a lot easier if anything, since everything is bigger

EvoFire

11-09-2025, 06:52 PM

Bit of a thread hijack, but what's your opinion on Twemco clocks?

SkinnyPupp

11-09-2025, 06:57 PM

Bit of a thread hijack, but what's your opinion on Twemco clocks?
Very cool classic analog clocks, including perpetual. But very expensive!

JDMDreams

11-09-2025, 08:15 PM

So how much should a service cost let's say on a 7750? And would you do relume?

SkinnyPupp

11-09-2025, 08:47 PM

I'm nowhere close to servicing watches for people yet, sorry. I am going to put in many months of practice before ever attempting to do work. But I will eventually be able to (as long as it's a real 7750), including relume!

SkinnyPupp

12-01-2025, 08:07 PM

Here's that Omega women's watch I ordered. Taking it apart now for cleaning.

Grain of rice for scale

https://i.imgur.com/HmI67Px.png

SkinnyPupp

12-12-2025, 02:48 AM

First vintage service completed! Long ago actually

I didn't run into any issues; thanks to the microscope, the tiny size wasn't a problem at all. Well the weird shaped pallet fork was a bit tricky. One of the shock springs came out on me, but it was easy to put back in (this is NOT the case with Chinese springs, which I'll get to some other time)

I didn't mention the condition when it came in, but it was in 'barely running' condition. Meaning the balance was not broken, but there was enough wrong with it that it wouldn't run for more than a few seconds. And when it did, obviously the timegrapher was a 'snowstorm' so it wasn't keeping time

As it turned out, all it needed was a full service. Teardown, full clean (scrub in naphtha with brush to dissolve all the caked up oil and grime, rinse in alcohol, placed in water based cleaning fluid, run through ultrasonic cleaner for 10 minutes, rinse in water, rinse in 99% alcohol, dry). Cleaned the balance and pallet fork and jewels separately in hexane. Also inspected the pivots and jewels to confirm nothing bent or broken or still dirty. I didn't touch the mainspring. There were a couple spots of rust, but nothing in a place that would affect performance

https://i.imgur.com/fssPkMs.jpeg

After that, and proper lubrication, it's running quite well. Small movements like this, even good quality ones, are not as accurate as larger ones. So with that in mind, this old Omega 485 keeps good time in all positions, with a delta of just 14 seconds. Maybe I should find the rest of a watch!

Next on the bench is a Rolex 3135 superclone, which I had to order parts for unfortunately (there's that Chinese spring issue, which has been a problem for me since day 1 starting out)

After that, I think I'll be ready to tackle the Tag Heuer quartz chronograph that a super awesome revscener donated to me quite a while ago. Having worked under the microscope for a while now, I think I'm ready to tackle that. I posted a screenshot from the technical manual a while ago, and you can see why I put it off until I got some more practice with smaller movements. It has similar issues to the Omega actually, where everything is just a bit sticky, including the pushers. I think a service and lubrication will be enough to bring it back.

68style

12-12-2025, 08:56 AM

I've got a vintage Seiko Sport 5 that doesn't work... I really like the watch aesthetically but from the moment I bought it off eBay it was obvious some Gurpreet in India didn't fix it right.. lesson learned.

I would be willing to mail it to you if you wanted to take a run at it?

SkinnyPupp

12-12-2025, 03:00 PM

I could give it a shot! If the movement is toast it wouldn't be too much to get a replacement either. PM me

Gumby

12-12-2025, 07:55 PM

68style

12-13-2025, 06:50 AM

I’ll let you know, I don’t live in Vancouver anymore tho and not sure when lll be back next!

SkinnyPupp

12-16-2025, 09:23 PM

In preparation for 68style's incoming Seiko, I have my first Seiko on the bench! It's a new NH36A, straight from Malaysia or wherever they make them now (probably China I imagine). It won't be the same as his, but it will be based on it so I'd like to get familiar with it first.

https://i.imgur.com/5g45c3g.png

It's definitely different from the Swiss based movements I've worked on so far, and comes across as something made by and for machines to work on. One giveaway are the massive screw slots, intended for use by machines. This meant I had to grind down my screwdriver to fatten it up for a better fit.

I was shocked at how much oil and grease there was all over the place. We're taught to use miniscule amounts of each, so it doesn't spread all over the place. This thing had tons of grease throughout the keyless work. Not that it was spreading on its own - it was all where it was supposed to be. There was just a lot of it.

https://i.imgur.com/qfqrcOG.png

There's so many parts, I have to use two parts trays. Going to degrease it, clean it, and put it back together

The regulation out of the box was not great, with a delta of 25 seconds, and 1ms beat error. This is all within spec, but the spec is pretty wide and I should be able to improve it. Remember that 50 year old ladies watch was also around 20 seconds!

Badhobz

12-17-2025, 01:19 PM

SkinnyPupp

12-17-2025, 02:23 PM

Are the Seikos easier or harder to work on ? The way you put it, it sounds like they are more industrial/robust and less ornate than the swiss movements. I guess that translates into reliability….

Most of my seikos all have movements made in malaysia or vietnam. Hardly see one made in japan other than the Grand seikos
This one is a bit less user friendly, because they place some of the automatic winding components onto the train wheel bridge. So you have take that bridge off, flip it over and take more parts off of it, including some pretty fiddly components, and the tiniest shock jewels you'll see instead of simple cups. The "Swiss" movements I have worked on have placed the winding works on its own module that sits on the underside of the movement. Also a lot of the gear train is stacked on top of each other, so you have to get your oiling done in order during assembly, whereas with more human-friendly designs you can generally do the oiling once the train is assembled. That's been my very short experience with ETA and Rolex and Omega at least

But it's good in that there aren't a bunch of tiny springs in there. Only a couple springs, and they're attached to other, bigger parts

The calendar has a lot of parts too, but that's pretty common.

The most annoying part was getting the winding stem in with the pinion, clutch, AND another setting wheel, with nothing to set them on. This guy makes it look easy here (timestamped)

https://youtu.be/eNfBEVCF9f4?t=109

RabidRat

12-17-2025, 06:00 PM

Watching that shaky-handed assembly gives me anxiety.

Does he have particularly trembly hands, or does it look like that for basically everybody when it's at this scale?

bcrdukes

12-17-2025, 06:20 PM

I think it's like that when it's at this scale.

SkinnyPupp

12-17-2025, 07:26 PM

Yeah I don't think he's particularly stable, but anyone who would be rock solid doing that fiddly procedure at that magnification would probably have become a surgeon instead of a watchmaker LUL

Badhobz

12-17-2025, 08:56 PM

SkinnyPupp

12-17-2025, 09:14 PM

Wait a minute…. 69style sent you something to work on ? His seiko? Whats wrong with his seiko?

Dont you have to pay taxes or something if the customs retards find it? They might think youre trying to import a grey market watch and/or counterfit.
He's sending his 70's Seiko for me to look at. Except for alcohol and tobacco there's no duties in Hong Kong, you should know that!

12-18-2025, 03:49 AM

Aiya.. 68Style bought an eBay India special?

Old 7s movements parts are harder to find so I usually just upgrade them to nh35/36 movements if the case can fit it. NH35/36 movements are getting pricey so beware of knockoffs now.

SkinnyPupp

12-18-2025, 04:10 AM

Oh yeah you're right. I bought this NH36 for ￥230 RMB and now it's listed for ￥280. A Miyota 8215 I got also went up, from ￥140 to ￥152

I've seen the China NH35's listed on AliExpress, but not taobao yet. At least they're labeling them properly. It's really easy to tell anyway, assuming the pictures are accurate.

I've found a few shops on taobao that have been reliable for me, even buying Swiss stuff. I've found so far that in general you get what you pay for. Choose the cheapest stuff, you'll get the cheapest stuff. Pay a bit more, and you'll get better products and service.

I guess we can look into swapping the movement if 68 is interested. I haven't looked into that yet, is it pretty straight forward?

SkinnyPupp

12-18-2025, 04:19 AM

Back to that VS 3135, like many Chinese shock springs, these things fall out so easily. They are like KIF springs, so I stupidly tried to use the same method to reinstall, and it broke the spring. Nobody seems to carry the 'domestic' springs, so the choice was to either buy an original Rolex spring, or just get a new balance complete for the same price. So I did the latter

Wouldn't you believe it, another spring came out during installation, even though I had Rodico over it! Will be extra extra careful next time. This time I used a different method to reinstall it, and had no problem getting it back in. I was lucky too - it flew onto the ground, and I found it pretty much right away. It really pays to keep the workshop clean and clutter free as possible.

On top of that, one of the screwed broke (it's as soft as plastic) so I replaced that as well, buying a spare just in case. Good thing I did, because the other similar screw broke as well.

Anyway it runs well now. I'll regulate it tomorrow; it should be a bit better than when it came in.

Here's it is being recorded in slow motion to determine lift angle. You can see the mark I made on the balance to measure how much it rotates. Lift angle confirmed at 52 degrees.

https://streamable.com/v366bh

Badhobz

12-18-2025, 05:03 AM

He's sending his 70's Seiko for me to look at. Except for alcohol and tobacco there's no duties in Hong Kong, you should know that!

no no no, not for HK, i mean when you send it back to him.

SkinnyPupp

12-18-2025, 05:21 AM

no no no, not for HK, i mean when you send it back to him.
It's a $5 watch, how much taxes would there be!

68style

12-18-2025, 06:27 AM

I live in AB anyway, nothing's ever more than 5% so who cares.

Yah it was from eBay but the seller had their location as USA and then suddenly I get tracking# it's coming from India. Lame. I knew there'd be problems as soon as I saw that.

12-18-2025, 03:19 PM

Ebay's money back guarantee is pretty good for buyers. For sellers, It completely sucks as I've been burned a few times

SkinnyPupp

12-25-2025, 03:02 PM

Good news, I got a camera for my microscope! I have to keep an eye on it though, as it is cropped differently from my view

Here I am installing the train wheel bridge on this Seagull 2824. You can see it's pretty beat up as I have been working on it for many months, mostly before I had a scope. I also have a HKT version which runs better and has better finishing on the wheels.

https://streamable.com/jp6i8i

SkinnyPupp

12-30-2025, 12:23 AM

Look at what arrived in the mail today!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G9Z845ebgAA1UIn.jpg

I quickly took a look at it, and here are my initial findings

First of all, I'm pretty sure this is not a Seiko watch. The Seiko 7009A movement is real, but the (brass) case, dial, and hands are not original.

Since those parts are pretty new, that stuff was in mostly good condition.

The movement is in pretty rough shape though

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G9Z_ZA4aYAA5PPH.jpg

You can see lots of scratches and crud everywhere, and someone scratched in a giant "N" under the balance wheel (or is it a "Z"?). That might even be rust down there to the left of the "N", I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

But it runs, and the calendar seems to be working, so we should be able to get it running in a usable way. How well does it keep time?

https://streamable.com/1jmdd5

Not too bad actually. The current rate is less relevant in terms of repair, but you can see that it clearly isn't keeping good enough time to be useful, gaining 3-4 minutes each day. It's not magnetized. More concerning for me is the amplitude and beat error, both of which I'll try to improve with the service. But as off as the timekeeping is, the lines are straight and parallel, meaning there's probably nothing seriously wrong with the balance or wheels. Everything is probably just extremely dirty, but I'll take a closer look.

Another issue is that the automatic winder doesn't work well:

https://streamable.com/aekqf5

You can see that the pawl levers are not able to rotate the reduction wheel with a light spin, so this does not wind the watch. It does work with more force (like shaking the watch while assembled) but this will need to be looked at as well

So yeah.. this thing is real dirty

https://streamable.com/ub6upz

But it's going to be as clean as new after service. I just hope I can get everything else running well. Should be a fun project! Will keep you guys updated

SkinnyPupp

12-30-2025, 11:34 PM

Cleaned up some of the crud

First went in and scrubbed off the thickest nastiest gunk with a stick

https://streamable.com/dndhu1

https://streamable.com/pln2fo

Then scrubbed everything down in naphtha, which dissolves oil

https://streamable.com/q5a467

After that it gets rinsed in alcohol, then cleaned in a watch cleaning solution for 20 minutes in an ultrasonic cleaner. Then rinsed in water, rinsed in 99% alcohol, and dried.

I think this is about as clean as it's going to get. Lots of marks and exposed brass here

https://streamable.com/9en38e

I also cleaned the case and even the screws. Jewels, balance and pallet fork will be cleaned separately in a safer solution.

Now time for inspection and reassembly

Badhobz

12-31-2025, 06:40 AM

this is NUTS!!!! very interesting. i feel like im blind just watching you work on these tiny things... i get nervous touching tiny things with my big ole ham hock hands.

68style

12-31-2025, 12:53 PM

Fascinating stuff, I found when I wound and set the time… it just stopped after about 30 minutes or less just FYI… so I’m not confident about it running right

SkinnyPupp

12-31-2025, 01:07 PM

Fascinating stuff, I found when I wound and set the time… it just stopped after about 30 minutes or less just FYI… so I’m not confident about it running right
It probably wasn't getting a full enough wind due to that automatic winder not really working. That's the only way to wind these without opening them up; normally you have to shake your watch for like 30 seconds to get it going, but with this one you would probably have to go for much longer. As you can see, it badly needed a service anyway

I'll be checking to see if the parts are worn out and need to be replaced, or if they were just dirty. Replacements are like 1-3 RMB for these parts

SkinnyPupp

12-31-2025, 02:27 PM

this is NUTS!!!! very interesting. i feel like im blind just watching you work on these tiny things... i get nervous touching tiny things with my big ole ham hock hands.
It's weird because with magnification, it feels like everything is just really big, and with good tweezers it's not that hard to manipulate the small parts properly.

An issue I still have is despite that, physics and gravity don't increase in size, so things go flying a lot easier. And when they do, it can be impossible to find them.

EvoFire

12-31-2025, 03:21 PM

He said the watch came in India, so it's a re-shelled movement that some one probably broke the face glass on?

All that curry crud?

SkinnyPupp

12-31-2025, 04:59 PM

That movement could be anywhere between 30-50 years old. It was probably taken out of an old watch and slapped into that aftermarket case with aftermarket dial and hands and sold on ebay without cleaning or servicing it since it was running. This could have happened several times over! You can see it has been worked over quite a bit, but clearly not as carefully as I am treating it lol

A couple of the springs have some black hard crust on them that won't come off, which I don't even know what it is. I'll take a closer look to see if it's rust. If it is I may have to remove it, or else it will continue to spread

Do you remember where it came from 68?

SkinnyPupp

01-01-2026, 11:40 PM

Inspecting parts to see if there's anything that is so trashed it can't be useable. Of particular interest is the auto winding system "MagicLever" as that wasn't working when it came

I put each onto a brass plate, and inspect it under high magnification with titanium tweezers. These metals are as soft or softer than the parts being worked on, so they will resist scratching.

First up is the ratchet wheel, part of the winding system that was not clicking over

https://streamable.com/0bj1is

It looks pretty beat, but should be OK. There's no missing or worn gears, but there's a touch of rust

Looking at the pawl lever and reduction wheel, these look real rough

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G9o8C5jaMAMKgaN.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G9o7-sBa4AA1tJT.jpg

These should be replaced.

I did test them out, and they do work though. So just cleaning them was enough

https://streamable.com/yz951b

Inspection continued, and we ran into an issue:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G9pBj_JbgAA-Yq6.jpg

The center wheel is cracked! This will be replaced

68style

01-02-2026, 02:57 PM

Yah I think I mentioned above the seller had their location as USA but suddenly after I bought the tracking said it was coming from India… was hoping it would still work being. A Seiko and practically indestructible but alas no such luck hahaha although I can definitely see why given the poor condition of everything inside!

I hope it’s proving to be valuable experience, feels super professional now with the photos you’re able to take.

SkinnyPupp

01-02-2026, 03:14 PM

It'll be working fine don't worry!

RabidRat

01-03-2026, 10:24 AM

These inspection reports that come with photos and video seems like a huge added value that I bet enthusiasts would happily pay a premium for.

Gumby

01-03-2026, 11:03 AM

All these replacement parts - do you keep a wide variety on hand? I can only imagine that there is a huge assortment of springs, gears, cogs etc.

bcrdukes

01-03-2026, 12:14 PM

These inspection reports that come with photos and video seems like a huge added value that I bet enthusiasts would happily pay a premium for.

Are you referring to a post purchase inspection? :lol

SkinnyPupp

01-03-2026, 02:57 PM

All these replacement parts - do you keep a wide variety on hand? I can only imagine that there is a huge assortment of springs, gears, cogs etc.
I don't have anything other than the movements I've worked on since starting this thread. But it's easy to get parts for common movements like Seiko and the more common Swiss movements, even older parts like this. With the newer ones you often have the choice of getting original parts or replicas

That new wheel will cost about $1 plus another $1 for shipping

SkinnyPupp

01-09-2026, 11:28 PM

I can't remember if I shared this, but one of the first things that happened to the first Seagull ST3600 I bought, is that the balance wheel simply fell off during reassembly! I assumed I must have been too rough with it, but as it turned out, there was insufficient adhesive on the stud to keep the hairspring in place.

So into a box it went, as I continued to work on its replacement. In the back of my mind, I wanted to come back to it once my skills (and magnification) were up to the task. So I took a stab at it today, with some UV glue, and a working balance for reference.

Here's the balance cock with balance removed (well it fell out). No trace of glue on the stud:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-Scxl5asAcuZc_.jpg

Regulator pin is closed on the end, so the hairspring will need to be slotted in from the side:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-Scxl0asAEwqGc.jpg

Hairspring is threaded through the regulator. I used a working balance to aim the roller jewel in the right direction, with the intention of fine tuning later:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-ScpP2a4AA33Zl.jpg

I used UV glue, applied by a red oiler:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-ScpKHb0AEnVvu.jpg

My improvised UV curing setup

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-ScpKIbYAA4Av3.jpg

Initial timings look promising! I got it to 1.1 just by eyeballing it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-ScpKJasAAU-Bp.jpg

My only goal was to get it within spec roughly in one position. I'll look at the rest later

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G-Scxl9boAAtD8M.jpg

I guess the main thing I learned during this time is that using a microscope has completely changed what I can do, in every task related to watch repair it can be applied to. I feel like I have really good control over the smallest parts, as long as I can see it clearly. I was struggling quite a bit using loupes.

SkinnyPupp

01-21-2026, 12:15 AM

Installed some new parts into 68's watch. These are not all original Seiko parts

The mainspring was toast. You can see at least two major kinks in it, and there were little kinks all along the spring. This means it was totally fatigued and needed to be replaced.

https://i.imgur.com/RjYFqqy.png

You can see the big kink better here:

https://i.imgur.com/efMNuVt.png

As I showed earlier, the second reduction wheel was gone, with a lot of the teeth shredded over 50 years of use. Here's the new one

https://i.imgur.com/L0doCJo.png

Also the cracked center wheel was swapped out. This one looks different but it's the same part number:

https://i.imgur.com/gp7diIU.png

I wanted to replace the pawl lever with an upgraded jeweled one, but unfortunately the new one didn't fit right. It would slip under the wheel when working a specific direction. So the original went back in. It wasn't in too bad shape, and works fine:

https://i.imgur.com/ishCITy.png

Also changed the movement washer

https://i.imgur.com/2f1erjS.png

Watch is currently running again, and initial readings look really good, with great amplitude in the 260-270 range. Will update when beat error and regulation is complete!

68style

01-21-2026, 08:13 AM

SkinnyPupp

01-21-2026, 04:18 PM

Incredible work, that main spring is fascinating, I wouldn't know the first thing to do with it, I know it's magnified a tremendous amount but thinking of how to curl that all up inside the watch is an instant nope for me lol
In the top picture you can see the mainspring winder I use. It winds up into that tool:

https://i.imgur.com/uNpBH03.png

Then gets pushed into the barrel while it is wound up:

https://streamable.com/8crfpl

That tool was like 10 RMB ($1.40 USD) and works great!. The Swiss ones are about $70 for each size. If I did a lot more work I'd use those. The Chinese ones come in specific sizes for popular movements, rather than just various sizes that fit. Kind of dumb because they don't make one for the most popular movement that people start out on.

SkinnyPupp

01-21-2026, 08:01 PM

Watch ran overnight, so the winding mechanism is confirmed to work.

Working on regulation now. This thing might run better than a brand new Seiko when I'm done!

https://streamable.com/ee9kgh

Here's the original (remembering that it had to be manually wound when I received it)

https://streamable.com/1jmdd5

68style

01-22-2026, 08:20 PM

Its crazy how much cleaner it looks too... like under a microscope I'm sure you can still see some scratches etc but seeing it sitting there out of zoom it look newer than new

SkinnyPupp

01-24-2026, 10:51 PM

Got a new tool FeelsGoodMan

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_ftRNMasAAGhST.jpg

By the way 68:

https://streamable.com/z6el53

I performed all these diagnostics, checking the battery, checking the coil, checked the solar panel, the capacitor, etc. I thought I was stumped until I looked at the technical document and saw there was one screw missing from the battery guard. I knew you'd mentioned it, but being new to working on watches, it didn't occur to me that it was a particularly important screw that was used to ground the main connection. (I should have noticed that there was a "(-)" marking right beside it however) So I moved a screw from the train bridge to the battery guard, and it worked 4Head

I'll see if I can find a screw that fits for the train bridge. You won't want to operate the watch for very long without that. (I took it out right away)

68style

01-25-2026, 07:42 AM

Hahaha see man geez I lost that tiniest of tiny screw when I was replacing the battery and I was working over a shag rug, I even took the table and chairs off the rug and turned it upside down to shake it out I could never find the damn thing no matter how long I spend on my hands and knees with a flash light :rukidding:

Badhobz

01-25-2026, 07:43 PM

Got a new tool FeelsGoodMan

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_ftRNMasAAGhST.jpg

Finally something that i can use to measure my..... uhhh FeelsGoodMan

SkinnyPupp

01-25-2026, 07:53 PM

Finally something that i can use to measure my..... uhhh FeelsGoodMan
It's not one of those $1000 Japanese ones so its tolerance is only like 0.02mm, so I'm not sure if you'd get an accurate reading

Badhobz

01-25-2026, 07:54 PM

thats generous, thank you!

SkinnyPupp

01-27-2026, 10:36 PM

Up and running!

https://i.imgur.com/6nWXyWi.png

Getting perfect timekeeping was maybe a bit overambitious, but it's running well enough.

I am not used to wearing such small watches, so it looks absolutely tiny on me LUL

Also I don't really have a suitable strap for this, so black rubber will have to do. I want to wear it around and see how it runs after a few days

SkinnyPupp

01-28-2026, 03:41 AM

My next project:

https://i.imgur.com/NOKmNhU.png

My first chronograph POGGERS

Also have a vintage manual wind Seiko coming over from Japan. It's cheap, no idea how fixable it'll be

RabidRat

01-28-2026, 10:26 AM

I guess the main thing I learned during this time is that using a microscope has completely changed what I can do, in every task related to watch repair it can be applied to. I feel like I have really good control over the smallest parts, as long as I can see it clearly. I was struggling quite a bit using loupes.

We have these eyepiece -less microscopes at work. They're kinda pricey but so much less strain to use.

Maybe your next splurge, when you make it big :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd5L87CKdI

edit: we actually have the Lynx Evos, but there wasn't a good video for those. YMMV with these newer ones!

68style

01-28-2026, 07:25 PM

SkinnyPupp

01-28-2026, 07:45 PM

Maybe it would be fine with a bracelet, but I think 36mm is too small for me either way.. The zoomed in view of typical wrist shots make watches look WAY bigger than they are, including this one! My wrists are just under 8"

The rubber strap does make it look extra stupid though LUL

Watch is running nicely so far! I am pretty proud of the results. I put a new gasket in too (there was none before) but it's definitely not waterproof! Keep that in mind when you get it back

SkinnyPupp

02-11-2026, 01:52 AM

The old Seiko arrived from Japan! It is in quite good condition - the dial looks great, the case and crystal need a polish. The strap is falling apart but I don't know if it was original

https://i.imgur.com/bhewNL3.png

The movement looks great. The watch is not running, but importantly the balance is in good condition. It appears to be overbanked, but the pivots are not broken. This is why the watch was like $45. In good condition they for for around $250 on ebay.

https://i.imgur.com/99rjx5f.png

Can't wait to dive into it tomorrow POGGERS

Edit: Yup the mainspring is broken, just need to replace it. These are not meant to be serviced, so it's tricky to get into them. I saw somewhere that you can use compressed air to pop them open, and that sounds like the best idea. Razor blades can work, but there is a 0% chance to not leave a mark. I used one on 68's because it looks like it had been opened up that way on several occasions over the years

Based on the condition of all the screws, etc, I don't think this watch had ever been worked on before. It definitely got worn, but I'm pretty sure this is its first service ever!

SkinnyPupp

02-27-2026, 12:11 AM

Seiko + smoker + 50 years + mesh bracelet + Elma 1:9 = tea

https://i.imgur.com/CJFG8v1.jpeg

I bought this for its parts for the watch above (it cost as much as buying the mainspring itself - about $15 USD) but it smelled so bad that it stunk up my workshop when I uncased the movement. So I figured I would finish off this jar of cleaner that was nearly done, and yeah.. it's DONE.

The case actually cleaned up real nice, but the dial is pretty bad

Gumby

02-27-2026, 12:30 AM

Watching Skinnypupp work on these watches reminds me of ant man in the quantum realm :lol

SkinnyPupp

02-27-2026, 03:26 AM

Watching Skinnypupp work on these watches reminds me of ant man in the quantum realm :lol
This will not help with that feeling!

I got this tool, for pressing jewels into place:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCKePc3bwAA17nT.jpg

This thing weighs 570g and feels amazing to use. If you're a tool nerd, you'll know what I mean. The micrometer is really smooth, and there's no side shake whatsoever. Also got a set of pushers and anvils for it, and they have beautiful mirror polish, and also no slop in the pusher part (I can post videos later). I haven't determined the hardness of the steel used

Like anything made in China, you can get the cheapest crap, or actual well made equipment. I went for the latter, so the set was about 1900 RMB for the tool and set, or about $280 USD. When most people buy Chinese tools, they are looking to spend $30-50, and end up with basically toys. Unfortunately that's all anyone really talks about, so everything becomes one category "Chinese crap".

To compare, the genuine Horia version from Switzerland, which is probably about the same quality for the tool but the pushers do look to be finished better based on videos I've seen, and may use better steel (not sure) would be about $800 USD for the tool itself, and $1200 for the pushers and anvils.

Even if I was a professional, I wonder if there would ever be a circumstance where it would be worth getting the Swiss set?

Anyway the thing looks huge right? it's a few inches tall:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCKePc1bUAELC5t.jpg

68style

02-27-2026, 07:02 AM

570g in that? Wow that’s a heavy little guy. Very satisfying to use I’m sure.

EvoFire

02-27-2026, 08:38 AM

That's a nice looking tool and 570g is great. I appreciate a great deal.

I think there is a case to be made for getting the Swiss set if you have visibility with clients, especially if they have a social media following. People can recognize that shit and you need to put the show up for it. Otherwise for you, unless you really want the Swiss set, then the hi-po China one is probably more than good enough.

Hehe

02-27-2026, 10:28 AM

With all these equipments, Skinny, have you thought about getting into the rangefinder CLA/fixing scene as well?

Many of the parts are similar or less complex than the watch counterparts, and the physical aspect of them on how they work on a mechanical level is pretty much the same thing.

SkinnyPupp

03-01-2026, 03:01 AM

Stinkywatch is running really well now after a service. Man it is such a satisfying feeling to take a watch that isn't working at all, and getting it running like new again after a service. I am going to take its mainspring and put it in that first one tomorrow. These little movements are really great quality.

BTW this is the other one I picked up, it is in nearly perfect condition except the frame around the date on the dial is off. Just need to glue it back in, service the movement, and someone should want this. The dial is beautiful

(this isn't the exact one, but it looks just like this. Actually this picture doesn't do the sunburst dial justice)

https://i.imgur.com/EQITMIb.png

Only issue might be the original bracelet, which did not come with extra links, is so small I can't even fit 4 fingers through it while open! Otherwise I might wear this myself!

Badhobz

03-04-2026, 09:45 AM

arabic dial !!! durka durka mohammad jihad

SkinnyPupp

03-06-2026, 05:22 AM

the third movement I bought to practice on after the ST36 and 2824 was a Miyota 8200 series, and to anyone considering getting into this as a hobby or whatever, I would recommend to NOT do this. It's a fine movement and keeps good time, but it is not a good serviceable movement.

The main issue is that it uses a single bridge to connect the entire gear train, the mainspring barrel, AND the automatic winding works. To make things more difficult, there is a spring attached to the bridge which prevents it from settling down on the pivots. It's basically the worst movement for a beginner to work on.

So in my early attempts using a 2x optical visor instead of a microscope, I managed to crush several pivots, including a 3rd wheel, 4th wheel, escape wheel, and the pallet fork pivot. These parts are all cheap to replace, like 3-5 RMB each.

I also crushed a jewel in the bridge, which gives me an opportunity to use my new tool. So I recorded that process and will share it here:

First, the broken jewel needs to come out. The correct size pusher is selected (in this case it's a 0.9 mm pusher) and it's simple enough to just push it out:

https://streamable.com/2o6g8x

It was a tight fit; I probably could have gone down to 0.8mm

Next, we replace the jewel, and push it back in. Make sure the jewel is facing the right direction first!

https://streamable.com/c68945

You can see the importance of the pump spring here, in keeping the jewel centered and level before it gets pushed in.

The movement is now up and running with all its new parts, and as much as it was a pain in the ass from the start, it was a good learning experience for me. I will rebuild it a few more times, because really it's the most challenging movement I have, and I think that can increase my skills quite a bit. Also it's a pretty common movement, including wide use in replicas.

SkinnyPupp

03-20-2026, 05:41 PM

Picked up this gem for like $45

https://i.imgur.com/ctRZFEU.png

https://i.imgur.com/itAYocO.png

It's a 1965 Omega ladies watch, in VERY good condition and just needs a service. The strap is new, but the buckle is original, the crown is original, and even the lens is original! The lens is cracked though, which will need to be replaced. Finding an original will definitely cost more than the watch, so it might be worth just taking the loss on value with a generic replacement

JDMDreams

03-20-2026, 08:15 PM

How do you know if a crystal is original? I'm scared to touch older watches as I don't know if it's cobbled together

SkinnyPupp

03-20-2026, 09:21 PM

How do you know if a crystal is original? I'm scared to touch older watches as I don't know if it's cobbled together
Omega crystals have a little symbol embedded on the inside. Let me see if I can take a picture of it for you

https://i.imgur.com/wdfNdbV.png

This watch probably got worn once or twice then sat in a drawer for over 60 years. The leather strap would have rotted during this time, but everything else looks unworn

I might keep it! My wife isn't much of a watch wearer though

JDMDreams

03-20-2026, 11:06 PM

I guess I would only be into vintage dive Seikos or Tudor Rolex. Nothing really older speaks to me

SkinnyPupp

03-25-2026, 01:23 AM

Got a new tool!

This one is used basically for pressing stuff. Well things that are bigger than jewels. It has fine control, but not as fine as the jewel press. It can press crystals into place, case backs can be snapped on, and it has accessories to press pins out of bracelets accurately, and a case back knife (but I have a tool for that already too)

This one weighs 3.4 KG, and I also picked up a die set for crystal presses. Here I am practicing on an original crystal that will be replaced. You can see how it bends the crystal all around, allowing it to snap into the bezel (you can even hear it snap in). Then when pressure is released, it expands to fit snugly.

https://streamable.com/bjfvno

68style

03-25-2026, 07:19 AM

SkinnyPupp

03-25-2026, 03:01 PM

That's pretty neat! One time I took apart a Skagen watch I had with a cheap mineral glass and when I put it back together I tried to use the same type of press you'd use for a caseback but with a cloth in between and I thought I was spreading the weight out evenly, but apparently not and I totally smashed the glass and had to find a replacement lol... this makes it look so damn easy
Yeah this one here is an acrylic crystal (so plastic). The method for mineral or sapphire would be different - if there's a gasket, you're right, you just press it into the gasket as a tight fit. If there's no gasket, it's glued in. Maybe your watch was like this and you tried to force it in and cracked it? Or did the replacement crystal go in ok?

One of the other Seiko Chariots I got is like that. The original glue had become discoloured, so I guess everyone assumed it was rust, so I got a good deal on it. Once the glue was cleaned up, it looked great!

Once I have a few collected, I'll try to sell them I guess on eBay or reddit.

I have a Tissot Touch coming in that is pretty dirty but I think it will look good once cleaned up. I might be keeping that one if it looks good on me. I'm not always a fan of quartz but this one is pretty cool. And it's titanium, and I love titanium as a material (my favourite tweezers to use are all titanium)