What is wrong with people??

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

Hey, can you do some of us a favor? Can you post when you plan on driving and where? I'll make sure I'm not in the same area. It's your type of attitude that could get me killed....and I'm not interested in that. Oh, maybe you better not......might give the police a hint as to where to "make some money"!

Hmm.. let's see. I've never been in a collision; never had a ticket, warning or been stopped by the police; my friends usually have me do the driving if I go out somewhere since I don't drink; never used my phone or texted while driving even when it wasn't illegal...

I'm a calm, focused, attentive driver who drives like I don't want to get a scratch on my car, let alone wrap it around a tree.

Maybe you feel the need to have your hand held by the police while you are out driving about, I don't.

I'm more worried about the guy who feels his car will spin off the road if he exceeds the posted limit by more than a few km/hr.

The vast majority of drivers exceed the posted speed limit yet the vast majority of drivers aren't crashing into each other.

[jlenko]

Simnut, how often does your son speed?

Oh, that's right. He lost his licence. Sorry about that.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Simnut

"Obliviousness and self-delusion, thy names are sebberry."...I am starting to agree with that now!

Hey, that's catchy... where'd you get that?

Can we add indignant self-righteousness to that list?

How "daft" can people be? You are being warned about the extra enforcement....yet they still speed.

I always thought speed traps should be made brutally obvious - no hiding in the trees or around a blind corner or standing behind a bus stop, but out there in the open in high-vis gear in the middle of the nice, long straight stretch... if you can see the cop from a mile away, and he STILL manages to nab you speeding, then you REALLY deserve that ticket, as you're obviously not paying attention to the road.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Soundy

I always thought speed traps should be made brutally obvious - no hiding in the trees or around a blind corner or standing behind a bus stop, but out there in the open in high-vis gear in the middle of the nice, long straight stretch... if you can see the cop from a mile away, and he STILL manages to nab you speeding, then you REALLY deserve that ticket, as you're obviously not paying attention to the road.

That makes sense if you remove the revenue generation component of issuing speeding tickets.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

Hey, can you do some of us a favor? Can you post when you plan on driving and where? I'll make sure I'm not in the same area. It's your type of attitude that could get me killed....and I'm not interested in that. Oh, maybe you better not......might give the police a hint as to where to "make some money"!

This from the guy who said:

Originally Posted by Simnut

Remember, all of us that are "regular" drivers...this is not a big deal....really....getting a 24 hour prohibition. It just means you can't drive for 24 hours.

So, you think people need to slow down, but you don't consider it a big deal to get a 24 hr ADP for drunk-driving.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

That makes sense if you remove the revenue generation component of issuing speeding tickets.

Sooooooooooooooo....if you get caught for speeding....how do you propose to "pay the penalty" of speeding? Hold out your wrist and get a little slap on it....have the officer say "tsk tsk...next time slow down". Yea...that'll stop people from speeding etc! I'll take a slap on the wrist if it saves me 5 minutes! You gotta keep in mind...they only make revenue WHEN someone is in violation...."in the wrong"!

Or maybe 3 strikes and your out! 3 violation tickets and you lose your license for 4 months. Yup, that'll work! But what if that driver kills someone before he gets his third ticket? Say to the family...."the driver in violation is a real nice guy...he only had 2 tickets, so don't be mad at him". Hmm..maybe not....the police will still have to be "sneaky" to catch you doing something wrong.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

I KNOW! If you get caught speeding, make it manditory to attend an accident scene where someone is seriously hurt or dying...or dead. Or, go with an officer to a family home and tell them someone is dead. It'll break even your heart to be the bearer of that news. That will "correct" your thinking so much quicker and in a way you will never forget.......more than any fine you would have to pay! I KNOW this would be the best way to "correct" peoples way of thinking about police, violations and rules of the road.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

If you could do something that prevents you from "having to tell someone a family member is dead" ever again, would you not make it your goal to go out and NAIL every violator you could? Sure, there are officers out there with attitude, but I'm quite sure there are "citizens" out there with attitude also! I know of at least one or two!

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

This from the guy who said:



So, you think people need to slow down, but you don't consider it a big deal to get a 24 hr ADP for drunk-driving.

No, that is not what I am saying.......read carefully! I'm not opposed to someone getting caught on a 24 hour prohibition!!!!!!!!!!! It the penalty you pay after getting it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read....... Read! If a regular driver gets a 24 hour prohibition, all that happens is they can't drive for 24 hours. (not as big a deal as losing your license for 4 months) And that prohibition is not for "drunk driving", it is a violation that allows officers to remove drivers from the road IF they suspect that their driving may be impaired (not over .08, which is a criminal charge). Most people can accommodate that....but if a NOVICE driver gets one, without proper evidence of any BAC, they will lose their license for 4 months. Read my posts c a r e f u l l y!!! Not ONCE have I said I endorse drinking and driving of and by ANYONE......just change procedures my son...procedures!

Read more carefully before you spout off about something please?

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by jlenko

Simnut, how often does your son speed?

Oh, that's right. He lost his licence. Sorry about that.

Mmmmm.....yup, he has sped!! What the hell is your point? Am I arguing that he should be allowed to? Does he know he shouldn't? It has NOTHING to do with this thread. And don't be sorry about it......my thinking is..."you break the rules...you pay the price". By the way...he is learning to respect the rules and the people that enforce them. HEY!!!!!! The system works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You wanna take your ball and go home? I can now start to guess your age........

[sebberry]

So Simnut, you never exceed the posted speed limit? Not even by 2km/hr?

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

So Simnut, you never exceed the posted speed limit? Not even by 2km/hr?

Many times.....but why do you ask? Because I was able to? Or because I did go over the speed limit.....the speed limit on the highway that I was speeding on should go up??? Did I EVER say I shouldn't have gotten a speeding ticket? I will ask you....what's your point?

Hmm.. let's see. I've never been in a collision; never had a ticket, warning or been stopped by the police; my friends usually have me do the driving if I go out somewhere since I don't drink; never used my phone or texted while driving even when it wasn't illegal...

I'm a calm, focused, attentive driver who drives like I don't want to get a scratch on my car, let alone wrap it around a tree.

Okay....let's put it this way. Those speed limits are not for a perfect driver like yourself. You are in a real special and limited category.....you should be proud! The speed limits and rules of the road are for those that AREN'T. How does that sound?

I'm more worried about the guy who feels his car will spin off the road if he exceeds the posted limit by more than a few km/hr.

Aren't you glad then, THAT driver has a slower speed limit to follow?

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

Many times.....but why do you ask? Because I was able to? Or because I did go over the speed limit.....the speed limit on the highway that I was speeding on should go up??? Did I EVER say I shouldn't have gotten a speeding ticket? I will ask you....what's your point?

So you come on here, tell us that we should stick tol the speed limit like glue, then admit you speed.

[325isMSPORT]

if slow drivers would just STAY in the right lane and stop hogging the passing lane 65% of accidents wouldn't happen due to less road rage..

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

So you come on here, tell us that we should stick tol the speed limit like glue, then admit you speed.

Can't believe I'm doing this, but I'll respond. No, I'm not saying we should stick "tol" the speed limit like glue! I consistently drive 5km/h or even 7km/h over the speed limit , well within the "allowable" limits. So, this is considered speeding....as I would not be doing the posted speed limit. What I am saying is that there is a REASON for the speed limit to be what it is. If it was 120km/h, people would be going 125km/h.....you have to draw the line somewhere for the "environment" the road is in.

Hey, show me where I've said we should stick to the speed limit like glue? I am just "discussing" why speed limits are in place. Again, you are not reading what I am saying....which by now..doesn't really surprise me.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by 325isMSPORT

if slow drivers would just STAY in the right lane and stop hogging the passing lane 65% of accidents wouldn't happen due to less road rage..

Actually, if you read the signs on a two lane highway...the right hand lane is for traveling, the left hand lane is for passing. It's not one lane for slow drivers and one lane for fast drivers! But, I do agree.....it is frustrating when two slower vehicles are side by side, not allowing vehicles to use the "passing" lane.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

Can't believe I'm doing this, but I'll respond. No, I'm not saying we should stick "tol" the speed limit like glue! I consistently drive 5km/h or even 7km/h over the speed limit , well within the "allowable" limits. So, this is considered speeding....as I would not be doing the posted speed limit. What I am saying is that there is a REASON for the speed limit to be what it is. If it was 120km/h, people would be going 125km/h.....you have to draw the line somewhere for the "environment" the road is in.

Hey, show me where I've said we should stick to the speed limit like glue? I am just "discussing" why speed limits are in place. Again, you are not reading what I am saying....which by now..doesn't really surprise me.

Your first post was timing the Malahat down to the minute. You were pretty adament that people shouldn't speed, and backed it up with travel time differences to prove your point.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

Actually, if you read the signs on a two lane highway...the right hand lane is for traveling, the left hand lane is for passing. It's not one lane for slow drivers and one lane for fast drivers! But, I do agree.....it is frustrating when two slower vehicles are side by side, not allowing vehicles to use the "passing" lane.

If you read the signs again you'll see that the right lane is indicated as a travel lane and the left lane is indicated as a passing/travel lane.



I was on HWY17 Southbound last night, not quite keeping up with the flow of traffic (which was in excess of the posted speed limit). I was passed by an F150 doing 120/130 km/hr in the 80 zone.

I thought it was a bit fast, but if he kept his distance from other cars there won't be a problem. What did he do? Latched right onto the back end of a small Honda before finally passing it on the right, tailgating again and passing on the left. It's not like he couldn't see the cars since this was all visable from my vantage point quite a ways back.

So when I say speed is OK, I'm talking speed alone is OK. I'm not condoning actions like the F150 driver.

This also all took place right where the Saanich safety squad sets up their speed traps on a regular basis. Proof that regular enforcement doesn't prevent this sort of driving.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Your first post was timing the Malahat down to the minute. You were pretty adament that people shouldn't speed, and backed it up with travel time differences to prove your point.

Nope...I was only pointing out the ACTUAL time you would save by speeding (which is very ....VERY...little)...and then asking....is the little bit of time you save worth a speeding violation or accident! I posted the travel times to show how LITTLE time speeding over the "hat" gains you! If you also notice, I increased the speed by 20km/h increments....significant speed violations, not the "grey" area of 5-7 km/h which MANY of us drive. I can't count the times a vehicle passed me on the "hat", in a hurry...and I pull in behind him at the first set of lights passed Goldstream Park, heading into Victoria. Read that post again....now that I've explained it....and you will see that is what I meant.

My point was/is ..... what you gain in time "ain't" worth the grieve you could get or the pain you might receive or dish out.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

I was on HWY17 Southbound last night, not quite keeping up with the flow of traffic (which was in excess of the posted speed limit). I was passed by an F150 doing 120/130 km/hr in the 80 zone.

I thought it was a bit fast, but if he kept his distance from other cars there won't be a problem. What did he do? Latched right onto the back end of a small Honda before finally passing it on the right, tailgating again and passing on the left. It's not like he couldn't see the cars since this was all visable from my vantage point quite a ways back.

So when I say speed is OK, I'm talking speed alone is OK. I'm not condoning actions like the F150 driver.

If you, or I for that matter...where the only driver on the road....speed isn't an issue right? But, we share the road with drivers that I (and am quite sure you) would like to see "controlled" by a safe speed limit!

This also all took place right where the Saanich safety squad sets up their speed traps on a regular basis. Proof that regular enforcement doesn't prevent this sort of driving.

The only way to "slow" speeders down in areas like that is to bring in a photo radar type system. A system that runs on it's own and doesn't require an officer to be present. People will slow down EVERY time. Even YOU know that the police services cannot be every where, all the time. Yea...that's a problem....but who is willing to pay more taxes to get more officers on the road? The same people that wouldn't be willing to pay more taxes...complained about the photo radar system we had going which caught more speeders with less man power. You also know how easy it is to "know or not know" if the "speed trap" is setup just by watching other drivers. Watch the drivers ahead of you braking is one hint...and of course, the typical flashing of the headlights from on coming vehicles. This slows everyone down.......HANG ON!!! Thats exactly what the rules and enforcement is supposed to do!

[sebberry]

It may not be about saving time, but if traffic is flowing at 20km/hr over the limit (which it does very frequently in areas around the Malahat without trouble) then I'm not going to be the putz plugging up the right lane.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

If you, or I for that matter...where the only driver on the road....speed isn't an issue right? But, we share the road with drivers that I (and am quite sure you) would like to see "controlled" by a safe speed limit!



The only way to "slow" speeders down in areas like that is to bring in a photo radar type system. A system that runs on it's own and doesn't require an officer to be present. People will slow down EVERY time. Even YOU know that the police services cannot be every where, all the time. Yea...that's a problem....but who is willing to pay more taxes to get more officers on the road? The same people that wouldn't be willing to pay more taxes...complained about the photo radar system we had going which caught more speeders with less man power. You also know how easy it is to "know or not know" if the "speed trap" is setup just by watching other drivers. Watch the drivers ahead of you braking is one hint...and of course, the typical flashing of the headlights from on coming vehicles. This slows everyone down.......HANG ON!!! Thats exactly what the rules and enforcement is supposed to do!

Again you go right back to speed and speed enforcement without looking at the main factors that cause a collision - vehicles getting to close to eachother.

Until photo radar catches people failing to keep right, or the police actually start using the feature on their laser guns that measures tailgating, you will have crashes. In fact, one of the only good things photo radar did in BC was result in an INCREASE in some posted speed limits.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Again you go right back to speed and speed enforcement without looking at the main factors that cause a collision - vehicles getting to close to eachother.

Until photo radar catches people failing to keep right, or the police actually start using the feature on their laser guns that measures tailgating, you will have crashes. In fact, one of the only good things photo radar did in BC was result in an INCREASE in some posted speed limits.

Of course...when two vehicles get TOO close together....an accident has a good chance of occuring!
What about the single vehicle accidents that are a result of speed? What about the speeding driver that can't handle the curve and drifts over the center line into oncoming traffic? What about the driver that rear ends someone because they come up on them too fast? What about the driver that is driving so fast they can't stop if something is happening around the corner? There are sooooooo many what if's that involve just a speeding single vehicle!!! No one to blame but the speed ....and of course the driver for going that fast!!!

How do you propose to slow down speeding drivers? Please.....let me know........

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

Of course...when two vehicles get TOO close together....an accident has a good chance of occuring!

So focus on keeping them further apart. Enforce the shit out of tailgating. Enforce the keep right rules.

Originally Posted by Simnut

What about the single vehicle accidents that are a result of speed? What about the speeding driver that can't handle the curve and drifts over the center line into oncoming traffic?

The problem with much of the enforcement that I have seen is that it is targeting areas with longer straight roads where most of the drivers speed. It's easy pickings because most drivers are comfortable handling a higher speed on those roads.

Of course the enforcement community comes back and says "we're trying to slow down drivers before they get to the curvy bits". Well that's fine, but why target the areas where it is safe to speed before the curvy bits? Most drivers slow down for the curvy bits anyway, especially on the Malahat. Just because a driver is exceeding the posted limit on the straight bits before the curvy bits doesn't mean he's going to maintain the same speed through the curves.

Originally Posted by Simnut

What about the driver that rear ends someone because they come up on them too fast?

There's a key difference between coming up behind someone too fast and not slowing down when you can see them up ahead to maintain a safe distance. Aggression. Just because someone is exceeding the posted limit doesn't mean they can't choose to slow down when they approach vehicles ahead.

Originally Posted by Simnut

What about the driver that is driving so fast they can't stop if something is happening around the corner? There are sooooooo many what if's that involve just a speeding single vehicle!!! No one to blame but the speed ....and of course the driver for going that fast!!!

There are times when even doing the speed limit won't prevent you from hitting something unknown around the bend. It all depends on where the obstacle is.

Originally Posted by Simnut

How do you propose to slow down speeding drivers? Please.....let me know........

Treat tailgating, unsafe lane changes and generally aggressive driving as the serious offences that they are. That will greatly reduce the number of collisions where speed was one of a few contributing factors.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

So focus on keeping them further apart. Enforce the shit out of tailgating. Enforce the keep right rules.



The problem with much of the enforcement that I have seen is that it is targeting areas with longer straight roads where most of the drivers speed. It's easy pickings because most drivers are comfortable handling a higher speed on those roads.

Of course the enforcement community comes back and says "we're trying to slow down drivers before they get to the curvy bits". Well that's fine, but why target the areas where it is safe to speed before the curvy bits? Most drivers slow down for the curvy bits anyway, especially on the Malahat. Just because a driver is exceeding the posted limit on the straight bits before the curvy bits doesn't mean he's going to maintain the same speed through the curves.




There's a key difference between coming up behind someone too fast and not slowing down when you can see them up ahead to maintain a safe distance. Aggression. Just because someone is exceeding the posted limit doesn't mean they can't choose to slow down when they approach vehicles ahead.




There are times when even doing the speed limit won't prevent you from hitting something unknown around the bend. It all depends on where the obstacle is.




Treat tailgating, unsafe lane changes and generally aggressive driving as the serious offences that they are. That will greatly reduce the number of collisions where speed was one of a few contributing factors.

You know the old saying....."You gotta know when to hold 'em, you gotta know when to fold 'em.......... I'm folding.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

You know the old saying....."You gotta know when to hold 'em, you gotta know when to fold 'em.......... I'm folding.

Well if you really felt that you had a better hand you wouldn't be folding now, would you?

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Well if you really felt that you had a better hand you wouldn't be folding now, would you?

Riiiiiiiight!