Ever paid a parking fine at UBC? You could be included in this lawsuit

[Meowjin]

Originally posted by dna82
. It isn't a private corporation. Win or lose it will only affect the university students and the faculties that recieve the funds.

uhhhhh

[Soundy]

Originally posted by dna82
lulz, all the money the department recieves gets reinvested into the university anyways. It isn't a private corporation. Win or lose it will only affect the university students and the faculties that recieve the funds.

And what happens to those funds if suddenly everyone starts parking and paying for it properly, so nobody gets fined anymore?

[dna82]

Originally posted by Soundy
And what happens to those funds if suddenly everyone starts parking and paying for it properly, so nobody gets fined anymore?

then the funds get bigger and the students benefit. How this money is spent isn't the departments decision but the board of governers.The board of governers votes on all pay raises involving management and which faculties or other departments get more funding. So if the department gets more revenue then more money is reapplied back to the university, whether or not this results in tuition decreases is the board of governers decision. It is a self-sustaining philosophy. Fines and enforcement only account for 5% of the total revenue of the department. More money could be made if they had a stricter enforcement policy but that's not what they want.

[dna82]

Originally posted by MajinHurricane
uhhhhh

uhhhhhhhhhhx2

[Soundy]

Originally posted by dna82
then the funds get bigger and the students benefit. How this money is spent isn't the departments decision but the board of governers.The board of governers votes on all pay raises involving management and which faculties or other departments get more funding. So if the department gets more revenue then more money is reapplied back to the university, whether or not this results in tuition decreases is the board of governers decision. It is a self-sustaining philosophy. Fines and enforcement only account for 5% of the total revenue of the department. More money could be made if they had a stricter enforcement policy but that's not what they want.

Umm, the point is, I hardly think any of the budgets RELY on money from parking fines. That would be retarded in the extreme - what if everyone decided to stop driving and take transit? What if everyone decided to follow the parking regulations? Those monies would disappear. Operational and educational budgets of ANY sort would never include such an unreliable source of revenue.

Then again, if they did, I'd think twice about taking any business courses at UBC...

[dna82]

No one said the parking revenue accounts for the principle source of funding for any faculty. There isn't enough money, however It accounts for a part of the monies needed to maintain departments. Campus securities, plant ops, trek 2000 program, ubc bus passes are all funds that revenue generating departments support because those departments generate no revenue. The money generated from parking is consistent because most people 95% pay for parking and have monthly passes. The revenue generated from fines and enforcement is very miniscule.

[Soundy]

Originally posted by dna82
The revenue generated from fines and enforcement is very miniscule.

Yes, exactly. And thus the supposition that this lawsuit would actually adversely affect the school ("Win or lose it will only affect the university students and the faculties that recieve the funds.") is baseless.

[jimzilla]

god i love transit (to SFU)

[dna82]

Originally posted by Soundy
Yes, exactly. And thus the supposition that this lawsuit would actually adversely affect the school ("Win or lose it will only affect the university students and the faculties that recieve the funds.") is baseless.

uhh wha? losing money always affects the university. You just won't see a direct effect from it since the lawsuit itself (4mil) is tiny. But it doesn't mean that it won't have a negative impact. It's just that the rest of tax paying citizens won't have to bail out the university and the loss in revenue from this lawsuit will be counterbalanced with either small service cuts or more ingenious ways to milk money out of the students.

[Meowjin]

How the hell is ubc even remotly public anymore? maybe when the NDP was running it

In 2001-02, UBC had one of the lowest undergraduate tuition rates in Canada, at an average of $2,181 CAD per year for a full-time programme. This was due to a government-instituted tuition freeze.
In 2001, however, the BC Liberal party defeated the NDP in British Columbia and lifted the tuition freeze. In 2002-03 undergraduate and graduate tuition rose by an average of 30%, and by up to 40% in some faculties. This has led to increased enrollment and better facilities, but also to student unrest and contributed to a teaching assistant union strike.
UBC again increased tuition by 30% in the 2003-04 year, again by approximately 15% in the 2004-05 season, and 2% in the 2005-06 and 2006-07 years. Increases were lower than expected because, in the 2005 Speech from the Throne, the government announced that tuition increases would be capped to inflation.[11]
Despite these increases, UBC's tuition remains below the national average and below other universities in the regions. In 2006-07, the Canadian average undergraduate tuition fee was $4347 and the BC average was $4960.[12] UBC tuition for 2007-2008 is $4,257 for a Canadian student in a basic 30-unit program, though various programs cost from $3,406 to $9,640, and Dentistry and Medicine cost $14,566. Tuition for international students is roughly four times as much.[13]

[Soundy]

Originally posted by dna82
uhh wha? losing money always affects the university. You just won't see a direct effect from it since the lawsuit itself (4mil) is tiny. But it doesn't mean that it won't have a negative impact.

Alright then, what does it actually have a negative impact on?

And what happens if tomorrow, suddenly everyone decides to start following the parking regulations? Answer: that revenue stream dries up instantly. What does that negatively impact?

Answer: nothing, because fine revenues are "gravy" at best - no accountant with half a brain would make part of any budget reliant on them, because they're never guaranteed.

There are some income sources that can be counted on. Fines aren't one of them.

[Soundy]

Update in today's Province:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/orde...548/story.html

A judge has found that UBC has been unlawfully issuing parking tickets since 1990 and has ordered that more than $4 million in fines be paid back to thousands of violators.

In 2006 B.C. Supreme Court Justice Richard Goepel certified a class-action lawsuit on the issue after representative plaintiff Daniel Barbour filed suit against the university.

Barbour, a Vancouver chartered accountant, was angry when his two-door Jaguar was impounded after he left it in a parking lot on Wesbrook Mall on the UBC campus.

He was legally parked at the time but was ordered to pay $200 to get his car back after the university alleged he’d violated the parking regulations on at least one other occasion.

Up until the start of the trial, UBC argued that the parking fines were lawfully collected under the University Act but then admitted that the scheme was illegal.

It then submitted that there were “private law justifications” for the regulations, but in a ruling released Monday, Goepel said that those arguments were not sufficient to uphold the fines.

The judge said that UBC retains the power to remove vehicles that are improperly parked and to recover costs incurred, but he noted that in most cases the fines are far in excess of the damage caused to UBC by the miscreant parker, and said that those penalized trusted that UBC had the power to impose the fines.

“There is something fundamentally unfair that those good citizens should not recover the money that UBC had no right to collect in the first place,” he said in ordering restitution.

“I’m extremely pleased,” said Barbour. “The court has recognized that UBC has been unlawfully collecting fines and unlawfully towing cars solely because people had unpaid tickets. The court has found that those are both illegal activities.”

Barbour added that he likes the university but “they have to stop this particular practice. I certainly know professors out at UBC, students out at UBC, and they’ve all had their cars towed in this sort of fashion. And they’ve been rooting me on.”

Sharon Matthews, Barbour’s lawyer, said there were still several issues to be determined, including setting up a system for people to come forward to be paid.

Court heard that from January 1990 to December 2005, a total of 432,847 traffic tickets were issued and more than half remain unpaid. From September 2000 to March 2006, violation notices were issued to 115,456 licence plates. Only 20 per cent of violators were responsible for nearly half of the violation notices.

[TL_99]

^ above, hmm, i'm waiting for my cheque. come on pay up.

[J____]

i think i forgot to op in on the lawsuit.... do i still get a check?

[bootymac]

.

[Volvo-brickster]

Originally Posted by krazynuck

UBC will win....stupidest thing ever... the guy is just a pompous arrogant graduate CA who thinks he can do anything.... if UBC losses it will affect more then just UBC....but SFU, UVIC and all other parking areas

UBC needs the money from parking revenue to reinvest into the campus even if it is an arm and leg to park there on a given day...but there still is the B-Lots which are decent priced at $4.50/day


SO i hope UBC WINS!!!!

if you are dumb enough to get enough tickets to get towed then u deserve to pay

Fail.

[RTS]

Awesome.

The worst thing is about UBC parking is their shitty attitude. Patrol and staff.

Hope they all lose their jobs as well.

[J____]

sweet. here comes a $400 paycheck from UBC lol

[twitchyzero]

IMO UBC has the right to charge an arm and a leg on their endownment lands...cause the land IS worth a lot. Yeah so the students are already broke as shit..they should subsidize it a bit...but anything from $6-8 dollars a day should still be fair game.

However, their punishment isnt justified.

[krazynuck]

Originally Posted by Volvo-brickster

Fail.

yes i know....and for those who posted stuff about my comment in the other thread...i dont personaly write parking tickets i work in the department as an office worker so no i do not feel bad for a minor part of my pay coming from parking fines...most people who get towed are repeat repeat repeat offenders anyway or have parked in handicap spots, firelanes or even the reserved spots at ubc...

i am happy to see that some people are getting there money back though no matter how little it may amount to be....and not so happy about some who may get money back....but just remember 4 million has to come from somewhere and who do u think will end up having to repay that money? probaly the students or maybe they will riase parking, or hault funding to new buildings or cut funding to the upass....

you would be amazed how much of the parking money goes back into ubc buildings and programs to keep costs down for students

[Ferra]

Originally Posted by krazynuck

you would be amazed how much of the parking money goes back into ubc buildings and programs to keep costs down for students

keep costs down for the students?
lol you gotta be kidding me, when I was in UBC, my course fees went up by at least 60% in 3 years + they started adding a bunch of new "fees" to my tuition every year.
And a few millions is nothing to them, considering they made a shit load of money selling houses in the last few years


So is UBC gonna stop issuing tickets from on?

[DD//M3]

Is the Pope Catholic? Of course they are. Scott Mcrae (UBC Affairs) was on yesterdays news saying they will appeal.

I would also not put it past them to amend their parking act under "Private" in the future and operate like Impark. In fact I think he mentioned this in the interview.

What UBC did wrong was operate like a city or municipality when they had no right to do so.

I have lots of problems with how UBC has "clear cutted" Southlands and everywhere else. If you go down to South Campus you will see a facade of trees lining 16th and the UBC Highway. They left a thin line of trees and just clear cut everything inside. This is how UBC Operates.

Not to mention the incredible amount of Housing they have built for Profit. They have sold out the institution IMO.

<end rant>

[achiam]

Originally Posted by krazynuck

yes i know....and for those who posted stuff about my comment in the other thread...i dont personaly write parking tickets i work in the department as an office worker so no i do not feel bad for a minor part of my pay coming from parking fines...most people who get towed are repeat repeat repeat offenders anyway or have parked in handicap spots, firelanes or even the reserved spots at ubc...

i am happy to see that some people are getting there money back though no matter how little it may amount to be....and not so happy about some who may get money back....but just remember 4 million has to come from somewhere and who do u think will end up having to repay that money? probaly the students or maybe they will riase parking, or hault funding to new buildings or cut funding to the upass....

you would be amazed how much of the parking money goes back into ubc buildings and programs to keep costs down for students

I worked in Parking when I was in UBC.
Here is the biggest scam I learned about when I was there:

a.) UBC wanted to redevelop land to get development cashflow from luxury properties in campus.

b.) GVRD laws do not allow increase in vehicular traffic. Without somehow keeping the # of vehicles going to/from campus everyday constant, UBC wouldn't be allowed to redevelop the land.

c.) So, UBC needed to cut down the # of cars driven by kids into the campus, so that when rich people started driving from their new luxury homes, the net change in cars would be ZERO.

d.) U-Pass was implemented - development plans A-OK!

I'm not sure if this applies to SFU, but given their huge spate of residential development on top of the mountain before I moved away from Vancouver, I wouldn't be surprised either.

[achiam]

Originally Posted by Ferra

keep costs down for the students?
lol you gotta be kidding me, when I was in UBC, my course fees went up by at least 60% in 3 years + they started adding a bunch of new "fees" to my tuition every year.
And a few millions is nothing to them, considering they made a shit load of money selling houses in the last few years


So is UBC gonna stop issuing tickets from on?

Not accurate.
The main reason our fees went up in that spike was because the previous NDP government back in 1999? imposed the tuition freeze on ALL faculties. The problem with this was two-fold.
Firstly, market conditions dictate talented instructor's wages. It is the University's job to try and recruit the most prominent researchers in their respective fields (e.g. people who are constantly publishing new journals and are on the cutting edge of their research field). To do this, you need to pay them competitively or other richer universities will bag them with offers of higher salary, or their own laboratory, etc etc. So while income from students was constant, its quite believable that the costs of maintaining faculty ballooned - representing an increasing debt margin.
Secondly, you also have the costs of running the school, be it building maintenance etc etc.

The income from Parking is actually quite trivial compared to the actual amount needed to run all of UBC, which back in 2004 was about $1B CAD. After finishing the new Thunderbird Parkade, the Department as a whole was $17M in the hole.

[q0192837465]

The 1 thing I believe is that the only ppl who will put ur interest before theirs are 1) ur parents and 2) urself. Therefore, I strongy believe that the univeristy is doing things in the best interest of the students AFTER their interests are met..