LOLOL I can't believe they chromed the springs.

both GTR and 911 Turbo are great cars..

difference is the people who can afford a 911 Turbo could probably use their pocket change to buy a GTR as daily driver (beater).. haha

Marco has the right idea.

The newer vettes were developed with the help of the germans the z05 and z06 engineers spent a few months at M and AMG factories to see how real cars are built. then they came out with an amazing z05 vette - why was this one amazing and all the other ones were a disaster? You think overnight, a shit godawful car becomes good?

Germans have pretty much nailed it down, in every department of the car, cept off road.

So if you cant beat them, other companies simply join them. Bet you half of that GTR is german engineering. The japs ripped up and rebuild enough exotics to find the best medium. That's not engineering - that's china work. They make cheap, reliable cars - no one else does that. That's a japanese thing.

English will always be the best off road.
Americans will always be best at pickups and off the line power - tells you much about their culture and how moronic it is.

Leave it to the germans to do what they do.

Its like a company Babolat in tennis. Makes wicked strings since early 20s. But when they started making racquets - they turned to shit. They make decent racquets, but they will never be the best. Make strings, not racquets.

Porsche has the pedigree of a true sports car - it even reflects in their gigantic SUV, the Cayenne. Anyone who has ever driven a cayenne, will tell you its a 911 with a lift. When they do what they are suppose to do - they do it right.

I'm pretty sure most car manufacturers do this when building a new vehicle to compete with a benchmark. Also the z05 corvette?? When a sti sedan from 1996 can beat it around the ring you can't really say that car was influenced by porsche. It was a pretty good car but nothing compared to the z06 which was extensively tuned on the ring and comes within a second of the 997 turbo.

^^So what innovations in a Ferrari or Porsche, or MB or BMW, or Audi came from Japan?

Never said they innovated just said that when making a new vehicle other manufacturers usually purchase vehicles made by other companies so that they can benchmark their products.

The Japanese: Great Imitators.

Horrible Innovators.

ok so you're saying the GT-R is an imitation of what?

If you look at some of the japanese sports cars, their main "thing" isn't even japanese.

NSX: Designed by Pininfarina, NOT HONDA
93+ Supra: Engine by a GERMAN COMPANY, NOT TOYOTA
RX7: Wankel Rotary engine isn't a Japanese design (forgot...was it british?)

They built the new GTR specifically to attain or best the performance of the Porsche 911 Turbo. They used the blueprint laid out by previous generations of GT-Rs, and simply borrowed the technology invented by various other manufacturers to build a package that mimicked the performance of their benchmark.

http://www.automotiveblogger.net/wp-...1/em_front.jpg

It's what they do: take something of another origin, and perfect it. Mazda looked at the Lotus Elan and said "how can we make this better." Nissan looked at the 911 Turbo and said "how can we make this better." (Step 1: Put the engine in the front). And it's been happening since cars were invented. Toyota looked at the first Willy's Jeeps and said "how can we make this better." Hello Land Cruiser.

But at the end of the day, they may construct incredibly impressive cars, but the truly great automobiles will still only come from countries that are willing to create cars from scratch. The Veyron. The McLaren F1. The Lamborghini Countach. The Miura. The Ferrari 250 GTO. The Shelby Cobra. Throw the GTR, Supra, NSX or RX7 in that list and they'd stick out like a sore thumb.

I personally credit it to a stiflingly conservative social atmosphere. Their art is, for the most part, all traditional. Their music, borrowed from other cultures. Their clothes? Fucked up beyond all belief, but mostly because they're bastardized and hooker-ized versions of other cultures clothes. Think about Japanese expression: it doesn't exist. They don't yell or scream or berate one another. Now think of Italians: civility simply isn't in their vocabulary. Now tell me which country has been responsible for building the truly great automobiles.

Realistically I will never own either car, so I don't really care. I'm getting older, and practicality is more my concern. Besides, I already have my weekend car.

I only say you are spewing crap because you seem to pick some of the most stupid, insignificant attributes to argue about (IE: Oil smell?), sometimes completely baseless or totally subjective.

It's just not worth the effort.

+1

The origins of Lamborghini is mythical in itself: Mr. Lamborghini started making cars after being spited (sp.) by Enzo Ferrari, if I remember correctly.

*checks Wikipedia

From Wikipedia:

"As told by Ferruccio Lamborghini's son, Ferruccio Lamborghini went to meet Enzo Ferrari at the Ferrari factory to complain about the quality of the clutch in his Ferrari 250 GT. An infuriated Enzo Ferrari sent him away telling him to go drive his tractors because he was not able to drive cars. Lamborghini went back to his factory to have the Ferrari's clutch dismantled and found that the clutch in the Ferrari was a product of the manufacturer who supplied the clutches used in Lamborghini tractors. Lamborghini installed a stronger clutch from his factory's warehouse into his Ferrari and solved the clutch failure.

Furious with Enzo Ferrari's arrogant and aloof manner, Ferruccio Lamborghini promised himself he would never own another Ferrari and would beat Ferrari at his own game by creating a superior sports car of his own"

I kinda have to disagree with the wankel engine.

I just did a quick research and came up with this: "In 1769, James Watt invented a reciprocating steam engine with a condenser"
James Watt is from England.

So I guess you're saying all Japanese, American, German, Italian and other cars aren't even their design just because reciprocating engine was designed by a British guy?

I'm saying that the "unique" thing about the RX7 was that it had a rotary engine; if it had a V-6 or a I-6, it would of been any other japanese sports car.

However, it's unique-ness isn't even japanese by nature; the rotary engine isn't a japanese design.

i think the vq35 has french roots?

jeremy clarkson said it once i believe - something about french made/sourced

and getrag=german?

and i think the turbos in the veyron is by mitsu

go figure (-__-)..

I think you mean "way of the future".

What does national pride have to do with anything when all the car companies have gone international? In terms of design aesthetics for example, companies acquire the top talent from all over the world and it doesn't matter where they're from. The engineering aspect shouldn't be any different.

examples:

-the Enzo was designed by Ken Okuyama, a former Japanese stylist for Pininfarina
-the Viper was designed by an Osamu Shikado, another Japanese
-the NSX was designed by Pininfarina
-the upcoming nissan Z is currently being designed by a Filipino (need sources)

-the Mazda Nagare design philosophy is being headed by Franz Von Holzhausen
-Chris Bangle, an American designer redesigned BMW
-Van Hooydonk, from the Netherlands, is now in charge of BMW design

I wouldn't be surprised if one day Porsche design is reinvented by a Mexican.

It's not national pride, it's the way of the world. Belgian chocolates, German weapons, American apple pie, Canadian Maple Syrup, Swiss watches, Cayman banks, etc etc. Years of differing cultures and policies have created atmospheres more conducive to innovation than others. Larry Shinoda, the creator of the Boss Mustangs in the late 60s was a Japanese-born American. The guy that made the Enzo is a Japanese-born, western-educated Italian. The Japanese culture simply is not conducive to the out-of-the-box thinking that innovation requires.

Just to add one more:

The guy that designed the Maserati QP is Japanese.

Whoa whoa whoa, back the bus up here.

Who dominates the electronics industry again? I think their names are something like "Sony" and "Toshiba" and "Panasonic"... I dunno.

Go to Japan and see for yourself.

lol this guy's a fucking noob and still calls it a Skyline.
So should we believe someone who doesn't even know the proper name of the car (considering it does not have Skyline badge anywhere on the car) to test a car and tell which is better?

GTR vs 911 GT3 vs M3

Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo

EDIT: I just watched the Part2, idiot didn't even know there was the "M dynamic mode" to use to get a better launch.

Interesting write up. This just made me laugh.

On another topic: Was the NSX really a pininfarina design? That would certainly explain why I think it possesses that timeless look to it.

Same guy who designed the Enzo. It's pretty interesting design career because he was born in Japan, studied design in the states (Art Center), and then worked for the Germans and Italians (Porsche & Pininfarina).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Okuyama

There are rarely any innovations in the consumer electronics industry. Example: Blu-Ray is just an evolutionary upgrade of DVD which was an evolutionary upgrade of CD, and so on and so forth. Sony hasn't innovated anything since the days of the original Walkman and Trinitron TV.

The Japanese are amazing at perfecting things, but innovators they are not. Anyways I'm getting a bit off-topic. Carry on. :)