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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 11-10-2009, 04:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Great68 View Post
Didn't you read what Pacer said? Yes, the fart can on that neon CAN be a violation of the "widened outlet" rule, that is if a judge should agree with the officer.

(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.
Sure, it is wider than stock and on that fact alone is a violation of the rule. However, as I wrote above, the rule doesn't say it can't be wider than stock, it simply says you cannot run a muffler with an opening which has been widened, implying that you cannot take some tin snips to a muffler with a 2.5" opening and turn it into one with a 3.5" opening.

If that "fart can" was manufactured with a 3.5" opening and the owner hasn't further widened it, it therefore hasn't been widened.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

However, as I wrote above, the rule doesn't say it can't be wider than stock, it simply says you cannot run a muffler with an opening which has been widened, implying that you cannot take some tin snips to a muffler with a 2.5" opening and turn it into one with a 3.5" opening.

If that "fart can" was manufactured with a 3.5" opening and the owner hasn't further widened it, it therefore hasn't been widened.
My point is that is how YOU are interpreting it, but not necessarily how a judge interprets it. A judge could see it as: You stick that 3.5" muffler where there was a 2.5" muffler, and now you have WIDENED the exhaust. And he can rule against you. This is regardless if the 3.5" muffler is any louder than stock or not.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:22 PM   #28
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thanks for your information Pacer, but I still have a question. What if the piping is exactly the same, or even smaller than the stock one, but the tip is larger?

It by definition in the section is widened.... I have a Vibe GT and it comes stock from the factory with a widened exhaust tip (larger outlet than exhaust piping).... but if you use my members criteria it is OK as it is original and not altered from that. So even he would not issue a VT or if he did would have no evidence to call at trial as his criteria for disputes would not be met.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:30 PM   #29
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My point is that is how YOU are interpreting it, but not necessarily how a judge interprets it. A judge could see it as: You stick that 3.5" muffler where there was a 2.5" muffler, and now you have WIDENED the exhaust. And he can rule against you. This is regardless if the 3.5" muffler is any louder than stock or not.
That particular rule applies to widening the outlet of the muffler, not the exhaust system.

The rule (4) stands by itself in section 7.03.

(4) specifically references ONLY the muffler, not any other part of the exhaust system. Please tell me where (4) sets the OE factory muffler's opening dimension as the baseline for which the "widening" is measured against? It doesn't.

Therefore it is safe to assume that, because (4) deals ONLY with the muffler, it uses the muffler's factory opening as the baseline for which the "widening" is measured against.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:40 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
That particular rule applies to widening the outlet of the muffler, not the exhaust system.

The rule (4) stands by itself in section 7.03.

(4) specifically references ONLY the muffler, not any other part of the exhaust system. Please tell me where (4) sets the OE factory muffler's opening dimension as the baseline for which the "widening" is measured against? It doesn't.

Therefore it is safe to assume that, because (4) deals ONLY with the muffler, it uses the muffler's factory opening as the baseline for which the "widening" is measured against.
Ok whatever, tell it to the judge. If you win, good on you.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:49 PM   #31
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Ok whatever, tell it to the judge. If you win, good on you.
I don't run one of those goofy looking abnoxious things on my car anyway so I couldn't really care less. My guess is that the JPs are convicting because the officer has done a little bit of measuring and the perp just stands there pissed off that he gambled with the officer not showing up that day.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:13 AM   #32
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Thats a poor attitude and sheer lack of mechanical knowledge. As an engineer I know that the parts wear out and need to be replaced. I replaced my exhaust with the factory approved after market suppliers part. I sounds close but is louder. You can go to Midas and get the factory similar part and it will be loader. Design and marketing are not in my control, and the parts are not "exactly the same". A VPD cop stopped my son and looked under the hood, he said the engine bay doesn't look stock and issued a VI. The retarded VPD wouldn't know a stock engine bay if bit him on the nose. It's nothing more than harassment and muscle flexing from the cops. My brother in-law is RCMP and you put us together and you should hear the crap that comes out of him. Clearly the cops are not selected on intelligence, but on size and attitude. I say fight every ticket and call it for what it is "HARASSMENT"
I have to laugh at this cause something is missing from the story.

My car stands out like a sore thumb with the 2-tone paint, yet I've never had issues with police officers anywhere about my mods and that includes when I had underglow on the car and you could see it from a mile away it was so bright.

I bet the issues involves driving like an idiot, or "close but louder" isn't an accurate description.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:18 AM   #33
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So this is what police do, instead of catching criminals, fine us for having bigger exhausts. What a joke the police have become. Why don't you guys catch the idiot that keyed 5 cars in my neighbourhood instead? To be fair, a police officer did pull me over for having apparently too big of an exhaust for a stock car. No problem, i showed him pictures of what a stock car looks like and told him to fuck off. Seriously, pulling people over for bigger than normal exhaust, window tinting, leds? Is it that time of year again? Quota filling time?
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:38 AM   #34
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To be fair, a police officer did pull me over for having apparently too big of an exhaust for a stock car. No problem, i showed him pictures of what a stock car looks like and told him to fuck off.
Real mature.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:41 AM   #35
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Real mature.
That actually is pretty mature, he inconvenienced me because of his stupidity, and all i did was verbally punish him, when he tried to financially punish me. I say that would be fair.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:24 PM   #36
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I'm sure the people who get hissed ( including maybe you?) who get hissed by fart cans at 3am, share your opinion...same with the gentle comforting noise from illegally equipped motorcycle exhaust systems too. Loud exhausts are like farts...only our own are not annoying.
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:05 AM   #37
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I'm sure the people who get hissed ( including maybe you?) who get hissed by fart cans at 3am, share your opinion...same with the gentle comforting noise from illegally equipped motorcycle exhaust systems too. Loud exhausts are like farts...only our own are not annoying.
motorcycle exhausts actually have another function, to allow crappy ass drivers that don't shoulder check to know they're present.
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:59 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by XtC-604 View Post
So this is what police do, instead of catching criminals, fine us for having bigger exhausts. What a joke the police have become. Why don't you guys catch the idiot that keyed 5 cars in my neighbourhood instead? To be fair, a police officer did pull me over for having apparently too big of an exhaust for a stock car. No problem, i showed him pictures of what a stock car looks like and told him to fuck off. Seriously, pulling people over for bigger than normal exhaust, window tinting, leds? Is it that time of year again? Quota filling time?
Who peed in your cornflakes this morning?

The reason people with illegal exhaust modifications, illegal window tinting and illegal LED lights installed on their vehicles are pulled over, is because they are illegal. If you break the law, expect to be punished. Unfortunately police can't be everywhere, all the time catching every little thing that everyone does. So you might not get stopped for something one day, but chances are pretty good that eventually you'll be stopped for it another time if its illegal.
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:09 PM   #39
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motorcycle exhausts actually have another function, to allow crappy ass drivers that don't shoulder check to know they're present.
The other side of the arguement would suggest that since motorcyclists know they are harder to see, they should not be riding in the blindspot of other cars.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:06 PM   #40
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Unfortunately police can't be everywhere, all the time catching every little thing that everyone does.
That's because they are too busy at car dealerships measuring the width of exhaust tips.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:28 AM   #41
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The other side of the arguement would suggest that since motorcyclists know they are harder to see, they should not be riding in the blindspot of other cars.
lol....the other side of your argument is that i've been side to side with a X5 and he still tried to cut into me. I believe if i can see through his windows and see him, im not in the blind spot right? The POINT here is that some people just don't check. If im a rider i would put the loudest #### exhaust possible. Getting into a life threatening accident because of some retard not being able to hear/see you is the last thing that i would wanna get myself into

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Old 12-09-2009, 11:11 AM   #42
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lol....the other side of your argument is that i've been side to side with a X5 and he still tried to cut into me. I believe if i can see through his windows and see him, im not in the blind spot right? The POINT here is that some people just don't check. If im a rider i would put the loudest fucking exhaust possible. Getting into a life threatening accident because of some retard not being able to hear/see you is the last thing that i would wanna get myself into
I have had pedestrians, cyclists and depending on the angle, entire cars disappear in the blind spot created by the A pillars on my car.

You'd be surprised what drivers can miss.

Clearly you know that visibility is a problem, enough so that you want a super loud exhaust. Whether they can hear you or not, don't ride where you can get hit by a swerving car. This applies to car drivers too.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:11 PM   #43
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^ I think the rule my friend was told in his motorcycle course was "ride like everyone's trying to f***ing kill you."

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That's because they are too busy at car dealerships measuring the width of exhaust tips.
I believe that's in a database somewhere, but I might be wrong.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #44
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"If im a rider i would put the loudest #### exhaust possible. Getting into a life threatening accident because of some retard not being able to hear/see you is the last thing that i would wanna get myself into>"

Then you will be throwing away all the real world riding techniques that will actually save your life. Loud pipes do not prevent cars from pulling out in front of you or turning in front of you because they will not hear a sound being pointed away from them. If you require noise, then get a set of loud horns. There are plenty of aftermarket ones available that will replace the pathetic road runner clones that most motorcycles come from the factory with.

Proactive riding techniques that allows you to recognize hazzards and plan to avoid them are far more efective. Using a headlight modulator, moving withing your own lane to increase visibility, watching your mirrors behind you and doing head checks, using a loud horn so the jerks on cell phones will see you, all those things are far better. Besides, all loud pipes do is upset other road users. If you are relying on their noise to stop you being rearended ( the only place they really can be heard) then that is about 1% of the car vs MC crashes. You are far better using your mirrors and tapping your brake light to alert them. That's my experience as a professional rider instructor, Police MC instructor and 46 year MC rider. Your universe may not parallel mine.

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Old 12-10-2009, 08:56 AM   #45
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PIAA horn ftw!!!!
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:33 PM   #46
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I have 2 air horns under my right saddlebags...125 db. Compressor distance to horns...about 8 inches. Instant response from even cell phone users and deer run right back off the road. Couple actually ran right up a 30 foot bank to get away from the horns. !!
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:27 PM   #47
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I have 2 air horns under my right saddlebags...125 db. Compressor distance to horns...about 8 inches. Instant response from even cell phone users and deer run right back off the road. Couple actually ran right up a 30 foot bank to get away from the horns. !!
and those are totally legal right?! ...
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:23 PM   #48
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And they work just fine.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:03 PM   #49
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1.No idea why people likes to put those stupid LED lights on their front bumper. Is this a trend or what? Audi copy cats?
2.Since 2007, cars with fart-cans have decreased alot. Correct me if im wrong. If you want to gain some HP from stock without increasing the noise significantly. Just change the header and snap on a high-flow cat will be good enough,keep the stock muffler. Only stupid people would rev their car in front or beside a cop. Nowadys if i see cars with fart-cans ill laugh. You want loudness? BUY A FRICKEN LAMBO
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:05 PM   #50
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Hm, have a quick question, say you have a exhaust but got charged with a VI as a result. Later on you purchase a silencer for the said exhaust, will this pass the VI?
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