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Old 02-01-2009, 01:53 PM   #151
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Well, considering theres two things in that post that are completely factually wrong....theres no need to explain considering that you're the expert.

I'm sure someone that does actually know will explain it.

Raybot, I am just trying to get you to see that there is another interpretation of how a real estate transaction works. Don't get offended.

Tell me where the money comes from in a real estate transaction? Anotherwords who writes the cheque?

The buyer or seller? clearly the buyer.

You've already told me how the commission is calculated and divided up, but please tell me where the money comes from? Without the buyer there is no market, no sale, NO COMMISSION. Where am I wrong on this point?
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Old 02-01-2009, 05:07 PM   #152
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Raybot... I suggest you read a book written by Garth Turner titled "Greater Fool"...

Great website for everyone who has an interest in this thread

greaterfool.ca
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:20 PM   #153
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trado, why don't you let up? You're basically arguing semantics.

You can do *anything* in life without an expert. Some things, like open heart surgery or designing a bridge, are definitely best left to experts. Other things, like auto repair or real estate, may be more doable by the average Joe (or Jane). Don't like what a RE agent does? DIY.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:04 PM   #154
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trado, why don't you let up? You're basically arguing semantics.

You can do *anything* in life without an expert. Some things, like open heart surgery or designing a bridge, are definitely best left to experts. Other things, like auto repair or real estate, may be more doable by the average Joe (or Jane). Don't like what a RE agent does? DIY.
ok I'll let up on these guys for now but you gotta believe its more than just semantics. How about you tell me where the commission comes from in a real estate transaction? You seem to be a fairly practical person based on your post...
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:28 PM   #155
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"First, I have heard it said that no party pays the commission and that the transaction actually pays for the services. Figuring that one out may tax your noodle. I am not of that school of thought. That would be like saying that benefits from the government are free. Most of us have found that to be a fallacy. There is no free lunch.

I have also heard it said that when a “For Sale By Owner” property is sold directly to a buyer, both parties think that they have saved the commission. That one may require some even deeper thought. Incidentally, the National Association of Realtors claims that 85 percent of all homes that sell are eventually sold by a Realtor. This is due partially to the fact that sellers tend to price a property too high. Most usually find that, aside from the aspect of the fee, they actually save money with the services of a Realtor. This can make the issue of who pays the commission, and even whether there really is a commission, less transparent or understandable.

Some say that the seller pays the commission, since it is deducted from his proceeds as specified in the listing agreement. Others argue that the buyer pays the commission since it is his money that is given to the seller for the house and is used, in part, to pay the commission. Furthermore, it could be argued that both the buyer and seller pay a share, since they both receive service from the agents.

Although there is no black and white answer to this question, I believe it is the seller who pays the commission. This is not only because it is legally so, but also because the seller is the party that determines the amount and to whom it will be paid. This is similar to the situation of the hardware store owner who sells merchandise and uses the proceeds to pay his employees who make the sales." end quote.

"Who Really Pays the Commission?

It can be argued and, quite rightfully so, that the buyer always pays the commission. Why? Because it's typically part of the sales price. If the seller did not sign an agreement to pay a commission, the sales price might have been lowered. And therein lies the appeal of buying homes through unrepresented sellers because, given the same logic, those prices should reflect a net sales price without a commission. But those sellers haven't quite figured this out yet which causes potential buyers of those listings to be consistently disappointed." end quote.
"

Seems like there might be others who agree with me. Raybot do you think we can come to some common ground here?

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Old 02-02-2009, 08:11 PM   #156
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ok I'll let up on these guys for now but you gotta believe its more than just semantics. How about you tell me where the commission comes from in a real estate transaction? You seem to be a fairly practical person based on your post...
I don't see what difference it really makes. The buyer pays it indirectly. The seller pays it indirectly. It's semantic.

Perhaps the best example is this - if two people consumate a RE transaction without agents, they'd settle on a price of, say $300 000. Does that price already indicate a discount for the lack of agents? Was that discount negotiated and explicitly included? Or does a price of $295 000 reflect the lack of an agent more?

Who cares? The buyer pays more or the seller gets less. Who cares?
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:25 AM   #157
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Quote:
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I don't see what difference it really makes. The buyer pays it indirectly. The seller pays it indirectly. It's semantic.

Perhaps the best example is this - if two people consumate a RE transaction without agents, they'd settle on a price of, say $300 000. Does that price already indicate a discount for the lack of agents? Was that discount negotiated and explicitly included? Or does a price of $295 000 reflect the lack of an agent more?

Who cares? The buyer pays more or the seller gets less. Who cares?
It may be just arguing semantics, but it DOES matter as Raybot is implying that the cost to the buyer is nil when in fact the commission is built in to the price.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:25 PM   #158
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I don't see what difference it really makes. The buyer pays it indirectly. The seller pays it indirectly. It's semantic.

Perhaps the best example is this - if two people consumate a RE transaction without agents, they'd settle on a price of, say $300 000. Does that price already indicate a discount for the lack of agents? Was that discount negotiated and explicitly included? Or does a price of $295 000 reflect the lack of an agent more?

Who cares? The buyer pays more or the seller gets less. Who cares?
It matters when the agent explicitly tells you that you do not pay commission to the buyer's agent.

I don't think we disagree here, we both understand that both the buyer and seller pay commission from the proceeds of the transaction that COMES OUT OF SOMEONES POCKET. You pay commission whether you like it or not, whether your the buyer or seller.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:05 PM   #159
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Raybot... I suggest you read a book written by Garth Turner titled "Greater Fool"...

Great website for everyone who has an interest in this thread

greaterfool.ca
Great suggestion! Real estate agents will have ALOT more time to read books soon
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:01 PM   #160
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Here are my predictions for 2009.

1. Vancouver Downtown Condo's down 20%. Not even Realtor's expert opinion is going to save the downtown core. Here is his quote:

"Downtown condo's usually hold their value the best in comparison to other areas, because dowtown is usually where a lot of people want to be and there is limited space down there. However, a house with land will usually hold it's value because land is even more scarce."

2. Vancouver SFH down 20%. Even the rich and famous rely on leverage to buy their monster mansions. Negative cash flow properties will get dumped onto the market and further depress the situation.

3. MSM (mainstream media/Rennie marketing machine) continuing to suggest that buying condos will turn you into a millionaire after 2010 when all the rich asians and europeans want to buy a condo in Vancouver after seeing Canada Ice Hockey team defeat the US for the gold medal.

4. Real estate agents on this site and across the lowermainland screaming Spring 2009 will be the LAST CHANCE for you to buy in before you get PRICED OUT forever. This will be their last ditch effort to sell to the Greatest Fool still standing in the presale lineup.

5. 10,000 registered real estate agents in GVRD. I predict 30% will hand in their licenses.

6. Not one single real estate agent on this board will take my bet.

7. Olympic Village Development (public) unsold units vs. Concord, Onni, Polygon (private) unsold units. Its going to be a race to the bottom. Vancouver city begins to pimp Olympic Village units and Private developers get angry and sue the city for dumping condos into the marketplace.

8. Thread Lock!
Looks like my #7 predictions is currently being fulfilled...

http://www.vancouversun.com/Homes/Co...234/story.html

Onni attempting to dump units on the marketplace, looking for the last few suckers who have no clue what is happening around them and relying on their real estate agent to advise them on real estate investments.
I feel sorry for these people who used their retirement money to buy a condo and watch it disappear while the their agent is vacationing in Hawaii with the commission.
Wish they had read this thread 9 months ago and saved them the $70,000 they are now about to lose. They should sue their agent for giving them bad advice.
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:12 AM   #161
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Looks like my #7 predictions is currently being fulfilled...

http://www.vancouversun.com/Homes/Co...234/story.html

Onni attempting to dump units on the marketplace, looking for the last few suckers who have no clue what is happening around them and relying on their real estate agent to advise them on real estate investments.
I feel sorry for these people who used their retirement money to buy a condo and watch it disappear while the their agent is vacationing in Hawaii with the commission.
Wish they had read this thread 9 months ago and saved them the $70,000 they are now about to lose. They should sue their agent for giving them bad advice.
Hmmm so what is wrong with Onni dumping their units into the marketplace? Would the buyer be in a situation where they can choose a unit for a cheaper price? I'm confused.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:25 AM   #162
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Looks like my #7 predictions is currently being fulfilled...

http://www.vancouversun.com/Homes/Co...234/story.html

Onni attempting to dump units on the marketplace, looking for the last few suckers who have no clue what is happening around them and relying on their real estate agent to advise them on real estate investments.
I feel sorry for these people who used their retirement money to buy a condo and watch it disappear while the their agent is vacationing in Hawaii with the commission.
Wish they had read this thread 9 months ago and saved them the $70,000 they are now about to lose. They should sue their agent for giving them bad advice.
That sucks for the couple in the article but why sign the deal? 3 years ago there was this house I really really wanted but the developer would not sell it dependent on me selling my home at the time. I decided I didn't want to risk being stuck with two properties so I missed out on it.

Two years later I finally decided it was time to move so I sold my house before even starting to look seriously at places to buy. They are in a horrible position but they were idiots for putting themselves in it. If the market kept on rising and the place was worth 30% more then what they bought it for would they pay the developer more? If the answer is no then I think you have to eat it.
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:07 PM   #163
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its all over people! THERE IS NO PRAYER
housing i believe will decline for the next 4-5 years
im gonna estimate around a 40% drop within that time period, slightly more than analysts.
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:01 PM   #164
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its all over people! THERE IS NO PRAYER
housing i believe will decline for the next 4-5 years
im gonna estimate around a 40% drop within that time period, slightly more than analysts.
And what are you referencing from?

Just your opinion or have you something that you're hiding?
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:05 PM   #165
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Hmmm so what is wrong with Onni dumping their units into the marketplace? Would the buyer be in a situation where they can choose a unit for a cheaper price? I'm confused.
Lets say that you bought a unit 2 months ago at $500 sq/ft. The developer decides to offer 25% discount this month. You would be pretty damn upset if the guy next to you buys at $375 sq/ft (25% discount) right after you moved in?

There is nothing wrong with Onni dumping units on the market. I only predicted it, I never stated it was a bad thing, in fact, its a good thing because people will realize that if developers are getting nervous at all the inventory piling up, maybe there's something going on here in Vancouver, its called a crash. The SMART money is gettin out fast while there are still suckers.

This all comes down to ONCE AGAIN, real estate agents dropping the ball and not protecting the interests of their clients and chasing the last few commissions left out there. If anyone here had taken any of the advice of agents on this thread and bought ANY GVRD real estate last year, they would now be underwater, and be continuing to finance a depreciating asset. Good thing you decided to wait. You just saved 25% from Onni.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:07 PM   #166
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one more thing CRS, 2001 prices are coming near you. Just be patient.
If your looking for references, we can discuss those on PM if you wish.
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:14 PM   #167
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CRS, nobody can predict the future.

That said, when the market hasn't been bubbling or bursting, the price of most housing can be roughly correlated to
a) a multiple of monthly rent
b) a multiple of annual median household income

Otherwise it tends to be unaffordable. People end up buying and living elsewhere. I think in Vancouver, the historic average price of a house has been 4-5 times annual income?! (a premium relative to most of the other parts of the country). You'd have to do some digging for historically correct numbers.

Right now, housing in the GVA is beyond this 4-5 time multiple, so income can either go up, or prices can come down. Doing one is easier than the other.

Last edited by Blinky; 02-12-2009 at 07:16 PM. Reason: clarity.
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:21 PM   #168
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And what are you referencing from?

Just your opinion or have you something that you're hiding?
this is kinda like 1982 all over again
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:01 PM   #169
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one more thing CRS, 2001 prices are coming near you. Just be patient.
If your looking for references, we can discuss those on PM if you wish.
I'll probably end up PMing you within the following year! hahaha looking for another dead time.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:46 PM   #170
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Is there any good online sites that allows for private sale?
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:49 PM   #171
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So looking at mls.ca nothing has changed...

except a lot more houses for sale but no price drops...

jebus when will people learn
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:47 PM   #172
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February 17, 2009
“It doesn’t matter what the market is doing, I don’t say whether or not it’s a good time to buy,” association chief economist Cameron Muir said in an interview Monday. “That being said, I would suspect investors are actively looking in the marketplace for bargains. If you compare today vs. a year ago, investing in real estate is more attractive than it was then.” Vancouver Sun


Anyone here wanna guess who this economist works for?

Its so blatantly transparent, I really hope that everyone in the spring will buy that condo they have been dreaming about. Especially Real estate agents who should really walk the talk and meet me at the next liquidation sale, and I want to see them putting in multiple offers with their own money. If they really believe what they preach, I hope to see Raybot, Realtor and Miss Crayon at the next presale, hey maybe this one http://lifeontheblock.ca/
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:11 PM   #173
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I am looking to buy as well. I am going to do some free number crunching for those interested... here goes.

from the site http://lifeontheblock.ca/themoney/priceranges/

2 Bed + Den townhomes, 1,200 – 1,500 sq. ft, starting from the high $500,000’s
3 Bed townhomes, 1,600 – 1,700 sq. ft., starting from the mid $700,000’s
3 Bed townhomes w/ a finished 1 bedroom basement suite starting from the low $800,000’s

ok high $500,000? let's call it $589,000. Now click in the Canada Mortgage and Housing Company website Mortgage Calculator, here is the link.

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/buho/buho_007.cfm

plug in the numbers that I would use based on my current financial situation...
$80,000 gross income
$15,000 down
4.35%
25 year amortization
100 tax
200 condo fee
100 heating
0 for debt

Press the button and presto! Oh uh, it says I can only afford a $300,000 house. What? A guy making $80,000 can't buy a 2 Bed + Den townhome?

But Don't worry, Mom and dad will co-sign my mortgage and my real estate agent will provide free service (that's what Raybot said), I'll borrow more downpayment on my credit card, and when I go to sleep tonight, I'll be dreaming about living in the best place on earth! Vancouver (gang-capital of Canada).
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:41 PM   #174
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who the fuck borrows for a down payment? If you cant afford the downpayment you cant afford the house.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:01 PM   #175
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who the fuck borrows for a down payment? If you cant afford the downpayment you cant afford the house.
That's his point. Also the fact that unless you receive some generous handouts, the average family making an average income can no where near afford what should be an average home.
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