On average Buster, more money is made in real estate by "normal" investors that almost any other form of investment. Most of the other good investments are real estate related (such as investing in mortgage companies).

An example of this is myself. Starting with 10K I know am running a profit of around 200K in just over 4 years. That is very hard to do starting with a low amount of seed money (legally at least) with very little risk. There are tonnes of different stories I am sure, but most of the people I know have all profited (if they decide to exercise their profits) from real estate.

There is a large difference between investing in real estate with money or lower interest financing from private investment institutions and mortgaging yourself to the nuts to buy a property and call it an investment.

Buying a house and taking a high ratio mortgage (95% +) will almost never be a better long term investment then many other investment channels. You can securly make 12% through dividends on investments year over year in comparison to a mortgage at 5 to 6% interest plus property tax, plus maitence, plus plus plus. You would have to return like 20% property value increase year after year for a mortgaged home purchase to be a good investment. However owning your own home has a intagible return that can be measured - living under your own roof.

Yes you can make money mortgaging and catching a huge upswing in the market, but you can do the same in the stock market. However if you catch a down swing in property prices, and your mortgage is huge you are potentialy gambling with someone elses money. Unless you want to ride it out, but then it has just become a long term investment. Catching the property price spike was a great oppertunity for many.. but it could be the same for a lucky stock on any day of the week. The only problem with mortgages as investments and it being your primary residence, you don't really have a cash in option unless you leave the city or go back to renting unfortunatly, which means its hard to keep investing that money in other channels for further profit.

My ducks are in a row and now I'm seriously looking for something, probably for this winter.

This latest trend is great.

One of my buddies bought a condo in Maple Ridge last year, he lined up for 6 hours or something stupid like that to get in on the pre-sales. It won't be built until mid-late 2009.

It's funny because once he bought it he was gloating to me about it, he would be living near "Downtown" Maple Ridge (Come on, how can you brag about Maple Ridge) with a river view [Sarcasm] WOOOOOOO [/Sarcasm].

He then proceeded to brag about how his condo's value is going to skyrocket in no time.

Well with the recent news about the way real estate is going, he's not gloating anymore.

My mom works for the Land Title Authority of BC, and she says that they have seen a drop in volume there already.

Haha, I probably sound like it, I know. Truth is I'm fairly risky investment wise.

What I meant is that if you buy at the peak, and the market turns and your house is worth less than your mortgage, you just leveraged that 20K downpayment into 100K of debt. It works both ways right?

I think it is great that you were able to cash in on the market. But, if you don't mind me asking, is your money still tied up in equity? You haven't actually made a cent until you sell.

I'm curious about how many of this year's condo presales were bought on the presumption of 40 year mortgages. A shift to 35 years isn't going to hurt that bad, but on top of the interest rate bump we might be seeing next week, this has the potential to finish the condo market pretty quick.

Was it Warren Buffet? The worst reason to buy something is "because it's going up".

My money is currently tied up in Equity. I have no need for it at this time so I am not worried about it. And when I need it, it will have grown tax free (with the exception of a small property tax).

You are right, people can lose money in real estate. This is more true if you treat real estate like some day trader looks at the stock market. It has to be viewed with a longer term approach. Victoria is a very good market for real estate investing. It always has been and I think it always will be. Would I try this in Cranbrook, I don't think so because you don't get the returns to the overall upward trend in the pricing.

To each their own when it comes to where they put their money, but I have not seen the stock market perform that well in several years so at this time, I will keep my money where it is.

It sounds like we're having a vicious agreement. If I had looked at the market as a first time buyer in 2005 or even 2006, I would have probably jumped in with both feet. At the 2008 prices, no way. Housing prices appreciate long term, there's no question--but if the current trend continues we'll have $5-million fixer uppers by the time I'm ready to raise a family. It's nonsense.

It looks like BMO, TD and CIBC (I think) have all scrapped the subprim... ahem... 40-year mortgage well in advance of the October deadline.

It seems like a lot of places went up for sale this weekend, especially along Craigflower between Tillicum and Admirals. Signs everywhere.

Yeah I noticed that too. Its funny cause everyone is selling in a rush cause of the fear of a crash but they don't seem to relieze they are feeding the lower prices!

The same thing is happening in housing and stock markets. Plenty of sellers and not enough buyers.

I'm in PEI right now and there are beautiful homes on huge lots for 250k. Definitely a different lifestyle out here.

i bet they do know this.

This is traditionally a very hot time in the market. There will be houses on the market for sure, but there has not been as many as usual.

Actually, inventory is up more than 25% compared to this time last year. There are a lot more places for sale right now than usual. It doesn't help that sales are down 20%.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2170/n1junenw3.jpg

Graphs from http://www.members.shaw.ca/needinbox/

I wonder how many listings are people who need to sell quick, vs people who are not in a hurry and are fishing their properties to cash in on an investment.

Good question, I know of atleast one person who is selling right now with no need to sell. They bought a house 25years ago, used it as a rental for the past 18years and now have gotten tired of the upkeep on it so they are remodeling it and cashing in. They figure its been paid off for the past 5years, they paid $85000 originally so even if they only get $350,000 for it, they are way up

Homebuyers get a break as B.C. house prices flatten
Gillian Shaw, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, July 15, 2008

"Muir said market conditions favour the buyer in all parts of of the province except for Victoria and northeastern B.C. "

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/st...1-130518aa92d1

Fuck Victoria.... lol. It will tail off here too.

Muir is hilarious. A month ago he was calling for 9 percent gains this year. 2 weeks ago it was going to track inflation (gains of what, 3-4 percent?). Today its "fairly flat or drop a couple percent a year".

I don't know how that guy retains any credibility.

honestly, you can't take any "experts" opinion as anything more then that, an opinion. No one really knows where things are going. Being a homeowner I believe we are going to see a decline in prices but it won't be as harsh as the american situation and I have a hard time believing anyone "waiting" is going to come out much further ahead then I did by buying last year, I just can't see the prices drop that much. I also believe it will bounce back in a few years and being an owner I still made a wise choice to buy instead of renting. Do I pay more then I did when I rented, yes. Could I have saved more and invested it better then in a condo at this time, maybe but I enjoy calling it my place, to me there is a nice feeling to walk into your own place knwoing no one can say no to a colour choice, etc. And at the end of the day, does everything we spend money on have to be considered an investment? Cause if it does, I guess pretty much everyone on RS is investing their hard earned money poorly.

Like Projectcivic explained, purchasing property is an investment that returns more then just dollers and cents.

No housing bubble in Canada: Flaherty from today

Bernanke: There's No Housing Bubble to Go Bust from Oct 2005

When the government stats denying it, you know you're in trouble.

intereseting i guess but i still we are comparing 2 different situations

From The Globe and Mail:

Take from that what you will.

Because this is somewhat of an interesting topic.... The prices and housing market are doing fairly well now.

Source: http://www.vreb.org <-- Victoria Real Estate Board

October 1, 2009

The Victoria area real estate market showed signs of growing strength last month as property sales rose to their highest level for the month of September since 1992 accompanied by modest price increases for single family homes and condominiums. A total of 776 homes and other properties sold in September through the Victoria Real Estate Board’s Multiple Listing Service® (MLS®), up from the 764 sales in August and up nearly 50 per cent compared to the 512 sales in September of last year.

Victoria Real Estate Board President, Chris Markham, says the market has clearly recovered and now appears to be very stable, "The last seven months have shown a steady improvement in sales and price stability. It’s very encouraging when we look back over the past several years and see sales now exceeding typical levels for this time of year."

There were 3,419 properties available for sale at the end of September, down 28 per cent from the 4,754 properties available in the same month a year ago. "We are now seeing some renewed upward pressure on prices as a result of the declining inventory," noted Markham.

The average price for single family homes sold in Greater Victoria last month was $619,936, up from $596,498 in August. Markham noted that the average price was affected by 24 sales of over $1 million. "These included five sales of over $2 million, three in Saanich East, one in Victoria and one on the Gulf Islands which had a significant impact on the overall average price," he stated. The median price increased $10,000 to $550,000. The six-month average was $581,498. The overall average price for condominiums was $325,106 last month, up from $317,312 in August. The average for the last six months was $311,546. The median price for condominiums in September was $295,000. The average price of all townhomes sold last month was $441,966 down from $455,430 in August. The median price dropped slightly to $415,000. The six month average was $426,521.

MLS® sales last month included 437 single family homes, 197 condominiums, 79 townhomes and 15 manufactured homes.

2 year Graph of average selling prices (monthly)
http://www.vreb.org/pdf/vrebgap.pdf

**There are several things in Sept that play into the increased average price (such as sales over 1 million), but looking at the chart, it is interesting.