I have a friend that treated some of those involved in the accident. Apparently the third child is paralyzed from the neck down. The granny and aunt are in serious condition.

i don't think there is for highway HOV lanes... not like the ones in the city.

so if it was down to speed and strength you'd take a 40 year old woman over a teenaged boy?

you bet on the washington generals don't you?

They are due for a win sooner or later. What are they, 0-10000000000 and 1-1000000000000000000000000000 lifetime? :thumbsup:

SumAznGuy: Wow, you are so fucking closed-minded and stupid I don't know what to say.

Broken gear teeth jam and the gears stop moving. Gears are connected to the drive wheels. Gears stop turning and the wheels stop turning. Is that too fucking hard for you to comprehend?

This has occurred 10 times on Hondas in the US (last time stats were available) whereby the wheels locked up causing loss of control of the vehicle. There were no reported injuries in these 10 cases.

Honda isn't the only manufacturer that has issued a recall for transmissions locking causing loss of vehicle control due to wheel lock up. I just posted the Honda one since it is a recent example.

I have personally never seen a transmission lock up this way. So I guess that means it never happens, right? Wanna know what? I've never been in a plane crash either, so I guess planes don't crash. :rolleyes:


I also see you're avoiding the steering issue. While wasting a huge amount of time arguing with Soundy about being able to steer a vehicle that's moving even if the power steering fails, you completely overlooked an obvious problem of steering rack failure resulting in seized steering (the BMW example I gave).


Shows how much you understand about the mechanics of vehicles, doesn't it?

I see you respond to what you like and pass on whatever that doesn't suit you. ;)

This is the internet. Don't have a heart attack over it.

But since we are here and having this nice discussion, let's see.
Close-minded and stupid are two different issues, which I am neither. All that I asked is for you to explain to everyone how a broken transmission can lead to a the wheels locking up. And it took me how many post where I had to repeat the same thing before you explained it to us. So close minded, definately not. Stupid, I'd say I was more uninformed. As for you, reading comprehension = Fail.

So you've never seen a transmission fail which caused it to lock up the wheels and yet you are passing it off as fact. Isn't this the basic reason why I asked what I asked?
So you never seen a plane crash, does it really happen? If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

Since you claim I am stupid, answer me this question. When those transmissions failed and the wheels locked up, at what speeds did this happen? And what were the conditions like?
I guess this is my fault that I didn't specify the exact conditions, but in general, things fail and break at the weakest point. So if those incidents happened in the rain/snow, yeah I can see the wheels locking up. If the cars had near new tires and the vehicle was heavily weighed down, would the wheels still lock up or would something else break first like the transmission housing, broken gears, or drive shaft?

So who is close minded now?

Just because something is posted on the internet, it doesn't mean it is the end all and everyone should believe it. That is intelligence.

Gee. I want to stop posting now because I have better things to do, but then you will claim I am avoiding topics since I claimed that about you. Just like calling the kettle black.

Well, you mentioned the BMW. If the steering rack was as seized as you try to make it out to, the powersteering hose/pump would have failed in no time. So we are now talking about a steering rack that is failing and it takes more effort than it should to turn the wheels, even though the car is off the ground. You make a good point. The logic is there. So I will agree, parts break down over time, which may cause a car who lost the powersteering to be very difficult to steer even if the car is moving.
But what I said isn't fully wrong. If the car was in perfect working order, isn't everyone's cars supposedf to be, the car can still be steered even if the powersteer was to fail.

As for mentioning Soundy, well his post proved nothing for him other than someone who has claimed they have driven a car where the powersteer failed and the car was undriveable and that he knows how to use google and is able to copy and paste. No mention of what car it was and any other relivent information. At least with your BMW case, you figured out the steering rack was sticking.

So how does you being a red seal mechanic make you any better than some of the other mechanics out there?

You don't have to answer this question because I already answered it for you. ;)

Since the qustion was asked, the last news article I could find was from the 10th and they said the family has donated the organs from the 2 dead kids to people who need organ transplants.
The 2 drivers will be charged with driving in the HOV while being the sole occupant of the vehicle. The driver of the BMW is still being investigated and no words of charges yet.

And the police have yet to talk to the mother who was driving the broken down vehicle and they have yet to announce why the cabin filled with smoke or why she didn't pull the vehicle off to the side of the road.

RIP

these two kids went to my elementary school blessings to the family

ghahah funny article RIP to the boys first though.
What i find funny is that, the BMW driver won't even care so long as he won't be jailed. Lol, a new x5 is worth like nothing to him. insurance raise = meh w.e

Didn't there used to be a shoulder to the left of the HOV lane before the city started fucking it all up?

Rip.

No. He will just be driving on either his parents/wife/gf's insurance for the next 3 years is all.

Bottom line, SumAznGuym, I stated a transmission could lock up and you stated it couldn't.

And even if the transmission failed, the wheels on the bus go round and round. Round and round.... You FAIL at mechanics and logic.

How do YOU know that a broken transmission will lock up? How much about mechanics do YOU know? So please tell me. How does a broken transmission lock the drive wheels?

If you understood mechanics, you wouldn't have had to ask such a mundane question like "how does a broken transmission lock the drive wheels".

You repeatedly asking me to explain why is about the same as asking me to prove 2+2=4. I don't see the point in explaining something so simple to someone who claims to be a knowledgeable mechanic.

And yes, you did answer the question about a Red Seal vs a regular mechanic by showing your ignorance about how transmissions operate and how they can fail.

holy christ, so many detectives on this site. great job uncovering the truth with what very little amount of information has been laid.
speculate all you want, but all we know is that the suv and echo were driving illegally in the HOV lane. that warrants a ticket and that's all. whether they were speeding, driving without due care, or whether the sienna had enough time/capability to pull over to the shoulder is not known. your assumptions mean absolutely nothing. stop with the ego-tripping and RIP to those 2 children. condolences to the family

holy shit, watch that video guys, fucked up...

thread revived as a follow-up to this accident that happened 4 years ago.

new info and outcome

Guilty plea for crash that killed two children in 2008 - News1130

**warning!! tread carefully in this thread from now on, nothing but discussions. No personal attacks, no deconstructive comments/posts

VAC mods authorized to hand out 7 day bans if things get out of hand.

other than that, discuss.

hmm.. interesting.. hes being judged and fined under MVA... so no charges for two counts of manslaughter?? (i dont know my law that well..)

Why should he be charged with manslaughter?

He wasn't intoxicated/impaired and did not have a bad record, other than tickets from a while ago. The Van was stopped in the middle of the road.
That's dangerous as hell.

So a person STOPS in the HOV lane of a highway, and gets rear ended? OK, A bad accident. Charges for the unlucky person who hit them? No. No drugs, No alchohol, Speeding? Slightly. They said with the flow of traffic. Raise his insurance, that's about all i see fit. It's not like he sped up and purposely plowed into the van. She was stopped completely in the fastest lane on the highway for christ sake.

I'm not sure if it's the appropriate place to ask, but since it does seem relevant, if your car breaks down in the middle of the highway what is the safest thing to do? Especially if you have children, such as in this case.

I guess it does depends night and day, but just wondering what the correct procedure is, or at least the less dangerous one.

RIP to the boys and condolences to the family...I can't even imagine what that must be like.

I hate idiots who use the HOV when they are the only ones in the car.. they should be jailed for manslaughter, arg!!!!


RIP, such young boys too...

I guess the best thing is to buy lots of road flares or hazzard signs and place them far down the road behind you, thats if your stuck smack between 2 lanes... I wouldnt suggest to roll it to the side UNLESS you are able to stop the the flow of traffic and roll your car to the shoulder


wow, the HOV lane isnt the DRIVE FAST LANE!!! YOU do know what HOV stands for, right??

^Turn on your hazard and you should be able to have enough momentum to coast to the side. That's what everyone should be doing.

Manslaughter? Why? Guy was travelling highway speed on the usual fastest lane on the highway and hit a stationary vehicle. He didn't run away and reportedly was trying to help? I don't see why he should be charged with anything more than driving on the HOV lane with less than 2 occupants.

HOV is not a "drive-fast-lane" but usually have the highest average speed compare to other lane due to its nature....

This is unfortunate and could have happened to anyone.

My comment about him being charged with manslaughter wasnt something I want happen, its just a comment..

he should get a little jail time and license suspended, his past driving record shows he doesnt drive with care

"Miller does have a previous driving record that could influence the judge's decision at sentencing, including tickets for speeding and not using a seat belt."

I honestly think that the emotional damage on all parties involved is more than enough punishment. The guy does seem genuinely regretful...

When a small mistaken action leads to horrendous consequences, where do we put the blame?

It's misleading news headlines such as CBC's "BC Man fined $1,500 for crash that killed 2 boys" that open this debate...but if you try and put yourself in the shoes of anyone involved from either party, you can see that it's not really a topic that should be debated.

I honestly just feel sorry for everybody involved, including the BMW driver.

dude the van was stopped in the MIDDLE of the HOV lane. not on the shoulder, but in the middle of the motherfucking lane. the defendant's clearly at fault for driving in the HOV when he shouldn't have, but there's no way to say that another car wouldn't have just as easily run into the van. it's a fuckin tragedy that 2 kids were killed and another one left paralyzed, and just the knowledge of that will haunt the guy for the rest of his life.

on the flip side, what if the same thing happened but nobody in the van got hurt? what if an asian lady stopped in the middle of the HOV when she saw smoke in her mercedes and then subsequently got hit by another car, causing a pile up in the middle of hwy 1? whose fault would it be then?

as tragic as the crash was, you can't put the full blame on the bmw driver. in the end it is what it is, an accident.

whatever fines and prohibition is nothing compared to the emotional guilt he had to deal with for killing 2 young children...


kinda cruel to say this, but I think the driver of the stopped mini-van bear as much responsibility as the other driver for the accident...

Stopping in the middle of a highway lane when cars are moving at 100km/h+ is akin to suicide..There is no reason why the driver couldn't pull the van to the shoulder when the van fails.
If your engine fails completely in the middle of the road, you pull to the side as your car glide to a stop...you don't just stop in the middle of the highway lane...

The mini-van was on the HOV lane, it should have plenty of time to pull to the side while the van roll to a stop.