Athletes village may cost taxpayers $1B

[hotjoint]

Originally Posted by orange7

after they sell away the apartments, are they going to give all vacouverites a $100 cheque? Cause i'm DOWN!

i wish

[hal0g0dv2]

Originally Posted by Amuse

They are using 1 billion to build a village on False Creek...

ahhh icic, crazy

[RRxtar]

yes, because they are going to tear down the luxury appartments as soon as the olympics are over. i wonder why they never thought to sell them off after and make nearly all of their money back? stupid canada is so stupid.

[anti_rice]

Originally Posted by johny

the place will cost 1 billion to build.... the city now owns a huge housing complex. all of which will be sold off after the olympics... and by then house prices will probably be on the way up.

the city isn't stuck with a billion dollar permanent debt, they are stuck with a 2 year loan... after which they might even make it all back, or even profit from.

If you do the math the city is actually going to loose money.

There are 1,100 units. If you sell each unit for $500,000 you only bring in $550 Million.
Unless each unit goes for $1 mill each, the city will not even come close to breaking even.

[johny]

well the original cost estimate was around 700 mill to build. the original contractor / financing company sure as hell wouldn't have started it just to lose money. so the property would have been worth at least 800 or so when they started. but now they've over run on the budget, and housing has dropped. so they probably won't make any profit, but they'd still get a bunch back. the media is trying to make it seem like Vancouver lost a billion dollars. when really they might lose a few hundred mill. there is a big difference.

[static]

Originally Posted by johny

the place will cost 1 billion to build.... the city now owns a huge housing complex. all of which will be sold off after the olympics... and by then house prices will probably be on the way up.

the city isn't stuck with a billion dollar permanent debt, they are stuck with a 2 year loan... after which they might even make it all back, or even profit from.

That's an excellent point. However, I did some simple math...1100 units. Factor in loan interest etc and the current housing prices. They are looking at at least 1,000,000 per condo (1,000,000 X 1100 =1.1 billion)...IMHO that's pretty far fetched. We'll be lucky to break even.

[MyPresIzBlack]

PST is going up!!

[goo3]

Originally Posted by johny

well the original cost estimate was around 700 mill to build. the original contractor / financing company sure as hell wouldn't have started it just to lose money. so the property would have been worth at least 800 or so when they started. but now they've over run on the budget, and housing has dropped. so they probably won't make any profit, but they'd still get a bunch back. the media is trying to make it seem like Vancouver lost a billion dollars. when really they might lose a few hundred mill. there is a big difference.

yeah, mayor's just trying to shift blame and set low expectations to score some pts later.

apparently the special environmental stuff jack up construction costs quite a bit.. anyone know by how much? 1 BILLION to build 1100 units.. hmm

Plus FIG is @ $2.25..

[sulos]

On October 14, 1964, after being deposed by his rivals at a Central Committee meeting, primarily for being an "international embarassment," Nikita Khrushchev, who until only moments earlier was the First Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, sat down in his office and wrote two letters.

Later, his successor, Leonid Brezhnev, upon taking office found the two letters and a note Khrushchev had attached:


"To my successor: When you find yourself in a hopeless situation which you cannot escape, open the first letter, and it will save you. Later, when you again find yourself in a hopeless situation from which you cannot escape, open the second letter."

And soon enough, Brezhnev found himself in a situation which he couldn't get himself out of, and in desperation he tore open the first letter. It said simply, "Blame it all on me." This Brezhnev did, blaming Khrushchev for the latest problems, and it worked like a miracle, saving him and extending his career. However, in due time Brezhnev found himself in another disaster from which he could not extricate himself. Without despairing he eagerly searched his office and found the second letter, which he tore open desperate for its words of salvation. It read thus:


"Sit down, and write two letters."

Mr. Roberston has opened the first letter.

EDIT* found the quote

[Ferra]

Originally Posted by 68style

Is there a reason anyone can explain why a bunch of athletes need to have brand new top-of-the-line personal luxury apartments for the TWO fucking weeks that they are here?

Everything about the Olympics is total bullshit. If it ceased to exist, nothing would change in the world.

My question exactly....why the fuck do we need to built a brand new luxury waterfront apartment for the the athletes???
If the hosting city is to suppose to provide free housing for the athletes, I think a 3 stars hotel ought to be more than enough. But somehow we decide to spend 1 billions to build a luxurious apartment so they can live here for 2 weeks.

I know apart from athletes housing, it is also a housing project and the unit will be sold after the Olympic finishes. But still...the city is not a housing developer, and the costs and risks associated with such project is FAR greater than the cost of throwing those athletes into a 3 stars+ hotel for 2 weeks

Well, yes we didn't lose 1 billions like the media suggest, but at the end we will probably lose hundreds of millions and that's still alot of money for the city.

I get the feeling that Vancouver's economy and especially its housing market will be screwed after 2010.

[Soundy]

Robertson's a tool. He's blaming the mess on his NPA predecessors, yet he and his Vision buddies voted FOR the project in the first place, right along with the NPA.

And the anti-Olympics whiners who are now saying "I told you so" are tools as well. The Olympics aren't to blame for this; greed, corruption, stupidity, and political jockeying are, and they've been around since long before the Olympics even existed.

[blkgsr]

there is so much misinformation and ignorent commenting in this thread it's not even funny

you guys really need to learn the correct facts about this project before you comment

so far, no one has stated anything correctly....other than the fact they are building residential units

there is so very much more going into this project

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by blkgsr

there is so much misinformation and ignorent commenting in this thread it's not even funny

you guys really need to learn the correct facts about this project before you comment

so far, no one has stated anything correctly....other than the fact they are building residential units

there is so very much more going into this project

So why don't you take the opportunity to enlighten us?

[q0192837465]

Originally Posted by Soundy

And the anti-Olympics whiners who are now saying "I told you so" are tools as well. The Olympics aren't to blame for this; greed, corruption, stupidity, and political jockeying are, and they've been around since long before the Olympics even existed.

Can't agree more. The Olympic itself is a good thing. But it's the corruptions in the government that make it into a bad thing.

[Soundy]

^Well, they have VANOC as their role model...

[rslater]

Originally Posted by blkgsr

there is so much misinformation and ignorent commenting in this thread it's not even funny

you guys really need to learn the correct facts about this project before you comment

so far, no one has stated anything correctly....other than the fact they are building residential units

there is so very much more going into this project

I agree with you...but your a tool for not explaining anything.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by Gumby

So why don't you take the opportunity to enlighten us?

Wow just vanished

[falcon]

Originally Posted by anti_rice

If you do the math the city is actually going to loose money.

There are 1,100 units. If you sell each unit for $500,000 you only bring in $550 Million.
Unless each unit goes for $1 mill each, the city will not even come close to breaking even.

We may loose money up front when you look strictly at the numbers. But the impact that the Olympics will have on our economy will last for a very long time. It will bring more money INTO our city over the next 10 years.

Do you think many people had heard of Torino before they got the Olympics.. I sure hadn`t. And now they are a VERY popular resort town.

[68style]

^
Money into our city for who? Rich people who own resorts and restaurants and hotels? Why would any of us give a fuck?

Vancouver's already busy enough as it is, it doesn't need to get busier and more populated and all the economic benefits will be seen only by people who are already in a position to take advantage of them (ie: already wealthy) that's why Jimmy Pattison has such a big grin on his face and shows up at every Olympics event.

Also handling of the publicity in the 6 months after is key... Maybe Torino did it right but guess what? Whistler is already a world-renowned resort......

Ask Athens how they're doing with their empty softball stadiums and acres of unused parking lots + $14 billion debt Or Salt Lake City? Who? Where?

Montreal *just* finished paying for the Olympic Stadium this year. Wicked!

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by 68style

^
Money into our city for who? Rich people who own resorts and restaurants and hotels? Why would any of us give a fuck?

How about for just about EVERY small business in the Metro area? Most restaurants are NOT owned by "rich people", they're owned by the little guys who are running the family business or living their dream and just trying to make ends meet some months. How about the small shops and corner stores and boutiques, like all those shop owners who had to leave Cambie when their business dried up because of the Canada Line mess? They weren't "rich" by any stretch, and the same way that a small drop in their business can kill them, even a small boost can be their lifeblood.

It's not just places in Whistler and downtown... think of places along the route to Whistler (well, that means mostly just Squamish) that will see increased business. How about all the visitors coming in who will be renting accommodations in the outlying suburbs, and will be patronizing local businesses there?

Imagine: you leave an event downtown, you head back to the basement suite you're renting in PoCo... you stop for dinner at the little sushi place on Prairie and maybe pick up some groceries from the IGA or vegetable market - bingo, more money in the LOCAL economy, NOT just the pockets of the rich. And that homeowner you're renting from now has more money in his pocket, which he'll then roll back into the local economy down the road.

People really need to think outside their own insignificant little back yards.

Montreal *just* finished paying for the Olympic Stadium this year. Wicked!

FAIL.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...219?hub=Canada

Montreal's Olympic Stadium finally paid off

Updated Tue. Dec. 19 2006 11:00 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Montreal's Olympic Stadium, known as "The Big Owe," needs a new nickname. The facility's debt has finally been retired after 30 years.

blkgsr is right - people just comment out of sheer ignorance. They hear something from an unreliable, probably ranting source with its own agenda, accept it as fact, come up with some even more twisted opinions, repeat those as fact, someone else hears it and takes it as fact... it's like the old "gossip game" from elementary school.

Take a minute... even just 30 seconds... to find out a little bit about something before you go running off at the keyboard and making yourself look like an idiot. As the old axiom goes, "Better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[68style]

Originally Posted by Soundy

How about for just about EVERY small business in the Metro area? Most restaurants are NOT owned by "rich people", they're owned by the little guys who are running the family business or living their dream and just trying to make ends meet some months. How about the small shops and corner stores and boutiques, like all those shop owners who had to leave Cambie when their business dried up because of the Canada Line mess? They weren't "rich" by any stretch, and the same way that a small drop in their business can kill them, even a small boost can be their lifeblood.

It's not just places in Whistler and downtown... think of places along the route to Whistler (well, that means mostly just Squamish) that will see increased business. How about all the visitors coming in who will be renting accommodations in the outlying suburbs, and will be patronizing local businesses there?

*snip*

FOR TWO EFFING WEEKS man...

I'd feel sorry for any business that makes its bottom line up from 2-3 weeks of increased business!

You're fooling yourself if you think this is going to benefit us long term... yah sure the Canada Line got built and all these other infrastructure things, I understand those WILL benefit us long term but it's ludicrous that it took the Olympics (again, a TWO WEEK event that is so overindulged on its own importance these days its almost a contest to see who can spend the most money putting them on) to build those things... funny how that money ONLY became available to support a 2 week event that a bunch of rich people get to hobnob at and make business deals or get their firms involved in building said infrastructure. That infrastructure should have been built legitimately YEARS ago, too little too late by a shortsighted government that can't even see into the future despite the fact the plans are laid out in numerous other cities in the world for them to follow.

I hear the other argument coming: "Vancouver is a no fun city, finally we have a big event!" How about instead of this decadence of affluence we're building toward, we use a smidgen of that money to bring back the Molson Indy or attract Formula 1 or maybe MotoGP here? Streamline applications/paperwork so that Pemberton's Music Festival can go on again in 2009? Bring in a MLS soccer franchise with an updated stadium? Build a race track near to town? All these things didn't (or haven't yet) happened because of money and government not thinking they're sexy enough to dive headfirst into. The Olympics will come and go and Vancouver will go back to being a boring city.

I mean really all of this stuff is beyond the scope of understanding for any of us since there are so many layers to it, but if you honestly think that you are going to benefit in some way from this (other than the enjoyment of watching Canada win some medals) I'll gladly buy you a beer 5 years from now, my guess is you'll be on your way to the bank to cut a cheque to pay your substantially increased property and income taxes just like me.

Sorry that it only took 30 years for Montreal to pay their stadium off, not 32... big effing whoop.

It's a simple question really, I'll watch the Olympics just like everyone else... but at the end of the day, was it worth spending several billion dollars+ to host a 2 week long sporting event? Was it? I don't think so... but hey, at least we didn't spend $40 billion like China. Imagine what they could have done with that money to bring that country's people out of the stone age? Same thing here... keep in mind the schools or hospitals that should have been built when your kid is complaining he can't get enough of the teacher's time at school or when you're older and you need to wait 6 months for an operation..............

Anyway, it's a moot point, 64% of the population already voted 5 years ago to put us into this indebted mess (I wonder how many would change their mind now), just have to sit back and watch it all unravel now

By the way, you need to really cut the personal insults out of your arguments, they'd hold a lot more weight and I seriously doubt you would reiterate those particular points to my face or to anyone you know so its rather hypocritical to discuss spouting off at the keyboard since that is precisely what you've done. I can understand why you believe in the points you've made above and won't marginalize you for believing in them, I just think you're going to be proven wrong in the long term, so not sure why you see fit to call me an idiot and whatever else above since none of what I said is a stretch of the imagination nor am I alone in what I've stated.

[Great68]

An olympics project over budget... There's something new.

It kind of sucks that only Vancouver residents got to participate in the Plebicite years back, when this will now affect the entire province (Should the BC government grant the loan, which I'm sure it will).

[Soundy]

What loan is that? They're not asking the BC government for a loan...

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Soundy

What loan is that? They're not asking the BC government for a loan...

*doo dee doo*

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome

"Vancouver councillors seek $458-million Olympic loan
Updated: Tue Jan. 13 2009 06:20:28

CTV.ca News Staff

City councillors in Vancouver are seeking emergency borrowing powers to ensure they have enough money to finish the athletes' village for the 2010 Winter Games. "

"Meanwhile, a city councillor close to the Robertson says the provincial government may ultimately be on the hook for the project. "

"The costs will ultimately still fall on the province since the venues will have to be completed -- whatever the price in order that they be ready in time for the Games" -- if private backers walk away. "

[blkgsr]

for those that wanted me to explain, i can't