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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 02-25-2009, 08:38 PM   #1
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Behind the Wheel - Jaywalking

I read the Victoria Times Colonist on line each morning and today's story about jaywalking caught my attention. After reading the story all I am left with is the feeling that the situation was poorly explained and readers were left with the impression that the police should have been doing more important things. Jaywalking is something that everyone does and it isn't a bad thing to do.

The two sections in the Motor Vehicle Act that regulate pedestrians not in a crosswalk only do so when the pedestrian has either failed to yield to vehicular traffic or stepped off the curb at a time when the driver could not yield to them even if they tried to. Both of these situations are dangerous, interrupt traffic flow and potentially result in injury or death. The adults being dealt with in this story that feel put upon definitely know better and have no room to complain.

A spokesperson for the City of Victoria says that jaywalking is allowed in that area because of an exemption to the traffic bylaw used to promote a pedestrian friendly area. What they might have said is that crossing at a place other than a crosswalk is not prohibited, but pedestrians still must yield to vehicles if they do so. Municipalities are not permitted to create bylaws that are at odds to the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Act.

In 2006, which is the last year I.C.B.C. has posted collision statistics for, 1,884 collisions injured 1,971 and killed 70 people in our province. In addition, the frequency of pedestrian collisions has risen steadily from 2002 to 2006. About 40% of these collisions resulted from the pedestrian doing something that involved them in the collision rather than being the fault of the driver.

It's not reasonable to only deal with the drivers. Pedestrians must shoulder their share of the responsibility and perhaps need a refresher on how to cross the road safely.

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Old 02-25-2009, 08:52 PM   #2
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look left, look right and left again?
i thought they taught that in like grade 3...

is there anyway to find out where it's legal to cross the road in cities?

quality post skidmark
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:09 PM   #3
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Thanks, I try.

Point your way to safety is a good one too.

Rule of thumb, unless a bylaw says otherwise, if you cross properly in a crosswalk, a driver must yield to you. If you cross anywhere else, you must yield to the driver. Some bylaws forbid you to cross except at intersections/crosswalks. The only way to find out is to inquire.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:33 PM   #4
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Rule of thumb, unless a bylaw says otherwise, if you cross properly in a crosswalk, a driver must yield to you. If you cross anywhere else, you must yield to the driver. Some bylaws forbid you to cross except at intersections/crosswalks. The only way to find out is to inquire.
Oh how I WISH that everyone knew this.
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:28 PM   #5
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I was so scared when a yound lady carrying his walkman on her hands and ear plugs on her ears and jaywalking on SW marine Drive on a sunday morning.

She was walking diagonally across 6lanes without even looking .. I was glad I was doing way under 50kph cause I started moving after a green light..
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:56 PM   #6
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Thanks, I try.

Point your way to safety is a good one too.

Rule of thumb, unless a bylaw says otherwise, if you cross properly in a crosswalk, a driver must yield to you. If you cross anywhere else, you must yield to the driver. Some bylaws forbid you to cross except at intersections/crosswalks. The only way to find out is to inquire.
So as long as you aren't impeding vehicle travel, a pedestrian CAN cross with no crosswalk unless prohibited by local bylaws?

This leaves too much uncertainty. How do we know where bylaws allow/prohibit crossing? Perhaps signs should be installed in places where jaywalking is illegal? Perhaps signs should be installed where it IS legal, but then again that would be what crosswalks are for.
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:03 AM   #7
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Thanks, I try.

Point your way to safety is a good one too.

Rule of thumb, unless a bylaw says otherwise, if you cross properly in a crosswalk, a driver must yield to you. If you cross anywhere else, you must yield to the driver. Some bylaws forbid you to cross except at intersections/crosswalks. The only way to find out is to inquire.
this should be common sense haha
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:51 AM   #8
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Also, make eye contact if you're crossing. Be at a cross walk, or just a misjudgement in timing.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:02 AM   #9
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So as long as you aren't impeding vehicle travel, a pedestrian CAN cross with no crosswalk unless prohibited by local bylaws?

This leaves too much uncertainty. How do we know where bylaws allow/prohibit crossing? Perhaps signs should be installed in places where jaywalking is illegal? Perhaps signs should be installed where it IS legal, but then again that would be what crosswalks are for.
No, what he said was that if someone is crossing the street, they must yield to the vehicles unless that person is crossing at a crosswalk in which case the driver must yield. Quite simple, and the safest way to cross a street. And as for knowing what those other bylaws regarding crossing and yielding are, look up your municipality's bylaws online or phone their bylaw office.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:32 AM   #10
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I wish that BC would institute here in BC what Newfoundland did back in the late 80s'. it helped the pedestrian VS Car thing greatly. If a ped wanted to cross a X walk, they stood at the curb and raised their arm at a 45 degree from their shoulder. Drivers, seeing this, knew the ped really was crossing so they stopped. It was clear to everyone. J walkers were ticketesd if trhey affected traffic...if they did not it was not a problem.

They didn't have the problem with cyclists pretending they were peds like they do here in BC and ride on sadewalks right out into traffic on X walks, demanding cars stop for them. I refuse to stop for cyclists who try to ride on X walks. I give them plenty of horn in my own vehicle and siren in the PC if they tried to ride out. I DO watch to see that they will actually stop for me as I don't want to hit a idiot on 2 wheels...it will damage my car & that's not happening. It bothers me that other motorists will stop for them. I will not, if it can be done safely. I let them know that what they are doing is illegal and unsafe and possibly educate other drivers at the same time. On occasion other un-informed drivers have not been "supportive of my actions" and I've been fingered & cursed at. While on duty I would stop and tell both the cyclists and drivers what they were doing wrong.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:14 AM   #11
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It's not reasonable to only deal with the drivers. Pedestrians must shoulder their share of the responsibility and perhaps need a refresher on how to cross the road safely.
Pedestrians (and cyclists) need to keep in mind that the laws of physics trump the laws of the land - right-of-way or not, if you go head-to-head with a car, you'll lose every time.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:34 AM   #12
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I will only stop for a cyclist if they want to use a crosswalk if they have gotten off their bike and walk the bike across. If they are on the bike waiting at the crosswalk, I wouldn't stop for them. That's how I do it.
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:24 AM   #13
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Me too!
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:33 AM   #14
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I wish that BC would institute here in BC what Newfoundland did back in the late 80s'. it helped the pedestrian VS Car thing greatly. If a ped wanted to cross a X walk, they stood at the curb and raised their arm at a 45 degree from their shoulder. Drivers, seeing this, knew the ped really was crossing so they stopped. It was clear to everyone. J walkers were ticketesd if trhey affected traffic...if they did not it was not a problem.

They didn't have the problem with cyclists pretending they were peds like they do here in BC and ride on sadewalks right out into traffic on X walks, demanding cars stop for them. I refuse to stop for cyclists who try to ride on X walks. I give them plenty of horn in my own vehicle and siren in the PC if they tried to ride out. I DO watch to see that they will actually stop for me as I don't want to hit a idiot on 2 wheels...it will damage my car & that's not happening. It bothers me that other motorists will stop for them. I will not, if it can be done safely. I let them know that what they are doing is illegal and unsafe and possibly educate other drivers at the same time. On occasion other un-informed drivers have not been "supportive of my actions" and I've been fingered & cursed at. While on duty I would stop and tell both the cyclists and drivers what they were doing wrong.
Thank god at least one officer is doing this.

The "holier than though" cycle Nazis have gotten WAY out of hand in this city. Ever time a cyclist gets hit, it seems like itís the automatically "drivers" fault. Iím not saying the drivers are perfect (god knows they arenít) but the cyclists seem to have this "go for it, just try and hit me" attitude.

I have personally had my car hit TWICE by cyclists. Both times were not my fault, and were do to the cyclists ignoring road laws. Guess who get to pay for the damage to my car though? Yup, me.

As a road going vehicle, when are cyclists going to have to start paying insurance too?
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:00 PM   #15
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Guess who get to pay for the damage to my car though? Yup, me.
Small claims court is an avenue that you can use to get the cyclist to pay up.
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:03 PM   #16
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BC attitude towards Jaywalking isnt great..

I have grown up here..

and to this day.. i do jaywalk.. and have the idea that cars will slow down.. and why because they do.. (Unless they dont see me) however that isnt the case around the world..

On my first trip you Europe, i was in amsterdam, just wandering, There was a bus not to close, and i made eye contact, and continued.. 3 seconds later, i Jumped off the road because the bus, just about hit me.. I started watching the locals to realize that, Pedestarians dont have the right of way, Unlike in BC, were it feels like we do.. and as stated before. sure if they hit you its going to be there fault.. however whos the one that might never walk again.....

My 2 cents.
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:51 PM   #17
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For the life and death thrill of a lifetime...trying to be a pedestrian in Montreal! Much more thrilling than Grand Theft Auto....with REAL dead bodies & crashed cars. A real Montreal driver NEVER yields to a pedestrian.!!!! I can say this truthfully because I lived there for about a year and a half. No right turn on a red, red lights mean that the first 10 cars thru the red are legal and the green light means firewall it in a drag race to the next light. What's a stop sign mean anyway???? If the HA's and the Roc Machine don't blow you up in a fire fight, mamma in a Caravan will flatten you at the next crosswalk!
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Old 02-26-2009, 02:00 PM   #18
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^ i had some yahoo stare me down as he jay walked in front of me, im driving a lifted jeep with bigass tires in a 60 zone, he steps out on the crosswalk even tho its green for me with about 50 mitres to spare. looked like he was all messed up on something and i was sorely tempted to give him a love tap. the jeeps brakes arent that super afterall

but i know in the end its me the law abiding citizen that would lose in a senario like that
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Old 02-26-2009, 02:09 PM   #19
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My friend almost had a perfect road test and he was so pissed. He was deducted points for stopping for a jaywalker. If he did not stop, the jaywalker would have been hit. He was really pissed that the jaywalker cost him a perfect score on the test. But then when he remembered that he passed, he was ok...haha.
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Old 02-26-2009, 02:42 PM   #20
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For the life and death thrill of a lifetime...trying to be a pedestrian in Montreal! Much more thrilling than Grand Theft Auto....with REAL dead bodies & crashed cars. A real Montreal driver NEVER yields to a pedestrian.!!!! I can say this truthfully because I lived there for about a year and a half. No right turn on a red, red lights mean that the first 10 cars thru the red are legal and the green light means firewall it in a drag race to the next light. What's a stop sign mean anyway???? If the HA's and the Roc Machine don't blow you up in a fire fight, mamma in a Caravan will flatten you at the next crosswalk!
Montreal is one of the places in Canada that even in a pack of people crossing the road, I'll still be on the lookout because a delivery truck is probably about to hit you. Scary place. The upside of Montreal is I have only a limited understanding of what the road-raging drivers are yelling at me in French.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:17 PM   #21
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You need a translation for the finger??
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:31 PM   #22
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Small claims court is an avenue that you can use to get the cyclist to pay up.
SkidMark

I would have loved to do that. Unfortunately the cyclist the first time took off when an officer who happened to be close by showed up, The second time, the cyclist wouldnít give me any information, and again rode off where I could not follow in a car when I started calling the police.

Basically both times, they managed to leave before I could get any information.

In the end, I still firmly believe that if bikes are being used on roads, they need to pay insurance and have some type of plate. Certainly it would be MUCH cheaper than driving a car, but at the same time, they can cause a lot of damage and currently most drivers have no recourse if the cyclist simply decides to leave the scene.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:33 PM   #23
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Jaywalking is the dumbest law ever! Its got to have originated in the states because only a dumb american would think of it! Its not a law in any other country so why here?

Last edited by skidmark; 02-26-2009 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:58 PM   #24
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Jaywalking is the dumbest law ever! Its got to have originated in the states because only a dumb american would think of it! Its not a law in any other country so why here?
Obviously you need to go back and read the column again. The offence is in failing to yield to traffic. Walking out in front of a vehicle, forcing it to do something to keep from running you down is the stupid part.

Ever been to Singapore? Try jaywalking there....
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:31 PM   #25
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I remember a story, probably an urban myth, but funny nonetheless... about some poor soul who went to traffic court to fight a parking ticket... won his case, and came out to find another ticket on his car... so he took the ticket with a head of steam and headed back across the street to the courthouse... and was handed a jaywalking ticket...
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