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Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

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Old 02-27-2009, 01:43 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by LowTEC View Post
I wouldn't say the lastest Z06, ZR-1, Caddy's are all that bad. In fact the ZR-1 doing extremely good if not dominates pretty much every performance category out of any mass production car in the world, regardless of price. That sounds really bad doesn't it. Look at Timpo's beloved GTR, now that's a fucked up product right there
According to Nissan, they did not build GT-R for profit...I think it was more like a status thing.

while GM make some impressive cars like Z06, ZR-1 or CTS-V, those vehicles aren't contributing to GM's profit.

Just like you, I have a feeling GM exectives are too occupied with performance vehicles. Seriously, who gives a shit about ZR-1? maybe car enthusiats? ok well that is not much of market right there. How much $ did they make by building ZR-1? I mean how profitable is a product like ZR-1? I bet Toyota and Honda made whole a lot more money by building Civics and Prius.
Also the new Honda Insight will sell like hot cake considering how it is going to be priced. Considering Honda's reputation of building fuel efficient reliable cars.

Those millions of $, not to mention millions of hours of time, that they have spent on Z06, ZR-1 or CTS-V, they should've spent on hybrids. You can blame on UAW as much as you want as we all know the high wage cost and pension plans are dragging the business down, but I think the management has some sort of problem too. They have been saying how they got Chevy Volt Concept, but if they were not occupied with those performance vehicles(including upcoming over 400hp Camaro), they could have released the Volt by now. In fact, that is what Honda and Toyota are doing, they react to customers' demand pretty quickly.
From what I can see, GM can not even keep operating, without government money they could brankrupt like what? tomorrow morning? If they don't have enough money to actually release the vehicle...maybe the Volt might just end up being something similar to the EV-1 electric car.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:15 AM   #27
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Old 02-27-2009, 01:52 PM   #28
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http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/...cks/index.html

Check out the latest consumer report on Auto 2009. GM has won 1 spot out of the 10, and that only received a test score of 74. The testers were probably thinking well we better put at least one American car in there... so Chevrolet Avalanche it is.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:35 PM   #29
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UAW has been with the company for like 50 years or something now, so why is it GM really starting to show its competitive disadvantages in just the last 5 years? Is it really all union's fault or does it have something to do the of the management and their products? I think the latter is more like it.
It takes decades for people to start retiring and start collecting pension. Someone who started working for GM 50 years ago wouldn't start costing the company money until recently when they retire.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Timpo View Post
According to Nissan, they did not build GT-R for profit...I think it was more like a status thing.

while GM make some impressive cars like Z06, ZR-1 or CTS-V, those vehicles aren't contributing to GM's profit.

Just like you, I have a feeling GM exectives are too occupied with performance vehicles. Seriously, who gives a shit about ZR-1? maybe car enthusiats? ok well that is not much of market right there. How much $ did they make by building ZR-1? I mean how profitable is a product like ZR-1? I bet Toyota and Honda made whole a lot more money by building Civics and Prius.
Also the new Honda Insight will sell like hot cake considering how it is going to be priced. Considering Honda's reputation of building fuel efficient reliable cars.

Those millions of $, not to mention millions of hours of time, that they have spent on Z06, ZR-1 or CTS-V, they should've spent on hybrids. You can blame on UAW as much as you want as we all know the high wage cost and pension plans are dragging the business down, but I think the management has some sort of problem too. They have been saying how they got Chevy Volt Concept, but if they were not occupied with those performance vehicles(including upcoming over 400hp Camaro), they could have released the Volt by now. In fact, that is what Honda and Toyota are doing, they react to customers' demand pretty quickly.
From what I can see, GM can not even keep operating, without government money they could brankrupt like what? tomorrow morning? If they don't have enough money to actually release the vehicle...maybe the Volt might just end up being something similar to the EV-1 electric car.
The Z06, ZR-1 and CTS-V are advertisment products to sell more Corvettes and CTS'. I'm sure you know how a halo product works right?

I'm sure the domestics would have more hybrids in their lineup if freakin Honda and Toyota didn't hold patents on everything. Ford didn't even bother to develop hybrid technology because they were afraid of a patent infringment lawsuit. The hybrids that Ford has uses Toyota hybrid technology in a deal that sent Ford's diesel technology over to Toyota. If Honda and Toyota actually gave a crap for the environment, they would allow other manufactures to use their hybrid technology for free rather than license it out. Volvo for example holds the patents on the 3 point seatbelt but they don't charge other car manufacturers for using it because it saves lives. With the environment at stake, don't you think it would benefit everyone if Honda and Toyota shared their technology with everyone?
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:21 PM   #31
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Just a little update on GM:

http://www.dailytech.com/GM+Says+It+...ticle14493.htm

Looks like their days are numbered now unless Government pull something out
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #32
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"Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall and Wuling "

Will someone tell me why the FUCK do you need so many sub-branding to a company.
Can't it be just " GM (cheaper division), vs Cadillac (luxury division)
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #33
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PS, who in the right mind will buy Saab?, Daewoo, Isuzu.,...etc.. Close out those brands already.
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Old 03-05-2009, 03:22 PM   #34
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For the record: I would buy a Malibu if I was looking for a mid-sized family sedan, and would nolonger by a Camry (and I've owned a Camry in the past).
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Old 03-05-2009, 03:26 PM   #35
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Salaries/benefits only make up 10% of GM's costs. GM needs to do a lot of soul searching and start making cuts across the board to trim the fat, they won't get anough from the union alone.

All domestics suffer from unfair taxation. Imports need to be taxed appropriately since these companies avoid many corporate taxes by having their headquarters elsewhere. Otherwise we will have outsourced everything, cause not only is labour cheaper, companies can pay low taxes to produce items elsewhere and minimal sales taxes to sell it here. The North American tax model is broken, we need to start paying the true price of the items we purchase from overseas.
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:41 PM   #36
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Can it really be that bad to just file for bankruptcy It cant be that bad can it?
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:46 PM   #37
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^If Toyota declares bankruptcy in 2012, would you still walk into a Toyota dealership to buy a 2012 Supra?
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:12 PM   #38
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^If Toyota declares bankruptcy in 2012, would you still walk into a Toyota dealership to buy a 2012 Supra?
I know you're making an analogy but it triggered a thought.

About 10 years ago someone once told me that if Toyota were to cease production, but kept paying their employees, they could do so for 11 years. If so, they're well positioned to ride out this storm.
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:45 PM   #39
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Toyota haters make up all sorts of stories.
People are making up "Toyota Bailout" articles.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Talk-o...-Absurd-41636/
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:47 PM   #40
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^If Toyota declares bankruptcy in 2012, would you still walk into a Toyota dealership to buy a 2012 Supra?
if i can get one for $100, then yes i would
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:26 AM   #41
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1. Toyota is doing great Toyota is doing great

2. Toyota doesn't seem to be affected one bit

3. "Toyota is on track to post an operating loss of $4.95 billion for the year ending March 31, its first-ever group-wide operating loss.

The company last week announced a series of measures designed to confront the worst automotive slump in decades.

The measures, which will apply to San Antonio and other U.S. assembly plants and parts operations in Indiana, Alabama, Missouri and West Virginia, include cutting salaried employee bonuses, slashing executive pay by as much as 30 percent and cutting pay for some factory workers by 10 percent by reducing hours."
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lol.. Ford never even heard of Dakar not to mention get somewhere in it.

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Old 03-06-2009, 01:46 PM   #42
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whatever man this is what I am foreseeing:

1. more and more people lose jobs
2. but there will still be a need of vehicles to move people
3. People will continue to drive beat up beaters for the time being, while a small percentage will continue their car buying habit. Second hand trading will boom but new cars, as long as they are still priced the same way, use gas the same way and cost the same to run, will not be seeing many customers.
4. Whoever comes up with something LIKE a Mini of yesteryear with the soul of "a car for the masses" will come out ahead.

In any case I can't see GM coming into this foreseeable decline.... Toyota automotive division may be declining but they are also in many other industries.

And then some obscure brand (I'm thinking about brands like TATA, DACIA and that kind of companies with new management that is more fit to change to the market) that figures this game out will make money quickly instantaneously during this time, and then get bought out by another existing larger firm, in turn raking in profit for that larger firm.

Let's see how the game plays out.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:43 PM   #43
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I make more moola then one of America's hugest corporations

that's going in my autobiography
Are you saying you and your wife are both making $26.74 an hour?
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:44 PM   #44
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I make more moola then one of America's hugest corporations

that's going in my autobiography
Are you implying that you and your wife are both making $26.74 an hour?
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