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The thin line between love and hate
Mature discussion about understanding the opposite sex...

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Old 03-08-2009, 02:30 PM   #1
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when's the best time to ask for a 2nd date? or am i stuck in the friendship zone?

Before I start on this topic i'll explain how i know this girl just so you get why i think i might be stuck in the friendship zone or not... I know this girl from work but she's part time and still goes to school. so i see her couple times a month. When i first met her we talked about school, work, and other stuff. So hours been cut and haven't seen her at all and got another job. After about 2 months i decided wth i'll call her and see if she wants to go out. (why haven't i made my move with her from the start... well there were other girls there but thats not the point of this post, i made sure not to ask her out right away due to the fact of screw ups being made)


Well, after work on Friday i called this girl up if she wanted to go out on sat (yesterday) and i wasn't really thinking that she would say yes. I asked her and said she'll call me back tomorrow. Got a txt late afternoon asking if i'm still down to go out. Kinda caught me off gaurd but of coarse i said yes. We planned it out for dinner and movie. Offered her a ride but she want to skytrain, k fine not gonna bother to push on my offer. So i drove to the restaurant and saw her, first thing she says "hey I haven't see you for awhile!" and so the conversation started and i avoided asking question bout school, work, and music. But school and work where the first question she asked me. so w.e i answered them and went on. so after the dinner, we went to go get tickets for the movie but had 2 hours to spare before the movie started. we chatted and played chess at orange corner... went back to watch the movie. so far, nothing really escalated from our convosations. after the movie we talked about the movie as i drove her home. When i arrived at her house, got out of the car to open the door for her, she got out we hugged and i said "Tonight was really fun, we should go out again soon" after the hug she said "yea" and walked to her house... It was around 2am when the movie finished. When i drove home i was thinking... is there any hope if i asked her out again? or am i stuck in the friendship zone...

So i ask what RS thinks about this and if i should wait till next weekend or call again this weekend? if i do i would ask her out to go snowboarding.... or something else but don;t really know... kinda don't want to do the movie and dinner thing. Please keep this topic clean, serious responses.

thank you

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Old 03-08-2009, 02:37 PM   #2
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I don't see why you would be in the friend zone already since you see each other rarely. Call during the midweek for a date next weekend, don't go snowboarding though, that's a bit much.
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:09 PM   #3
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When i drove home i was thinking... is there any hope if i asked her out again? or am i stuck in the friendship zone...
Ask her yourself dude

Anyways, don't exactly call immediately, but don't let it linger on either. I say a day or 2 or 3 at best. I find that girls are sometimes like sports. When you build on something, you have to run with the momentum and build on it. Sometimes when you build on something good but don't follow through on it until at a later time, it kinda kills your previous progress and you have to build on it from scratch the 2nd and 3rd date around.

Of course, this is said in the assumption that she doesn't like you yet and you're "trying to build a connection"
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:22 PM   #4
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Don't over analyze things,
Keep in mind that she already put other plans aside to go out with you. Which means you're more important than whatever she already had planned.

If you feel like asking her on out on a second date may sound kinda needy, then call her sometime midweek and ask her, "hey, want to go for a coffee or something? I need somebody to chat with and I thought maybe you'd be up for it"; give her a time-constraint (whether it's honest or not), telling her you can't stay for long, and she'll feel more comfortable with coming out.
If things click, then you can tell her that you'll cancel the plans you had later when you gave her the time-constraint and have dinner with her; if not (that is, if she feels uncomfortable with a second date so hastily), then you saved yourself a retreat route.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:32 PM   #5
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Don't over analyze things,
Keep in mind that she already put other plans aside to go out with you. Which means you're more important than whatever she already had planned.

If you feel like asking her on out on a second date may sound kinda needy, then call her sometime midweek and ask her, "hey, want to go for a coffee or something? I need somebody to chat with and I thought maybe you'd be up for it"; give her a time-constraint (whether it's honest or not), telling her you can't stay for long, and she'll feel more comfortable with coming out.
If things click, then you can tell her that you'll cancel the plans you had later when you gave her the time-constraint and have dinner with her; if not (that is, if she feels uncomfortable with a second date so hastily), then you saved yourself a retreat route.
agreeed

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Old 03-08-2009, 04:38 PM   #6
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id take it as a given. like you still ask, but you make it sound as if her saying no was never an option. im assuming you are already calling her regularly since the first date, so next time just invite her out to whatever you want to do. but at this point its all just about personal style and preference. you already have it. she likes you or should woulnt have gone out with you. now you just have to take it.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Don't over analyze things,
Keep in mind that she already put other plans aside to go out with you. Which means you're more important than whatever she already had planned.
I don't think so.

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I asked her and said she'll call me back tomorrow. Got a txt late afternoon asking if i'm still down to go out.
Could be that OP is Plan B. Like she had to get back to him to make sure she had nothing else goin' on. The "You still down..." kinda implies it a little that he was in the backburner.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:24 PM   #8
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I don't think so.



Could be that OP is Plan B. Like she had to get back to him to make sure she had nothing else goin' on. The "You still down..." kinda implies it a little that he was in the backburner.
Hmm...You have a point. I was in a bit of a hurry when I made the first post, so I didn't analyze it that thoroughly, I simply wrote what my first impression was.


Here's my anti-thesis:
That would lead back to my comment about over-analyzing things. If you really believe in what you're doing, then she'll start believing too. That is to say, if you can act like you're the alpha in this situation, then she'll let you take the lead.
If you even remotely doubt yourself or your self-worth, she'll creep in to that crack and tear you apart.

Tables turned, OP: Perhaps you were plan B, but in the end she still went out with you. You may not be #1 on the list, but you're certainly not the last.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:02 PM   #9
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I don't think so.



Could be that OP is Plan B. Like she had to get back to him to make sure she had nothing else goin' on. The "You still down..." kinda implies it a little that he was in the backburner.
maybe she didnt wanna sound so easy..and she wanted to think things through

i mean the OP hasnt talked to her for quite some time now
wouldnt u kinda hesistate if u were the girl?
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:38 PM   #10
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Illuminate: Reason why i think i'm in the friendzone is cause whenever i get to see her i talked to her as much as possible especially when its not busy and when on break.
Yea i think you right snowboarding might be a bit much due to she's a bit broke and she's knew at it but she told me she likes to snowboard. Gotta think of something else to do.

Noir: from the replies i get i'll call her sometime in the midweek and ask her out again on the weekend and yes i'm "trying to build a connection"

Physixx: I like your idea, basically a win win situation. When i talked to her she said that she's kinda busy cause of studying and such and she had to give up some of her after school activities to study so she can go into uni. But then again could be the fact she wanted to see me cause we haven't seen other for awhile <.<
Absolutely gotta be the alpha male. Believe in what i do and hopefully she'll understand too.


Bonethug: Don't really get when you said "her saying no was never an option" To tell you the truth i wouldn't have cared if she said no. Kinda why i was caught off gaurd. I haven't called her regularly. TBH i just sent random txt to her when i'm bored and thats like... maybe once or twice in the past to months? I haven't called her yet. should i be calling her? Thought if i called her regularly it be kinda annoying and needed... But yes i gotta figure out how to take it.

Durran1984: Honestly i really don't know if she wants to play hard to get... The way i look at things, she's still in High school, and i believe studying is her first priority... the way i look it from what she told me.


Thanks for all the replies but yea i'll call her prolly around wenesday or thursday and ask her if she want to go out to get some coffee or have a little chit chat and such. Anyone have any ideas what to do on the second date.. of coarse if she wants to go out and do something and this is after coffee and maybe dinner? Any good convo topics? Kinda burnt down all of it on the first date T.T
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:47 PM   #11
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Bonethug: Don't really get when you said "her saying no was never an option" To tell you the truth i wouldn't have cared if she said no. Kinda why i was caught off gaurd. I haven't called her regularly. TBH i just sent random txt to her when i'm bored and thats like... maybe once or twice in the past to months? I haven't called her yet. should i be calling her? Thought if i called her regularly it be kinda annoying and needed... But yes i gotta figure out how to take it.
by saying she never had an option of saying no i just mean being confident. she already went on the 1st date so im sure she'd be down for another. but yeah, when im trying to date a girl i'll usually call every other day. being a complete stranger, 1st time is kinda awkward wont go more then 30 mins. next call a bit longer, until you guys can talk for hours on end without it being a thing. i dont think it would be annoying or needy if you guys enjoy talking to each other. like noir was saying, you gotta keep the momentum going. but like i said, everyone has their own style. so do whatever your comfortable with.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:48 PM   #12
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Yea i think you right snowboarding might be a bit much due to she's a bit broke and she's knew at it but she told me she likes to snowboard. Gotta think of something else to do.
Some ppl think obstacle, some ppl think opportunity

I'm not saying spoil her. But it's an opportunity to be a gentleman. Plus, if you can teach her how to enjoy snowboarding, you're giving her benefits far more than anything monetary in value.

Depending on how you play it, it could be a good experience for her. (Depends on how good a boarder you are too).
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:08 PM   #13
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Bonethug: personally i'm not much talking on the phone, most i spend on the phone is prolly 15min and done. done it lots of times calling girls but it just ends up with silence and to me gets really awkward cause i don't have really much to say... well i'll try calling either on tomorrow or tuesday and put on a short convo and say have to go somewhere ttyl and such.

Noir: Good point. I myself think i'm a good snowboarder and prolly can teach her. But honestly for a second date... I wouldn't pay full for her, i'd say 50/50 but then again it really depends on my mood and hers of coarse
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:10 AM   #14
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blackjack101, I know this isn't entirely on topic,
but try to steer conversations your own way,
and always know when's the right time to hang up (usually ahead of time).

a couple pointers that personally work for me:
-Don't ask so many questions, nobody likes being interviewed; instead, try making her ask more questions. This is pretty easily done by replying with open ended statements and declarative sentences.
-Again, give yourself the "false" time-constraint I mentioned earlier; I like to say "hey, I can only chat for a bit because something's coming up in about *insert time constraint* minutes." Of course, the amount of time depends on how long you could hold your end of the conversation up. It's always a surefire bet to just retreat once the time constraint is up, but if you really feel the need to keep talking (i.e. if you happen to get her into talking about something emotional, etc.), you could always just tell her, "Hey, I'll give you a call back in a minute or two, I need to attend to my appointment that I was telling you about".
-Slow down the rate in which words come out. Apparently this works miracles, because I've tried it. I used to have a tendency to rush all my words out at the same time, and then get tongue tied over the phone and sounding like a fool. Slowing down and pronouncing each word lets her know that you're confident and not nervous about talking to her. It will also allow you to continue the conversation for a longer duration of time.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:49 AM   #15
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call her in a few days to go out again
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:55 AM   #16
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definitely no snowboarding

go casual places, nothing too romantic since you don't want her to feel pressured and everything
just chat about everyday stuff, big news is always good, and talk about hobbies, but don't be too crazy with the questions

most important is just to be yourself bro, good luck!
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:21 PM   #17
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blackjack101, I know this isn't entirely on topic,
but try to steer conversations your own way,
and always know when's the right time to hang up (usually ahead of time).

a couple pointers that personally work for me:
-Don't ask so many questions, nobody likes being interviewed; instead, try making her ask more questions. This is pretty easily done by replying with open ended statements and declarative sentences.

-Again, give yourself the "false" time-constraint I mentioned earlier; I like to say "hey, I can only chat for a bit because something's coming up in about *insert time constraint* minutes." Of course, the amount of time depends on how long you could hold your end of the conversation up. It's always a surefire bet to just retreat once the time constraint is up, but if you really feel the need to keep talking (i.e. if you happen to get her into talking about something emotional, etc.), you could always just tell her, "Hey, I'll give you a call back in a minute or two, I need to attend to my appointment that I was telling you about".

to me, i like an equal balance between me talking and the guy talking. so i don't suggest making her ask all the questions especially if you are both trying to get to know each other. not only is it a pain to be put on the spot to ask everything, but at the end of the night the girl only knows things about the guy but the guy not knowing anything about the girl. there is nothing wrong with being interviewed--you just gotta know how to word things properly and make the other people comfortable without making it seem like they're being interrogated.

the false retreat is not a bad idea, but if i was asked to hang out and was told the guy had other plans within the next hour then i'd feel like i was a filler. i'm not saying to look like you're devoting ALL of your time to hang out with one girl but i wouldn't openly state you are doing something else before you and her even sit down and talk/whatever you may be doing. if you feel things are slowing down and you think the "meeting" is not going to get better, just say you got other plans (if it's early enough to commit to those plans) or say you got an early day or something.

if i had a great time on a date (and the other party felt that too) i wouldn't mind being called the next day. it's not too soon nor does it look needy, but the fact that 2 people are really excited about each other and wouldn't want to wait any longer to get to know MORE about each other. this however, is a rare case--but it does happen!

i say to give her a call after 2-3 days if you are still unsure as to how she is reacting to the date (whether it's the friendzone for you or what). it doesnt' come off as you being overly eager but more of a 'hey i think you're cool. i wouldn't mind hanging out again since i had a great time'

as for possible future dates for now, i say to keep it simple. dinners, lunches, movies, dessert, coffee are all great ideas. i think just do whatever you feel comfortable with and without it stressing you out too much. you are overanalyzing everything that's happening thus far which will eventually just take over your mind. think of the 2 of you spending time together as friends and not potential lovers (even though you do like her). just 2 people getting to know each other and hanging out. it takes the pressure off of you and if things don't go the way you want it to be, you won't be super hurt by it in the end because you kept this "relationship" with an open mind as she's just a friend.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:34 PM   #18
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you should make a move on her. just so she knows you arent trying to be her friend.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Physixx View Post
blackjack101, I know this isn't entirely on topic,
but try to steer conversations your own way,
and always know when's the right time to hang up (usually ahead of time).

a couple pointers that personally work for me:
-Don't ask so many questions, nobody likes being interviewed; instead, try making her ask more questions. This is pretty easily done by replying with open ended statements and declarative sentences.
-Again, give yourself the "false" time-constraint I mentioned earlier; I like to say "hey, I can only chat for a bit because something's coming up in about *insert time constraint* minutes." Of course, the amount of time depends on how long you could hold your end of the conversation up. It's always a surefire bet to just retreat once the time constraint is up, but if you really feel the need to keep talking (i.e. if you happen to get her into talking about something emotional, etc.), you could always just tell her, "Hey, I'll give you a call back in a minute or two, I need to attend to my appointment that I was telling you about".
-Slow down the rate in which words come out. Apparently this works miracles, because I've tried it. I used to have a tendency to rush all my words out at the same time, and then get tongue tied over the phone and sounding like a fool. Slowing down and pronouncing each word lets her know that you're confident and not nervous about talking to her. It will also allow you to continue the conversation for a longer duration of time.
This guy is dead on.
Id take his advice.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:16 PM   #20
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to me, i like an equal balance between me talking and the guy talking. so i don't suggest making her ask all the questions especially if you are both trying to get to know each other. not only is it a pain to be put on the spot to ask everything, but at the end of the night the girl only knows things about the guy but the guy not knowing anything about the girl. there is nothing wrong with being interviewed--you just gotta know how to word things properly and make the other people comfortable without making it seem like they're being interrogated.
Ahh, that was my bad again. What I had meant to express in my post was to make her talk more in comparison to what USUALLY happens--which is the guy asking all the questions and the girl replying half-assedly.

But yeah, like miss_crayon said, 50-50 is not a bad idea. I just posted the above because I see the above happen too many times. The guy would ask a question, she'd reply, and her reply would make him ask another related question--it's just as annoying to hear from a third person point of view.
Besides, if you already know everything there is to know about her, you'd have a hard time on the date coming up with new things to say.


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Originally Posted by miss_crayon View Post
the false retreat is not a bad idea, but if i was asked to hang out and was told the guy had other plans within the next hour then i'd feel like i was a filler. i'm not saying to look like you're devoting ALL of your time to hang out with one girl but i wouldn't openly state you are doing something else before you and her even sit down and talk/whatever you may be doing. if you feel things are slowing down and you think the "meeting" is not going to get better, just say you got other plans (if it's early enough to commit to those plans) or say you got an early day or something.
The purpose of my "false-retreat" as I so aptly put it, is to let her know that you're not needy.
All the girls I know absolutely hate needy guys--and even if it's something a female finds attractive in a male, it gets old pretty quickly. The same is true the other way around.
There's nothing wrong with being a "filler", what I mean to achieve by giving you the time constraint is to say:
(on the phone) "hey, I'm waiting for an important call right now, but in the meanwhile, I thought maybe I'd call you up and check on how you're doing".
or (in person) "hey I have some important business that I absolutely must attend to tonight, but I thought I'd make the time to meet up with you anyways".




Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_crayon View Post
as for possible future dates for now, i say to keep it simple. dinners, lunches, movies, dessert, coffee are all great ideas. i think just do whatever you feel comfortable with and without it stressing you out too much. you are overanalyzing everything that's happening thus far which will eventually just take over your mind. think of the 2 of you spending time together as friends and not potential lovers (even though you do like her). just 2 people getting to know each other and hanging out. it takes the pressure off of you and if things don't go the way you want it to be, you won't be super hurt by it in the end because you kept this "relationship" with an open mind as she's just a friend.
and +1
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:38 PM   #21
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physixx: wow those are really awesome tips. I definetly understand what you mean hang up ahead of time. It really depends on the girl, some girls like needy guys... some like to have space and a guy that knows when to call and what to say or some shit like that lol.

Hotjoint, Grandmaster tse: Yea i'll call her tomorrow and see how things go. Hmmm aight I'll just do something more reasonable.

Bonethug: hmmm doesn't it matter of the atmosphere and the mood? Or should i just go at it at random... Usually people say i'm pretty random but i don't want it to go really awkward and goes down the drain. But if we were to go out on a 2nd date then i'll def try

Miss crayon: when i was haveing a conversation with her I kinda felt not comfortable asking a lot of question cause i thought it would get kinda annoying and put her on the spot. But what i recall is we had a pretty good conversation that she would ask question and tell past events and such. I'm not sure if she had a good time i hope she did. I tried calling her today but didn't pick up =\ i didn't leave a msg so i thought wth I'll just try and call again tomorrow. Most likely I am over analyzing a bit but really in the past dates i haven't been really successful so thats why I came on to rs to ask for advice and see of what RS thinks. I know I have no problem asking ladies out for a date but problem is, i can't really do a proper closing... get what i mean its like a show with an awesome opening and everything is nice and smooth but have a shitty ending... thats kinda how i am.. Both you and physixx give great advice and i'll def be using it, especially for future dates


LC21: i agree lol XD


Edit: i just got a call back lol. convo didn't last long cause i didin't have much to say but i ended just on time soooo gonna call her back on wenesday and ask if she wants to go out again. but use physixx advice using the time contraint.

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Old 03-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #22
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i say call her the day after tomorrow
if she doesn't pick up then, leave a msg and let her come to you. you would have made the effort twice by then so the ball is in her court. if she doesn't call you back or try to get a hold of you after then consider it a done deal and move on.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:14 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Physixx View Post
blackjack101, I know this isn't entirely on topic,
but try to steer conversations your own way,
and always know when's the right time to hang up (usually ahead of time).

a couple pointers that personally work for me:
-Don't ask so many questions, nobody likes being interviewed; instead, try making her ask more questions. This is pretty easily done by replying with open ended statements and declarative sentences.
-Again, give yourself the "false" time-constraint I mentioned earlier; I like to say "hey, I can only chat for a bit because something's coming up in about *insert time constraint* minutes." Of course, the amount of time depends on how long you could hold your end of the conversation up. It's always a surefire bet to just retreat once the time constraint is up, but if you really feel the need to keep talking (i.e. if you happen to get her into talking about something emotional, etc.), you could always just tell her, "Hey, I'll give you a call back in a minute or two, I need to attend to my appointment that I was telling you about".
-Slow down the rate in which words come out. Apparently this works miracles, because I've tried it. I used to have a tendency to rush all my words out at the same time, and then get tongue tied over the phone and sounding like a fool. Slowing down and pronouncing each word lets her know that you're confident and not nervous about talking to her. It will also allow you to continue the conversation for a longer duration of time.
mystery method nicee
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:51 AM   #24
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stuff to talk about: tell her your stories. you know, like last weekend when your buddy slipped and fell off a cliff. and he took your favorite thermos with him, the douche. or last winter when you slid through an intersection and pwned a bus full of kids. good way to get to know each other.

running out of things to talk about on the phone: when it's reached a peak, abruptly say "oh hey i gotta go, i'll ttyl." and just hang up. leave 'em hanging haha.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Durrann1984 View Post
mystery method nicee


if you're talking about the time-constraint,
it's not Mystery Method entirely, even though he coined it first.
I learned from T.Durden.
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