Alright alright, I know it wasnt an inside job but I stlll do find it weird that the US cares more about attacking a country that didnt even start the damn war. Maybe I missed something or have forgotten everything in the past 8 years.

the Taliban didnt have anything to do with 9/11, Zale (it is presumably BinLaden and his Saudi henchmen who did it)

they just weren't willing to face the reprecussions of giving up a national hero to the USA


Hot Karl... its not like theres any evidence that Osama is responsible for 9/11 other than his videos of "death to america" he was just blamed for it and everyone said "ok, its him"

Totally off topic...
how do they take passport photos? lol

Canadians die because the Americans have to sustain their military employment, and have a stronghold on the oil. Sadly neither Canadian nor Americans cares much for the well being of these people.

no there afghani women!

The laws are only relative to how the people Interpret those laws.

Clearly radical islamic factions would say that what Adon posted is totally blasphemous, and that the islamic law states that it is their right to oppress women.

I can't wait to hear what you have to say on the punishment for apostasy from Islam!

You can't leave.

theres nothing in the Quaran that says you can't leave the faith

its the radical clerics that make up rules and twist verses to say you cant and that its illegal, but even reading the verses that the radicals indicate... i cant imagine how it can be twisted into saying you can't leave

but then i cant read arabic, and to trust a translation may result in inaccuracies

"They wish that you reject faith as they have done, so that you all become the same. So take not protectors/friends from them till they emigrate in the way of God. But if they turn away, seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither protectors/friends from them nor helpers. (4:88-89)"


I'm sure other verses contradict this statement, as in most religions.


Religion = mind virus.


Right now we have places on earth of great knowledge and advancement, such as the National Ignition Facility:

https://lasers.llnl.gov/

This doesn't come from minds that are clouded full of "Praise Jebus" and "Allah Snackbar"

Religion was a stepping stone for humans to use to advance ourselves, it's high time we cast off the shackles of the stone age. One look at Afghanistan(or the crusades, or the inquisition) shows you what stone age religion does to human beings.


Fuck it, I can't even post anymore about this shit. Invisible sky daddies commanding people to do shit is just so beyond retarded, I feel like punching myself in the balls until I shit my computer chair.

From what i read about that verse is it was speaking of a particular group and it only allowed them to *arabic word* (which can be translated into fight or kill) if this group sought war against islam, if they did not they weren't to be touched

but your right supposeddly theres a number of verses about this that contradict each other if you just look at the verse alone and not its surrounding verses that speak to the same thing

but i dont know enough about it to argue either way.... just pointing out that it seems mainly how its interpreted and twisted

THANK YOU Jason00S2000

someone with some fucking common sense on this board!

say what? you can't wait for my answer to the question you asked me ? well fck do you even deserve an answer after weaseling out of a response to my first reply ?
You realized you couldn't argue back solid facts that I brought and you went right at it with another religious question you already knew the answer too. Yes leaving the religion can result in your ass getting stoned to death, what's your point? is that what this thread is about ?

My issue with you is that you're an arrogant tool who can't differentiate between fanatics and religion.... and thats all fine and dandy, but when you start yappin your bullshit trying to pass them off as fact, is when I'll be there to pick bones with you.

so I answered your question, now where the fck does that leave us ?
I thought your original point you were trying to make was to show how "stone age" Muslims just are with their barbaric laws... but I came through the door, said it ain't so... threw some muthafuckin factual facts on the table, made you shut the fuck up for a second and wanna change the subject..

you wanna talk about something else.. go head make another thread, I'll might see you there.

I lived alongside Canadian peacekeepers myself for a time and I'm a Canadian as well, so yes it pisses me the fuck off to know how many Canadian soldiers died for the situation to remain almost the same as before in Afghanistan, almost nothing was accomplished except deaths of thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians. I can understand soldiers dying because that's in their job description as a possible risk, but I can't stand knowing they died for nothing.

but to tell you the truth, what the fuck was Canada and America thinking in the first place going against the Taliban, these guys are the same dudes that defeated the Soviet fuckin Union !!
and the Soviets fought without following any international laws, they were free to slaughter and do what they wanted and they still got their ass kicked!

just ask John Rambo, he was there...

http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/rambo/rambo3.gif

it's obvious you think religion is a thing of the past by your post, specifically this strict sharia law.

let me just throw you a quick curveball, let's say that someone close to you was violently ravaged and killed and the person responsible was arrested and charged with the crime.

Would you be fine with Western Law and it's due process that would probably give the person guilty 30 years with parole eligibility within 20 on good behaviour ....

or would you wanna Sharia law that bastard, because according to that law, it's within your hands and up to the family members what punishment the guilty is to receive. You can choose the guilty's death, or you can choose lifetime jail, it's all up to you. But the reward for forgiveness and allowing the person to live as opposed to choosing death for him carries great reward in God's eyes according to their beliefs.

so just by that little example you might be able to get a glimpse of the intricacies of their laws and customs, and you'd find out they make a lotta sense. But yea they are still very strict I agree with you on that.

matter a fact I read an article the other month where a Canadian soldier was killed in Afghanistan. The person who killed her was sentenced to death according to their law, and the brother of the soldier told the local media said he was glad that the trial took place over there because he received the right punishment.

Canada, allies demand answers over Afghan rape law
 

STRASBOURG, France — Canada joined allies Friday in putting new pressure on Afghanistan's president to explain a proposed law which, according to media reports, would legally allow men to rape their wives.

Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said the "presumed" law — he said officials have been unable to confirm the proposed law's actual status — is "extremely alarming" for Canada and its allies.

"I'm calling for President (Hamid) Karzai, in the first opportunity, to be able to come forward and give the explanations regarding this presumed piece of legislation," Cannon told reporters after arriving at the leaders' summit of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Other senior government officials in the NATO alliance also expressed outrage at the law, which would reportedly subjugate Afghan women to their husbands sexually and financially.

"We are there to defend universal values and when I see, at the moment, a law threatening to come into effect which fundamentally violates women's rights and human rights, that worries me," NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told BBC.

"I have a problem to explain and President Karzai knows this, because I discussed it with him. I have a problem to explain to a critical public audience in Europe, be it the U.K. or elsewhere, why I'm sending the guys to the Hindu Kush."

French Human Rights Minister Rama Yade said the law "recalls the darkest hours of Afghanistan's history."

Cannon told journalists Friday he spoke to two other allies earlier this week who are also deeply worried about the law. Canada and other western allies have cited the defence of women's rights, as well as the fight against terrorism, as the twin public relations pillars to justify the rising death toll and huge costs of the Afghanistan war.

Women were prohibited from working and girls were denied schooling during the Taliban era before the U.S. helped overthrow the oppressive regime following the 9/11 terrorism attacks in New York and Washington.

Cannon said he called the legislation "presumed" because he spoke to two Afghan cabinet ministers who said they knew nothing about it. Canadian diplomats have also been unable to determine the actual status of the bill.

"There doesn't seem to be a confirmation as to whether or not this is actually a piece of legislation which was adopted in the legitimate way and manner in the (legislature) in Kabul."

Afghanistan's envoy to Canada urged patience Friday, saying his government remains committed to the democratic principles, including the rights of women.

Ambassador Omar Samad noted that some female Afghan MPs have reportedly said the law is not as bad as has been assumed and told Canwest News Service that "it's a question of which draft has been seen."

It appears the United Nations women's agency in Kabul showed a version of the law to journalists there, but it is not clear if that is the bill that might become the new law, he said.

Meanwhile, a Canadian government official confirmed Friday that local Afghan authorities are launching a controversial "outreach" program in Kandahar province, where Canada's 2,800 troops are headquartered.

"We are supportive of programs that aim to further improve sub-national governance across the province," said Afghanistan Task Force deputy director Laurent Morel-a-l'Huissier.

A group of international aid agencies issued a report earlier Friday criticizing Canada, the U.S. and the United Kingdom for supporting a program that jeopardizes the lives of Afghan civilians.

The Afghan Social Outreach Program, approved by Afghan government authorities last September, is intended to create district councils in several provinces, including Kandahar, in order to improve communication with ordinary Afghans and provide information on insurgent activities.

Council appointees draw government salaries and are appointed by senior Afghan government officials, leading to likely accusations of patronage and potential inter-tribal tensions if there are ethnic imbalances on councils, the critics argued in Friday's report.

The councils could also be infiltrated by the rebels, the authors noted, adding that an average of three Afghans suspected of co-operating with government or allied authorities are summarily executed by insurgents every four days.

"In this environment these programs put Afghans at even greater risk," CARE Afghanistan spokesman Lex Kassenberg said in a news release.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Can...148/story.html

Adon >>>>>> Jason00S2000

women have rights?

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is not entirely true, the Afghan resistance against the Soviets was a combination of multiple groups one of them being the Taliban. Once the Soviets were gone, those groups decided to duke it out between each other to take control of Afghanistan and the Taliban eventually became the 'winner' if you can really call it that..

^ that's true as well, there was other groups there and yea you're right, the Taliban was the majority. They got training from some of the best American operatives that the US had to offer, received millions upon millions of dollars from the CIA, not to mention all the weapons they got as well.

Once the CIA gave them heat seeking rocket launchers though, it was game over for the Soviets, the launchers pretty much won them the war as it took away air superiority the Soviets had, dozens of Soviet choppers were getting blown down every day.

Now what they did is they took all that training they received from the CIA and are applying it against everything and everyone in their region.

You made a post about how under Islam women were supposed to be respected, and had these "rights" given to them under Islam.

What you state is only your interpretation of the Qur'an, and is obviously, painfully obvious, to other people that if you look around the world at Islamic countries these laws are not interpreted as you say.




The point is, that if you claim your above list to be true and accurate, you also have to claim the above to be accurate as well. This means that eventually through reproduction, the entire world would become Islamic without anyone being allowed to ever leave Islam.

Islam is as totalitarian as it gets. All aspects of living are controlled and free thought(leaving Islam)is discouraged by punishment of death.


What you do not understand Adon, is that under certain religions, fundamentalism is not only encouraged, but is actively being pushed world-wide by hardliners in one certain country. The extremist books and speaches broadcast to mosques around the world come, typically, from one country.

Westborough baptist church has about 80 members and are thought of by other christians as an embarressment. They have been protested and mob-attacked by other Christians.

Many of the extremist imams in the UK have never been protested. 0. Remember "Bomb, bomb Denmark" and signs like "Behead those who insult Islam"?

No muslims had any sort of counter-protest, no real anti-fundamentalist push in the UK.


On the road to a global caliphate?


Islam, by the very nature of the religion, stifles technology. After the golden age of Islamic science(Algebra, Alchemy, and others)math was deemed to be the work of the devil. Look at the technology coming out of the arabic middle east for an example of how much religion kills progress.


It's not changing the subject when I point out that you can't pick and choose laws and say your system is superior. The Islamic system is a utopia on paper, but in practice, leads to a totalitarian state(Saudi Arabia)with no free throught and very little human progress.

the problem here is your talking about the arab islamic world... but the majority of muslims lies in Indonesia and CHINA (with 10% of its population)
your also forgetting places like Turkey, Pakistan and even Iran.. sure radical elements exist in these 3 countries as they do everywhere but not in the whole or to the extreme as you paint your description.


as stated before it doesn't say death is a punishment, ur quote was a partial quote identifying a group of peoples from ancient times identified as the hypocrites, and it did not dictate their death the use of an arabic word which can be translated as "to fight" or "to slaughter" was used but in the same section it said to battle the hypocrites was only sanctioned if they sought to fight/attack islam; it does not allow for murder of any who sought to leave the faith

granted its being misused by radicals in the arab world, but also not in its entirety


all religions/empires faced an era of attacking knowledge.. but you can't mark the arab world today because of what was done all those centuries ago.. you have to look at history and see how that area of the world, once powerful, was sacked and stifled by occupying forces..etc etc there are sooo many factors as to why the area isn't as advanced as the rest of the globe to consider other than boldly blaming 1 factor alone (having said that the quaran is filled with science). if you really want to look into technology look at Iran who even though (in terms of history) recently underwent a total reconstruction is quite advanced in technology, etc etc... you seem to be painting Islam as being the only culprit of having once stifled technology but islam was not the cause of it; it was as with Christianity those in power wanting to assert their hold on the populace and finding an easily pliable excuse which would garner them support


you can't denigrate the philosphy because of a localized(certain leaderships of the middle-east) mis-use of it. (it also depends on which side of the coin your on the actions of those you criticize isn't necessarily wrong, its only so from certain perspectives)





anyway these arguments you have over the subject always seem to go back and forth, recycling arguments ignoring of anything said and in the end you remain in your belief and the otherside remains in theirs so there's no real need to continue this further.. you'll continue being a hate-filled egotistic prejudicial racist? and the other side will continue being the god fearing book-burning witch hunting hippy-types?

Perhaps, perhaps not. Pray tell why the military in Turkey is required to keep the country secular?


Again, there is evidence of the contrary:

Islamic law (shariah, based on hadiths) says you are to be executed. Usually you're given 3 days to return to Islam. Execution for apostasy is approved by all four Sunni as well as Shia madhabs (schools of law), but there are hadiths which say apostates weren't killed. So the hadiths contradict themselves. But the madhabs have chosen death for apostasy as the appropriate hadiths to trust, so it's applied in countries like Saudi Arabia.


I would like to know if there have been any executions for apostaphy in Saudi Arabia?


I'd say half of the reason why christianity in the west is dropping fast is because half of the people are becoming more and more intelligent and aware. The other half of the reason is because people are being rasied by less and less moral individuals who choose to raise them on MTV and garbage culture.

Remember, there are no gays in Iran.

( Because they hang them all! )

You're right, all religions have held back science, but Islam continues to hold that part of the world back while the West has been enlightened for awhile now. We need to be aware that there are forces at work trying to allow creationism to be taught along side evolution. Teaching our children that magic happens is dangerous for the human mind.



Absolutely you can denigrate a philosophy because of a localized misuse.

That's why when I post this image:

http://prostitution.procon.org/files...mages/nazi.jpg

Most people who view it will have a preconceived notion of what Nazi is, and stands for.


Think I could walk around with that on a t-shirt and not have people comment? With your logic, people should stop being Naziphobic and learn that just because Nazism was bad in WW2 Germany doesn't mean that Nazism in Canada would be the same philosophy.

The argument could be made that a Canadian person's interpretation of "mein kampf" would be more moderate than the pre-WW2 German interpretation

The argument can also be made that a Canadian person's interpretation of the qur'an would be more moderate than the modern Saudi Arabian person's interpretation.

I can be friends with anyone of any colour, it's people's cultures that clash with mine. I am a pro-freedom dick who believes in personal choices and freedoms above all else. This is why religion and I clash so much, as I see religion as being anti-freedom and anti-progress.

Are there any spoils of war that Canada gets for fighting in this war?

Or is this just preventive measures?