Critical mass

[rslater]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Stop being a DQ.

Think of the number of cars stopped in gridlock cause of a rush hour accident on a bridge. Then think of your same scenario. Then then of how many times there's gridlock and how many times critical mass happens.

There's lots of people who miss things cause of rush hour gridlock.

I'm unsure if you understand the argument you just made. An accident during rush hour isn't remotely close the critical mass as the cause of both are completely different. My argument is that critical mass PURPOSLEY creates this gridlock, while an accident isn't meant to purposely create this havoc. I'm simply saying that critical mass people do not actually realize their actions. What about parents going to pick their kids up from daycare? From school? What about having to get home to take meds? An accident will delay them in the same way as critical mass, but this group of bike riders is PURPOSELY creating the delay. What would you say if an ambulance is delayed getting over the lions gate bridge to get to a friend of yours? You'd be pissed if it was an accident, but how mad would you be if it was caused by 2000 people illegally causing this delay? Now your going to say people will move over for an amublance, but try moving 2000 people followed by 100's of cars blocking both lanes.

[Death2Theft]

Maj buddy have u gotten to fat and lazy in your plush car to go freeriding nowadays?

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

This is the reasons vancouverites are the biggest pussies. Granted I think critical mass is fucking dumb, because they are doing it to be stupid. If they were all going to work or something then I wouldnt mind.

I've been doing it for 8 years now. I've even ridden in the snow, when I had to get to work. You just got to layer up.

[jeffh]

i dont like smelly homeless people, so my protest is going to be to go downtown in Van with a firehose full of bleach and Amonia and hose all the greasy fuckers down, at the end of the day, getting Gassed is in their best interest, so that should be cool right?


people that take advantage of the lenience of other people piss me off, they wouldnt pull this shit in Compton, they are just counting on everyone else obeying the very rules that they are flaunting

[EuroTRASH]

anyone wanna chip in for a long piece of steel cable? we can just each take an end and start threading it through bike wheels before the start off....steel cable because they couldn't just whip out a knife and cut it

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

Maj buddy have u gotten to fat and lazy in your plush car to go freeriding nowadays?

yes. That's why I'm buying a road bike or another sasquatch to ride to work.

I'm buying my 125cc or my 250r next week though :O

[ctsport]

Originally Posted by MWR34

what about the methane gas from the crack of those hippies asses. not to mention the stank bike sweat that emits x 500. thats more a HAZMAT situation over global warming.

Revscene at it's finest!

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by rslater

I'm unsure if you understand the argument you just made. An accident during rush hour isn't remotely close the critical mass as the cause of both are completely different. My argument is that critical mass PURPOSLEY creates this gridlock, while an accident isn't meant to purposely create this havoc. I'm simply saying that critical mass people do not actually realize their actions. What about parents going to pick their kids up from daycare? From school? What about having to get home to take meds? An accident will delay them in the same way as critical mass, but this group of bike riders is PURPOSELY creating the delay. What would you say if an ambulance is delayed getting over the lions gate bridge to get to a friend of yours? You'd be pissed if it was an accident, but how mad would you be if it was caused by 2000 people illegally causing this delay? Now your going to say people will move over for an amublance, but try moving 2000 people followed by 100's of cars blocking both lanes.

First let me say I don't agree with critical mass either, I think its mostly bandwagoners not actually interested in the movement, yet I do agree with the cause.

---

I've heard the "purposely" argument before, and its not valid.

Accidents are a fact of life with cars, they are going to happen and clog rush hour traffic. They happen cause we drive. This may not be "purposely" yet its "causality", so to prevent possible gridlock obstructing ambulances, we should all not drive, since driving causes accidents, that cause gridlock.

- Bikes can move out of the way easy than clearing an accident.
- If cars left the room infront of them they are supposed to (rather than stop right up on the bumper of the car infront), an ambulance getting through would be easy cause all cars would have room to move to the side.
- If this city didn't rely on cars so much, the gridlock wouldn't be so bad when there is an accident, or side streets would be available to ambulances rather than clogged with parked cars.

Lets stop focusing on critical mass being illegal, we're all not saints with our driving behaviour.

Originally Posted by Graeme S

How many lawyers who live in kits would want to bike to work even if they had a bike lane? How many UBC students would bike daily? It takes longer than bussing, you end up sweaty and dirty.

Yes, it's cleaner. Yes, it's good exercise. But you know what? I live in North Burnaby, and I work downtown. 15km either way. My bus commute is 20 minutes; it would take at least twice that to bike, and it's uphill halfway regardless of the direction I travel in.

Critical mass isn't about biking, its anti-car. So good for you to take the bus.

I used to meet with the military for my job, requiring dress clothes. I left a change of clothes at work and used the showers to get ready if I rode in.

All your arguments are about convenience, the very thing you're mad at that critical mass takes away from you. The irony eh?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by taylor192

First let me say I don't agree with critical mass either, I think its mostly bandwagoners not actually interested in the movement, yet I do agree with the cause.

I don't think anyone here is arguing against the cause... only against the wackos who take things too far, to the point it's not even about the cause anymore, but simply about making a scene. ie. Critical Mass.

I've heard the "purposely" argument before, and its not valid.

Accidents are a fact of life with cars, they are going to happen and clog rush hour traffic. They happen cause we drive. This may not be "purposely" yet its "causality", so to prevent possible gridlock obstructing ambulances, we should all not drive, since driving causes accidents, that cause gridlock.

- Bikes can move out of the way easy than clearing an accident.
- If cars left the room infront of them they are supposed to (rather than stop right up on the bumper of the car infront), an ambulance getting through would be easy cause all cars would have room to move to the side.
- If this city didn't rely on cars so much, the gridlock wouldn't be so bad when there is an accident, or side streets would be available to ambulances rather than clogged with parked cars.

Lets stop focusing on critical mass being illegal, we're all not saints with our driving behaviour.

But that's the point: if everyone followed the rules, there wouldn't be a problem. Critical Mass are intentionally and openly flaunting the rules for the express purpose of CREATING a problem.


At best, that's mischief. At worst, it's reckless endangerment.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Soundy

But that's the point: if everyone followed the rules, there wouldn't be a problem. Critical Mass are intentionally and openly flaunting the rules for the express purpose of CREATING a problem.

At best, that's mischief. At worst, it's reckless endangerment.

Having moved here from Ottawa my skin is a little thicker. Its not mischief or reckless endangerment, its just a protest.

Downtown Ottawa becomes a mess during protests, yet its their right to protest, and as long as they are mostly within the law (despite the complaints here, critical mass is mostly legal) it'll be hard to charge the few protesters acting outside the law.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Having moved here from Ottawa my skin is a little thicker. Its not mischief or reckless endangerment, its just a protest.

If someone dies due to someone else's willful "civil disobedience", just watch how quickly it becomes reckless endangerment.

Vancouver has its fair share of protests too - legitimate ones don't go out of their way to inconvenience the lives of hundreds or thousands of other citizens.

Downtown Ottawa becomes a mess during protests, yet its their right to protest, and as long as they are mostly within the law (despite the complaints here, critical mass is mostly legal) it'll be hard to charge the few protesters acting outside the law.

I dunno how things are in the armpit of the nation, but here in Lotusland, obstructing traffic IS against the law. Cyclists are required to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Soundy

If someone dies due to someone else's willful "civil disobedience", just watch how quickly it becomes reckless endangerment.

Critical mass has been going on for how long?
This is LotusLand cause you're dreaming if you think this will ever happen.

Originally Posted by Soundy

Vancouver has its fair share of protests too - legitimate ones don't go out of their way to inconvenience the lives of hundreds or thousands of other citizens.

That's why Vancouver isn't the political capitol of Canada, too many lazy lefties still dreaming.

Originally Posted by Soundy

I dunno how things are in the armpit of the nation, but here in Lotusland, obstructing traffic IS against the law. Cyclists are required to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.

You might want to stop dreaming and read your own laws.

Slow driving

145 (1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle at so slow a speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

(2) If the driver of a motor vehicle is driving at so slow a speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, a peace officer may require the driver to increase his or her speed, or to remove the motor vehicle from the roadway to the nearest suitable place and to refrain from causing or allowing the motor vehicle to move from that place until directed to do so by a peace officer.

Considering this has been happening for years and the police have not stopped it, there's your answer to what the peace officer may require.

So you can continue with the DQ arguments about "wait till someone dies" and I'll post the stats of how many deaths cars cause vs bicycles.

[LethalLaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiyBVytRQ

[Presto]

A bicycle is not a motor vehicle, though.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Considering this has been happening for years and the police have not stopped it, there's your answer to what the peace officer may require.

They don't arrest the hundreds of people who gather to smoke up in front of the Art Gallery every April 20th either... doesn't mean it's not still illegal.

THAT, by contrast, is a peaceful protest that doesn't intentionally interfere with other people's daily lives.

[+Kardboard+]

420 doesn't intentially interfere, but it unintentionally does, if I recall last Monday properly. -_-

[Soundy]

^Well put it this way: they don't go out there with the intention of disrupting the lives of everyone they disagree with.

[jeffh]

we need more people like that nypd cop. stop imposing your retarded beliefs on regular people living their lives, you dont like progress? move the fuck out of the city, i hear Barrier BC is looking for new fuckheads

[quasi]

Wheres one of those suicide bombers when you need em?

[carisear]

so i don't know what context that video is in, but it's OBVIOUS that that cyclist was singled out, and the cops were looking for him. most likely he deserved it (and not just being for a useless critical mass participant.)

[B-DiZzLe]

paintball practice anyone?

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Soundy

^Well put it this way: they don't go out there with the intention of disrupting the lives of everyone they disagree with.

The same used to be said of gays, women and black people. If only they didn't marry, vote and still picked cotton, damn it for bothering us with their problems.

Originally Posted by carisear

so i don't know what context that video is in, but it's OBVIOUS that that cyclist was singled out, and the cops were looking for him. most likely he deserved it (and not just being for a useless critical mass participant.)

In case any of the ignorant people in this thread want to try sometime similar, here's the result:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ng-of-cyclist/

I wouldn't want to be that officer.

[wahyinghung]

Originally Posted by BlackV62K2

I think it's once a month on a random Friday???

*Note to self*: avoid Downtown on rush hours during Friday's @ all cost .........

[3seriesBeeM]

I hate those god damn tree hugging hippies. All they do is block traffic and piss people off i would buy a hummer and drive around every where just to spite the people from critical mass. They are not gonna change anything by pissing people off. If they want to make a difference do some useful protesting that people will listen to and get media coverage. look at how al gore works and people listen they are both promoting the same message except people actually listen to al gore

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by taylor192

The same used to be said of gays, women and black people. If only they didn't marry, vote and still picked cotton, damn it for bothering us with their problems.

There's a bit of a difference between civil rights, and the absurd notion that you can shove your bike down everyone else's throats...

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Soundy

There's a bit of a difference between civil rights, and the absurd notion that you can shove your bike down everyone else's throats...

100 years ago there wasn't much of a difference. Those damn black people taking up room on my bus. Why don't they get their own bus? Drive on their own streets? Why are they taking up my valuable space and causing me to have to miss a crowded bus? Don't you know my time is important.

Yes, now I'm being the DQ. Funny how you don't think its a valid argument either.

Its called progress, and a lot of it happened due to protest.