20/20 bashes canadian health care system

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by achiam

The system of everyone getting free coverage from taxes/premiums does not work because the number of sick/ill people (baby boomer generation) is increasing much faster than the number of new taxpayers (young generation that does not get ill/require extended care).

Our society is a giant PONZI scheme about to fold. When health care/pensions were introduced the average age was much lower, the benefits much fewer, and 4 people paid into the system to support 1 not paying.

Now the benefits are more, people are living longer, and 2 people are paying to support 1 not paying. In 20 years it'll be closer to 1 supporting 1.

Originally Posted by achiam

Coming from someone in healthcare, I also strongly believe that equal premium/taxes makes absolutely no sense. I, and many of my friends back home in Vancouver have worked in the health industry for many years. There is no doubt that the majority of the revenue goes to smokers and obese people.

Please don't spread personal opinion, post facts.

I'll find the study later, yet a healthy person costs the system more than an unhealthy person. Why? Cause unhealthy people die younger, while healthy people live until old age and require magnitudes more in care. It just doesn't appear that way cause treatment for unhealthy people is so expensive all at once.

[hung_low]

the americans are just jealous of our health care system.

[91civicZC]

I want to know how many people here who are supporting the “American system” have actually had to use it.

I lived there and used it for 4 years, it sucks. If you havent had to use it, you don’t know.

Our medical system is in trouble, only because it does not look sustainable in the long run. Moving to an American system would be a huge mistake. Keep the current system, and look into other ways of making it sustainable. My first thought is better and more responsible spending by our own governments (Fast ferries? Olympic Village?), would help us to funnel more money into our heath care system both here in BC and Canada wide.

Our system is NOT free, its covered in our taxes. Better spending of the money we already pay to the government would be a HUGE step forward in saving and improving our current medical system. Health care should be for everyone, not just the rich.

[Tapioca]

In order to make the system more sustainable, people need to stop abusing the system. Taylor192 is right - people should stop using the ER for every little nagging thing.

Health care is comprehensive - there needs to be an equal amount of attention paid to wellness, healthy living, and life-jeopardizing situations. Our system is equipped to deal with the latter and not so much the former.

But, I don't think I would ever support a private system like they have in the US (Medicare/Medicaid notwithstanding.)

[thumper]

Originally Posted by rslater

And yet again I say that the health care system has taken amazing care of me. From my problems as a child, to the operations i've had growing up, to visits to the emergency rooms, to my family doctor, every time i've had an issue its been excellent.

I've never experienced emergency room waits, i've never had troubles getting and MRI or getting an appointment with specialists in an extremely reasonable time.

I know their are tons of problems as witnessed daily, and yet if someone asked me personally about the health care system I would say its great. Does anyone have similiar feelings?

i've had the opposite experience. i waited over 5 hours just to get into emergency, and that is only because i had to finally throw up on the floor before someone took me in, and it was another 1 hour wait on a gurney in a corridor before someone could look at me. this was early last year at royal columbian, the day before the fire chief shut the place down because of overcrowding/fire hazard.

i also spent a week at burnaby hospital (there was no room for me at RCH), and it was enough for me to wish never to go back. they were so badly understaffed... something like only one nurse for 6 patients or more, and there was no possible way they could keep up. housekeeping was a joke (not surprising since it's privatized)... backed up toilets that took half a day for someone to come and clean up, and there was medical trash under my bed that was never cleaned up during my entire stay... i won't even mention the food, but that is a given anywhere


i also waited a month and a half for an MRI. i considered myself lucky because my aunt waited over 4 months for hers. the only way i got in was because my mom (ex-nurse) knew which people and departments to call and got me on the cancellation wait list, and i got the call in the middle of the night telling me i had a few hours to get myself to the hospital to get it done, so i got stuffed into a car and doped up with as much painkillers as i could stand and just barely made it there in time.

the specialist that i was referred to was rude and harsh in his treatment methods. when i had a drug reaction that sent me back to emergency, he didn't even bother to answer the calls from the attending ER physician until much later in the day, there was no follow up, requests for medical reports took weeks to obtain which delayed other treatments i needed, and messages to make other appointments went unanswered. because i have no family doctor (anyone here who is trying to look for one right now knows why), it was nearly impossible to find another specialist on my own because i had to have a referral.

and then there were the fees. fees for the ambulance trips, fees for getting medical forms filled out for claiming EI, etc., fees for... and so on.

it wasn't until my work medical coverage kicked in before i finally started getting real treatment, but by that time half a year had passed....

there is more, but anyway you guys get the idea

[91civicZC]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Depends how much you make.
If you're upper middle class, the American system is 10x better.

I was upper middle class, no, it wasn’t better. I paid into two insurance policies through my work there that covered myself and my wife. Me being a Canadian, I thought "Okay we are set!". I even had some friends go over the policies, all of them pretty much agreed, they were great policies, and covered pretty much everything you could want.

But, because the system there is based on private companies, "everything being covered" is more of a suggestion.

Going in for a check up? That’s a 15 dollar charge (co pay) just for visiting thanks, plus if you have anything done ( I had water in a tendon, took him a couple of seconds to lance it one time) You pay about half of the procedure. You insurance really only covers EVERYTHING after you have met the deductable (remember, its insurance based, just like ICBC). I have had experiences where x rays and scans cost us hundreds on top of the insurance we already pay.

It’s always interesting to see how you are getting billed out. We had a good laugh when we got the bill from the guy who READS the x-rays, and the place that TAKES the x-ray, and realized they are two different companies, and unrelated buisness wise to my Doctor in any way.

Also fun is arguing with your insurance if they decide something was not “necessary”, like you know, the tests that your doctor ordered.

Yes, the Canadian system needs some reform, but the principle is sound. Health care for Canadians should not be only affordable to the rich, it should be available to ALL Canadian citizens.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by 91civicZC

I lived there and used it for 4 years, it sucks. If you havent had to use it, you don’t know.

I have 2 sisters in the US that are nurses that say otherwise.

I said it before, if you have money the system works better in the US. You must be poor.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by 91civicZC

I was upper middle class, no, it wasn’t better. I paid into two insurance policies through my work there that covered myself and my wife. Me being a Canadian, I thought "Okay we are set!". I even had some friends go over the policies, all of them pretty much agreed, they were great policies, and covered pretty much everything you could want.

But, because the system there is based on private companies, "everything being covered" is more of a suggestion.

Going in for a check up? That’s a 15 dollar charge (co pay) just for visiting thanks, plus if you have anything done ( I had water in a tendon, took him a couple of seconds to lance it one time) You pay about half of the procedure. You insurance really only covers EVERYTHING after you have met the deductable (remember, its insurance based, just like ICBC). I have had experiences where x rays and scans cost us hundreds on top of the insurance we already pay.

It’s always interesting to see how you are getting billed out. We had a good laugh when we got the bill from the guy who READS the x-rays, and the place that TAKES the x-ray, and realized they are two different companies, and unrelated buisness wise to my Doctor in any way.

Also fun is arguing with your insurance if they decide something was not “necessary”, like you know, the tests that your doctor ordered.

You addressed finances without addressing quality.

I understand its a deductible/fee based system with insurance companies that don't like to cover everything - yet if you have the $$$ you can get much better care.

[scheng924]

Originally Posted by taylor192

I have 2 sisters in the US that are nurses that say otherwise.

I said it before, if you have money the system works better in the US. You must be poor.

so..... what you're saying is.. rich people should get better health care than the poor?

[91civicZC]

Originally Posted by taylor192

I have 2 sisters in the US that are nurses that say otherwise.

I said it before, if you have money the system works better in the US. You must be poor.

LOL. Your posts do make me laugh, Ill give you that.

Sorry, but not even close to being poor, despite what my sig tells you. Regardless, that’s sort of the point, Canadian medical should be open to everyone, not just the rich.

And as for quality, I have expereinced much better quality and friendlier care here than there, but thats just me.

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by 7seven

of course we know who Tommy Dougals is, he's Jack Bauers grand dad

I think the best solution is a hybrid of the Canadian healthcare system and private healthcare. IMO, if I don't want to wait, I should be able to head down to the False Creek Urgent Care Center and spend my own money to get quicker service and attention.

This is exactly what I think too.

[FiveDime]

Originally Posted by 7seven

of course we know who Tommy Dougals is, he's Jack Bauers grand dad

I think the best solution is a hybrid of the Canadian healthcare system and private healthcare. IMO, if I don't want to wait, I should be able to head down to the False Creek Urgent Care Center and spend my own money to get quicker service and attention.

We do have a private health care system, Its called the USA. You are more than welcome to go to the states and pay for the service you need done. We live within 1 hour of the boarder.

[!LittleDragon]

How's everyone getting their prescriptions paid for by the healthcare system? Without my extended medical plan from work, I'd be paying for mine out of pocket.

[FiveDime]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

How's everyone getting their prescriptions paid for by the healthcare system? Without my extended medical plan from work, I'd be paying for mine out of pocket.

Yes same with my extended medical. Point i was trying to prove is that our perscription prices are way lower than the USA. Old folks from the USA gather on buses and travel to canada to just to buy perscription drugs because they cant afford to buy them in the states.


Also US Dr's will over prescribe their patients because the more the prescribe the more they get paid by BIG pharma.

[zulutango]

"
We do have a private health care system, Its called the USA. You are more than welcome to go to the states and pay for the service you need done. We live within 1 hour of the boarder"

Seem to remember Mr Chretien doing just that...as the same time as he was blasting the Conservatives for even thinking about "2 tier health system" for Canada.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by scheng924

so..... what you're saying is.. rich people should get better health care than the poor?

They pay for your health care. Top 20% pay 80% of the taxes.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by zulutango

"We do have a private health care system, Its called the USA. You are more than welcome to go to the states and pay for the service you need done. We live within 1 hour of the boarder"

Seem to remember Mr Chretien doing just that...as the same time as he was blasting the Conservatives for even thinking about "2 tier health system" for Canada.

Why should we allow those who can afford it to skip across the border? That's money they could be spending here.

The Liberals will argue "the best doctors then would open private clinics leaving the public system understaffed", well if the doctors wanted to leave, they already could. Both my sisters work as nurses in the US cause it pays a LOT better.

[FiveDime]

Originally Posted by taylor192

They pay for your health care. Top 20% pay 80% of the taxes.

Source? Cuz i think your trolling

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by FiveDime

Source? Cuz i think your trolling

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/ind...le&pa=BB736455
http://www2.canada.com/national/nati...4-42693ee70259

I find it laughable that you didn't know this.

[scheng924]

Originally Posted by taylor192

They pay for your health care. Top 20% pay 80% of the taxes.

isn't that a bit of discriminating then if we split health care into tier levels? I don't know.. because I was born in a poor family.. so does that mean I should receive less health care in comparison to someone who was born from a rich family like paris hilton because i can't afford it if the gov't doesn't subsidize?

i work my ass off to pay for my own education so i don't have to strain the salary of my parents yet these rich kids have everything, including health care in this case handed down to them..

maybe i'm reading your points wrong or i'm being an idiot and not understand what you're saying, but it seems what you're saying to me at the moment is the less fortunate is SOL if they were born that way..

[Noir]

Originally Posted by scheng924

isn't that a bit of discriminating then if we split health care into tier levels? I don't know.. because I was born in a poor family.. so does that mean I should receive less health care in comparison to someone who was born from a rich family like paris hilton because i can't afford it if the gov't doesn't subsidize?

i work my ass off to pay for my own education so i don't have to strain the salary of my parents yet these rich kids have everything, including health care in this case handed down to them..

maybe i'm reading your points wrong or i'm being an idiot and not understand what you're saying, but it seems what you're saying to me at the moment is the less fortunate is SOL if they were born that way..

^^^ Relax. He's not that rich either. Just front's like he is.

That's why his remarks are elitist and everything in his current image must reflect how ballin' he is, such as his avatar. It's almost comparable the douches you see in clubs who all front like they're ballin'. It's not always necessarily so.

When you have the pleasure of knowing what real rich people are like, you'd be surprised.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by scheng924

isn't that a bit of discriminating then if we split health care into tier levels? I don't know.. because I was born in a poor family.. so does that mean I should receive less health care in comparison to someone who was born from a rich family like paris hilton because i can't afford it if the gov't doesn't subsidize?

i work my ass off to pay for my own education so i don't have to strain the salary of my parents yet these rich kids have everything, including health care in this case handed down to them..

maybe i'm reading your points wrong or i'm being an idiot and not understand what you're saying, but it seems what you're saying to me at the moment is the less fortunate is SOL if they were born that way..

Is it discrimination to progressively tax the rich? No.
So why is it discrimination to acknowledge the rich can afford better coverage? Afterall, they are paying the lions share of the tax that subsidizes your lifesetyle, wouldn't you want to ensure they stay alive to continue subsidizing your life?

I work my ass off too, yet why should I have to pay to subsidize:
- BA degrees for people who graduate with Ds or in useless programs who'll never use the degree my taxes subsidized?
- health care for homeless people that are given welfare (more of my money) to buy more drugs and more sick?
...

We don't discriminate when we give preferential treatment to certain people, yet when you mention the rich everyone gets up-in-arms about them having any sort of preferential treatment. Oh the irony.

[bengy]

difference between american and canadian healthcare system:

Canadian: free to minimal costs. wait forever for any kind of procedure that's high demand, such as MRI scans, operations etc... unless you've just got into a head on collision. The good thing about Canadian healthcare is the cheap drugs, which you'll have to take for a long time for pain because doctors won't fix whatever is wrong with you.

American: pay a lot, but if you get as much as a headache, you get popped in MRI, get a radiologist to read it half hour later, then a physician knows how to treat you.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Noir

^^^ Relax. He's not that rich either. Just front's like he is.

That's why his remarks are elitist and everything in his current image must reflect how ballin' he is, such as his avatar. It's almost comparable the douches you see in clubs who all front like they're ballin'. It's not always necessarily so.

When you have the pleasure of knowing what real rich people are like, you'd be surprised.

I'll change my avatar to something else if you're going to be ignorant and assume based on the 3-pointed star.

My car cost $34K base with a 5-star crash test rating, tons of standard features and cheap insurance. I certainly didn't buy it for the 3-pointed star, my brother's full loaded minivan cost nearly as much. LOL

My comments may appear elitist, yet they are realistic. We ask the top 20% to pay 80% of the tax so we can enjoy our subsidized lifestyles. We call this "paying your fair share" when it is hardly "fair".

[Noir]

Originally Posted by taylor192

I'll change my avatar to something else if you're going to be ignorant and assume based on the 3-pointed star.

My car cost $34K base with a 5-star crash test rating, tons of standard features and cheap insurance. I certainly didn't buy it for the 3-pointed star, my brother's full loaded minivan cost nearly as much. LOL

My comments may appear elitist, yet they are realistic. We ask the top 20% to pay 80% of the tax so we can enjoy our subsidized lifestyles. We call this "paying your fair share" when it is hardly "fair".

Thanks. Though I disagree with your idealogoy, I liked this response. Had to see if you were legit or another online persona with a Hyde complex.