Learning Chinese

[asian_XL]

forget about the tones, not even a real honger or mainlander knows about it, just speak a lot, hear it a lot and you are fine

[Wingman]

I guess it just comes down to what he wants to language for..

[E=mc²]

Originally Posted by asian_XL

forget about the tones, not even a real honger or mainlander knows about it, just speak a lot, hear it a lot and you are fine

I agree, but there are definitely advantages to knowing the tones/romanization systems after you've picked up basic grammar and vocab. You can look up words using a canto dictionary without having to bother a native speaker all the time. You can use flash cards or w/e for memorizing new words.

Hell I speak canto but I've learned a lot of new words from using http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/scripts/wordlist.htm

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by E=mc²

what? You're saying 三 and 七 don't have the same pitch? similarly, 四 vs 八, and 二 vs 六 ? They sound the same to me pitch wise. Try elongating the vowel sound without saying the stop at the end.

If you do a google search or w/e you'll see what I mean. It's not necessary to treat tones 7, 8, and 9 separately. It will more than likely confuse a beginner.

they divide the tones up as
1 - high level (三, 詩, 急 for -p ending)
2 - high rising (史, 粉)
3 - mid level (試, 四, 八 for -t ending)
4 - low falling (時, 琴)
5 - low rising (市, 我 )
6 - low level (事, 路, 木 for -k ending example)

You teach a beginner the 6 tones, and they can say pretty much every word.

I don't want to get into the details and all that but if I were to teach a beginner how to say 七, i'd just tel them how to say it, and tell them it's tone 1 for instance (if they are trying to write down pronunciation + tone on a sheet or paper or w/e for future reference)

I'm no expert, but it sounds right to me.


Whether there ARE minor discrepancies or not, I'll just say that 6 tones is really all you need. there's no need to learn anything else and any minor tone "tweaks" will be learned naturally through tv, radio, or having actual conversations. I mean look at mandarin (proper mandarin from China), there are definitely more than 4 tones. The neutral tone itself is a 5th tone and it actually has 4 different pitches depending on the tone of the previous word. The 3rd tone becomes a half tone when followed by another word (ie. it falls but doesn't rise again), etc...
a newbie will just get all confused XD

I guess I was confusing "tones" with something else. I thought you meant that these "tones" should basically "rhyme" with each other.

I was never "taught" any cantonese, just pick up what I hear. (Which is probabaly why I suck ) but that does tend to make me agree with A_XL that you don't necessarily have to learn theory to pick up a language. 6 tones, 9 tones, or my idea of no tones at all.. in the end all that matters is learning vocab and grammar.

[E=mc²]

^
I definitely agree with the part about just speaking + listening more. Language immersion is definitely the best way to learn the language.

Tones and pinyin aren't necessary, but they help. Especially if you're watching shows (they usually have chinese subs) and have to look up a word (I've done that for mandarin in the past since I knew pinyin).

PS. you live in HK don't you? no way you suck at canto man lol