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HealthCare & Wellness Breaking the Chains of Addiction. The Last Door Recovery Society
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:51 AM   #1
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Battle of the Diets

Chris Gardner, Ph.D., a researcher from Stanford University, published a study in 2007 comparing 4 diets:

-Atkins diet (high fat, low carb)
-Zone diet (30/40/30 fat/protein/carb ratio)
-Ornish diet (ultra low-fat, 10% total intake)
-LEARN diet (a version of the diet that the national guidelines are based on. They specify 55-60% intake based on carbs, and keep saturated fat under 10%)

The results are as I would expect, but you should watch his presentation on it. Yes, it's over an hour long, but totally worth watching if you want to learn more about how to eat properly, and want proof of most of what the academics are telling us is inaccurate (or bullshit).

An interesting tidbit from the presentation, as it pertains to the discussion going on in SG's Urchin thread regarding cholesterol. Some people still believe that eating cholesterol gives you bad cholesterol, and having high overall cholesterol makes you die from heart disease (at least I think they believe it, they may be trolling I dunno).

at around 24:00, Dr. Gardner makes an observation that reducing carbs makes triglycerides go down and adding fat makes HDL go up. He then says that all these people have come into the clinic he is involved with after having been on Ornish or McDougall (another low fat diet) only to find their triglycerides have skyrocketed and their HDLs have dropped off the chart. He tells them to increase their intake of saturated fat, and everything improves.

Anyway, the mainstream is finally picking up on what diets work, and which don't. In other words, they are catching on and accepting the proof that humans were meant to eat food that is high in fat and protein, not sugars and starches.

Eventually, if the academics catch on, they will start to brainwash people with proper information, and heart disease will go away again (yes again. It wasn't a problem until people started following these bizarre guidelines).

Here's the video, watch it. He's a good informal lecturer, so it isn't at all like sitting in school

Oh by the way, the researcher, whose studies are showing that Atkins improves your blood profile, is a vegetarian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo

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Old 10-14-2009, 09:10 AM   #2
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Abstract of the study

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/297/9/969

Direct link to the journal article

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/297/9/969.pdf

Conclusion: In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets. While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss.

PS: Looks pretty healthy for a person following a "poor diet". Then again, he's 50 years old and only an associate professor.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:37 PM   #3
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This guy eats about as good as any vegetarian can possibly eat (and he's not a vegan). I have nothing against vegetarianism. If you want to eat like that, go ahead! It's your choice! But don't try convincing other people that it is the way humans are supposed to eat, because not only is that wrong, it is the exact opposite of reality. In fact, humans only evolved to become what we are because we started eating meat.

Anyway, this thread should be about low carb/high fat vs. the standard diet, not intelligent healthy vegetarians
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:42 PM   #4
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To me, the most profound bit of information coming from this study is that no one actually followed the diets strictly. As you saw, three of the other diets pretty much merged into what people were eating before. And the people on Atkins didn't really do a strict Atkins diet, although their carbs were lower and fat intake was higher.

This is important, because it shows that you do not even need to reduce carb intake by a huge amount to get a positive effect not only on weight, but metabolic effects and blood profile. If you want to improve your cholesterol and lose weight, simply go "Atkins Light" and get rid of the junk from your diet (grains, rice, sugar) and eat more meat. This study proves that this is the best way to eat, and easy to do long term. Because who doesn't like fat? And if you aren't getting fat after eating more fat, and your cholesterol is improving after eating more fat, why not eat like this?
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:16 PM   #5
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That's a conclusion you can not draw from this study and the researchers know that too.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:32 PM   #6
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I'm not looking to draw conclusions to put into published studies, I am trying to come to a conclusion of how I should live my life. And based on all the evidence, this is the best way, especially for those who are somewhat insulin resistant.

In the presentation, the researcher tries very hard to fit his ideals into the study (and contradicts the data many times along the way). That is going to happen any time a human gives a presentation. But at least he didn't try to change the results to fit his ideals - that is what most academics would do (otherwise, they wouldn't have jobs).
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:02 AM   #7
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That research is hardcore.

imo its too hard to enjoy your life and what you eat if you're focussing on keeping such a strict diet. The best diet is one that is full healthy natural foods with lots of vegetables and fruits.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:11 AM   #8
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IMO, an "Atkins light" diet is a lot easier to keep than a "normal" diet. It's nice to never ever have to worry about fat intake, and still lose weight and have better cholesterol levels. And you will never ever have to worry about carb crashes (you may not even know you are having them unless you go low carb for a while, then have a high carb meal).
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
IMO, an "Atkins light" diet is a lot easier to keep than a "normal" diet. It's nice to never ever have to worry about fat intake, and still lose weight and have better cholesterol levels. And you will never ever have to worry about carb crashes (you may not even know you are having them unless you go low carb for a while, then have a high carb meal).
is it really that much easier to keep? it seems that al ot of people that have gone on the atkins diet, have eventually gone back to a regular one. The problem I see with atkins is that you will have no energy to do anything...
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Old 10-15-2009, 06:51 PM   #10
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every 50 pounds of weight eat a pounds of veggies and fruits
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:00 PM   #11
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is it really that much easier to keep? it seems that al ot of people that have gone on the atkins diet, have eventually gone back to a regular one. The problem I see with atkins is that you will have no energy to do anything...
LIke I said, people who go on Atkins don't necessarily stay on Atkins, but the study above shows that you don't have to. Just something resembling Atkins is enough to get a positive effect on weight and blood profile.

People who go on the less strict diets like Zone and LEARN don't stick to their diets either, and within 6 months are eating just the same, and get no benefit from even trying the diet. And people who go on the strict low-fat high-carb diet can't stay on it either - they end up eating the same after 6 months as well. Unlike Atkins dieters, they don't go on a "light" version of their diet.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
I'm not looking to draw conclusions to put into published studies, I am trying to come to a conclusion of how I should live my life. And based on all the evidence, this is the best way, especially for those who are somewhat insulin resistant.
It seems more like you are trying to take this study and twist the results to support and justify what you already believe.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:41 PM   #13
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It seems more like you are trying to take this study and twist the results to support and justify what you already believe.
Not at all, it's just a confirmation.

Nice try
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:45 PM   #14
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If you believe a study that suggests that overweight premenopausal women, who can't properly control their caloric intake, may have a better chance at doing it with an alternative diet that has more fat and protein means that this is the best way to eat, then by all means.

I'm just glad the researchers are smart enough to know that isn't the case and don't promote it. They wouldn't be where they are if they did, but sometimes tenure drives people crazy.
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by misteranswer View Post
If you believe a study that suggests that overweight premenopausal women, who can't properly control their caloric intake, may have a better chance at doing it with an alternative diet that has more fat and protein means that this is the best way to eat, then by all means.

I'm just glad the researchers are smart enough to know that isn't the case and don't promote it. They wouldn't be where they are if they did, but sometimes tenure drives people crazy.
Wow, you are a moron.

Edit: And I know what you're going to say. The answer is "because your post doesn't deserve more than that".
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:41 AM   #16
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Wow, you are a moron.

Edit: And I know what you're going to say. The answer is "because your post doesn't deserve more than that".
No, I'm just going to say you're the dumbest person on this forum by far. You preach this like you're preaching the Bible is the absolute truth, or 2012 is the end of the world. It would be accurate to compare you to a newly found Christian who needs to spread the gospel to everyone in order to justify his or her own beliefs.

You should definitely go back to eating cereal for every meal. You'll either become smarter or die earlier. Either way, the world is a better place.

You will now post something stupid so you can get the last word.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:57 AM   #17
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No, I'm just going to say you're the dumbest person on this forum by far. You preach this like you're preaching the Bible is the absolute truth, or 2012 is the end of the world. It would be accurate to compare you to a newly found Christian who needs to spread the gospel to everyone in order to justify his or her own beliefs.

You should definitely go back to eating cereal for every meal. You'll either become smarter or die earlier. Either way, the world is a better place.

You will now post something stupid so you can get the last word.
What part of the study do you disagree with?
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #18
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Just wait till i finish my midterms Ill take a look at the article.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:20 PM   #19
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Just wait till i finish my midterms Ill take a look at the article.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:19 PM   #20
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You preach this like you're preaching the Bible is the absolute truth, or 2012 is the end of the world.
I am not "preaching" anything to anyone. I just posted what I think is an interesting study on a topic that I am interested in, in a forum that is appropriate for such a topic.
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You will now post something stupid so you can get the last word.
No need to. No amount of mockery on my part could possibly make you look any worse. You are doing a fine job of making yourself look like a closed-minded ignorant fool
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:31 AM   #21
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i believe in metabolic typing, which gives you a diet that is tailored to how you metabolize the food you eat. We all have the same organs but they differ from person to person. Like we all have noses but they do not all look the same and some of us have nasal problems...

Some people metabolize protein better while others metabolize carbs better...and some are the mixed type..

I want to get tested for it.
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:17 PM   #22
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I am a living example that supports the OP's theory. I've lost more than 30lb on a high fat/moderate protein diet.. nearly cutting out all my carbs.. combined with exercise of course.

So, it does work. Mind you, you still need to count your calories cause it's not a free-for-all.
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:46 PM   #23
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^ Same as above I tried this diet just cut out less rice and bam I lost more weight though I wasn't counting calories I still lost weight. LOL
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Old 10-17-2009, 09:58 PM   #24
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You don't really need to count calories on a high fat diet usually. Because fat and protein are very satiating, you end up eating less than you would on high carb.

I have to force myself to eat more, because I want to get more protein in my diet to gain weight. But I am rarely hungry now, since I rarely eat grains or starches or sugar.
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