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Old 11-03-2009, 12:48 PM   #1
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how confident are you in tightening your own lugs?

ok..so you took your wheel(s) off for whatever reason and now gotta put them back on.. u DONT have a torque wrench or impact gun.. just your standard tire iron.

You follow the recommended pattern of 'star' tightening but how much pressure do you apply to be sure that the bolts are indeed as tight as
can be but not overtight?

Do you apply enough pressure with the tire iron so that it reaches a point where the lug simply wont turn any longer?


ALSO,

while we're on this topic... lets say i go out and buy a torque wrench...there are quite a few on the market from cheap walmart one to expensive ones... any differences?

Also, what is the proper way in using it? hand tighten the lugs and then set the lb/ft with the torque wrench and finish the tightening until it clicks?
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:51 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Acura604 View Post
Do you apply enough pressure with the tire iron so that it reaches a point where the lug simply wont turn any longer?
That's what I'd do - tighten it until it's very hard to turn it any further since you probably wouldn't be able to over-torque your lugs with a tire iron anyways.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:00 PM   #3
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or do what i do.

go buy an el cheapo torque wrench and keep it in ur car.

even if its not calibrated right, it cant be off by that crazy much, go buy an extension and the right sized socket for your lugs.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
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That's what I'd do - tighten it until it's very hard to turn it any further since you probably wouldn't be able to over-torque your lugs with a tire iron anyways.
You can't really say that cause it depends on the person.

My GF could probably get a set of lugs to 85ft/lbs, where I could probably get them closer to 120ft/lbs with an OE tire iron if I wanted.

Same with using a gun. It depends on the gun, what it's set at and how long someone wants to sit there and hammer away at it.

Just get a torque wrench or torque sticks.

Proper way to use a torque wrench is to tighten the lugs until they're seated on the wheel, set the wrench then tighten in sequence. Don't forget to zero out the wrench when you're done or you'll throw off the calibration (click style).

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Originally Posted by !SG View Post
even if its not calibrated right, it cant be off by that crazy much, go buy an extension and the right sized socket for your lugs.
Also, at least all the lugs will be equally tight. Try not to use an extension but instead a deep socket as extensions will throw off your reading.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:46 PM   #5
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A tire iron to as tight as you can without really cranking on it is good enough - you won't be able to over tighten the lugs that way.

As far as your 2nd question. Hand tighten then use tire iron to get them relatively tight. Lower car with the jack until the car tire is just on the ground and won't rotate. Tighten with torque wrench to specs, then lower the car to the ground.
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Old 11-04-2009, 05:01 AM   #6
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no real choice. even with a long socket, its still not deep enough to clear the lip.

but i managed to find a 2in extension socket. so its not all that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fliptuner View Post
You can't really say that cause it depends on the person.

My GF could probably get a set of lugs to 85ft/lbs, where I could probably get them closer to 120ft/lbs with an OE tire iron if I wanted.

Same with using a gun. It depends on the gun, what it's set at and how long someone wants to sit there and hammer away at it.

Just get a torque wrench or torque sticks.

Proper way to use a torque wrench is to tighten the lugs until they're seated on the wheel, set the wrench then tighten in sequence. Don't forget to zero out the wrench when you're done or you'll throw off the calibration (click style).



Also, at least all the lugs will be equally tight. Try not to use an extension but instead a deep socket as extensions will throw off your reading.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fliptuner View Post
You can't really say that cause it depends on the person.

My GF could probably get a set of lugs to 85ft/lbs, where I could probably get them closer to 120ft/lbs with an OE tire iron if I wanted.

Same with using a gun. It depends on the gun, what it's set at and how long someone wants to sit there and hammer away at it.

Just get a torque wrench or torque sticks.

Proper way to use a torque wrench is to tighten the lugs until they're seated on the wheel, set the wrench then tighten in sequence. Don't forget to zero out the wrench when you're done or you'll throw off the calibration (click style).



Also, at least all the lugs will be equally tight. Try not to use an extension but instead a deep socket as extensions will throw off your reading.
What do you mean by zero out the wrench when you're done?
Set it back to zero until you need to use it again?

Anyway to answer the OP, I bought a torque wrench and a couple sockets from CDN tire back in the summer
They did the trick just fine
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:15 AM   #8
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If you're using the OEM lug wrench, just reef/bounce as hard as you can BY HAND (ie no stepping on the handle unless you're a chick). The engineers designed these things to be used by an average-sized Joe Blow, who doesn't even know what torque is. There's a reason why the factory wrench handle is so damn short, but set to a precise length. It's no accident.

I did the calculations on my own wrench and realized I'd exert about 100ft-lbs with medium-sized effort (ie on my knees, cranking down by bouncing moderately with my torso). No need for a torque wrench.

The engineers would've also designed for an overtorque scenario. You can probably go up to double the OE specifications (if not more) without breaking anything. EVERYTHING gets a "design factor" put in.

With that said, I picked up a torque wrench for the garage. Factory wrench is such a PITA to use.

Last edited by slammer111; 11-05-2009 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:58 AM   #9
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Just go buy a torque wrench from Cdn tire.....watch for them to go on sale..I think I payed less than $30 for mine.
I was amazed how much I had been over-torquing mine...stretches the stud threads.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:04 PM   #10
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Wow, some of you guys are pretty clue less.

Torque specifications are designed for a reason. Under-over torquing your lug nuts can cause warping in the contact surface of your wheel and over time can cause damage. As well, lugs and all bolts for that matter have a threshold of elasticity to them. By overtorquing you stretch the bolts.

You CAN DEFINITELY overtorque lug nuts using the factory provided tool. The tool is designed to assist in a roadside repair that is TEMPORARY. On most if not all spare tires it says that its for temporary use and to not drive more than 50k on them. Tightening it until you cannot tighten it anymore IS overtorquing it. Wheels one most import cars are meant to be torqued anywhere between 65-85 ft. lbs.

I do not trust anyone else torquing my wheels by myself. A good torque wrench makes a helluva difference as well in accuracy. An uncalibrated torque wrench can be off by a lot, and thats just as bad as over/under torquing a lug nut using a tire iron.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:33 PM   #11
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^ Spare tires would most likely have the exact same torque ratings as your regular wheels, so what difference would that make?

Also off topic, but you're assuming that spare tires blow up at 51km if they're labeled 50km. Again, the engineers aren't stupid, and they realize that most people (ie non-car people) will probably drive a whole lot more than 50km on these things. I've had to once in an emergency (breakdown on the Coquihalla at 1am, drove 200km). Those stickers are really just there to remind people that these things are definitely not as robust as your regular tires. EVERYTHING that isn't designed by a retard has a "design factor" built in, especially critical components like your wheels!

You think that every 17" wheel out there has a 17.000" bead, and that every model of an engine made is will output within 0.01hp of each other? Even your torque wrench will have errors. So will the dimensions of your bolts, rims, and hubs. Even the material properties won't be 100% consistent.

Of course you can overtorque a factory wrench. Anyone can if they attached a 1m pipe to the end of their handle, or jumped on the handle with their foot. However, most people (think of your mother) would probably just push using their torso while on their knees, giving each lug about the *right* amount of torque. Just like how being 10ftlbs low won't cause your wheels to fly off, going 10-30ftlbs high won't break your wheels off either. Even if you have a torque wrench, things like paint/surface smoothness and dirt + rust will affect your "true" torque.

Have you taken any engineering/design courses?

Last edited by slammer111; 11-30-2009 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:25 PM   #12
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whats the exact pounds of torque are you suppose to torque your nuts?


i believe its 85-90 pounds

i think 90 pounds for OE

85 pounds for Rays aftermarket nuts
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
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^ Spare tires would most likely have the exact same torque ratings as your regular wheels, so what difference would that make?

Also off topic, but you're assuming that spare tires blow up at 51km if they're labeled 50km. Again, the engineers aren't stupid, and they realize that most people (ie non-car people) will probably drive a whole lot more than 50km on these things. I've had to once in an emergency (breakdown on the Coquihalla at 1am, drove 200km). Those stickers are really just there to remind people that these things are definitely not as robust as your regular tires. EVERYTHING that isn't designed by a retard has a "design factor" built in, especially critical components like your wheels!

You think that every 17" wheel out there has a 17.000" bead, and that every model of an engine made is will output within 0.01hp of each other? Even your torque wrench will have errors. So will the dimensions of your bolts, rims, and hubs. Even the material properties won't be 100% consistent.

Of course you can overtorque a factory wrench. Anyone can if they attached a 1m pipe to the end of their handle, or jumped on the handle with their foot. However, most people (think of your mother) would probably just push using their torso while on their knees, giving each lug about the *right* amount of torque. Just like how being 10ftlbs low won't cause your wheels to fly off, going 10-30ftlbs high won't break your wheels off either. Even if you have a torque wrench, things like paint/surface smoothness and dirt + rust will affect your "true" torque.

Have you taken any engineering/design courses?
You're factory wrench provided with your spare is not intended for you to be doing wheel swaps with in the first place, it is intended to put your spare on it shouldn't be anywhere near your summer wheels or w/e.

I know there is a margin of error provided for the safe operation of the spare tire. However you said it yourself there is a lot of R&D that goes into everything down to spare tires and lug nuts. Engineers are stupid as you put it, theyre not going to put a 50km label on it without due cause. I've seen spare tire blowouts and theyre not fun, high pressure combined with limited material is not a good combination.

All aspects of vehicles have tolerances and as technology advances those tolerances get tighter. You're mentioning a 25% +/- for torque yet your going down to the 1/1000th of an inch, not very consistent and not comparible. 25% is pretty big as far as torque goes. Being untertorqued, especially on a high powered vehicle can cause lug nuts to back off. And lugs themselves stretch from mistorqued.

I have two Snap - On torque wrenches I get calibrated annually. I've built motors and pretty much complete cars with them and will always stick by them.

I torque my Soarer's lug nuts to spec and have to retorque them regularly as they back themselves off from the power. If I was to undertorque them I would hate to see the outcome.

And you do not need a 1m extension on an OE tire iron to overtorque your wheels. It actually does not require that much effort on on of those irons.

No, I have not taken any engineering courses, however I have been building cars for quite some time and worked as a technician for several years. I'm not here to convert you into using a torque wrench, I could care less what happens to you. I'm correcting misinformation.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:02 PM   #14
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ok..so you took your wheel(s) off for whatever reason and now gotta put them back on.. u DONT have a torque wrench or impact gun.. just your standard tire iron.

You follow the recommended pattern of 'star' tightening but how much pressure do you apply to be sure that the bolts are indeed as tight as
can be but not overtight?

Do you apply enough pressure with the tire iron so that it reaches a point where the lug simply wont turn any longer?


ALSO,

while we're on this topic... lets say i go out and buy a torque wrench...there are quite a few on the market from cheap walmart one to expensive ones... any differences?

Also, what is the proper way in using it? hand tighten the lugs and then set the lb/ft with the torque wrench and finish the tightening until it clicks?
dont need to spend $ on torque wrench. what you do is you tighten them with your hands until you cant turn them anymore, put the car down so it wont spin on you when you turn them with your hands along your body weight(dont go too crazy). your body weight is already more than 85ft.lb. when your tightening them, pretend your drawing a star.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:28 PM   #15
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The important thing is that the wheels go on flush, the lugnuts are on straight, and they are torqued as close as possible to spec.

Whether you use a power tool or tire iron or torque wrench doesnt make a difference as long as you get the right result. FYI you can screw up the job even if you have a calibrated torque wrench!!!

FWIW, after 10 years of autox and track days, changing my fucking wheels 2-3 times a week BY HAND, my arms are now tire-iron calibrated to exactly 96ft lbs.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:16 AM   #16
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use trial and error

once you've warped your rotors lost a wheel and stretched some studs you should have a good idea of how tight they should be.
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:47 PM   #17
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so i bought the same impact wrench at crappy tire as Acura604

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows...t%2BWrench.jsp

on the box, it says it tightens lug nuts to 220lb of torque.... i read the instructions manual and it didn't say how to adjust the torque. can anyone help? or what else should i do? just return it?

i notice that all the tire shops and dealers use impact guns, are they even set up so that the torque specs are 70-100ft lbs? i.e. big-o-tires
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:59 PM   #18
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so i bought the same impact wrench at crappy tire as Acura604

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows...t%2BWrench.jsp

on the box, it says it tightens lug nuts to 220lb of torque.... i read the instructions manual and it didn't say how to adjust the torque. can anyone help? or what else should i do? just return it?

i notice that all the tire shops and dealers use impact guns, are they even set up so that the torque specs are 70-100ft lbs? i.e. big-o-tires
Impact gun /= torque wrench.

You're supposed to use the gun to remove lugs and tighten them until the wheel sits flush on the hub, THEN use a torque wrench so as to apply even pressure/tighten to spec.

One of the reviews on the link you posted said the gun tightented to 87ft/lbs so 220 is probably some unrealistic maximum.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:11 PM   #19
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yea, i read that too.

maybe i will gun my lugs in and test it out with a 80ft lb torque wrench.

i thought this was going to be a $50 shortcut so i don't need to do the hard labour myself. lol
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:17 AM   #20
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yah that impact gun works great..well worth the price... perhaps couple it with that $20 torque wrench from princess auto.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:38 PM   #21
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went down to portland for the weekend and got myself a 80-120ft-lb torque wrench for $24 =)

car stuff there is just SO CHEAP!

i also bought a 13/16" socket because the impact gun kit didn't have it.
it was only $4.50, compared to stupid $8.99 + taxes here at crappy tire.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:57 AM   #22
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I have been tightening my lugs by feel for years and have never had any problems. A torque wrench would be the better option though.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:44 PM   #23
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while on this subject instead of starting a new thread, can u buy lug nuts with out a locking key, then buy a part that goes on the end of one of the lugs that requires a key?
i saw this thing called bulldog locks or something, comes with 4 "locks" and a key ment for lugs that dont come with a locking key. basically is there a way to increase security on lug nuts that dont come with a locking key?
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