REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Rambler · 11-05-2009, 07:42 PM

So just yesterday I too received a drive without consideration ticket 144(1)(b) for an event that allegedly occurred three months ago...in a town a few hundred miles from where I live. A local police officer tracked me down to hand deliver it. He was quite nice about it all but he had absolutely no idea what it was for.

And I'm not sure myself what might have caused this. I do recall coming back from camping with my kids through this town (I'm assuming this is the same day) and remember this old lady swore at me across an intersection loud enough my my kids could hear (how do you forget that!). My truck was totally loaded with gear and I was having to use the tiny side mirrors to change lanes ...so maybe I cut them off?

Is this a common way to receive this sort of charge? And if so, is it normal for it to be delivered so many months later??

Anyways - I'm looking for advice on how to proceed. My knee jerk was to just call the officer but then thought maybe I should give this some thought on what I'll ask and to what questions I'll respond to.

Should I have a concern I might say something that opens me up to other charges? Should I just ask for the information without providing comment or is there room for negotiation here? I'll be kinda choked if I have to go all the way up there to defend.

This whole thing is a real puzzle to me.

thanks in advance

CRS · 11-05-2009, 10:52 PM

I'll go through answers they way they were asked.

1. Yes, receiving a mail hand delivered by an officer is fairly common. You need to be issued a ticket by the officer. So they cannot just send it to you. Lucky thing is (IIRC), if you dispute the ticket, both officers need to be present for the case. I could be wrong about that.

2. A officer has up to a year to ticket you. So if you committed a crime today, the officer has up to next year today to file something against you. So 3 months isn't all that long of a time. It may seem odd, but it is well within the officer's right. By saying new things, you could be opening yourself to more charges but you don't have to say anything that is self incriminating. So just keep it short and do step 3.

3. If you plan on disputing, ask for a disclosure of evidence/information. You are going to ask for the officer's notes on what happened and see everything he had observed. From this, you should be able to build a proper defence.

I hope that helps. Oh and everything I just listed is for the officer who wrote the ticket out. Like the one where you were visiting. Not the one who delivered the ticket.

Soundy · 11-05-2009, 10:59 PM

Sounds to me like the only officer involved was the "local" one that delivered the ticket... IF Rambler is correct in his assumption on the source of the ticket, the old woman probably went in to her local cop shop and made a statement, so any disclosure would probably include that and not much else.

Even that, though, should at least give enough info to jog your memory... maybe help you to remember where you were that day... possibly look up gas receipts or credit card statements to confirm that you were there at that time.

It's also possible that you were ticketed by mistake - someone could have seen a similar vehicle with a similar plate do something wrong, and wrote down or reported the plate number wrong. You could get the statement and find out that it alleges you committed the offense when you were actually somewhere else entirely.

Talking to the cop who delivered the ticket won't do you much good, I'm betting... he already told you he doesn't know what it's for, he's just a delivery boy in this instance.

zulutango · 11-06-2009, 05:16 AM

I have served VT for out of town offenses, on behalf of another Member. I could be called for court simply to say that I had served you the ticket, nothing else. I usually got a letter from the other Member and the original VT, which I served you a true copy of, after you signed it. None of the offense details were given to me. The trial would be held where the law was broken. I never was required to go out of town for any trial. Maybe the court took judicial notice that the fact you contested the ticket was evidence enough to say you were served the copy, and I was not required. At one time in BC I could just leave the VT with someone at your residence who appeared to be older than 16 years of age as that was an option on the back.

taylor192 · 11-06-2009, 08:42 AM

How can an officer ticket you later for an offense if you were never pulled over? The officer would not know who was driving.

zulutango · 11-06-2009, 09:01 AM

You may have been positively identified by the person who saw you do it...or the ticket may be served on you as the owner of the vehicle. The owner is responsible unless they identify the actual driver.

Uncle Benz · 11-07-2009, 09:11 AM

The ticket you have received is a serious ticket. It carries 6 penalty points. Here in Ontario that's enough to double your insurance rates. I'm not sure what the exact implications of 6 points are in BC, but I'm sure they're not good as they are likely to affect your driving record and insurance rates. The officers can correct me if I am wrong.

I would highly suggest you dispute the ticket and request disclosure. It is possible the woman you think swore at you made the complaint, or it could be someone else. Either way whoever made the complaint against you would have to appear in court, in addition to the Officer who issued the ticket. You have the right to cross examine both the officer and complainant. Keep in mind if either of them does not appear in court the charge against you would be withdrawn.

If you can't attend court due to distance or whatever reason you can often find local traffic ticket agents who will attend court on your behalf.

skidmark · 11-07-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Benz

If you can't attend court due to distance or whatever reason you can often find local traffic ticket agents who will attend court on your behalf.

While this is legal in BC, I have been in court where the JJP has refused to allow it.

If you choose to do this, the person acting as your agent may cross examine witnesses but cannot introduce any evidence. You have to be present to testify in order to do that.

Uncle Benz · 11-07-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidmark

While this is legal in BC, I have been in court where the JJP has refused to allow it.

If you choose to do this, the person acting as your agent may cross examine witnesses but cannot introduce any evidence. You have to be present to testify in order to do that.

Yup, forgot to mention that. My apologies.

I've come across the same situation here as well where the JJP did not allow the agent to proceed, but this was only when the agent did not have written instructions to proceed or anything signed by the defendant authorizing the agent.

xpl0sive · 11-09-2009, 12:50 PM

IIRC if a ticket is served to the owner of the vehicle at a later date, and the owner does not declare the operator, the ticket does not carry any points... like a red light camera ticket for instance

CRS · 11-09-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

IIRC if a ticket is served to the owner of the vehicle at a later date, and the owner does not declare the operator, the ticket does not carry any points... like a red light camera ticket for instance

Correct.