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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 11-15-2009, 12:31 AM   #1
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Allowed or Disallowed Manoevres?

Please see the following.

First image shows where the questions refer to in East Vancouver.


Second image is the same as the first, with the labels turned off.


This is a closeup for the red arrow.

Going northbound on Knight Street, is it legal to turn left onto 23rd Avenue (behind Gant's Pharmacy)? There is an island to the left of the left turn lane, so you really have to turn through the crosswalk.

This is a closeup for the blue arrow.

Going eastbound on Kingsway, is it legal to turn left onto Knight Street, and then immediately across three lanes to take a right onto 22nd Avenue?

This is a closeup for the green arrow.

Going eastbound on Kingsway, if the light is red, you would be stopped behind the crosswalk. Is it legal to proceed ahead to turn right when the light is still red, even though the cross street is so far ahead of the crosswalk?

Bonus question: Are parking signs in effect for holidays? We have signs around our apartment complex that prohibits stopping from 3-6pm on weekdays. However, this past Wednesday (Remembrance Day), there were tons of cars parked on the street during that time. Was wondering if so many people all collectively decided to take a risk, or is there an exclusion clause that says the time restrictions do not apply for holidays? I just read an article that says that parking meters definitely still apply for holidays, but what about street signs that prohibit parking during certain times?
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Old 11-15-2009, 01:33 AM   #2
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1. No
2. As long as its safe to do so
3. I seriously doubt it but it may be ok if theres no sign saying no right turn on red
bonus : parking bylaws are decided on by the municipality, depends on what municipality, check with them.

(keep in mind this isnt legal advice, I'm not a cop )
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo911_ View Post
1. No
2. As long as its safe to do so
3. I seriously doubt it but it may be ok if theres no sign saying no right turn on red
bonus : parking bylaws are decided on by the municipality, depends on what municipality, check with them.

(keep in mind this isnt legal advice, I'm not a cop )

I'm not a Cop either,but since you never said Officers only .

1)No ,that is why they put the Island there.
2)If you turn into the center lane and then maneuver over to the turning lane safely .Its a pretty short distance to achieve all that and I'm not sure if there are any laws about having to be in a lane for X-amount of feet before switching.
3)Since you are not actually turning at the light,but 4+ car lengths past ,that is a big no.
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:49 PM   #4
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1) No.
2) Yes, if you are able to make the lane changes safely.
3) No.

As mentioned above, you'd have to check with individual city bylaws for the parking restrictions.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:16 AM   #5
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Any police officers want to weigh in here?
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:17 AM   #6
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1) No.
2) Yes, if you are able to make the lane changes safely.
3) No.

As mentioned above, you'd have to check with individual city bylaws for the parking restrictions.
I have.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:21 AM   #7
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Regarding #3, I think it's actually legal.

This is what I could find about it in the MVA, Section 129 (3):

Quote:
(3) Despite subsection (1), and except when a right turn permitted by this subsection is prohibited by a sign at an intersection, the driver of a vehicle facing the red light, and which in obedience to it is stopped as closely as practicable to a marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, as closely as practicable to the intersection, may cause the vehicle to make a right turn, but the driver must yield the right of way to all pedestrians and vehicles lawfully proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection.
It's a convoluted jumble of words, but what I think it's saying is that you can make a right turn at an intersection on a red light... and in this case, even though the cross street is so far ahead, it is still part of the intersection, bounded by the two crosswalks on Kingsway.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:22 AM   #8
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I have.
Sorry, didn't realize you were.

But what do you think about #3 with respect to the above?
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:24 AM   #9
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For #1, if you were to see somehow making that turn, what would you actually write up as the rule that was violated?
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:30 AM   #10
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You could argue it in court and you might win. However, in order to make the turn, you have to travel through 90% of the intersection before reaching the corner. You have a blind-to-you road from the left. That section allows you to proceed with a right turn if its safe to do so. If a vehicle is coming from the left and you don't see it until you're in the middle of the intersection, where do you stop? In the middle of the intersection? Do you cut off the other driver? Does that driver (who can't see your right turn signal from that angle) know what you're doing? It creates an unsafe situation.

Or, you could wait the 30 seconds it takes for the light to change and go then.

Thankfully, we don't have any roads like that to deal with in Richmond.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:36 AM   #11
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For #1, if you were to see somehow making that turn, what would you actually write up as the rule that was violated?
I don't have my fine book for the wording, but I think its "Improper left turn" or something along those lines.

http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/...xml#section165
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:15 PM   #12
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You could argue it in court and you might win. However, in order to make the turn, you have to travel through 90% of the intersection before reaching the corner. You have a blind-to-you road from the left. That section allows you to proceed with a right turn if its safe to do so. If a vehicle is coming from the left and you don't see it until you're in the middle of the intersection, where do you stop? In the middle of the intersection? Do you cut off the other driver? Does that driver (who can't see your right turn signal from that angle) know what you're doing? It creates an unsafe situation.
I actually don't agree with your assessment that it creates an unsafe situation.

These are my reasons:

1) Why do you consider that a blind-to-you road from the left? It seems very easy to see if there is a car coming from there or not, plus there is a stop sign there.
2) Even if there is a vehicle coming from the left, there is no way there should ever be a need to cut him off. You would be driving along the curb lane, and even if the other vehicle was proceeding straight across the road instead of turning left, you do have plenty of room to stop without invading his space.
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:20 PM   #13
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I don't have my fine book for the wording, but I think its "Improper left turn" or something along those lines.

http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/...xml#section165
Hmm... tried looking through it, especially in regard to Section 165 but couldn't ascertain where the violation would come from.

For the sake of argument, what if the island ended just before the crosswalk, would that be a valid left turn?
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:56 PM   #14
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If you could make the turn without effectively making a u-turn (ie. no island ending at the intersection), I personally wouldn't issue a ticket.

Its hard to tell from the image, but it looks like one could almost make the left turn before the island begins? I haven't passed through that intersection for a while.

As for Section 165, if you read through the legal wording on how the left turn is supposed to be completed properly, you can't possibly do it at that intersection the way it is now. At least its not as bad as No 3 Rd is now with all the center dividers blocking access to the business on the West side of the road for northbound traffic. Non-stop illegal u-turns since they put those in.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:12 AM   #15
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#1 is definitely a U-turn.
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