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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only. |
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11-14-2009, 11:31 PM
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#1 | | The RS Freebie guru
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: East Vancouver
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| Allowed or Disallowed Manoevres?
Please see the following.
First image shows where the questions refer to in East Vancouver. 
Second image is the same as the first, with the labels turned off. 
This is a closeup for the red arrow. 
Going northbound on Knight Street, is it legal to turn left onto 23rd Avenue (behind Gant's Pharmacy)? There is an island to the left of the left turn lane, so you really have to turn through the crosswalk.
This is a closeup for the blue arrow. 
Going eastbound on Kingsway, is it legal to turn left onto Knight Street, and then immediately across three lanes to take a right onto 22nd Avenue?
This is a closeup for the green arrow. 
Going eastbound on Kingsway, if the light is red, you would be stopped behind the crosswalk. Is it legal to proceed ahead to turn right when the light is still red, even though the cross street is so far ahead of the crosswalk?
Bonus question: Are parking signs in effect for holidays? We have signs around our apartment complex that prohibits stopping from 3-6pm on weekdays. However, this past Wednesday (Remembrance Day), there were tons of cars parked on the street during that time. Was wondering if so many people all collectively decided to take a risk, or is there an exclusion clause that says the time restrictions do not apply for holidays? I just read an article that says that parking meters definitely still apply for holidays, but what about street signs that prohibit parking during certain times?
Last edited by InvisibleSoul; 11-15-2009 at 01:57 AM.
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11-15-2009, 12:33 AM
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#2 | | B&S Sexy mod
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Victoria
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1. No
2. As long as its safe to do so
3. I seriously doubt it but it may be ok if theres no sign saying no right turn on red
bonus : parking bylaws are decided on by the municipality, depends on what municipality, check with them.
(keep in mind this isnt legal advice, I'm not a cop  )
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11-15-2009, 08:38 AM
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#3 | | Need my Daily Fix of RS
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Nanaimo B.C.
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo911_  1. No
2. As long as its safe to do so
3. I seriously doubt it but it may be ok if theres no sign saying no right turn on red
bonus : parking bylaws are decided on by the municipality, depends on what municipality, check with them.
(keep in mind this isnt legal advice, I'm not a cop ) |
I'm not a Cop either,but since you never said Officers only .
1)No ,that is why they put the Island there.
2)If you turn into the center lane and then maneuver over to the turning lane safely .Its a pretty short distance to achieve all that and I'm not sure if there are any laws about having to be in a lane for X-amount of feet before switching.
3)Since you are not actually turning at the light,but 4+ car lengths past ,that is a big no.
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11-15-2009, 11:49 AM
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#4 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PR
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1) No.
2) Yes, if you are able to make the lane changes safely.
3) No.
As mentioned above, you'd have to check with individual city bylaws for the parking restrictions.
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11-16-2009, 10:16 AM
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#5 | | The RS Freebie guru
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Any police officers want to weigh in here?
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11-16-2009, 10:17 AM
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#6 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PR
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Originally Posted by sho_bc 1) No.
2) Yes, if you are able to make the lane changes safely.
3) No.
As mentioned above, you'd have to check with individual city bylaws for the parking restrictions. | I have.
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"Never give a match up halfway through. Never say that you do not feel up to it, that your condition is bad, and throw in the towel. Fight to the very end, always looking for your chance to break through." - Kazuzo Kudo
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11-16-2009, 10:21 AM
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#7 | | The RS Freebie guru
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Regarding #3, I think it's actually legal.
This is what I could find about it in the MVA, Section 129 (3): Quote: |
(3) Despite subsection (1), and except when a right turn permitted by this subsection is prohibited by a sign at an intersection, the driver of a vehicle facing the red light, and which in obedience to it is stopped as closely as practicable to a marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, as closely as practicable to the intersection, may cause the vehicle to make a right turn, but the driver must yield the right of way to all pedestrians and vehicles lawfully proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection.
| It's a convoluted jumble of words, but what I think it's saying is that you can make a right turn at an intersection on a red light... and in this case, even though the cross street is so far ahead, it is still part of the intersection, bounded by the two crosswalks on Kingsway.
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11-16-2009, 10:22 AM
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#8 | | The RS Freebie guru
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Originally Posted by sho_bc I have. | Sorry, didn't realize you were.
But what do you think about #3 with respect to the above?
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11-16-2009, 10:24 AM
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#9 | | The RS Freebie guru
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: East Vancouver
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For #1, if you were to see somehow making that turn, what would you actually write up as the rule that was violated?
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11-16-2009, 10:30 AM
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#10 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PR
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You could argue it in court and you might win. However, in order to make the turn, you have to travel through 90% of the intersection before reaching the corner. You have a blind-to-you road from the left. That section allows you to proceed with a right turn if its safe to do so. If a vehicle is coming from the left and you don't see it until you're in the middle of the intersection, where do you stop? In the middle of the intersection? Do you cut off the other driver? Does that driver (who can't see your right turn signal from that angle) know what you're doing? It creates an unsafe situation.
Or, you could wait the 30 seconds it takes for the light to change and go then.
Thankfully, we don't have any roads like that to deal with in Richmond. 
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"Never give a match up halfway through. Never say that you do not feel up to it, that your condition is bad, and throw in the towel. Fight to the very end, always looking for your chance to break through." - Kazuzo Kudo
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11-16-2009, 10:36 AM
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#11 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PR
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Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul For #1, if you were to see somehow making that turn, what would you actually write up as the rule that was violated? | I don't have my fine book for the wording, but I think its "Improper left turn" or something along those lines. http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/...xml#section165
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"Never give a match up halfway through. Never say that you do not feel up to it, that your condition is bad, and throw in the towel. Fight to the very end, always looking for your chance to break through." - Kazuzo Kudo
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11-16-2009, 11:15 AM
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#12 | | The RS Freebie guru
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: East Vancouver
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Originally Posted by sho_bc You could argue it in court and you might win. However, in order to make the turn, you have to travel through 90% of the intersection before reaching the corner. You have a blind-to-you road from the left. That section allows you to proceed with a right turn if its safe to do so. If a vehicle is coming from the left and you don't see it until you're in the middle of the intersection, where do you stop? In the middle of the intersection? Do you cut off the other driver? Does that driver (who can't see your right turn signal from that angle) know what you're doing? It creates an unsafe situation. | I actually don't agree with your assessment that it creates an unsafe situation.
These are my reasons:
1) Why do you consider that a blind-to-you road from the left? It seems very easy to see if there is a car coming from there or not, plus there is a stop sign there.
2) Even if there is a vehicle coming from the left, there is no way there should ever be a need to cut him off. You would be driving along the curb lane, and even if the other vehicle was proceeding straight across the road instead of turning left, you do have plenty of room to stop without invading his space.
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11-16-2009, 11:20 AM
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#13 | | The RS Freebie guru
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: East Vancouver
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Originally Posted by sho_bc | Hmm... tried looking through it, especially in regard to Section 165 but couldn't ascertain where the violation would come from.
For the sake of argument, what if the island ended just before the crosswalk, would that be a valid left turn?
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11-16-2009, 11:56 AM
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#14 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PR
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If you could make the turn without effectively making a u-turn (ie. no island ending at the intersection), I personally wouldn't issue a ticket.
Its hard to tell from the image, but it looks like one could almost make the left turn before the island begins? I haven't passed through that intersection for a while.
As for Section 165, if you read through the legal wording on how the left turn is supposed to be completed properly, you can't possibly do it at that intersection the way it is now. At least its not as bad as No 3 Rd is now with all the center dividers blocking access to the business on the West side of the road for northbound traffic. Non-stop illegal u-turns since they put those in.
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"Never give a match up halfway through. Never say that you do not feel up to it, that your condition is bad, and throw in the towel. Fight to the very end, always looking for your chance to break through." - Kazuzo Kudo
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11-17-2009, 10:12 AM
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#15 | | Orgasm Donor & Alatar owned my ass twice!
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#1 is definitely a U-turn.
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