REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Police Forum

Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-18-2009, 08:14 PM   #1
Retired Traffic Cop
 
skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nanoose Bay, BC
Posts: 9,023
Thanked 115 Times in 66 Posts
DriveSmartBC - Window Tinting Films

Window tinting looks cool, keeps your vehicle interior cool, or hides your vehicle contents from potential thieves. The drawback with tinting certain windows is that it limits the driver's ability to see and be seen. It is also illegal and may result in enforcement action in the form of either a ticket or a repair order.

One of the rules of defensive driving is to make eye contact with other drivers. A wise pedestrian will also make eye contact with a driver to insure that they have been seen before walking in front of a vehicle. This is impossible for other drivers and pedestrians if you have darkened side windows.

Studies indicate that seniors are particularly affected by window tinting. Their ability to identify and react to low contrast targets is significantly compromised by the light transmission restriction of the film. This applies to a lesser extent to all of us, regardless of age.

The Motor Vehicle Act Regulations are very specific about any film that reduces the light transmitted by a window. You will note that there is no mention of how light or dark the film is. If it reduces the light transmitted in any way, it may only be applied on certain windows of the vehicle.

Film may be applied to the top three inches of the windshield or to any of the side windows behind the driver's shoulders. The film may also be applied to the rear window if the vehicle is equipped with an outside mirror on both sides. Film must not be applied to the windows of the driver and front passenger doors.

Reference Links
Advertisement
__________________
Have you ever met anyone that would admit to being less than a better than average driver ??

Learn more at DriveSmartBC
skidmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 09:44 PM   #2
What hasn't Killed me, has made me more tolerant of RS!
 
NeoDestinyZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C
Posts: 153
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Hi sir, what if the car came with tinted windows? Such as previous owner's or the newer car models these days, they usually have it or comes with it. So what level of percentage can you have for driver or passenger side tinted windows? I mean the main reason people put them on is because of their identity or either to protect there vehicle from thieves looking into it. I do think that people are aloud to have some privacy or protection for their personal rights in this country, hope you can answer this question sir.

thank you
__________________
Serial Entrepreneur, Venture Capitalist for Private Equities, Software Business, Joint Ventures, Businessman.
NeoDestinyZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 10:22 PM   #3
VAC Head Rotang Mod
 
Raid3n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: GP
Posts: 10,377
Thanked 1,180 Times in 523 Posts
unless it is smoked glass (tinted when it was manufactured, and is the factory glass) then no tinting is allowed on any of the front 3 windows.
__________________
1990 FC3S
1984 GSX-R 400
2001 CBR600F4i

My Feedback (10-0-0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fei-Ji View Post
haha i can taste the cum in my mouth
Raid3n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2009, 09:47 AM   #4
I bringith the lowerballerith
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: PR
Posts: 1,131
Thanked 250 Times in 128 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoDestinyZ View Post
Hi sir, what if the car came with tinted windows?
If its on the driver or front passenger side windows, you'll either have to remove it or risk the Violation Tickets/Notice and Order fix-it tickets that come with having front tint.

As for "protecting your identity", having front tint is not going to protect your identity.
__________________
"Never give a match up halfway through. Never say that you do not feel up to it, that your condition is bad, and throw in the towel. Fight to the very end, always looking for your chance to break through." - Kazuzo Kudo
sho_bc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2009, 11:41 AM   #5
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Skidmark, you sure know how to open the pot for stirring
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2009, 11:43 AM   #6
I bringith the lowerballerith
 
hirevtuner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,179
Thanked 178 Times in 77 Posts
but in an accident, it will protect you as the whole tinted glass would shatter just one piece instead of many resulting shards shattering at your face and body
hirevtuner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2009, 11:51 AM   #7
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirevtuner View Post
but in an accident, it will protect you as the whole tinted glass would shatter just one piece instead of many resulting shards shattering at your face and body
You can refer to the other tinting thread for the study/article that I referenced, but yes, laminated glass does reduce the amount of airborne dust and glass fragments that are projected towards the driver, which is why some cars are now coming with laminated safety glass for the front side windows. Tint film, while not the same product, can reduce the chance of being injured by these projectiles. I wouldn't want to take the chance of getting glass dust behind my eye ball.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 10:01 AM   #8
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
jlenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 3,562
Thanked 330 Times in 163 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirevtuner View Post
but in an accident, it will protect you as the whole tinted glass would shatter just one piece instead of many resulting shards shattering at your face and body
You can refer to the other tinting thread for the study/article that I referenced, but yes, laminated glass does reduce the amount of airborne dust and glass fragments that are projected towards the driver, which is why some cars are now coming with laminated safety glass for the front side windows. Tint film, while not the same product, can reduce the chance of being injured by these projectiles. I wouldn't want to take the chance of getting glass dust behind my eye ball.
Actually... if your head were to go thru part of the side window... it's just like not wearing your seatbelt and your head going thru the windshield partially.... you'd really hate the lamination then, when it's tearing through your throat.

Automotive glass is safety glass for a reason... it breaks into small pieces (not shards) so it doesn't impale you and get lodged into parts of your body.

Anyone who uses the dust as a reason to tint the windows is just plain ignorant.
__________________
Don't be the next RS.net statistic - If you drink, don't drive. You'll lose your licence, and the rest of us will laugh at you.
jlenko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 10:17 AM   #9
The RS Freebie guru
 
InvisibleSoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East Vancouver
Posts: 22,029
Thanked 2,489 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
One of the rules of defensive driving is to make eye contact with other drivers. A wise pedestrian will also make eye contact with a driver to insure that they have been seen before walking in front of a vehicle. This is impossible for other drivers and pedestrians if you have darkened side windows.
I've made eye contact with pedestrians before, so I can relate to that one... but I can't relate to the defensive driving one at all. In what circumstances would you ever make eye contact with another driver, especially when related to defensive driving?

The only scenario I can even think of is looking over at the car beside you while stopped at a light... but can't think of any instance where I would make eye contact while actually driving.
InvisibleSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 10:50 AM   #10
14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Maple Ridge
Posts: 654
Thanked 280 Times in 95 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul View Post
I've made eye contact with pedestrians before, so I can relate to that one... but I can't relate to the defensive driving one at all. In what circumstances would you ever make eye contact with another driver, especially when related to defensive driving?

The only scenario I can even think of is looking over at the car beside you while stopped at a light... but can't think of any instance where I would make eye contact while actually driving.
Your saying you dont try to make eye contact with other drivers at uncontrolled intersections, or 4 way stops? Parking lots? Flashing reds? Turning right to make sure the dumbass turning left doesn’t pull a double lane change and hit you? People are a lot easier to read if you can catch there eyes, and they become more aware of you and what your doing, as well as you can read if they are about to pull an idiot much better that way.
91civicZC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 05:19 PM   #11
B&S Sexy mod
 
stevo911_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,522
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91civicZC View Post
People are a lot easier to read if you can catch there eyes, and they become more aware of you and what your doing, as well as you can read if they are about to pull an idiot much better that way.
Unless you're on a motorcycle, they'll look straight at you and not see you

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
You can refer to the other tinting thread for the study/article that I referenced, but yes, laminated glass does reduce the amount of airborne dust and glass fragments that are projected towards the driver, which is why some cars are now coming with laminated safety glass for the front side windows.
Something else to think about: tempered (safety) glass fragments arent very sharp (they do have a bit of an edge, but they're nothing like annealed or untempered). Film affects the way the glass breaks, so if you were to get hit from the side and put your head through the side window I would MUCH rather have straight up tempered glass than lammi, or a combo there of.
I would also much rather have a superficial scratch on the surface of my eye than have a broken neck
stevo911_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 05:32 PM   #12
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo911_ View Post
Something else to think about: tempered (safety) glass fragments arent very sharp (they do have a bit of an edge, but they're nothing like annealed or untempered). Film affects the way the glass breaks, so if you were to get hit from the side and put your head through the side window I would MUCH rather have straight up tempered glass than lammi, or a combo there of.
I would also much rather have a superficial scratch on the surface of my eye than have a broken neck
I don't see how your head would get stuck in the glass. If you hit it, it should simply fold away to the outside. Curtain air bags also provide a protective barrier between the face and glass.

From a document referenced in my post here

Quote:
Source http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv.../07-0101-W.pdf

Page 9:

When tempered glass shatters in collisions, it is
usually stressed under the conditions of bending or
shock loading, and can shower fragments into the
occupant space. Laminated glazing spalls and creates
small, even dust-like, fragments. However, the
quantity of laminated glass fragments detaching from
the polymer laminate is, in general, less than 1% of
that from tempered glazing.
In one side collision with
fractured tempered glazing, a woman complained to
her physician of persistent eye irritation. This lead to
an X-ray examination that indicated that a fragment
was lodged behind the eyeball itself and rested
against the optic nerve.

....
Page 11:
Thus, for each of the three stated FMVSS205 purposes,
laminated safety glazing has been shown to be the
superior material for side window applications when
compared to tempered safety glazing.

Quote:
Severy and Snowden [54] conducted glazing tests
and reported that, “Subsequent examination of high
speed movies of these experiments revealed that
tempered glass fragments may move as clusters, an
inch or two across the long axis, so that the comment
concerning hazard arising from tempered glass
weight should be modified. It was also observed in
collecting the fragments that while many particles are
cube-like, as described by other investigators, most
were by no means free of sharp points or edges,
making them very difficult to handle without cutting
one's hands.”
Yudenfriend and Clark [57] found in
door impact testing that 20-40% of the glass
fragments flew inward toward the occupant survival
space, and that they entered that space at velocities as
high as 23 km/hr (14 mph). The speed, size, shape,
and sharpness of tempered glass fragments explain
why some shards have been found to penetrate skin
and skull and even enter the brain
[57]. Citations
regarding skull penetration of glazing fragments refer
exclusively to tempered fragments, rather than to the
annealed fragments produced by laminated glass
[50;24].
Those are direct quotes from a document found on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website.

Please find me a study that supports the belief that tinted glass is a hazard when it is broken.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 12:42 AM   #13
B&S Sexy mod
 
stevo911_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,522
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Your quotes are talking about laminated glass designed and engineered with safety in mind [they're two thinner panes of glass laminated with a layer of PVB (generally speaking) sandwiched in between] I dont know if the glass they're testing is annealed, tempered or what, but the laminated safety glass is completely reengineered and a totally different animal than tint film on tempered.

Most window tint film is made of polyester. Guess what they make security window film out of? Polyester
You can beat the crap out of a piece of glass with security film on it with a crowbar and it wont break. Security films go from ~100 micrometers thick up, tint films sit around 50 micrometers, somehow I think theres the potential for increased resilience in the glass with essentially half a layer of security film
stevo911_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:25 AM   #14
Retired Traffic Cop
 
skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nanoose Bay, BC
Posts: 9,023
Thanked 115 Times in 66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Skidmark, you sure know how to open the pot for stirring
Actually, I thought that the topic had been beaten to death in this forum when I posted the article. It wasn't on my web site and I felt that it needed to be, so it became the topic of the week.
__________________
Have you ever met anyone that would admit to being less than a better than average driver ??

Learn more at DriveSmartBC
skidmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:27 AM   #15
Retired Traffic Cop
 
skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nanoose Bay, BC
Posts: 9,023
Thanked 115 Times in 66 Posts
If you are talking tint built into the glass instead of applying it like a film, the glass needs to conform to ANSI Standard Z26, which means that front side glass must be grades AS-1, AS-2, AS-10 or AS-11.
__________________
Have you ever met anyone that would admit to being less than a better than average driver ??

Learn more at DriveSmartBC
skidmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 09:23 AM   #16
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo911_ View Post
Your quotes are talking about laminated glass designed and engineered with safety in mind
Yes, they are. They also include discussion regarding tempered safety glass and the hazards it can present to the driver when broken.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 09:26 AM   #17
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
jlenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 3,562
Thanked 330 Times in 163 Posts
Now that I'm looking for it, I can't find the article. It was a few years ago, how a teenager tinted his front side windows, got T-boned, and was basically decapitated by the window tint. The window frame kept the glass in place, the tint holding the glass bits in place sliced thru his neck.

But you know what? It doesn't f'n matter if I can't find it or not. You know why? Because tinting the front windows is illegal, period. End of discussion.
__________________
Don't be the next RS.net statistic - If you drink, don't drive. You'll lose your licence, and the rest of us will laugh at you.
jlenko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 09:40 AM   #18
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenko View Post
Now that I'm looking for it, I can't find the article. It was a few years ago, how a teenager tinted his front side windows, got T-boned, and was basically decapitated by the window tint. The window frame kept the glass in place, the tint holding the glass bits in place sliced thru his neck..
What about vehicles without framed windows?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenko View Post
But you know what? It doesn't f'n matter if I can't find it or not. You know why? Because tinting the front windows is illegal, period. End of discussion.
It is permitted in the majority of US states as well as in other industrialized first world countries. Surely the same film cannot be considered deadly in Canada while in the US it is perfectly safe.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 11:01 AM   #19
B&S Sexy mod
 
stevo911_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,522
Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenko View Post
Now that I'm looking for it, I can't find the article. It was a few years ago, how a teenager tinted his front side windows, got T-boned, and was basically decapitated by the window tint. The window frame kept the glass in place, the tint holding the glass bits in place sliced thru his neck.
that was common when they first introduced laminated winshields.
I think it was something to do with the layer of PVB being too thin so if you hit the windshield with your head it would push trough the windshield and you'd get a nice glass collar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
It is permitted in the majority of US states as well as in other industrialized first world countries. Surely the same film cannot be considered deadly in Canada while in the US it is perfectly safe.
Laws arent perfect, they may have other reasoning behind it. Look at our cellphone laws that are coming into play for example, hands free devices produce almost the same amount of drivers distraction as holding the cellphone, yet they're only banning having the phone in hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Yes, they are. They also include discussion regarding tempered safety glass and the hazards it can present to the driver when broken.
I looked through it briefly, they overexagerate how sharp tempered glass is for starters. Advocating aftermarket tint film is safer than leaving your windows as is is the same idea as advocating adding a 4 or 5 point racing harness in an otherwise stock car because its safer. You may have some benefits in some areas, but theres potentially huge tradeoffs in another.
Jlenko pointed out something I'd forgotten about
Having the shrapnel effect from a broken tempered unit will generally speaking result in fairly minor injuries. In a more serious side impact where you put your head through the side window (providing in breaks with similar force) the window can hold together and get the glass aside from where your head goes through it and badaboom, glass collar.

Last edited by stevo911_; 11-21-2009 at 11:15 AM.
stevo911_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 10:51 PM   #20
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
jlenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 3,562
Thanked 330 Times in 163 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
It is permitted in the majority of US states as well as in other industrialized first world countries. Surely the same film cannot be considered deadly in Canada while in the US it is perfectly safe.
Oh, come on. Let's compare other useless laws while you're at it... drug possession nets you a jail term in the US. Distribution equals the death penalty in some states.

Have you ever smoked pot? Or had friends that did? Would you prefer to go to the USA and abide by the same laws they have there, putting yourself in detention or your friends.. or to death?

C'mon.. if you want side window tint THAT BAD... go move there, and stop crying about it here.
__________________
Don't be the next RS.net statistic - If you drink, don't drive. You'll lose your licence, and the rest of us will laugh at you.
jlenko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 11:06 PM   #21
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenko View Post
Oh, come on. Let's compare other useless laws while you're at it... drug possession nets you a jail term in the US. Distribution equals the death penalty in some states.

Have you ever smoked pot? Or had friends that did? Would you prefer to go to the USA and abide by the same laws they have there, putting yourself in detention or your friends.. or to death?

C'mon.. if you want side window tint THAT BAD... go move there, and stop crying about it here.
Nope. Couldn't care less about their drug laws.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 02:16 AM   #22
The RS Freebie guru
 
InvisibleSoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East Vancouver
Posts: 22,029
Thanked 2,489 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91civicZC View Post
Your saying you dont try to make eye contact with other drivers at uncontrolled intersections, or 4 way stops? Parking lots? Flashing reds? Turning right to make sure the dumbass turning left doesn’t pull a double lane change and hit you? People are a lot easier to read if you can catch there eyes, and they become more aware of you and what your doing, as well as you can read if they are about to pull an idiot much better that way.
Um... no? You can clearly enough that you can make eye contact with a driver that's across the intersection? Hmm, interesting. No, I've never done that.
InvisibleSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 09:40 AM   #23
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul View Post
Um... no? You can clearly enough that you can make eye contact with a driver that's across the intersection? Hmm, interesting. No, I've never done that.
You never look at other drivers to make sure they have seen you before making a move that could put you directly in their path of travel? I find it hard to believe you have never been involved in a collision.
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 11:13 AM   #24
The RS Freebie guru
 
InvisibleSoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East Vancouver
Posts: 22,029
Thanked 2,489 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
You never look at other drivers to make sure they have seen you before making a move that could put you directly in their path of travel? I find it hard to believe you have never been involved in a collision.
I look at their vehicle to see what they're going to do, but definitely fall short of making eye contact.

I've driven like a dozen years and have Roadstar. I don't think I've even been close to getting into a collision as a result of not making eye contact or because of a misjudgement of what someone else is going to do.
InvisibleSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 03:34 PM   #25
I *Fwap* *Fwap* *Fwap* to RS
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,506
Thanked 102 Times in 61 Posts
I usually only make eye contact when I'm a pedestrian or if I'm turning right and there's a pedestrian. In my car, I don't usually make eye contact with someone in another car. I will look and see if the driver looked my way or not sometimes depending on the situation or look for signs from the driver, but never have eye had to make eye contact with another driver while driving. However, I do not like it when people have front window tint as I can't see them, even as a pedestrian, I can't always tell if the person sees me or not.
wing_woo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net