Swiss ban mosque minarets in surprise vote

[impactX]

Originally Posted by Jah Gekko

The sad reality is that far right parties in the EU are also been supported by non-whites because of their hatred towards Muslims. I have friends and family in the UK that want to leave the UK because of Muslims. I've had visitors from the UK openly make racist comments about Muslims infront of me and how much they hate them.

Just to clarify a point: Muslim isn't a race.

[Harvey Specter]

Well you know what I mean.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

June 2009 national geographic. Educate yourself.

its about the exodus right? there's been reports by the BBC and papers by european profs that said the exodus was due to poverty for everyone there, not just christians but the muslims as well.. however the christians had more money to get out. that as well as the violence brought upon by israel (remember they also forced an exodus of christians etc)

however there seems to be another argument which blames the ottoman empire, etc, this argument is taken up more by america and israeli news media etc

so its not really a matter of "educating myself" but rather a "who do you want to believe" as there's two sides to the argument which seems to be British Scholars or America/Israel

[seakrait]

federal popular initiative started with 100,000 minimum signatures leads to national referendum. the initiative needed a double-majority to win and did. seems extremely democratic to me, more so than what we have here in Canada where the popular vote isn't necessarily the winning vote.

not that i'm agreeing with the initiative itself, mind you, but i do find their democratic process rather fascinating.

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

its about the exodus right? there's been reports by the BBC and papers by european profs that said the exodus was due to poverty for everyone there, not just christians but the muslims as well.. however the christians had more money to get out. that as well as the violence brought upon by israel (remember they also forced an exodus of christians etc)

however there seems to be another argument which blames the ottoman empire, etc, this argument is taken up more by america and israeli news media etc

so its not really a matter of "educating myself" but rather a "who do you want to believe" as there's two sides to the argument which seems to be British Scholars or America/Israel

my brother who is super religious (greek orthodox) went on a religious honeymoon to jordan, egypt, israel, etc.... and said that when he was in jordan our spiritual father (a bishop in an area of greece) was being spat on by zionists. alot of people seem to forget that there is a huge christian arab population... they just usally automatically assume muslim.

[Eastwood]

Islam is a violent religion. I must be the only one who thinks this goes beyond skin color.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

my brother who is super religious (greek orthodox) went on a religious honeymoon to jordan, egypt, israel, etc.... and said that when he was in jordan our spiritual father (a bishop in an area of greece) was being spat on by zionists. alot of people seem to forget that there is a huge christian arab population... they just usally automatically assume muslim.

ah, yeah the arab jews experience racism as well from the european jews which is ridiculous since arabs are historically the first to become jews. hell they were researching a weapon they got from south africa that they wanted to use to target arabs.. regardless that it would kill their own

[StylinRed]

somewhat of an update

Vatican and Muslims condemn Swiss minaret ban vote


One of four minarets in Switzerland

There are only four minarets in Switzerland

Religious leaders across the world have criticised Switzerland's referendum vote to ban the building of minarets.

The Vatican joined Muslim figureheads from Indonesia and Egypt, as well as Switzerland, in denouncing the vote as a blow to religious freedom.

France's FM Bernard Kouchner expressed shock at the ban which, he said, showed "intolerance" and should be reversed.

But European right-wing groups welcomed the result, calling for other countries to take similar measures.

More than 57.5% of Swiss voters and 22 out of 26 cantons - or provinces - voted in favour of the ban on Sunday.

The proposal had been put forward by the Swiss People's Party (SVP), the largest party in parliament, which said minarets were a sign of Islamisation.

'Expression of intolerance'

The Vatican on Monday endorsed a statement by the conference of Swiss Bishops criticising the vote for heightening "the problems of cohabitation between religions and cultures".

Egypt's Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa described the ban as an insult to the feelings of the Muslim community in Switzerland and elsewhere.

Gavin Hewitt
Much of the concern is based on fear... There are only four minarets in Switzerland but there are widely-held concerns of society dividing into 'parallel communities'.
Gavin Hewitt

Gavin Hewitt's blog on Europe
Send us your comments
Minaret vote: Your views
Tough debate to follow Swiss ban

Sunday's surprise result also prompted dismay from secular leaders in Europe.

"I am a bit shocked by this decision," Mr Kouchner told France's RTL radio on Monday. "It is an expression of intolerance and I detest intolerance.

"I hope the Swiss will reverse this decision quickly."

But Marine Le Pen, the deputy-leader of France's far-right National Front, praised the outcome, and said France should now hold a wider referendum on multiculturalism.

"The elites should stop denying the hopes and fears of European peoples who, without opposing religious freedom, reject ostentatious symbols forced on them by politico-religious Muslim groups, often verging on provocation," she was quoted as saying by Agence France Presse.

In Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands, anti-immigrant movements called on their own governments to debate similar measures.

"What can be done in Switzerland, can be done here," said Geert Wilders, the head of the Freedom Party in the Netherlands.

Meanwhile Roberto Calderoli, a member of Italy's Northern League, which is part of the country's ruling coalition, said: "Switzerland is sending us a clear signal: yes to bell towers, no to minarets."

In recent years, countries across Europe have been debating how best to integrate Muslim populations.

France focused on the headscarf, while in Germany there was controversy over plans to build one of Europe's largest mosques.

Government ignored

The vote is very bad news for the Swiss government which fears unrest among the Muslim community, says the BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Bern.
Geert Wilders
Wilders welcomed the ban and called for the Netherlands to follow suit

The Swiss government had opposed the ban, saying it would harm Switzerland's image, particularly in the Muslim world.

Voters worried about rising immigration - and with it the rise of Islam - had ignored the government's advice, our correspondent adds.

The government said it accepted the decision, and that the construction of new minarets would no longer be permitted.

Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf said: "Concerns [about Islamic fundamentalism] have to be taken seriously.

"However, a ban on the construction of new minarets is not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies."

She sought to reassure Swiss Muslims, saying the decision was "not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture".

'Major problems'

Switzerland is home to some 400,000 Muslims and has just four minarets.

After Christianity, Islam is the most widespread religion in Switzerland, but it remains relatively hidden.
Bernard Kouchner, file pic from November 2009
Kouchner said he hoped the Swiss would reverse the decision

There are unofficial Muslim prayer rooms, and planning applications for new minarets are almost always refused.

Supporters of a ban claimed that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and a legal system - Sharia law - which are incompatible with Swiss democracy.

But others say the referendum campaign incited hatred. On Thursday the Geneva mosque was vandalised for the third time during the campaign, according to local media.

Amnesty International said the vote violated freedom of religion and would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.

The president of Zurich's Association of Muslim Organisations, Tamir Hadjipolu, told the BBC: "This will cause major problems because during this campaign mosques were attacked, which we never experienced in 40 years in Switzerland.

"Islamaphobia has increased intensively."

Sunday's referendum was held after the SVP collected 100,000 signatures from voters within 18 months calling for a vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385893.stm



long read

[Jsunu]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

Pol pot, hitler, Lenin, stalin, mao
/thread
Posted via RS Mobile

did you actually read my post?

[The7even]

Originally Posted by Eastwood

Islam is a violent religion. I must be the only one who thinks this goes beyond skin color.

You're one stupid person.

[The7even]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

If Islam doesn't want to be seen in a bad light it needs to condemn these actions and speak out against them to hopefully prevent similar things from happening in the future.

That's what I'm trying to explain to StylinRed and michael, who are really quick to defend anything Islam related without actually looking inward and asking the question 'are we also to blame' .

The two are like my mother who quickly jump to comparing christian faults to muslim faults almost immediately.
Stop that fucking shit, you're not some backward village people , are you?

Be open minded and ready to take criticism and when you're criticized, look how you can fucking improve your self as a muslim and NOT try to find a way to say "but look dood , christians do it too"
I'm so tired of that shit.

[The7even]

Originally Posted by Jah Gekko

The sad reality is that far right parties in the EU are also been supported by non-whites because of their hatred towards Muslims. I have friends and family in the UK that want to leave the UK because of Muslims. I've had visitors from the UK openly make racist comments about Muslims infront of me and how much they hate them.

I'm not surprised.. I wouldn't want to live with those motherfuckers either.
I've seen the shit they do. They live in England, a Christian nation, and they try to impose their own laws onto the people..
The Quran it self states that if one is living in a foreign land, with foreign laws and customs, he/she is to abide by them.

If I were in charge, I would kick those faggots and send them back to pakistan or whereever they fucking came from.

They hold up signs that say 'england will burn'...
YOU'RE LIVING IN ENGLAND ASSHOLE!

Back in durka durka land he'd be hanged for saying shit like that..


I guess my case in point is.. don't ever, under any circumstances give freedom to a bunch of retarded apes.

[bengy]

They need to stop allowing immigration from middle eastern countries.

[Ferra]

I don't think the European "hate" muslim or middle-eastern people..it is just that these immigrants often come to their land, but instead of contributing and abiding to the country and its culture, they come here trying to change someone else culture into their own. (Look at Canada, we can't even have christmas tree in some places because it offends these people.)
To top it off, the majority of the middle-eastern population in Europe are refugees that leeches off the system instead of contributing to it.

So the vote turn out really isn't surprising. No one likes to have their culture and heritage eroded by some group of immigrants coming here seeking refugees.

If you want to stay at someone's house, you follow their rule. If you don't like the rule, move somewhere else.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Ferra

I don't think the European "hate" muslim or middle-eastern people..it is just that these immigrants often come to their land, but instead of contributing and abiding to the country and its culture, they come here trying to change someone else culture into their own. (Look at Canada, we can't even have christmas tree in some places because it offends these people.)
To top it off, the majority of the middle-eastern population in Europe are refugees that leeches off the system instead of contributing to it.

So the vote turn out really isn't surprising. No one likes to have their culture and heritage eroded by some group of immigrants coming here seeking refugees.

If you want to stay at someone's house, you follow their rule. If you don't like the rule, move somewhere else.

The reason why Europe has a large influx of Indians and middle-easterns, asians is due to their colonial past... they went to these nations to leech off of them as a result (mainly with Indians) they're let into europe. unlike the colonialst most of the immigrants aren't "leeches"

Europe is just reaping what it sowed

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

holy fucking shit you are a dumbass.

GOVERNMENTS, have been responsible for more murders/genocide than any ONE religion TO DATE.

yeah but there were a lot less people to kill back then.

and i bet if christians had nukes back then, there would be a lot more dead people hahaha.

as time went on, there were a lot more of us, and we had weapons that were a lot more efficient at... well, doing what weapons do.



i bet if a crusade happened with today's technology, they would wipe out more people in one crusade than all wars in all of mankind combined.

you know what though, i don't really fucking care. I have come to accept that we humans, as much as we want world peace, or whatever, will never be able to achieve that until the day we have learnt to master ourselves, and become our own gods. We still obey the our natural instincts, we still obey the millions of years of evolutionary programming instilled in us.

we're the apex predators of earth, our world. we are the tip and edge of the sword, we are bred killing machines. humans are in the business of destruction, it is the destiny of our race. to obliterate our enemies, and when they run out, we kill each other. Until the day we can reprogram ourselves, and, like i said, become our own gods, and worship ourselves, we're going to keep killing each other, or whatever is out there to kill.

as one person, we're not very good at causing trouble. but when banded together, we love destruction. and it's too bad, cuz we're socially programmed to be very sociable and want to be part of groups.


oh and as for the topic, u know what, i don't really fucking care cuz they're on the other side of the world, i'd rather spend my effort trying to figure out how to get surround sound working while playing left 4 dead 2 on my big screen tv, than worrying about a few more churches going up with moon crescents on top of them instead of crosses.

[Meowjin]

^add me to steam.