Mercedes tip-shift design?

[124Y]

1st off, this is not a rant or complaint. I'm working on a project in school about interaction and user experience, specifically focused on the nuances of user-subject interactivity, so I need you guys to chime in with the context of user-experience in mind.

I'm simply wondering why Mercedes decide to use the standard automatic shifting layout for cars like the SLR 722S instead of redesigning something that creates a more sporty driving experience for the drivers? My topic has to be focused very specifically on a part, so I picked the automatic gear shifter in the SLR 722S with the focus on its "manual" mode.

IMO, it may be "unique" and may be simpler to the average driver who uses the vehicle for transportation purposes, but for those who are after the sportiness and the driving experience, it's not working out. In a C-class? Sure, why not. Not everything in the car has to be designed with "sportiness" in mind. It fits the paradigm of the "P R N D" auto box.
In a SLR 722S? Unacceptable IMO.



The target users of the 722S are those with a great amount of wealth (ballers) and sports car enthusiasts. Therefore, the design of this car should be luxurious and sporty. Now, these 2 attributes may conflict each other in situations such as the car being filled with all these luxurious shit, so the car becomes an obese motherfucker. If you take too much shit out to save weight for better acceleration and cornering ability, the car may become too stripped out to satisfy the ballers.

I don't see how shifting "sideways" is contributing to the car being "sporty" or "luxurious". It also takes away the "Gestalt" and metaphor of using a stick-shift simply because when driving a manual car, you shift by pushing and pulling the shift knob forward and backward. Tipping the shifter left and right feels unnatural, as it breaks away from the standard gear-shift pattern and it defies ergonomics (pushing forward and pulling backward is way easier for the human body).

The SMG shifter in a E92 M3 definitely suits its target users. The neutral position of the gear shifter sits in the middle, so the driver can shift manually by pushing up and down from the neutral position. It makes sense, since when you're accelerating, you're being pushed back so you should be pulling when you shift; when you slow down, vice versa. The shifter is also fairly short, mimicking the feel of a sporty short-shifter. IMO, this offers the driver way more "sportiness" than the one in the 722S.


In the Ferrari F430, there is no "gear lever" for the driver to use, so the drivers are bound to stick with the paddle shifters. Obviously, Ferrari and Pininfarina designed the car for the driver to interact mainly with the paddles. The design hierarchy is clear. It also suits the intended target users (sports car enthusiasts) since paddle shifters give the driver more control over the vehicle since it keeps both of the driver's hands on the steering wheel. The paddle shifters contribute to the user's experience by its interaction with the driver.


Even though the current paradigm is that a lot of wealthy individuals drive expensive sports cars for its status symbol (not for the driving experience), cars like the SLR 722S is designed with sporty driving experience at a higher priority than luxurious driving experience. The car may be considered "tamed" compared to cars like the LP670SV, but it's definitely not a C300. Maybe Mercedes Benz should put more effort in evaluating user experience.

What do you guys think?

[hk20000]

I don't think you can say moving the shift stick sideways as not being "gestalt" (yeah I'm from siat too fuck me)

because in manual gear changes there's still sideways action and the left side of the H pattern is always of lower number than those on the right?

[bimmer91]

The target market for people looking to buy a 500k+ mercedes don't want manual, they want a nice car to look cool in without having to do much work > automatic.
What kinda class is this for Marketing or something..............

[threezero]

I agree with 124y the sideways shifting thing is so weird. In fact it frustrates me so much when i drive my parents benz i just leave it in D, they have a e320 so i though it made this way because 99% of the ppl driving these cars wouldn't notice or care, but putting it in the SLR????

On the other hand all the other cars i have came across even the most unsporty ones that have sport shit auto utilize the logical and comfortable up down shifting maybe mercedes is doing this just to stand out but in a bad way.

btw anybody know if there is a way to get out of manual shift mode in auto benz without going to N than back to D? I couldn't seen to figure it out, ask my dad and he told me it made this way so you only try the manual shifting once and never use it again and thus not break anything

[ilvtofu]

^I think if you keep shifting to the right it'll go back into D
In the GL320CDI if you use the paddles and shift to M6 and press it once more it drops into D

Oh on that note too, mercedes has some silly looking paddle shifters on the GL/ML/some other models

[Jeffield]

On the Mercedes do you have big paddle shifter? Or the little ones on the side?

If so just hold the right side shifter all the way down and it will go back to D

if it's from the -D+ thing on the gear box then you push it to towards + and there you go

also I use the paddle shifters regularly and if you want to have a little kick or to pass a car hold down the opposite side and it will go to the lowest gear possible

if it's not in M mode and just saying D1 to D7 just floor it and it will change gear before the redline


Also Mercedes has paddle shifters on top of the side shifting

Originally Posted by threezero

I agree with 124y the sideways shifting thing is so weird. In fact it frustrates me so much when i drive my parents benz i just leave it in D, they have a e320 so i though it made this way because 99% of the ppl driving these cars wouldn't notice or care, but putting it in the SLR????

On the other hand all the other cars i have came across even the most unsporty ones that have sport shit auto utilize the logical and comfortable up down shifting maybe mercedes is doing this just to stand out but in a bad way.

btw anybody know if there is a way to get out of manual shift mode in auto benz without going to N than back to D? I couldn't seen to figure it out, ask my dad and he told me it made this way so you only try the manual shifting once and never use it again and thus not break anything

Posted via RS Mobile

[124Y]

Originally Posted by hk20000

I don't think you can say moving the shift stick sideways as not being "gestalt" (yeah I'm from siat too fuck me)

because in manual gear changes there's still sideways action and the left side of the H pattern is always of lower number than those on the right?

Well, I took account of that too, but I figured that majority of the movement is up and down even from 2nd gear to 3rd gear in a manual car. You're in SIAT too? what year?

[124Y]

Originally Posted by bimmer91

The target market for people looking to buy a 500k+ mercedes don't want manual, they want a nice car to look cool in without having to do much work > automatic.
What kinda class is this for Marketing or something..............

The 722S is not designed for people to look cool in. People may BUY it to look cool in (like rich kids buying M3s to look cool in), but that's not what it's designed for.

[hk20000]

Originally Posted by 124Y

Well, I took account of that too, but I figured that majority of the movement is up and down even from 2nd gear to 3rd gear in a manual car. You're in SIAT too? what year?

I'm getting the hell out of there this Xmas.

[threezero]

Originally Posted by Jeffield

On the Mercedes do you have big paddle shifter? Or the little ones on the side?

If so just hold the right side shifter all the way down and it will go back to D

if it's from the -D+ thing on the gear box then you push it to towards + and there you go

also I use the paddle shifters regularly and if you want to have a little kick or to pass a car hold down the opposite side and it will go to the lowest gear possible

if it's not in M mode and just saying D1 to D7 just floor it and it will change gear before the redline


Also Mercedes has paddle shifters on top of the side shifting






Posted via RS Mobile

no is a older e class no paddle shifter, hell i help my parent change out a burn bulb today and found out they didn't even get the hid

so how to get it out of shit mode with just the shifter? i though move it to the right it will upshit left will downshift? so i keep holding to the right till it snaps out of it? or doing a combination of different things? either way that's stupid and inconvenient i can see why my parent never uses it

[124Y]

Originally Posted by threezero

I agree with 124y the sideways shifting thing is so weird. In fact it frustrates me so much when i drive my parents benz i just leave it in D, they have a e320 so i though it made this way because 99% of the ppl driving these cars wouldn't notice or care, but putting it in the SLR????

On the other hand all the other cars i have came across even the most unsporty ones that have sport shit auto utilize the logical and comfortable up down shifting maybe mercedes is doing this just to stand out but in a bad way.

Good to see my logic isn't flawed.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

benz would never make manual or paddle shift like ferraris, even when you get to SLR its still automatic tranny.

[Prostrho]

This isn't as bad as Porsche still using +/- button for their PDK.

Cause seriously.. its a torque converter auto.. its not fun to shift.. leave it in D.. even though its a sporty car, theres no fun in shifting it.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN

benz would never make manual or paddle shift like ferraris, even when you get to SLR its still automatic tranny.

Well, I don't think the 722S is meant to be as raw as a car like the Scuderia 16M, but it's definitely more performance oriented than the E92 M3. The 722S can still be "automatic", like driving a F430 in snow mode, but it's just not as sporty as the F430. Other parts of the 722S are very successful in achieving the sportiness feel, just not the shifter, especially the "sideway" tip-shift.

[ssonss1]

I agree, I prefer the "up and down" shifting in BMWs vs the "side to side" in Mercs. Personally, I always use the paddles if I want to drive in M mode, my guess is most people would do the same in the SLR.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Prostrho

This isn't as bad as Porsche still using +/- button for their PDK.

Cause seriously.. its a torque converter auto.. its not fun to shift.. leave it in D.. even though its a sporty car, theres no fun in shifting it.

I've thought about this dichotomy earlier. The 722S is designed to still have some practicality in it, like a lot of Porsche. A semi-automatic gives the driver more choices as they can simply put the shifter in "D" if they want to cruise, or they can use the manual tip-shift thing if they want to control the gears themselves (at least better than having no tip-shift like a conventional auto box). However, it's unfortunate that comfort, luxury, and practicality may not co-exist with sportiness and performance-oriented design.

That being said, if the "sideway tip-shifting" promotes absolute luxury, comfort, and practicality, fair enough. At least it's in a sports car that's designed to still have a sense of luxury. However, it's not luxurious nor is it sporty. IMO, they should redesign it so at least it's either luxurious or sporty.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by ssonss1

I agree, I prefer the "up and down" shifting in BMWs vs the "side to side" in Mercs. Personally, I always use the paddles if I want to drive in M mode, my guess is most people would do the same in the SLR.

Well, I haven't driven a 722S before, so I don't know how the paddle shifters feel. Hopefully it's not one of those tiny plastic toy-like ones.
Let's assume the paddle shifters on the 722S give great feedback and allow the user to be engaged with the driving experience akin to a race car. The "side to side" thing can be eliminated so the only thing the driver can use to change gears manually is via the paddle shifters like a Ferrari. By eliminating the poor design, it will eliminate the illogical shifting experience, hence, making the overall experience more genuine. But yea...if I want to do some spirited driving in a Mercedes, I'll stick to the paddle shifters.

[ssonss1]

Originally Posted by 124Y

Well, I haven't driven a 722S before, so I don't know how the paddle shifters feel. Hopefully it's not one of those tiny plastic toy-like ones.
Let's assume the paddle shifters on the 722S give great feedback and allow the user to be engaged with the driving experience akin to a race car. The "side to side" thing can be eliminated so the only thing the driver can use to change gears manually is via the paddle shifters like a Ferrari. By eliminating the poor design, it will eliminate the illogical shifting experience, hence, making the overall experience more genuine. But yea...if I want to do some spirited driving in a Mercedes, I'll stick to the paddle shifters.

[toyota86]

It's about cost. Its cheaper to design and make one mechanism to fit everything. And, it's about what works. If it works well and no one is complaining, there is no reason to change it.

That being said, I do not like the way mercedes auto shifts left and right. Also to note. The bmw smg shifter shifts with -ve being forward and +ve being backward. Not all auto cars that shift up/down are like this. Some have +ve as forward and -ve as backward. It takes getting used to.

Anyways, I prefer my cars manual.

[.Renn.Sport]

Originally Posted by 124Y

Well, I haven't driven a 722S before, so I don't know how the paddle shifters feel. Hopefully it's not one of those tiny plastic toy-like ones.
Let's assume the paddle shifters on the 722S give great feedback and allow the user to be engaged with the driving experience akin to a race car. The "side to side" thing can be eliminated so the only thing the driver can use to change gears manually is via the paddle shifters like a Ferrari. By eliminating the poor design, it will eliminate the illogical shifting experience, hence, making the overall experience more genuine. But yea...if I want to do some spirited driving in a Mercedes, I'll stick to the paddle shifters.

all paddles feels the same. they are all just a button behind the steering wheel, the gear change feels different becuz of the different transmission

the SLR is not really some special Mercedes, a lot of parts are just from the SL

and btw, the shifter's +/- is not really for spirited driving shifting, cuz it doesn't stay in full manual mode. that only works with the paddles

[.Renn.Sport]

Originally Posted by 124Y

I've thought about this dichotomy earlier. The 722S is designed to still have some practicality in it, like a lot of Porsche. A semi-automatic gives the driver more choices as they can simply put the shifter in "D" if they want to cruise, or they can use the manual tip-shift thing if they want to control the gears themselves (at least better than having no tip-shift like a conventional auto box). However, it's unfortunate that comfort, luxury, and practicality may not co-exist with sportiness and performance-oriented design.

That being said, if the "sideway tip-shifting" promotes absolute luxury, comfort, and practicality, fair enough. At least it's in a sports car that's designed to still have a sense of luxury. However, it's not luxurious nor is it sporty. IMO, they should redesign it so at least it's either luxurious or sporty.

porsche's tiptronic couldn't even be shifted at the gear lever since 996, you have to shift with the +/- buttons on the steering wheel
porsche only brought back gear lever +/- shift on the PDK. the steering wheel controls on the PDK is even more fucked up, push in to up shift and pull to down shift.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by toyota86

It's about cost. Its cheaper to design and make one mechanism to fit everything. And, it's about what works. If it works well and no one is complaining, there is no reason to change it.

That being said, I do not like the way mercedes auto shifts left and right. Also to note. The bmw smg shifter shifts with -ve being forward and +ve being backward. Not all auto cars that shift up/down are like this. Some have +ve as forward and -ve as backward. It takes getting used to.

Anyways, I prefer my cars manual.

True, it may save cost, but they're trying to save "cost" on like a $1/2million car? They can do it on the C250, but in the SLR 722S? If they are sacrificing driver experiencing for cost on a car like the 722S, I don't know wtf they're thinking. I'm sure not only will SLR722 owners complain, car enthusiasts like the majority of RS will probably complain. I know a lot of cars don't have the + on the bottom and the - on the top. In fact, the majority of the cars have it backwards. The only cars I've seen with the + on the bottom are the EVO X MR, Mazdas, and BMWs. Even the Audi R8 has the + on the top lol.
I prefer my cars manual too, but not all drivers do, and for my class we're not designing for ourselves lol.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by .Renn.Sport

all paddles feels the same. they are all just a button behind the steering wheel, the gear change feels different becuz of the different transmission

the SLR is not really some special Mercedes, a lot of parts are just from the SL

and btw, the shifter's +/- is not really for spirited driving shifting, cuz it doesn't stay in full manual mode. that only works with the paddles

It's impossible for every paddle to feel the same unless they're constructed from the same material, the buttons have the same spring rate, same traveling distance, same size, and positioned at the exact location for every car. Not to be anal, but every little detail counts. In fact, from personal experience, I can tell you not all paddle shifters feel the same. Some feel like plastic toys attached to the steering wheel, some feel way more sporty.
I've never said the SLR 722S is a "special" car or not. I'm using it as an example of a Mercedes car designed for sports car enthusiasts. If my project requires 2 examples, the SL will definitely be my other example.
I'm not sure on what you mean by not staying in full manual mode... I don't own a Mercedes... elaborate please :P?

Originally Posted by .Renn.Sport

porsche's tiptronic couldn't even be shifted at the gear lever since 996, you have to shift with the +/- buttons on the steering wheel
porsche only brought back gear lever +/- shift on the PDK. the steering wheel controls on the PDK is even more fucked up, push in to up shift and pull to down shift.

Kinda like this?:


That IS indeed fucked up

[hk20000]

I think they put the pedals there for a reason.

[boostfever]

Originally Posted by .Renn.Sport

the SLR is not really some special Mercedes, a lot of parts are just from the SL

stop talking out of your ass.