WIND Mobile: Officially Green Lighted for LAUNCH

[+Kardboard+]

Allow darthchilli and I to summarize for you all:

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

BTW iPhone only just recently passed Microsoft in October 2009:



Everyone should keep that in mind next time they want to talk about Windows Mobile's place in the North American marketplace.

ur WinMo love is great, but goodluck getting thru to a berry crowd here. WinMo maybe great in HK, and i kno it is, blame microsoft on not training the reps/dealers/CSRs well enuff to make an impact on the market.

I do kno theres alot of real estate/car salespeople still rely on WinMo when they need them SW that is windows only like blackbook

but slowly and surely, its moving towards RIM.

Again, microsoft failed to penetrate the market, also blame HTC for not giving support to northamerican carriers on behalf of thier products. It isnt until recently that HTC has been more active, but only because they see the Android being a viable product to attached to here in NA rather than winmo

[TRD Rs200]

they need more options for plans

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

ur WinMo love is great, but goodluck getting thru to a berry crowd here. WinMo maybe great in HK, and i kno it is, blame microsoft on not training the reps/dealers/CSRs well enuff to make an impact on the market.

I do kno theres alot of real estate/car salespeople still rely on WinMo when they need them SW that is windows only like blackbook

but slowly and surely, its moving towards RIM.

Again, microsoft failed to penetrate the market, also blame HTC for not giving support to northamerican carriers on behalf of thier products. It isnt until recently that HTC has been more active, but only because they see the Android being a viable product to attached to here in NA rather than winmo

The main part of my point was, with the 1700 MHz limitation, customers don't have a choice in acquiring one of the great WinMo phones that are out there. They are not allowed to be great.

And it doesn't just apply to WinMo either. People really like Android phones too, and hell even iPhone is being left out because of this.

Now I know it's not Wind's fault for "choosing" 1700, and they were apparently forced to use that frequency for some stupid reason. But the end result is, people have less choices. That's disturbs me more than anything else in life, not being able to choose what you want.

For me, Wind will be handy because I'll be able to sign up with them for a month if I visit home, instead of having to use disgustingly expensive prepaid cards.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The main part of my point was, with the 1700 MHz limitation, customers don't have a choice in acquiring one of the great WinMo phones that are out there. They are not allowed to be great.

And it doesn't just apply to WinMo either. People really like Android phones too, and hell even iPhone is being left out because of this.

Now I know it's not Wind's fault for "choosing" 1700, and they were apparently forced to use that frequency for some stupid reason. But the end result is, people have less choices. That's disturbs me more than anything else in life, not being able to choose what you want.

For me, Wind will be handy because I'll be able to sign up with them for a month if I visit home, instead of having to use disgustingly expensive prepaid cards.

i agree with u on this point

but to the general market, people want what is shoved down their throats(BB/iPhone) thus all the major players swear by this and its working fairly well

also, becuz the North American wireless market is so dull, theres no point in pushing ot a new bring in whatever u want strategy to use out networks becuz it just doesnt make us any money, also the fact that by subsidizing the hardware, we will make money off the end user. the honest truth is that it does take around 18months into the contract b4 rogers pockets your money

its lke the Bellus network, only allows northamerican 3g freq phones on the network as there is no support for the old

the wireless chasers will truely stick by big red green and it will nto change anytime soon.

[willystyle]

I can't determine how popular WIND will eventually be, or whether they can pull away many of the customers that the BIG 3 has gained from these years. One thing for certain is that, cellphone manufacturers will not adapt to the 1700mhz AWS frequency unless there is demand. Judging by the current US and Canadian market, the demand is not there yet.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by willystyle

I can't determine how popular WIND will eventually be, or whether they can pull away many of the customers that the BIG 3 has gained from these years. One thing for certain is that, cellphone manufacturers will not adapt to the 1700mhz AWS frequency unless there is demand. Judging by the current US and Canadian market, the demand is not there yet.

very good insight! but judging the fact that tmobile has alot of these devices, slowly there will be support. Nokia made the big jump with the n900, hopefully more will follow

[avinayyar]

You forgot SE X10.

1700Mhz AWS phones > http://bit.ly/730mTB

[goo3]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The main part of my point was, with the 1700 MHz limitation, customers don't have a choice in acquiring one of the great WinMo phones that are out there. They are not allowed to be great.

And it doesn't just apply to WinMo either. People really like Android phones too, and hell even iPhone is being left out because of this.

Now I know it's not Wind's fault for "choosing" 1700, and they were apparently forced to use that frequency for some stupid reason. But the end result is, people have less choices. That's disturbs me more than anything else in life, not being able to choose what you want.

For me, Wind will be handy because I'll be able to sign up with them for a month if I visit home, instead of having to use disgustingly expensive prepaid cards.

Europe/Asia's 2100 band is probably being used for something else. In any case, for spectrum allocation, we follow the US not Europe.

When you transmit on someone else's frequency, they track you down and give you a big fat fine or stick you in jail if you don't stop. It's not meant to be shared.

[SkinnyPupp]

I wonder how hard it would be for manufacturers to jus tmake their non-carrier exclusive phones support 1900/2100/1700. Triband 3G, is it really that difficult?

[Tim Budong]

as someone said, business wise, it doesnt justify the production due to only have 2 countries supporting the 1700mhz.

[SkinnyPupp]

That's why I was wondering how difficult it would be. Do they have to add a radio for each frequency? I guess so, if it doesn't make 'business sense' to make tri-3g-band phones.

[J____]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

the wind 9700 will not run 3g on fido/rogers. im not sure for overseas as i think it has 2100mhz, which is the standard for euro/apac

oic but i can still call if i plug in an asia sim right? just no 3g service?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by J____

oic but i can still call if i plug in an asia sim right? just no 3g service?

Like he said, you'll be on GSM/EDGE. For voice plans, Wind is suitable for any GSM phone that will work on Rogers' network.

[ienhz]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

BTW iPhone only just recently passed Microsoft in October 2009:

Everyone should keep that in mind next time they want to talk about Windows Mobile's place in the North American marketplace.

What? That it took Apple 2 years to accomplish what Microsoft needed over 6 to? That WM continues to lose market share every year even as smartphone sales rise? The only surprising fact is that WM has a higher share than Symbian. Unless MS pulls out a miracle with WM7, I fully expect RIM, Apple, Google to continue taking MS's market share.

EDIT: Btw, if you look at current/recent smartphone sales data, you'll see a wayyyy different picture than the chart you showed.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The main part of my point was, with the 1700 MHz limitation, customers don't have a choice in acquiring one of the great WinMo phones that are out there. They are not allowed to be great.

Did you cry when Canada went 1900 Mhz over 1800 Mhz too? The phones will come; Wind JUST launched yesterday. Ask how many people buy unlocked phones for any provider's customer base. Guarantee you it isn't even worth considering.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

No, I didn't know that companies were forced to use proprietary frequencies. It still makes no sense, and it still fucks over the consumers. Thanks for pointing that out to me, and not being a fucking idiot like the other moron that replied.

Ohh, you mean like how you like to reply to threads with your garbage and then disappear along with the posts when people call you out? Just taking a page out of your book Well, minus the disappearing, of course.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

It's just funny how he took all the valid points I made, ignored the one mistake I made, and focused on Windows Mobile phones. That's definitely palm-worthy

That was actually a response to your "crappy BlackBerry" comment and because I knew you used a WinMo phone. Part of it was actually being facetious considering how you treat other posters.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

That's why I was wondering how difficult it would be. Do they have to add a radio for each frequency? I guess so, if it doesn't make 'business sense' to make tri-3g-band phones.

not sure how construction goes for he phone freq, but it doesnt make business sense anyways

Originally Posted by ienhz

What? That it took Apple 2 years to accomplish what Microsoft needed over 6 to? That WM continues to lose market share every year even as smartphone sales rise? The only surprising fact is that WM has a higher share than Symbian. Unless MS pulls out a miracle with WM7, I fully expect RIM, Apple, Google to continue taking MS's market share.

WM is losing market share on north american soil, its kicking strong in europe/apac. i hate WinMo, but i cant disagree on the power of WinMo, I guess u are too dumb to realize this.

I already said above why Microsoft couldnt push WM in US and Canada, I will not type again

btw..yes WIND launched yesterday, but keep in mind, Tmobile has been runnin a 1700mhz network fr sometme now. Go to any import phone store in the US and they will ONLY recommend ATT, not that Tmobile sucks, but its just different network positioned differently than ATT

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

not sure how construction goes for he phone freq, but it doesnt make business sense anyways



WM is losing market share on north american soil, its kicking strong in europe/apac. i hate WinMo, but i cant disagree on the power of WinMo, I guess u are too dumb to realize this.

I already said above why Microsoft couldnt push WM in US and Canada, I will not type again

btw..yes WIND launched yesterday, but keep in mind, Tmobile has been runnin a 1700mhz network fr sometme now. Go to any import phone store in the US and they will ONLY recommend ATT, not that Tmobile sucks, but its just different network positioned differently than ATT

I fail to see why it doesn;t make business sense, at least for retail phones that aren't attached to carriers. Wouldn't they want to sell more phones? If adding a third frequency isn't prohibitively expensive, it only makes sense to do so. In fact, if there is a case to be made for this, it's the upcoming Google phone. Hopefully they do something like that, leading more to follow.

As for the troll, don't even bother. Just click fail and move on

[kayceeee]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Like he said, you'll be on GSM/EDGE. For voice plans, Wind is suitable for any GSM phone that will work on Rogers' network.

so basically anyone who doesnt need data/smartphone or 3G, and just needs voice, is able to use their own unlocked handset with WIND, its just if they wana use data with their unlocked phones, it either wont work at all or it'll just be on edge rather than 3g?

[J____]

if its on the same frequencies as tmobile, doesnt tmobile have iphone 3g support?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by J____

if its on the same frequencies as tmobile, doesnt tmobile have iphone 3g support?

I believe iPhone is only available for one carrier in the US

[+Kardboard+]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

That's why I was wondering how difficult it would be. Do they have to add a radio for each frequency? I guess so, if it doesn't make 'business sense' to make tri-3g-band phones.

Usually it's a different radio that supports more frequencies. Not so much difficult as whether a), the chip exists, or b), it's cost-effective to do so. Taking WIND's example, it seems from their plans that they're more of a North-American-centric kind of deal, so APAC/Euro support is not a priority for them or the manufacturers who are making their phones.

Originally Posted by J____

oic but i can still call if i plug in an asia sim right? just no 3g service?

In Asia? Depending on which WIND phone, it might even have 3G support elsewhere.

Originally Posted by ienhz

What?..........
Did you cry when Canada went 1900 Mhz over 1800 Mhz too? The phones will come; Wind JUST launched yesterday. Ask how many people buy unlocked phones for any provider's customer base. Guarantee you it isn't even worth considering............
Ohh, you mean like how you like to reply to threads with your garbage and then disappear along with the posts when people call you out? Just taking a page out of your book Well, minus the disappearing, of course.

No need to lay into the man. Are you the expert of all things mobile and have your finger on the pulse of the industry? If so, then why the heck are you here on REVscene and not ballin' in Dubai? All of us here only know a little bit of the big picture.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I fail to see why it doesn;t make business sense, at least for retail phones that aren't attached to carriers. Wouldn't they want to sell more phones? If adding a third frequency isn't prohibitively expensive, it only makes sense to do so. In fact, if there is a case to be made for this, it's the upcoming Google phone. Hopefully they do something like that, leading more to follow.

The phone market here is a wee bit different, operating mostly on subsidies. WIND is taking a different approach here by having people buy their phones outright, which is an absurd concept to most here. My guess is that it's too untried a model to justify jumping into it. See also the top of this post.

Originally Posted by kayceeee

so basically anyone who doesnt need data/smartphone or 3G, and just needs voice, is able to use their own unlocked handset with WIND, its just if they wana use data with their unlocked phones, it either wont work at all or it'll just be on edge rather than 3g?

Not 100% sure. Gotta Wait & See~~~....like that Utada Hikaru song. Wait, did I say that out loud?

Originally Posted by J____

if its on the same frequencies as tmobile, doesnt tmobile have iphone 3g support?

iPhone's only available on AT&T and it doesn't have AWS frequencies. T-Mobile USA is different from T-Mobile Everywhere Else. T-Mobile USA has 1900 Mhz GSM, 1700/2100 Mhz HSPA. T-Mobile Everywhere Else (i.e. Europe) has 900/1800 GSM, 900/2100 Mhz HSPA (mostly sure).

For true global compatibility, we would need:

GSM: 850/900/1800/1900 Mhz
UMTS/WCDMA/HSPA/HSPA+: 850/900/1700/1800/1900/2100 Mhz

I believe "lol" is an appropriate response here.

[willystyle]

As much as I would like to see WIND mobile be successful in Canada, the picture is quite bleak right now. It's not because their phone plans aren't attractive, in fact, they are, especially for the heavy users.

The problem with WIND will be their ability to convince phone manufacturers to produce the latest "must-have" phones in their frequency, which will be difficult, because they lack the customer base.

To put it into perspective, there's only 2 networks (T-moble, WIND) in NA running 1700 Mhz, and 6 major carriers (Rogers, Telus, Bell, Verizon, AT&T, and TracFone) running GSM/HSPA. I know T-mobile has their own GSM network too, but I won't include them just for statistic purposes.

From a Business sense, you want to promote your latest must-have handsets to the largest population that can reach your product, so that means phone manufacturers will implement chipsets that work for the GSM/HSPA networks. You can argue why they won't add additional frequencies to their chipsets. The solution is simple. COST. All of the GSM/HSPA wireless carriers don't run 1700/2100Mhz in their networks, so it's isn't cost-effective for them to implement this feature. They care less of the smaller customer base in other wireless networks if they can reach their handsets

So, it's very important that WIND and T-mobile can gain market share as that will dictate what handsets they will get, which ultimately decides whether they can overtake some of the customers that the existing wireless giants have.

T-mobile has been trying for years, and has not succeeded in this regard. Take a look at their phone lineup on their website, and you will understand what I mean.

[ienhz]

Originally Posted by +Kardboard+

No need to lay into the man. Are you the expert of all things mobile and have your finger on the pulse of the industry? If so, then why the heck are you here on REVscene and not ballin' in Dubai? All of us here only know a little bit of the big picture.

Maybe because he acts like he knows everything about every subject whenever it doesn't conform to his opinions? Have you ever seen the stuff he posts? I'd put him on my ignore list but then I'd miss out on too many gems.

I'll lay off SkinnyPupp. My points still stand. Has WinMo been losing market share in NA? Have consumers in NA had a dying need to buy unlocked phones? All my points come from historical trends and reports. They aren't exactly startling revelations. I'm not the one ostensibly claiming that Wind will be a failure because they "picked the wrong spectrum".

Anyways, I've overstayed my welcome. I'll keep my mouth shut now - at least, on issues that are off-topic

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by ienhz

Maybe because he acts like he knows everything about every subject whenever it doesn't conform to his opinions? Have you ever seen the stuff he posts? I'd put him on my ignore list but then I'd miss out on too many gems.

Anyways, I've overstayed my welcome. I'll keep my mouth shut now

constructive criticism is always key to success on these topics

thats all i will say. both of you have your points.
I stand behind the products i promote(ie. Rogers/Fido)

my views on Wind Mobile is similar to what willystyle just said.
At the same time, me and my small team of people have discussed this topic. WINDmobile is not a threat.

again, most of the sales staff can put together the blackberry plan with options to be cheaper than WIND monetary wise, yes their plans are unlimited, but at the same time, the average user uses just enough on what Rogers offers in terms of the $50 smartphone plan, and there are options on that plan without extra charge to make it worth while.

at the end of the day, consumers do not care how much money WIND has to back up their stance and company goals. Consumers want what is right for them.

WIND has done an excellent job on marketing their service so far, but the right salesperson in a store no matter what company they represent will be able to sell network reliability and service vs what WIND mobile is offering. To alot of us gadget chasers, WIND mobile just isn't the company for what we do with our phones.

What most people who understand the wireless industry will say this, if WIND were allow to build a 850/1900mhz network, they would, but this just isnt the case and they will fight for equality. Globalive, the parent company will push with their networks around the world

[+Kardboard+]

Originally Posted by willystyle

To put it into perspective, there's only 2 networks (T-moble, WIND) in NA running 1700 Mhz, and 6 major carriers (Rogers, Telus, Bell, Verizon, AT&T, and TracFone) running GSM/HSPA. I know T-mobile has their own GSM network too, but I won't include them just for statistic purposes.

Verizon is CDMA, although they are going the GSM path for 4G (LTE). Who's TracFone? They're a bit of an odd duckling with their SIM-locked phones and phone-locked SIMs, so I really wouldn't count them.

Besides, who the heck are they?