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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 12-15-2009, 06:04 PM   #1
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Left turns: Who would be at fault?

Basically, I got into an bit of a debate with a classmate over who's at fault when a driver is making a left turn at an intersection. His story was that on his N test that he recently passed, that as he was making a left turn at a busy intersection, a driver sped by just as he was going to begin his turn. He stopped in time, but at the end of the test, my classmate was told by the driver examiner that if he was hit, then the driver going straight through would be 100% at fault. I disputed that even if he WAS hit, my classmate would get partial fault as he was in the intersection at the time of the left turn, and he should have anticipated the speed of the oncoming car.

For the tl;dr version if Car A, making a left turn is hit by Car B that suddenly appeared in the intersection (ie. sped in), therefore Car B is 100% at fault for speeding into the intersection while Car A was beginning to make its turn.

I'm not trying to prove him wrong, but I would like to know who is at fault in this situation if it were happen to me again. I've seen a few threads where this was mentioned, and the driver hit seemed to get some fault.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:41 PM   #2
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its you're responsibility to make sure the intersection is clear before crossing oncoming traffic (left turners yield to straight through). If it was a stale yellow there'd be shared blame to some degreee
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:43 PM   #3
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http://www.drivesmartbc.ca/case-law/...v-moreno-munoz
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:24 AM   #4
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In just about every case I've ever heard... it's the person turning left who is at fault.

The problem is... people coming the opposite way (straight through..) may be speeding too much to safely stop. So if you start your turn on the yellow... and someone else blows through... you (the person turning left across them) are going to get smoked. If they're going too fast to stop for the light, do you think they're going to be able to stop for you? Not likely.

It's even worse with motorcycles. We all know the majority of young males love to travel at excessive speeds on their crotch rockets... including blowing very stale yellow lights... or even going around cars that have stopped for the light already. Then you turn left across them, you get T-boned by the bike.. and the biker is killed as they fly over your car (and several others, possibly...)..

Just wait til it's safe to turn left. The alternative isn't worth it.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:04 AM   #5
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When you're in the intersection waiting to make your turn and the light goes yellow/red, take your time to make sure the oncoming vehicles are stopped/going to stop. Even if the light has gone red and the other traffic's light is green, you still have the right of way and it is your responsibility to make a safe turn.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:12 AM   #6
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Yeah, that validates my belief that the L-turner is ALWAYS at fault.

Even if the "red light runner" would be partially found at fault (I understand that is possible but very unlikely), would that make you feel better from the hospital bed? And part of defensive driving is assuming some idiot is going to indeed run the light.

Everyone who's done riding school KNOWS not to run red lights, as T-boning L-turners is the #1 cause of death for riders if I remember correctly.
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:43 AM   #7
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just wait til you see that oncomign cars have slowed down enough, THEN make your turn. Doesn't matter if the light has turned red already.

That way 100% your guaranteed to make it safely. Even if one of the cars decides to run it at the last minute they'd have slowed down enough that, worst case scenario, they'll be able to slam on the brakes in time after realizing you're already turning and blocking his path.

It's like how when you make a right turn, and you see a car coming from the left who has his right turn signal on, people will say WAIT til the car turns before you turn because he might change his mind or maybe he left the signal on by accident. Well, it's just as safe to make your turn once you see that he has slowed down a fair amount (iono how to describe how much is enough, just based on experience). Because even if he did change his mind, there's no way he'll crash into you, he has slowed down enough to the point where your turn won't really cut him off.

Same idea here
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:56 PM   #8
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Classmate that debated the situation with me is stressing the point that he "suddenly" came from nowhere to cross in front of him, and failed to answer my question of the presence of a stop sign. Once again, he stressed the fact that the driver examiner told him that the person driving through would be 100% at fault. However, is the Driver Examiner a Claims Adjuster (if that is even the correct terminology)?

He's consistently stressing that point as if I'm 100% wrong.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:19 AM   #9
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there are probably some more facts about your friends driving test. First of all, the driving instructor is not an adjuster, and would not know the coverages and fault charts of ICBC. But, if your friend had turned left on a yellow for example, and the other guy suddenly appeared out of no where and hit him, your friend would be at fault. The person turning left HAS to yeild to the oncoming cars. When the light turns red, and the person turning left is in the middle of the intersection, then THEY have the right of way becasue they are required by law to clear the intersection whenever safe. So if your friend was trying tog et out of the intersection after the light had turned red, and the other guy ran the red light and hit him, then the other guy would be at fault. provided there are witnesses and your friend can prove that the light was red at the time.
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:47 AM   #10
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as per the case law skidmark posted. here's the actual law.


When a vehicle is in an intersection and its driver intends to turn left, the driver must yield the right of way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction that is in the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but having yielded and given a signal as required by sections 171 and 172, the driver may turn the vehicle to the left, and traffic approaching the intersection from the opposite direction must yield the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn.
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneringArtist View Post
He's consistently stressing that point as if I'm 100% wrong.
That's OK.. you can tell him we all think he's an idiot.
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