Terminating an Employee with Depression

[rageguy]

There is an employee at my workplace who is not suitable for the job (IT related). She does not have the skills to complete the tasks that are required of her. It has been 4 months into her work term and she has shown no signs of improvement or learning, even after lots of advices and training were given. She also has bad work attitude where she has refused to do work before with the reason of "But I don't want to do it, it's work". When advices were given to her after her frequent mistakes, she often questions the advice given and did not learn from it. All the tasks that she was doing ends up being worse, and some other employee will have to fix it up. In short, she is not someone we want.

The problem is that she is suffering from a medium case of depression. She has expressed to others how she likes working, and that working at this job is the only thing she has. It keeps her busy and not idling. If she idles, her mind will wander around and eventually leads to symptoms of depression. She is on medication as well. She even explained how she has no friends and that her colleagues are all she has.

She is definitely someone we want to terminate, but I am a bit concerned about the consequences. It'll probably make her depression worse, as she loses her only work in life and probably her colleague friends too (they are not her friends).

What to do? Fire or not fire? If fire, are we responsible for anything that happens resulting from it (depression symptoms worsening)?

[Gt-R R34]

It comes down to what's good for your company.

The statements made above are a little contradicting. "She likes to work, but refuses to work because it's work." So she contradicts herself.

I would highly recommend if you're sensitive to her needs is that you setup a doc for her to see. If she's willing too, but also let her know if she doesn't pick up her pace, she can/will be laid off.

Also, depending what you setup with her, her probationary period is 3 months or 6 months?

If i was the owner/manager of the department, you have to let her know what's up, be sensitive to her needs but if she can't work. In the end that will bring down the moral of your other staff as they have to take on more work load.

[Preemo]

Ultimatum. Tell her to shape up or ship out. You guys are a business in the end right? In the end it's all about the dollars and cents.

I would go as far as seeing what the company can do to look after her depression but it seems like she isn't the type of person to help herself.

It's not your guys' fault for her depression issues.

Of course, be sensitive about it, I am just talking like an asshole because in the end, if a company is spending thousands of dollars on an employee that isn't beneficial to anyone, than what's the point?

[TOS'd]

This may or may not help, but it's relevant.

My aunt works for a uni and her coworker had a case of mid life crisis/depression and basically she told him to shape up or ship out. He took time off, but they came to the conclusion of firing him. At the end of it all, the guy sued my aunt and the uni for some discrimination bs lol. Unfortunately I do not know who won the case.

[RacePace]

Fire, but I wouldn't state the reason as depression

[rageguy]

I wouldn't state the reason as depression for sure. I'm worried about two things: endangering herself, lawsuit against the company.

[NiceGirl]

she is unfit for the job - as in she doesn't want to do it and she makes lots of mistakes, even after coaching. in my opinion, that in itself is grounds for dismissal.

if she were a valuable asset, keep her, if not then ditch her.

[E N D L E S S S]

Hopefully this helps.. I learned this in my commercial law class. Failure to perform a reasonable task is a just cause for dismissal, which means she can be dismissed without notice. Actually, both disobedience and incompetence are just cause for dismissal. However, you have to be careful about how you went/go about doing this. It does sounds like you let her know immediately when it became apparent that her performance was unacceptable.. and gave her time to improve, which is good. If you had let her poor performance slide she may have been able to use the argument that the employer's conduct and acceptance lead her to believe that her level of performance was appropriate. Also, it doesn't sound like you gave her any raises or bonuses yet since she's only been employed for 4 months.. which is also good, because if you did it would make her potential argument argument very difficult to overcome if she were to raise a wrongful dismissal case. I guess another point would be if there was a formal contract stipulating termination clauses you would definitely have to honour those, but it doesn't sound like you do since you are posing this question.

And yeah, I don't think I would make any mention whatsoever of her depression.. since that's irrelevant in terms of why she is being dismissed.

[Keiichi]

you need to make sure you are documenting her performance and her unwilling attitude to doin her job. You need to make sure she's clear that she understands that she is borderline to getting fired/laid off because of her professional attitude towards her job is less than satisfactory. Make sure you make note of all the effort your company has put into training and giving her tools to succeed at her job, this way it will be very clear she was let go for legitimate reasons.

[too_slow]

Key words: "duty to accomdate"

As the employer, you are required to accomodate an employee for any 'disability' that may arise during their tenure. To save your ass (and the company's), you must show proof how you've resonably accomodated her disability : ie.. reduced work hours, send her in for treatment (if she's eligible for benefits), special work arrangements, etc etc.. The only way you can let her go with cause is to show that she refuses 'help' from the employer.

[too_slow]

If the company decides to let her go on the premise that 'she does not have the skills required for the job,' she can pull the 'failure to accomodate a disability' card on you.

BTW, is the position unionized?

[bcrdukes]

I did not read the entire thread nor the original post (just skimmed) but based on what I've seen at different work places and cases take place:

1. If your co-worker came into the job admitting to the company she suffers from depression and is taking medication, they have grounds to fire her on the basis of not performing her duties on the job or what is expected of her. Of course, this could get ugly so the Company would have to ensure that she is taking her medication (if that is the case.)

2. If she suddenly started suffering from depression now, she should be proactive and ask for short term/long term disability or seek some kind of help. The company needs to "accomodate" the employee as posted by too_slow. She is ultimately responsible for herself and her career. The company can still fire her upon the basis of not peforming her duties or what is expected of her. She needs to tell her immediate supervisor of her depression and seek medical attention. However, the Company would have to be very careful on how they put this together.

If this is a union position, then game the fuck over for the company.

[too_slow]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

If this is a union position, then game the fuck over for the company.

Not true! I have won a few cases with disability claims!

[SumAznGuy]

Like what Too_slow and BCR said, the company needs to be very careful with how they deal with her in this case.

Best thing to do is to document all the times you talked to her about her performance and what steps you have taken to get her to do the job right. Ask her to get medical help and so she can go on STD (short term dis) and recover from her depression. Worse case senario, she can go on LTD and have the government or insurance pay her.

Depression, alcoholism, drug addiction, disabilities are all iffy subjects and very difficult to deal with properly at the work place. In this case, she claims she values her job and friends at work. Let her know the company values her as an employee and is willing to give her time off to "get better" so that she can perform her job correctly. And depression is a form of disability and the government/insurance can pay her STD/LTD so she can give her full effort to her recovery.

[nipples]

Why not simply let your HR dept deal with this. I'm sure they're more qualified than the average RS member.
Posted via RS Mobile

[bcrdukes]

Actually, what I want to know is...how did this girl get hired in the first place and by whom? Is she hot? (serious question.)

[Mr.HappySilp]

if you want to fire her you start keeping recoards of warnings(E-mails sent, written warnings anything of that sense). Also make it clear that it is her work attitude and her ability to perform work that you are firing her for.

Even if she sues you, you have prove/records.

[to0n]

Originally Posted by rageguy

I wouldn't state the reason as depression for sure. I'm worried about two things: endangering herself, lawsuit against the company.

I think you are the one that is not fit to do your job.

[Gt-R R34]

OP : we're waiting for answers to questions!!

[Presto]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Actually, what I want to know is...how did this girl get hired in the first place and by whom? Is she hot? (serious question.)

I'd like to know too. IT is a field that demands skills, like troubleshooting and problem solving. My guess is she's hot, or fucked someone that's involved in hiring. In my days of doing phone support, the horndog manager would hire good-looking girls so he could screw them. He once hired this hot, halfer native, with an incredible bod for tech support, and she was dumb as bricks, and had to let her go after a month.

[Neoxphuse]

Have evidence that shows that she is not qualified for the job. Video will probably be the best.

But in any case, this is a pretty sensitive issue. Maybe ask a lawyer for advice.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by Neoxphuse

Video will probably be the best.

You would have to have everybody agree to be videotaped, otherwise, it would spark a civil liberties case and then, that in itself is a whole different pile of crap.

Originally Posted by Presto

I'd like to know too. IT is a field that demands skills, like troubleshooting and problem solving. My guess is she's hot, or fucked someone that's involved in hiring. In my days of doing phone support, the horndog manager would hire good-looking girls so he could screw them. He once hired this hot, halfer native, with an incredible bod for tech support, and she was dumb as bricks, and had to let her go after a month.

+1.

It's almost a common practice in some places for a douche bag manager to hire some hot girl, get his way with her and then let her loose amongst other team members. Soon, she becomes the team bicycle where everybody gets a ride, and then you realize she's as dumb as a doorknob. In IT, when you're dumb, it shows. Skills or GTFO. Or hotness. Sad, but that's reality.

[tiger_handheld]

Performance review. Probationary period if she fails the review. if she's not shaping up - fire her.

doing so gives you enough evidence of poor work performance or a chance for her to shape up.

[too_slow]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

Performance review. Probationary period if she fails the review. if she's not shaping up - fire her.

doing so gives you enough evidence of poor work performance or a chance for her to shape up.

It's really not that simple. The employee can file a complaint with the Labour Relations Tribunal/get a lawyer involved and sue the company. This sounds counter-intuitive, but this is what can happen. Her side of the arguement is that her disability is impeding her ability to perform the job. To make things worst, you're essentially letting her go because of her disability. This attracts some pretty negative PR for the company.

BTW, what's the screen process like with your company? Was the employee asked to write a skills-assessment exam as part of the recruiting/screening process?

There are options to go around this, but it's probably best to seek legal advise. A 'settlement' package can always be put together on a 'without prejudice' basis, and the terms to be negotiated with the said employee.

[fatal]

fire her, then hire me! BCIT graduate in IT.