Another Yellow Light Violation Question

[CRS]

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

i had failed your post not because i thought i was a lawyer, but because you are expecting lawyers to be answering to ticket questions on RS... the OP had posted a question, on a PUBLIC forum, asking for people's opinions. if he wanted lawyer's opinion, he would probably have contacted one and paid him $400/hour for a consultation. If i had a law degree i wouldnt be wasting my time answering questions on RS. I simply shared by personal experiences with the OP to help him make his decision and formulate a defense in order to successfully beat the ticket. so how am i talking out of my ass or being a "roadside lawyer"? because i think the RCMP are a bunch of crooks? then sure, im talking out of my ass for sharing my personal opinion

Really?!

Your idea of help is to formulate a defence based on a "my word against theirs" argument? If that is the case, what was the point of even posting?! The whole idea of a dispute is to present my word against theirs, what else would it be?

Yes, the cop does need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you have committed an offence but at the same time, if you're going to provide evidence, you're going to get cross-examined. If your story isn't straight, you're going to be hooped. You can try to hoop the cop but normally, they are a little more experienced in these matters than the average joe. Not to mention that the JP can as easily rule in the favour of the officer than you. It isn't like cops are normally out to get you. Oh and they don't really have a set amount of tickets they need to hand out. They need to interact with the public and have percentages (IIRC) of what should be what but not how many tickets they need to hand out.

Trial/court isn't merely as simple as you've led the OP and other readers to believe. And for that, you fail.

[Five-Oh]

Originally Posted by Ducky

Honestly I do not know how fast I was going but I did feel it was unsafe to stop and safe to proceed based on the following:
- There were no cars in the turning lane.
- It was still drizzling out, and it had been raining most of the day.
- I didn't have the best pair of tires on which I have since changed to snow tires.

If you plan to use this as the basis on your dispute there is a good chance you will lose if the officer has any experience in traffic court. Although you took these circumstances into consideration when you made your decision, I don't believe a judge will see these as a viable defence.

1 - The presence of cars in an oncoming turning lane has no effect on your ability to stop.
2 - The wet roads increasing the stopping distance is a defence you can use, but you need more information to support these facts such as where you were when the light turned yellow.
3 - Telling a judge you had bad tires on your car will not help, it basically just tells the judge you were driving a vehicle you knew to be unsafe.

The fact that I wasn't there makes it difficult for me to say what will happen in court if you dispute this ticket. Out of all the police officers I know, I don't know any police officers that would issue a ticket for a yellow light when a person is just entering a cross walk when the light turns yellow. The only time I will issue these is if the light is just about to turn red as they are entering.

Despite what xplosive says, this isn't a guaranteed win in court. I have never lost a yellow light ticket in traffic court. You will have to do your research, prepare your case, and maybe even speak to one of your friends that is a lawyer prior to attending traffic court. Too many people come to traffic court unprepared and having no idea what to expect. But if you don't believe you deserve the ticket you should dispute it, that is why the dispute process is there.

And as for you doing charity work while you received this ticket, it is unfortunate that people doing good things get tickets, but no matter what you are doing the traffic laws always apply. In my service I have heard pretty much every excuse I can think of and more about why people shouldn't get a ticket and unfortunately we can't give everybody who is doing good things a break or we would never be giving out any tickets. We don't have any quota but the traffic laws still need to be enforced.

[xpl0sive]

so why not say that you were going too fast to stop? i mean i know your are admitting to speeding, but thats not the questionin court. the question is did you or did you not enter the intersection while the yellow light was already on... I know it sounds kinda stupid to admit to speeding in front of a judge and the cop, but I once saw an asian girl in court who got three tickets, one was for driving without due care and attention, other one was illegal uturn and third was speeding i think... anyways, when the judge asked her what she was doing, she said that she had been drinking that night and pulled a u-turn in the middle of the road at 2am... so the judge reduced all the tickets to minimum fines and told her to promise not to drink and drive again... wouldn't saying that you were going too fast for the conditions and would not be able to stop in time for the light, so instead you sped up to get through the intersection safely....

[zulutango]

"saying that you were going too fast for the conditions and would not be able to stop in time for the light, so instead you sped up to get through the intersection safely...."



ox⋅y⋅mo⋅ron  /ˌɒksɪˈmɔrɒn, -ˈmoʊr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ok-si-mawr-on, -mohr-] Show IPA
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–noun, plural -mo⋅ra  /-ˈmɔrə, -ˈmoʊrə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [-mawr-uh, -mohr-uh] Show IPA . Rhetoric. a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”

[PiuYi]

Okay so today I was traveling down Westminster Hwy in Richmond and as I approached the intersection the light turned yellow. I decided to go through it since I'd have to slam on my brakes to stop in time and I didn't want the car behind me to rear end me. There was a police car turning left facing the same direction as me, and when I passed the intersection he turned on his sirens and pulled me over. The ticket I got was MVA (1)(a):

Yellow light

128 (1) When a yellow light alone is exhibited at an intersection by a traffic control signal, following the exhibition of a green light,

(a) the driver of a vehicle approaching the intersection and facing the yellow light must cause it to stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, before entering the intersection, unless the stop cannot be made in safety,

I've decided to dispute this ticket as I deemed it unsafe to stop in time for the yellow as the car behind me could have rear ended me. I thought this was pretty clear-cut win as it says right there "unless the stop cannot be made in safety" but after reading through this thread it seems I only have 2 options:

1) go out to the huge ass intersection and personally measure the size of it, do the math, and show I was past the point where i physically was able to stop the car

2) as Xplosive said, say I was going like 100km/h (blatant lie) and could not stop in time, but since my speed is not the issue here and I did not get a speeding ticket, then that should be grounds for my argument? (seems ridiculous but would it work??)

[PiuYi]

^ also for option 1) the police car was at the very front of the intersection and could no way have seen where I was when the light turned yellow, how does that affect my case?


by the way for the record, I HONESTLY believe I was unable to safely stop in time for the intersection, I'm not disputing this just because I don't want to pay, I used good judgement and am being penalized for it as a result, hence the dispute

[skidmark]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

1) go out to the huge ass intersection and personally measure the size of it, do the math, and show I was past the point where i physically was able to stop the car

I like this defence, if it turns out to be available after your calculations.

2) as Xplosive said, say I was going like 100km/h (blatant lie) and could not stop in time, but since my speed is not the issue here and I did not get a speeding ticket, then that should be grounds for my argument? (seems ridiculous but would it work??)

Why would you even consider doing this? Police officers (and every other driver with some experience) can estimate speed. Lie enough that it is obvious any you may add a criminal charge of perjury to the list. Stupid.

[skidmark]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

also for option 1) the police car was at the very front of the intersection and could no way have seen where I was when the light turned yellow, how does that affect my case?

That would all depend on whether the officer can tell the court he could see the light. I know that I used to sit there and watch the lights. It was not that difficult.

[PiuYi]

Originally Posted by skidmark

That would all depend on whether the officer can tell the court he could see the light. I know that I used to sit there and watch the lights. It was not that difficult.

so your saying all the officer has to do is say that he saw my car's position exactly when the light turned yellow, and determined it was safe to stop, and the JP will take his word for it?

sorry, another question, for the measuring out the intersection argument, doesn't that only determine where I was capable of stopping and not determine at what point it was safe for me to come to a stop?
so even though I was capable of stopping at some point, doesn't make it safe to do so, correct?

[skidmark]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

so your saying all the officer has to do is say that he saw my car's position exactly when the light turned yellow, and determined it was safe to stop, and the JP will take his word for it?

If no evidence to the contrary is entered, then yes, that is how it would work.

sorry, another question, for the measuring out the intersection argument, doesn't that only determine where I was capable of stopping and not determine at what point it was safe for me to come to a stop?
so even though I was capable of stopping at some point, doesn't make it safe to do so, correct?

Look at this the other way around. It may show that you could not have stopped.

[Soundy]

Is there a left-turn light there? If not, and the cop was at the front of the left-turn lane, shouldn't he have been paying attention to the oncoming traffic in order to make his own turn safely?

[PiuYi]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Is there a left-turn light there? If not, and the cop was at the front of the left-turn lane, shouldn't he have been paying attention to the oncoming traffic in order to make his own turn safely?

there was a left turn lane, and the officer was at the front of that left turn lane, but the left turn lane is controlled by a light separate from my light (which is in the same direction), and his light was red
his position is really what makes me wonder how he could judge my position correctly since he'd have to look backwards to see where my car is and at the same time look forwards to see the light has just turned yellow

[skidmark]

Any other traffic around in your direction? If someone in front of you stopped for the yellow and you didn't, this was often evidence that I used to show someone should have stopped....

[sebTeggy]

it wasnt safe to stop, end of story. You dont have to give the judge ANY evidence, all you have to say is 'i FELT it was unsafe to stop, so i didnt'

Plus, its a yellow, thats what its for.... unsafe = keep going, safe = stop.

describe why you thought it was safe unsafe. No pedestrians, rain, say the roads werent salted (this will take the blame away from you having bad tires, to the city not salting the roads), no oncoming traffic. tell her you could have stopped unsafely.

99% cop wont show up anyways. half the people here are overthinking this, if u are truly innocent, you dont have to really prepare. best of luck, and all the people having debates here. a message to you

and anyone who wants to argue with me.... read the beginning of this sentence again

[CRS]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

dispute that shit, cops are just being assholes

it wasnt safe to stop, end of story. You dont have to give the judge ANY evidence, all you have to say is 'i FELT it was unsafe to stop, so i didnt'

Plus, its a yellow, thats what its for.... unsafe = keep going, safe = stop.

describe why you thought it was safe unsafe. No pedestrians, rain, say the roads werent salted (this will take the blame away from you having tires, to the city not salting the roads), no oncoming traffic. tell her you could have stopped unsafely.

99% cop wont show up anyways. half the people here are overthinking this , if u are truly innocent, you dont have to really prepare. best of luck, and all the people having debates here. a message to you

its revscene, anyone who wants to argue with me.... read the beginning of this sentence again

Because you know, that isn't evidence at all. When you testify, you are providing evidence as a participant to the event. At which point the cop has the right to cross examine you. So as for your "you don't have to give the judge any evidence", you're hooped and crapped for luck.

Clearly you know nothing about law or how proceedings work so please shut up, sit down and let the big boys talk. PiuYi doesn't need to listen to your baseless and complete wrong statement.

[sebTeggy]

Originally Posted by CRS

Because you know, that isn't evidence at all. When you testify, you are providing evidence as a participant to the event. At which point the cop has the right to cross examine you. So as for your "you don't have to give the judge any evidence", you're hooped and crapped for luck.

Clearly you know nothing about law or how proceedings work so please shut up, sit down and let the big boys talk. PiuYi doesn't need to listen to your baseless and complete wrong statement.

pretty sure its innocent until proven guilty, and i think you should stop watching csi, wtf is the cop going to say? kthanx, i wish i could fail you for life

[CRS]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

, im saying the cop has to prove why he was guilty, rather than him saying why hes innocent

pretty sure its innocent until proven guilty, and i think you should stop watching csi, wtf is the cop going to say? kthanx, i wish i could fail you for life

If you say "I FELT IT WAS UNSAFE" then you are presenting evidence. Describing the incident yourself is providing more evidence! Have you not read your reply?

Hence why you need to poke holes in the cops story and not fill it in with your own account.

[sebTeggy]

Originally Posted by CRS

You're retarded.

If you say "I FELT IT WAS UNSAFE" then you are presenting evidence. Describing the incident yourself is providing more evidence! Have you not read your reply?

Hence why you need to poke holes in the cops story and not fill it in with your own account. You've proven yet again how stupid and baseless your replies are.

kk sry. didnt know u went to harvard school of law and do free gigs on revscene.

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

there was a left turn lane, and the officer was at the front of that left turn lane, but the left turn lane is controlled by a light separate from my light (which is in the same direction), and his light was red
his position is really what makes me wonder how he could judge my position correctly since he'd have to look backwards to see where my car is and at the same time look forwards to see the light has just turned yellow

I gather that you passed him from behind? He could easliy see the yellow light in front of him and you and using his mirrors, could see your position in relation to the intersection? Just a thought.

[CRS]

Wait, what?

Zulu, why was my post failed?

[jlenko]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

pretty sure its innocent until proven guilty

You've obviously never been to traffic court

Just a question... where were you when the light turned red?

[PiuYi]

Originally Posted by skidmark

Any other traffic around in your direction? If someone in front of you stopped for the yellow and you didn't, this was often evidence that I used to show someone should have stopped....

yup its a fairly busy intersection, there wasn't a car right beside me that i could measure against, but all the cars in front of me ran the yellow and no cars behind me ran the yellow after me (so i was last car to cross intersection)

btw is this a common ticket that's given out?? cuz i've never heard of anyone getting this kind of ticket before... i'm still kinda dumbstruck i got this in the first place

Originally Posted by zulutango

I gather that you passed him from behind? He could easliy see the yellow light in front of him and you and using his mirrors, could see your position in relation to the intersection? Just a thought.

ya i thought that too, but its pretty hard to judge my distance from the intersection through his mirror, I figured my word would be taken over his if the JP asked where I was when the light turned yellow since me, being in the car itself, would be the better judge of that than the officer looking through his mirror

Originally Posted by jlenko

You've obviously never been to traffic court

Just a question... where were you when the light turned red?

I was still in the intersection, but its a fairly big one (gardencity/westminster hwy)

also when the light turned yellow I was accelerating because I had just slowed down previously (the car in front of me slowed down to turn into left-turn lane)
it was because I was already under acceleration that prompted my decision not to slam on the brakes (and risk the car behind me hitting me) but to continue accelerating and pass the yellow

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by CRS

Wait, what?

Zulu, why was my post failed?

I was doing some content editing for some profanity and removedsome of it from the quotes of another poster. Didn't intend to zap you.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by zulutango

I was doing some content editing for some profanity and removedsome of it from the quotes of another poster. Didn't intend to zap you.

Alright then. I was thinking I said something wrong...?

Remove button? haha

[jlenko]

Originally Posted by jlenko

Just a question... where were you when the light turned red?

Originally Posted by PiuYi

I was still in the intersection, but its a fairly big one (gardencity/westminster hwy)

In that case... just guessing on the times here, but what the officer will probably present in court... that the light was probably yellow for a good 3 seconds before you even entered the intersection? So either you were speeding prior to entering the intersection, which is why it's assumed you had enough time to stop.

Pick one.. this ticket, or one for speeding. I don't think you'll get out of it, but that's just my guess. If you choose to fight it, let us know what happens