Where to stop for a flagperson at roadworks? As I departed my parking spot at the side of a commercial road, I observed a blue Honda Civic ahead that had stopped in her lane and then proceeded to drive slowly towards the intersection ahead. As the car turned right at the intersection, I noticed it was a young driver with a green "N" in the back window. I chalked the apparant difficulty up to her having temporary vehicle or shifting troubles as she cleared the intersection without incident. I waited for a couple of cars coming from the left to turn before I too proceeded to make the right turn, following the blue Civic. The Civic came to a stop with no tail lights or signals. I tapped my horn briefly to signal that I was behind her and waiting to proceed. She remained stopped so I signalled to pass and proceeded to pass safely and slowly and then back into my lane. About 50 yards ahead there was some road construction going on and a flagperson madly waving a "STOP" sign. I came to a stop and then observed the flagperson apparantly waving me ahead while holding the sign. I made the assumption that he wanted me to move forward so I proceeded slowly. He again held the STOP sign high while waving me forward. There was still a good 20 yards between myself and any construction equipment and activities. As I moved forward he approached my car and told me to roll down my window. Apparantly the hand signals I saw from 15 yards away as "move forward" was actually him telling me to roll down my window. I mean this in the literal sense, not the derogatory sense, but the flagperson was noticeably challenged in some way. He proceeded to dicipline me for passing the stopped vehicle at a construction zone and that I should pay more attention. I didn't see the need to debate with him so I just acknowledged his comments and moved on when directed. Back to the blue Civic. If it had stopped closer to the flagperson or there were construction vehicles, trailers or activity in the immediate vicinity I wouldn't have seen the need to pass it. Since the Civic driver had demonstrated trouble on the side street, I felt that it was simply a case of a new driver having some difficulties. Also, if the DRL rules applied to tail-lamps, I would have been better able to determine if her vehicle was running or not. Was I in the wrong or was this simply a case of a flagperson with a very bad sense of distance perception? |
The way you explain it the flagperson was giving signals that were not clearly understood by you. You made the right choice to stop and listen and there certainly would have been nothing wrong in explaining that you misunderstood the hand signals. On occasion I have been confused by flag people too. I'm not sure what part tailights play in all of this as your explanation doesn't say anything about whether it was dark, light or dusk at the time this all took place. In the absence of any other indication, you would stop before you pass the flagperson and before you were in a position to interfere with the construction project. |
I think sebberry is being deliberately obtuse. Just based on previous posts. "The Civic came to a stop with no tail lights or signals." "Also, if the DRL rules applied to tail-lamps, I would have been better able to determine if her vehicle was running or not." I don't see what these have to do with each other... if she came to a stop with no lights showing AT ALL, the natural assumption would be that her brake lights were faulty, not that she was rolling to an unpowered stop. Even the greenest noob would be stabbing the brakes to come to a stop, ESPECIALLY if the engine died. |
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Since the Civic stopped 50+ yards ahead of the flagperson, it didn't appear that the flagperson wanted the Civic to stop there for any specific reason since there was no sign of construction activities or equipment for another 50+ yards. To me, the Civic was stopped for reasons unrelated to the construction ahead, yet the flagperson seemed to be quite cross with my observation. |
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Traffic Control Persons can stop you as far back from where they stand as they want, regardless of where the construction is taking place. I have stopped cars as far as 3 blocks back from me. If the TCP is not "challenged", then the hand signals and body language is pretty clear as to what they want you to do. |
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How does a driver know to stop 50+ yards from a flagperson waving a stop sign? |
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Just because a stop light/sign exists 50+ yards down the road, doesn't mean you stop in the middle of the block. Given that the Civic driver had previously stopped in the middle of the road on another road for no apparant reason and was demonstrating the same behavior on the second road, I couldn't see why she would be stopping there for the flagperson. |
I understand your point. The Civic driver's actions were confusing. However, had he not exhibited the same behavior on a different road, would you still have passed him having seen the flag person with the stop sign showing? Did you even see the flag person before you passed the Civic? The flag person could have stopped the Civic there because of an approaching emergency vehicle from the other end of the construction zone, or a departing truck. You never know. When a TCP tells you to stop, you stop where you are. |
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This is why the title of this thread is what it is. Where do you stop? Most people stop at roughly the same place when there is a red light ahead, not 50 yards from a red light. Same thing for a fixed stop sign. When a crossing guard holds out the stop sign to let school children cross safely, do you stop 50 yards from the crosswalk? I think I'll start doing that. |
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usually if they want you to stop a fair distance from the actual work, it probably means they need to maneuver some equipment, or a truck is leaving and needs that room to pull out. seeing as you came upon the civic at a stand still, you could have edged to the other side of the road a bit as you came up behind the civic to try to see around it before making any kind of maneuver to go around. |
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The fact that the Civic didn't even have any signs that the engine was running made it even harder to determine that it was stopped there by the flagperson. Officers... what is the law regarding this? From what I understand, if you approach a stop sign where there is no stop line, you stop where there would normally be a line. If a flagperson needed to stop vehicles far enough back to allow for equipment to enter/depart the work zone, would the flagperson not move to the location where the traffic needed to stop if nothing more than to ensure traffic stops leaving enough space? Nobody here can tell me that they make it a matter of routine practice to stop 50 yards away from a stop sign or light. |
What's to say the driver of the blue Civic wasn't directed to stop there... and was sitting in park? If that was the case.. and you passed them in a construction zone... I would have given you shit too. |
I stop when the flag person motions me to stop, even if I'm 50 yards away. If they hold up a stop sign with their hand up, I stop. If they hold up the stop sign but wave me forward, I'll go up slowly until they put their hand up. You couldn't look through the Civic's window to see what was ahead or was the window tinted? Your question seems irrelevant to the situation you were in because you just decided the car in front of you had problems and went around him and then got confused by the flag person's hand gestures so it really has no bearing on where you should have stopped in this case. You should basically stop when they tell you to and if you didn't understand what they were doing, then you should have let the person know so that they know that whatever hand gesture they used doesn't mean stop so they can correct themselves for next time. So basically, there isn't really a place where you should stop. You should stop when they tell you to. Usually if they have the stop sign and they are waving it at you, that means to stop where you are too, so it depends on the situation. |
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Next time you see a crossing guard holding a stop sign a block away, why don't you stop right where you are? If you came up to a car that was stopped in the middle of the road for no apparant reason, how long do you wait until you pass? Let's say that the driver of the Civic somehow WAS stopped 50 yards away from a three person construction area. After the flagperson stopped the Civic, he was out of view of the drivers approaching from behind the Civic. Without a visible flagperson or other signs of construction personnel, equipment, signage, etc... how are other drivers able to ascertain why the Civic was stopped? |
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Also, as for the auto on tailights that are tied to your DRL's that you keep mentioning that car's should have, well, it wouldn't have solved your problem here cause the car that will most likely break down probably wouldn't have this yet even if they implemented it right now or last year even. To me, a clear indicator of a car in distress is the hazard lights and/or the hood being opened. As for all the other cars following you in passing that car, well, I see most drivers tend to follow the leader. I've seen two cars almost run a red light (ie. stopped but started moving forward cause the left turn light turned on). The first guy moved and the 2nd car followed and both slammed on the brakes when the first one realized that the light didn't turn green yet. |
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