Gear lever shouldnt pass N to R unless brakes are depressed.

dude it's directly UP from D without even the need to push sideways, my dick could pull that manuever...

Maybe he was in sport mode... how the fuck do I know?

There are a lot of reasons why you might not be able to select neutral.

What I find odd is that Toyota would mention the possibility of not being able to shift into neutral. This almost looks like they're admitting a possible fault or condition that would prevent you from shifting.

In this day of overblown lawsuits it just looks like they handed some "ammunition" to the lawyers by making such a statement.

Agreed.
And I put my money where my mouth is by buying a new Toyota, and shares during the last big drop in value. They have such a great product, and with new pricing on many models, they're poised to secure the number one spot as it should be. My GM costs me far more every year to fix cheaply made parts than it's even worth.

:(

Dear Retarded Customer, go fuck yourself.

Sincerely, Toyota.

wire, cause the pedal actually returns and the PPS gets stuck inside and you cant stop it.

And from the news today....

Toyoda promised a brake-override system in all future models worldwide that will add a safety measure against acceleration problems that are behind the recent massive recalls.

The system is a mechanism that overrides the accelerator if the gas and brake pedals are pressed at the same time.

The sad thing is when people read this it will look like Toyota is applying a band-aid fix to prevent runaway cars, even though most other manufacturers already have this feature in their vehicles.


To Marco911 and originalhypa, do you think NHTSA is blowing things out of proportion by continuing to investigate Toyota? Or should they have stopped once Toyota did the floor mat recall? How about in years past when NHTSA went after Ford and GM for major safety recalls? Do you think Toyota is being treated unfairly or differently from other manufacturers by NHTSA and/or the media?

I consider that there were two major gaffes by the NHTSA regarding Toyota.
The first was when the NHTSA announced that the recall wasn't actually voluntary, but that the NHTSA made Toyota recall the vehicles. This was rescinded the next day by the NHTSA as a "mis-communication".

The other gaffe was when the secretary of the NHTSA said, in congress, that Toyotas are not safe, and owners should not drive them. Again, this was taken back the next day.

The problem is that both of theses "false" statements affected Toyota's share price dropping it, and the overall value of the company drastically. Now, take into account the efforts the US gov't are going through in order to re-establish GM as the top, and the fact that the NHTSA is an arm of that same gov't, and the writing is on the wall.

^deserves a thanks for the insight, but a fail for the conspiracy theory it hints at.

so, we just purchased our second corrola. had an 07 and got a 10 becuase they were a lot cheaper payments then the 07 and a much nicer car. who cares about all the recalls. ford has one where the car could catch fire...anyone worried about that? im not a toyota fan by any means but they are good cars for a DD

And why is that?
Is it that hard to comprehend that the US gov't found that a simple attack on Toyota's quality and character could give them some time to stop the financial bleeding that GMAC and GMC are going through?

It seems that the AFP, one of the largest and oldest news agencies agrees with me.

Even if you put it in R while going at speed, it wont engage until you stop. It is a well known way to turn on your rear view camera if you are cruising to a stop or something. At least on the IS/GS...
Also, the shift pattern is the exact same on my Mitsubishi, which most people with decent muscle motor skills could do without even looking.

You know, it is good insight.

I dont really sense any hints of conspiracy theories from the poster though. Not over analyse characters on this site, but
Originalhypa doesnt really fall into the catagory of conspiracy theorist.
According to October's Psychology Today article on conspiracy theorist's, these people tend to be loner's, unsuccessful and they have the feeling that the "whole world is against them."

Now, I have to say that I think hypa definity has had some luck and good timing on his side for where he is today.

Back to the article though, Im waiting for a big court date..
You know, there are a lot of court case's that go through law without even a peep from the public eye.

Btw, the editor is kinda cute;)

Toyota has done the same thing. When the NHTSA said they had not found any problems with the Lexus that the officer in Cali was killed in, Toyota quickly issued a statement that "the NHTSA has found no fault with the vehicle" making it sound like the investigation was finished and there was no problem with the Lexus. In fact, the NHTSA stated they hadn't yet found a fault, but were still looking. NHTSA informed Toyota of this and Toyota had to retract their statement.

Toyota's press release for the recall even states "there have been no reported fatalities" when in fact there are 19 (as of the last time I checked).

I personally don't think Toyota is being treated unfairly. The NHTSA has vigorously gone after Ford, GM and others in the past for safety issues. I don't see the NHTSA as acting differently, but the timing is just unfortunate for Toyota and good for GM.

Another problem involves the psychology and mindset of the typical Toyota owner. They believe their vehicles are perfect and therefore have a lower than normal rate of reporting of incidents by owners than domestics do. Simply put, if 1,000 people driving a Ford have an incident of unintended acceleration, maybe 100 will actually report it and the rest will take responsibility for their mistake in pressing the wrong pedal. With a Toyota, you might get 10-20 that would report it because they believe their Toyota is "too good" to have such a problem.

Yet even with this difference, Toyota still has a significantly higher rate of unintended acceleration problems than the average for all makes. When you consider that Toyota drivers are less likely to report, this makes the real numbers far worse than what is being reported. This is why, for example, insurance companies are taking a closer look at these accidents and not blindly attributing them to "driver error" (which is the norm for insurance companies, because it usually is driver error).

Another example of the "psychology" of this issue, the number of accidents in Toyota vehicles having unintended acceleration have shot up since the announcement of the recall by Toyota. Part of this is people are now reporting what they previously would have called driver error hoping Toyota will somehow cover their screw up. Another part is the subconsious - if you're driving a vehicle that you believe has a sticky throttle problem, then you're more likely to have an accident because in the back of your mind you're almost expecting it to happen.

There have been several studies done over the years that show this to be true. One example is courtesy cars for collision repair facilities. They have a very high rate of accidents vs the general population. This was found because the driver who is getting their car fixed is in a different state of mind, questioning their abilities and being just plain flustered. Even though the accident could have been days earlier, they still have these thoughts and because of this they make more mistakes with the courtesy car (or with their newly repaired car they just got back). They aren't bad drivers, but for a brief period of time in the back of their mind they think they are.

BTW, the statistics for Toyota having a higher rate of unintended acceleration problems is from before the recall was made public, so it's more accurate than recent statistics.

The only failure on Toyota's part was not to have the brake overrride feature installed where consumers riding the accelerator and the brake at the same time for longer than 1 second would result in cutting 95% of the power to the engine.


I conjecture that most accidents are not caused by sticking throttles but buy dumb toyota drivers that mistake the gas pedal for the brake pedal ala Audi 5000. If you look at the data that Toyota gave CTS (posted on CTS' website) http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/...s/nr100127.htm
there is no data supporting any stuck accelerator pedals, only a dozen or so instances of pedals returning slowly to its orginal position.

can someone please summarize this for me?
it's too goddam long...

You're still missing two key points. First is that Toyota has a higher than average (and not just slightly higher) recorded number of cases per 1,000 vehicles of unintended acceleration.

Second, unlike the Audi 5000, black boxes in new cars record the throttle position and brake application status when there is an accident. This can tell you right away which pedals were being pressed at the time of the accident.


BTW, I don't know about NHTSA in the US, but as of right now Toyota is not allowing Transport Canada access to airbag computer black box data. Kinda makes you wonder why they would do that, doesn't it?

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...sa-complaints/

I will go on the record to say that the incident today in California with the runaway Prius will prove to be a hoax.

Those numbers are relatively meaningless. Oh, sure, they're great if you want to get an average of NHTSA complaints against certain manufacturers, but they're useless if you're looking for a proper pattern. As far as I'm concerned, they're all perceived issues, not actually problems. The only true way you can get proper data is by going through each company's warranty repairs and see what's been done. As well, that list is an average over many years. One company might have produced a shitty car between '01 and '04, but vastly improved afterwards. That would skew the relative complaint percent to them being merely average.

Oh, and MB, Smart and Porsche at the bottom? You can't tell me that's correct. The only way the latter two are able to place themselves at the bottom of the list would be because of the percentage of their cars on the road compared to Toyota and GM.

The data shows that the media is overhyping this when they claim that the NHTSA has been inundated with complaints about Toyotas safety issues and unintended acceleration and that Toyota has been worrying about burying this issue.

-There is no problem with Toyota electronics.
-Toyota drivers are mistaking the gas from the brake
- There is a rare problem with accelerators being "sticky" - brakes are strong enough to bring the car to a safe stop for these types of issues. Toyota has addressed this issue and the floor mat issue. People need to move on...I don't know why this story still has legs. All the people crashing these toyotas and claiming it accelerated on their own are SENIORS.

There is no evidence that the CHP crash was anything other than a pedal stuck to the bottom of the floor mat.

I remember chatting with a cab driver in Vancouver a few weeks ago. He was driving a Prius and I asked how he liked it? He said after 20 years of driving a cab, he's driven everything from the Luminas to dodge minivans and everything in between. He said the Prius was the best car he's ever driven, and actually changed the face of cabs. He could let the thing sit idle without costing him profit, and his fuel costs were a third of what his domestic driving cohorts were putting down. Not to mention the lack of downtime. His 08' Prius had 300,000km on it, and had never had an issue. These are the kind of stories that ring true, not some retired jackass looking to cash in.

Marco, I'm not disagreeing with the media overhyping the UA issue. I personally think 99% of all these new claims are bogus. I'm just saying that the raw data shown in the link doesn't tell much of a story.
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That link also doesn't differentiate the type of problem/complaint...

I wonder how many complaints are actually due to serious "Car is non-driveable" problems, vs less serious problems.

Then we agree, because the media is using this data to imply Toyotas have a high proportion of complaints for UA.