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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 02-10-2010, 11:54 PM   #1
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U-turn in richmond = ticket?

Hi everyone, sorry for the long post.

My friend and I got a U-Turn ticket - MVA 168 (b) (iv) in Richmond last night (the intersection between Minoru Blvd and Westminster Hwy.) Both of us were coming from Minoru Blvd toward Westminster Hwy direction. We were looking for a Japanese restaurant and we only knew it was near No.3 and Westminster hwy. Our initial plan was to make a left turn to Westminster hwy and see where the restaurant locates. However, because the Olympic torch relay created big traffic jam on Westminster Hwy. And we can’t make a left turn to Westminster hwy. Therefore, I decide to make a U-turn at that interaction and park at London Drugs first, and then do the search by foot. Then all of the sudden officer follow me to the mall and gave each of us a ticket. We both shocked because we didn’t know that we can’t make a U-turn in that situation where there is no sign of saying No U-turn allow like the one on No.3 Road. I explain to the officer who wrote me the ticket (there are two officers) about why I made this time, and he just ignore me and think I was trying to make a excuses.

Because of this, I did some research about this MVA 168(b) (iv). Here is what bclaws.ca stated:

Except as provided by the bylaws of a municipality or the laws of a treaty first nation, a driver must not turn a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction

(a) Unless the driver can do so without interfering with other traffic, or,
(b) When he or she is driving
(i) On a curve,
(ii) On an approach to or near the crest of a grade where the vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of another vehicle approaching from either direction within 150 m,
(iii) At a place where a sign prohibits making a U-turn,
(iv) At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or
(v) In a business district, except at an intersection where no traffic control signal has been erected.


After reading this, I got a bit confuse. According to this section, it state that “Unless the driver can do so without interfering with other traffic”. In my case, I double check there is no “No U-turn” sign under the traffic light first, and I did it when the green left turn signal is flashing.(We are on left turn lane) Both side of travel were doing left turn so there is no incoming traffic. There is no way I was interfering with other traffic. But the police state that I broke this law, which is “[U-turn] At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected”. I read all the thread about U-turn from Revscene and I still not sure is the Officer just pick on us or we can’t make a U-turn under any circumstances?? If we can’t make a U-turn under any circumstances, then why government bothers to put those “No U-turn” sign up?? It doesn’t make sense to me.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Other Thread about U-turn
http://www.revscene.net/forums/got-t...ghlight=u-turn
http://www.revscene.net/forums/u-tur...ghlight=u-turn
http://www.revscene.net/forums/u-tur...ghlight=u-turn
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Last edited by terror7; 02-11-2010 at 12:04 AM. Reason: The Officer wrote 168(b)(IV), but I believe he mean sub-section under MVA 168
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:01 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terror7 View Post
My friend and I got a U-Turn ticket - MVA 168 (b) (IV)
Because of this, I did some research about this MVA 168(b) (IV). Here is what bclaws.ca stated:

Except as provided by the bylaws of a municipality or the laws of a treaty first nation, a driver must not turn a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction

(a) Unless the driver can do so without interfering with other traffic, or,
(b) When he or she is driving
(i) On a curve,
(ii) On an approach to or near the crest of a grade where the vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of another vehicle approaching from either direction within 150 m,
(iii) At a place where a sign prohibits making a U-turn,
(iv) At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or
(v) In a business district, except at an intersection where no traffic control signal has been erected.
Since it's 168 (b) (IV), you have to look at rule IV
so it'll be:

Except as provided by the bylaws of a municipality or the laws of a treaty first nation, a driver must not turn a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction - (iv) At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:06 AM   #3
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Ops, I think I shouldn't cap it. The Officer wrote 168(b)(IV) and that's why I type IV instead of iv. But I think he mean the sub-section of 168 (b) (iv)
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terror7 View Post
Except as provided by the bylaws of a municipality or the laws of a treaty first nation, a driver must not turn a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction

(a) Unless the driver can do so without interfering with other traffic, or,
(b) When he or she is driving
(i) On a curve,
(ii) On an approach to or near the crest of a grade where the vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of another vehicle approaching from either direction within 150 m,
(iii) At a place where a sign prohibits making a U-turn,
(iv) At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or
(v) In a business district, except at an intersection where no traffic control signal has been erected.

The keyword is "or". That section basically means that if you happen to violate any of those subsections, you can be ticketed.

The government might have erected those signs in places where they don't meet any of those restrictions set out in MVA 168(b) and the government still does not want any driver to do a u-turn even if doing so would not interfere with other traffic.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:32 AM   #5
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Just remember this about U turns: Only in the country... bumpkin!

Unless you see a sign specifically stating you CAN pull a U turn... don't risk it. There's too many stupid drivers in Metro Vancouver that are gonna sneak up on ya while you try... better safe than sorry.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:22 AM   #6
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You did it where there is a traffic light, thus violating this rule:

(iv) At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or

Happened to a friend as well and the officer who gave him a ticket pointed this out to him on the spot.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wing_woo View Post
You did it where there is a traffic light, thus violating this rule:

(iv) At an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or

Happened to a friend as well and the officer who gave him a ticket pointed this out to him on the spot.
This.

Cannot ever do it at an intersection with traffic lights. And when you explained to the cop why you did it, it was pretty much excuses. Ignorance of the law is not an actual defence.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:22 AM   #8
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omg I got a ticket at pretty much the same spot (Westminster and Minoru, heading W initially) for the same reason in 2006. I also had no idea it was illegal. Cop listened but also wouldn't budge on the ticket. Oh wellz, live and learn.

Someone told me this a while back.. can anyone confirm this?
In Canada, U-Turns at intersections are illegal unless specified.
In USA, U-Turns at intersections are legal unless specified.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:28 AM   #9
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In Winnipeg you can do U turns all you want
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:42 AM   #10
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:56 AM   #11
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To this day I have always wondered why they have "No U-Turn" signs as I think all they did was confused more people about the laws. U-turns are prohibited at every intersection controlled by a light in British Columbia unless there is a sign saying you are allowed to do one.

Unfortunately for you, ignorance is not bliss. If you want, you are able to dispute the fine specifically of the ticket you received and not the allegation itself. By doing that you are admitting your guilt that you made the u-turn but have a chance to explain to the judge the reasons behind it in hopes he will reduce the fine. Some judges will reduce it substantially while others won't budge so it can be a gamble.
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:33 AM   #12
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Someone told me this a while back.. can anyone confirm this?
In Canada, U-Turns at intersections are illegal unless specified.
In USA, U-Turns at intersections are legal unless specified.
Each Province and State is going to have its own rules.
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:13 AM   #13
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... I also had no idea it was illegal...
so are the other 99% of Chinese drivers in Richmond ... my office is facing an intersection on no.3 road, it still amazes me watching 3, 4 cars all line up in the left turn lane, wait for the yellow light and all making U turns one after another, as if it's completely legal and the most neutral thing to do ...
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this is the internet and everyone knows better about what happened sitting behind a desk than the people who are actually involved.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:00 PM   #14
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Uturns are illegal ON ANY STREET!!
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:47 PM   #15
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U-TURN was only ever legal on NO.3 Road when they had the B-LINE lanes in the middle of No. 3 Rd. This was a long time ago now.
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:35 PM   #16
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Uturns are illegal ON ANY STREET!!
That's not true.

Can you stop posting? Or at the very least stop giving out bad advice/wrong information?
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