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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
LOL. Most of the rhetoric in this film are half-truths. If students don't find their classes useful or are spending inordinate amounts of time doing stupid stuff (like Facebook), the problem lies with the students, not the system.
A college degree is not the same as a degree from BCIT. It's not meant to teach you how to do a job, its meant to open ones mind and to learn to think objectively and to be able to apply the scientific method in all areas of life.
i dont think the video is solely criticizing the education system
i always thought bringing a laptop to lecture was just a luxury, not a neccessicity unless you're prof speaks pretty fast.
but then again, i do think online courses/correspondents' biggest disadvantage is the distractions that is present with readily accessible internet.
LOL. Most of the rhetoric in this film are half-truths. If students don't find their classes useful or are spending inordinate amounts of time doing stupid stuff (like Facebook), the problem lies with the students, not the system.
A college degree is not the same as a degree from BCIT. It's not meant to teach you how to do a job, its meant to open ones mind and to learn to think objectively and to be able to apply the scientific method in all areas of life.
Absolutely, learning how to be a creative thinker, objective and not accept everything at face value. Essentially you're learning how to learn adapt to different situations you'll encounter.
I don't have a degree but I have a couple diplomas in two different areas and did them at two different times in my life. The first one was right out of highschool and parents paid, didn't give a fuck and spent all my time partying, going to classes very irregular and not really trying. My grades really showed this, although I passed it was by the skin of my teeth. Didn't have anyone to blame for my bad time management and my disregard for my own time but myself.
The second time I paid and was studying something I was interested in. I was able to work 30 hours a week, take afternoon and night classes and I really excelled. I applied myself and busted my ass studying, what a difference.
You get what you put into it. What I took from it is I will not push my son into University right after school, at least not full time unless he really wants to. I'd rather have him take some part time classes, figure out what he wants to do (enjoys) and go from there.
__________________
The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth. - Rocky Balboa
Going to school isn't so much about learning the knowledge...for most people 99% of the stuff you learn in school are irrelevant or useless in your future job or in the real world.
But school trains people to become hardworking, to use their brain, and to be able to deal with works whether they like it or not.
At the very least, schools filter out people who cannot do that
Absolutely, learning how to be a creative thinker, objective and not accept everything at face value. Essentially you're learning how to learn adapt to different situations you'll encounter.
I don't have a degree but I have a couple diplomas in two different areas and did them at two different times in my life. The first one was right out of highschool and parents paid, didn't give a fuck and spent all my time partying, going to classes very irregular and not really trying. My grades really showed this, although I passed it was by the skin of my teeth. Didn't have anyone to blame for my bad time management and my disregard for my own time but myself.
The second time I paid and was studying something I was interested in. I was able to work 30 hours a week, take afternoon and night classes and I really excelled. I applied myself and busted my ass studying, what a difference.
You get what you put into it. What I took from it is I will not push my son into University right after school, at least not full time unless he really wants to. I'd rather have him take some part time classes, figure out what he wants to do (enjoys) and go from there.
^but at the same time, most ppl at the University age (18-22) have no idea wut they like & don't like. If given the opportunity, most of them will choose to party everyday as an excuse to "discover that they really want in life." They will not understand the importance of getting ahead until they in their mid-late 20s. By then those with forced education will be starting to head up in their career while those who needed time to "figure things out" will be years behind.
I'm one of those who tried to figure things out & now I feel that I'm way behind my peers who started on the get go. Time is actually ur enemy & not ur friend.
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Ignorance is bliss
How I wish I can remain ignorant, why do I know so much?
^but at the same time, most ppl at the University age (18-22) have no idea wut they like & don't like. If given the opportunity, most of them will choose to party everyday as an excuse to "discover that they really want in life." They will not understand the importance of getting ahead until they in their mid-late 20s. By then those with forced education will be starting to head up in their career while those who needed time to "figure things out" will be years behind.
I'm one of those who tried to figure things out & now I feel that I'm way behind my peers who started on the get go. Time is actually ur enemy & not ur friend.
No doubt, finding what you enjoy as early as possible is ideal for sure. I ws one of those students who early on choose partying over school all the time. Things have changed a lot now I hate leaving the house unless I have to.
__________________
The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth. - Rocky Balboa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferra
Going to school isn't so much about learning the knowledge...for most people 99% of the stuff you learn in school are irrelevant or useless in your future job or in the real world.
But school trains people to become hardworking, to use their brain, and to be able to deal with works whether they like it or not.
At the very least, schools filter out people who cannot do that
Very true.
Add to that the contacts you make while there. I got hired right after graduating. The profs spoke very highly of me. It took me a while to get it, but you try to set yourself apart from the rest. Like the time I got kicked out of class once for telling the prof what I thought about the course. The prof knew I was right and so did the other faculty members who heard of the ordeal. Funny thing was, I ended up doing work for that prof. I'm not suggesting for a minute anyone get up and tell the prof to shove it, but stand out and get noticed. Show passion and put your spin on everything. As mentioned previously, you really do get out what you put in. Volunteering for stuff gets you noticed. Start something new that will get others interested. Help out wherever and whenever you can. Profs aren't stupid. They notice shit like that. In some faculties, profs have a lot of pull when people come looking for prospects. Right, and marks, believe it or not, makes a difference.
As for the party trap. That's a hard one. I got kicked out of UBC my first year for just that. Boy, did that ever wake me up. Swore that I'd get my shit together. I went to college the following year and aced all of my classes. Got accepted back and the rest was smooth sailing.
Like Ferra said, first and second year are the filtering years. To get rid of people who really have no idea what they're doing or aren't prepared to do the crappy work. I'm glad I was able to bounce back from my huge fuck up. Gotta admit, toga parties and xxxx fests were a huge distraction, LOL. I miss university life.
Now this happened 30+ years ago, but from what I've seen with my own kids and from the post baccalaurete course work I took fairly recently at SFU, things haven't changed much at all.
This post was deleted at first, but after thinking about it, brought back in hopes that it might shed some light...... take it for what it's worth. It doesn't apply in all situations.
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"there but for the grace of god go I"
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Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
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"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
I think 18 is too young to go to university, most of the information you receive seems like it has nothing to do with your life because very few 18-23 year old's don't really know who they are yet... how are you supposed to apply your education and knowledge to a person and a life that they don't fully know or understand yet?
IMO when you graduate you should work/travel/party/get your heart broken, all of these decisions (right or wrong) help you discover who you really are. when you know who you are its easier to apply education and knowledge to the life you know that you want to have.
the value of your university education lies not in the knowledge you acquire. put it this way... it forces you to study subjects you're not interested in... puts you out of your comfort zone by making you get up and go to class...to prioritize, makes u study instead of going out. it really challenges you. if it weren't for school most young adults won't do shit all with their time. It sucks but it builds character and disciplines you. It broadens your horizon. It forces you to think objectively. it questions your beliefs and gives you the means to form more educated opinions on things. it puts things into perspective and you learn so much about yourself. you get what you put in and much of what you get in return is intangible.
that being said school can be very discouraging. and is flawed in many ways. the school system isn't adapting to our modern day NEARLY as fast as it should. and is definitely not geared to appeal to individuals. but thats reality and similar to the work world. nothing and no one will conform to your needs (maybe ur mom and dad). if you want something you have to bust your ass and get it yourself.
sorry for all the grammar/spelling errors im too tired right now to edit
not to mention that the post secondary system is not built for people who are economically disadvantaged which makes it even harder to meet the set goals and parameters.
not to mention that the post secondary system is not built for people who are economically disadvantaged which makes it even harder to meet the set goals and parameters.
School is full of mostly irrelevant things. No, I'm not stupid. I graduated high school taking a 94% average into university (that I had probably could've had my pick of in 2001 but applied only to UBC). It took me til 2008 to graduate from university because I took multiple years off to travel and never did a full course load.
I, like many modern students, bought textbooks I never read that cost hundreds of dollars. I realized this in my second year, second term and never bought another textbook, probably saving me tons of money.
I studied and went to class enough to pass because...well, unless you're going for further education, no one cares whether you get 50% or 100%. The piece of paper you get is still the same.
not to mention that the post secondary system is not built for people who are economically disadvantaged which makes it even harder to meet the set goals and parameters.
I don't know about that. Certainly true in the States but here in Canada, post secondary is quite accessible. I know quite a few poor but very smart people that went to university on the government's dollar.
Heck, these days you don't even need to be particularly smart to get in. I keep hearing that you don't need to take provincials anymore and that grade bars are set lower than they were ten years ago so I can only assume scholarships are more of the same.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
I don't know about that. Certainly true in the States but here in Canada, post secondary is quite accessible. I know quite a few poor but very smart people that went to university on the government's dollar.
Heck, these days you don't even need to be particularly smart to get in. I keep hearing that you don't need to take provincials anymore and that grade bars are set lower than they were ten years ago so I can only assume scholarships are more of the same.
Very true......
If there's a will, there is always a way.
I have also heard somewhere that universities have finally realized that marks alone are not going to produce the best. Personalities are just as, if not more, important. People who bring something new to the table. People who have a history of experiences and a certain mind set.
Then again, this could all be wishful thinking and the harsh reality is, post secondary is just plain good business.
__________________
Quote:
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Quote:
Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
YODO = You Only Die Once.
Dirty look from MG1 can melt steel beams.
"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
not to mention that the post secondary system is not built for people who are economically disadvantaged which makes it even harder to meet the set goals and parameters.
That's really not true. Canada provides some of the best financial support for post secondary education.
There are student loans & grants anyone can apply. I went thru 4 years of university without paying a penny and I got close to $20,000 of grant (free money).
That's really not true. Canada provides some of the best financial support for post secondary education.
There are student loans & grants anyone can apply. I went thru 4 years of university without paying a penny and I got close to $20,000 of grant (free money).
I agree with all of you, Canada does a great job in supporting students and helping people obtain their educational goals, and yes where the is a will there is a way, IMO its tougher being poor or having little to no family support, but this argument branches into a tangled mess of socio/economic factors... long story short, go to school when you feel like you will get the most out of it, no matter what socio/economic barriers you need to overcome.
meh, recently the provincial gov't has been doing a poor job of social support for the students (or child welfare/hospitals for that matter).
i noticed ubc has cut back this year too but it was under 5% so it was still bearable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferra
That's really not true. Canada provides some of the best financial support for post secondary education.
There are student loans & grants anyone can apply. I went thru 4 years of university without paying a penny and I got close to $20,000 of grant (free money).
sorry, the majority of grants/loan reduction no long exists
back on topic, i think the majority of 1st/2nd year are too shy to approach TA and profs for help..also i find that old exams are hard to find in post-secondary and they've always helped me simulate through tests in high-school.
Sometimes I dunno how the loans/grants are being review. I know quite a number of ppl who don't need loans/grant at all but got them. By giving it to them the government is taking away the opportunity for other people who are acutally in need. I'm sure u guys will know someone who use their loan/grant to get a body kit & new rims.
__________________
Ignorance is bliss
How I wish I can remain ignorant, why do I know so much?
Sometimes I dunno how the loans/grants are being review. I know quite a number of ppl who don't need loans/grant at all but got them. By giving it to them the government is taking away the opportunity for other people who are acutally in need. I'm sure u guys will know someone who use their loan/grant to get a body kit & new rims.
When I went back to school the second time I didn't qualify for a Government loan because I was working and making to much money. I thought it was absolute crap. I had to get a line of credit with my bank and use that making monthly payments on interest. I felt like I was being punished for trying to better myself and working well going to school at the same time. If I quit my job I would have had no issues getting the money which is ass backwards IMO. I could understand if I was making like 40K a year or something at the time but I was netting maybe $1300-1400 a month.
__________________
The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth. - Rocky Balboa
When I went back to school the second time I didn't qualify for a Government loan because I was working and making to much money. I thought it was absolute crap. I had to get a line of credit with my bank and use that making monthly payments on interest. I felt like I was being punished for trying to better myself and working well going to school at the same time. If I quit my job I would have had no issues getting the money which is ass backwards IMO. I could understand if I was making like 40K a year or something at the time but I was netting maybe $1300-1400 a month.
Well, I do see a point in the way governemt saw ur case. U r able to support urself and u have a career already making stable income. U don't NEED the money.
But what I wanted to say originally are ppl busting their ass off working $8/hr will not get a grant because "they have money" all while someone who does shit all and play video games every night get a grant because "they have no money". Now THAT's complete bulshit.
__________________
Ignorance is bliss
How I wish I can remain ignorant, why do I know so much?
I have also heard somewhere that universities have finally realized that marks alone are not going to produce the best. Personalities are just as, if not more, important. People who bring something new to the table. People who have a history of experiences and a certain mind set.
Then again, this could all be wishful thinking and the harsh reality is, post secondary is just plain good business.
I think that's why most American universities require an essay to be sent in with the transcript...to see if potential students are the sort of people who should be taking post secondary.
Well, I do see a point in the way governemt saw ur case. U r able to support urself and u have a career already making stable income. U don't NEED the money.
But what I wanted to say originally are ppl busting their ass off working $8/hr will not get a grant because "they have money" all while someone who does shit all and play video games every night get a grant because "they have no money". Now THAT's complete bulshit.
it's a double-edged blade. You have people who are in school 50 hours a week and no time to go to work. they deserve loans/grants.
you have someone who's earning $500/mo while going to school and wants to fully support themselves. The parents want their child to be fully independent too...but the gov't will deny it because the parents may be making 80k+
there's a line for putting parents income and a line for how much they are willing to help you. I've been hearing as long as your parents have the income but won't be willing to support you;ll probably be denied for support from the gov't.
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