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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 03-06-2010, 09:48 AM   #1
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Disputing a VI

Hey guys,

Just wondering if there's anything that can be done about a VI. My neighbour across the street has called the cops on my brother and now my best friend. While my brother's exhaust may or may not be illegal (they tested by ear in an enclosed area), my best friend just had exhaust work done to his car this week (pre-silencer and silencer) to make it quieter than it was before. Both cars are RX-7's (one fc and one fd) so they're naturally much louder than a regular car (say a cavalier or camry).

What can be done about this as we all feel these VI's were unjustly handed out. Also, the officer who showed up yesterday said he was only giving my best friend a VI because my brother got one as well previously in the week. I find this completely ridiculous and would like to know what can be done please.

Also, understand that both men are willing to get the VI done, but feel it is EXTREMELY unjust.

Thanks.
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:14 AM   #2
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As a former owner of as rotary engine car I can tell you that they are NOT louder in stock condition, than a piston-engined car. Aftermarket exhaust...all bets are off. It all depends on what is done to remove and replace the original compliant system. If your vehicles are 100% stock with no mods at all, then I can't see why a VI was done...however, reading between the lines in your post, I'm assuming you have done some mods on the vehicles.

It's unlikely that any VI would be issued solely for a loud exhaust, unless the Cop had reason to believe that nothing would be done to make it legal again. Issuing a ticket doesn't mean the problem will be fixed and f I have run into that many times before. The owner just keeps paying the tickets and keeps driving the unrepaired vehicle. It's common practice to deal with a vehicle stopped the second time for the same illegal mod, to get a #2 VI to ensure the defect was fixed. If you ignore the VI you are looking at a $598 ticket and tow job. Usually an inspection is cheaper than the ticket for a defective vehicle and by the sound of things you might have gotten a ticket for the exhaust ?
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:21 AM   #3
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No, no tickets were given, just the VIs issued. And we were informed it was solely because the neighbour complained about the loudness of the vehicles. One of which is BEHIND our house in the alley (where are carport is located) but his house is across the street from the FRONT. We're not even sure how he knew it was my brother's car, unless he walked up and down the alley feeling the exhausts.

Also, the fd's exhaust system is completely compliant. As I said, the cop told my friend he was only being issued one because my brother was issued one as well, and he "had to be fair". I'm sorry, I've never had a problem with police until now. And it's only this one officer. I don't think what he did was right or "fair" at all. If my friend takes in a report from the place that did his exhaust, explaining that it's fully compliant, could he have the VI waived?

Also, I want to point out that I said both of them were willing to get the VI done, I just wanted to know if it was possible to dispute it, and if so, how?
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:54 PM   #4
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Are you telling us that the issuing Police officer never heard the exhaust himself and both the systems are no louder than a comparable vehicle with a stock system? If both these are true then I cannot see why any Police officer would or should issue a VI? Seems like part of the story is missing here.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:28 PM   #5
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My brother's fc they listened to in an enclosed area while it was backed up against a cement wall that is almost taller than I am. They handed him a VI for that.

My best friend's car was parked in front of the house. When he started it, the cop stated (in front of 3 people) that it was a bit louder than your average car, but it wasn't that loud. You could have a normal conversation standing right beside the exhaust (which is where they were standing), unlike my car where you have to yell to be heard over the damn thing. Yet mine (which was on the road for 3 months everyday) was never complained about. The officer then turned around and said to my friend "I have to give you this, it's not fair to your buddy or the neighbour who complained. I don't want to come back here tonight because he's not satisfied." The FD had a pre-silencer and silencer installed on the Monday before he was given the VI. I can no longer hear him coming from 2-3 blocks away. Whereas a couple weeks ago when he came over, I could hear him on Hastings from the top of the hill. THAT is how much quieter his exhaust is now.

There is no missing story here, but please feel free to add what you think happened. I don't appreciate you assuming that I'm leaving stuff out.

As I said before (multiple times now), both of them are getting the VI done. If they thought it was illegal, they wouldn't be so willing to go and pay the inspection fee. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that this neighbour can call the cops because my friend's car bothered him for 2 minutes.

Also, where can I get information on what can be done about my neighbour? I don't want to have to deal with the cops every time a friend comes over. And its fucking ridiculous that I or any of my guests should have to park a block and a half away (like the last officer suggested) just to appease this nutball.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:39 PM   #6
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Search should find a thread that I have satisfied this question in already.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:17 PM   #7
My name is Michael. J. Caboose, and I hate BABIES!
 
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I honestly think that thread should be stickied as it took me 45 minutes to find the one that had the information I needed. And to boot, I wasn't even using the right search terms in the first place.

Thank you Skidmark, I will be showing that to my brother and my friend.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:19 PM   #8
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I remember skidmark stated that any kind of exhausts that are noticeably louder than factory stocks can be considered illegal.

Last edited by cococly; 03-08-2010 at 10:21 PM. Reason: edited
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:31 AM   #9
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The reason that I said that it appeared something was missing, is that your earlier posts were unclear. From what you posted I could not pick out that Police had or had not listened to both your vehicles. It seemed to be saying that they had listened to his, but not yours and just gave you a VI for no reason other than a neighbour complaint?

I still find it unusual procedure to issue a VI for a car whose only mod is an illegally modified exhaust, based on a neighbour complaint. I would never personally have issued one under that circumstance, probably a VT or a #3 N&O, but that's just me...and not on a neighbour complaint. I would have had to have stopped the car being driven on a highway somewhere. I would also only have issued a VI if I believed that the owner of the car would NOT comply with either a #3 N&O and/or a VT. I'm assuming Skidmark is of similar mind on this?
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:19 AM   #10
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Ahh, I see. My apologies. I wrote that the morning after it happened, shortly after I woke up and I was still pretty choked at my neighbour.

Other than the modifications I listed on the FD (that being the pre-silencer and the silencer) the FD is stock, not even lowered. I could ask my friend if he would mind me posting pictures if that would help. It's also a RHD.

The FC I'm unclear on. It's a RHD import and went through inspection when it was brought over and deemed legal. I'm not sure what mods, if any, my brother has done to his car. I'm fairly sure they're engine mods though (ie. new bov, etc) if he has. He's on the site, but chosen to ignore the thread, so I'm guessing he wants no part of my questions lol.

The thing is, the second VI that was received, he (the fd) showed up well before the 10pm bylaw and the neighbour called it in as an excessive noise complaint. And both my brother and my friend stated that they would get the VI done.

In my personal opinion, I think if no one had mentioned my brother's VI, my friend would not have been given one. The Officer's demeanor seemed to change shortly after he was informed of it. Would that change your mind about issuing a VI?
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:31 AM   #11
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Inaii, can you post Skidmark's thread on VI's?
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:28 AM   #12
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http://www.revscene.net/forums/have-...wn-t49604.html

There you go Was a couple threads down from this one.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:27 PM   #13
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As I can't see the car and do an inspection I can't reallly offer anything but a general observation. I have seen JDM vehicles that "passed inspections" and I have seen ones that really passed inspections. When you have dealers who sell the cars doing the "inspections" there is a great temptation to cut corners or, as in some cases, do virtually nothing and claim they are inspected and compliant. I see cars on a regular basis that have HID "conversion kits" installed, no reflectors, lenses and reflectors that are not DOT/TS "compliant" etc. If they skimped on the lights, what else did they ignore? I'm NOT saying your cars fall into that catagory but that may have entered into the thought process for the VIs? Too many possibilities in this whole scenario to say much more.

I would not issue a VI on a neighbour complaint. The VI should be issued only on it's own merits. If the car is non-compliant then the VI is an option. I don't know the officer and I was not there during the entire conversation so I cannot comment on what motivated the inspection. Sorry.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:42 PM   #14
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i could understand me being issued a VT for noise as i came home at a late hour, but it's not like i haven't driven the car in the neighbourhood at all, ever.

i have never received a VT for my exhaust in the 2 years i have driven the car.

i was also issued my VI based solely on a neighbour complaint.

i came home at about 3.30am, drove up my alley (i'm about 4-5 houses in) and parked my car. this took no more than 2 minutes top.

around 4-4.30am someone started banging on my front door like the house was on fire, when my roommates opened the door they were confronted by our irate neighbour who i can only assume was on the phone with 911. the person on the phone then told him to leave.

about 20-30 mins after that, 2 squad cars showed up in my back alley, no sirens but lights on.
after talking for a minute or two, the Cpl. asked me to start my car (which is parked in my car port backed up against a cement wall at least 4.5ft tall, and also has a fairly low roof.)

we are nearing 4.45-5.00 now, i have been home for almost 1.5hrs, fair amount of time for my car to cool down, so my AWS kicked in (automated warmup system, designed to warm up the engine faster to get the cat up to temp faster, so it holds the idle higher for around 30 seconds. i didn't look at the tach but i would assume it to be at around 1k-1.5krpm.) this in an enclosed space would amplify the volume of the exhaust.

so essentially i was issued a box 2, on my own property, based on a neighbour's complaint who lives across the street from the FRONT of my house, without the officer hearing my exhaust prior to those conditions.

i would appreciate if someone could point me in the direction of an exhaust shop in the GVRD that has a dB meter, i want to get a reading of my exhaust before i change anything.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:27 PM   #15
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i just went through this today. got pulled over for the same thing for my car being unecessarilly loud. cop presented the facts in front ofg the judge that 83 db is the legal limit and he's trained by ear back in 1990 to do so. he went as far as compairing my car to standing beside a jack hammer.

i replaced my exhaust system because it was completely rotten with holes all over it. i put a resonator from a lexus rx330, a dual chambered flowmaster 40 series with a resonated tip.

i stated that no matter what our personal opinions are the limit is 83 decibles and that is non arguable just like the speed limit. and mva reg. 7.03 says that it's only illegal if it you add anything that would make your car excessively loud and shoot flames(excessive is anything past 83)and i would never question a cop about the law but when it comes to just vehicles that me being a collision tech and working on vehicles for a living, my opinion based on examples i gave of things that are 83 db, standing beside a lawn mover, a diesel truck n traffic, a train horn at 500' and his being standing by a jack hammer, my car is no where near any of them and i even said we could go to my car right now and ill bet you all the money i have that there's no way my car is as loud as a jack hammer the only thing i can think of that would maybe come close is a ferrari v10 at WOT and i own a 95 max lol.

in short the judge basically just took the cops words for it instead of basing her decision on facts. so now i have to pay the ticket, not a VI.

the only way to prove the cop wrong is to get it inspected and i asked if i could get mine inspected and have the ruling overturned after i show the papers and the judge said no. so i suggest just get your car inspected.
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:39 PM   #16
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I have already stated numerous times that they are both going through with the VI, despite their thoughts of it being unfair. Also, no VT's were issued by either of the RCMP involved.
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I WILL EAT YOUR RICE!
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