Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S
(Post 6857337)
Actually, the reason most relationships fail is that couples are not honest with each other. Well, actually, it's usually money. THEN it's dishonesty. If the guy hides his love for/use of pornography until they are 1-2 years into a relationship (or until she moves in, which is often the case), then she suddenly feels violated or like she is inadequate. By that same token, if she never mentions her loathing of pornography or her use of sex toys when he leaves her unsatisfied, that would fall under a similar category, no?
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I used to think it was money but ironically, money is a smokescreen for larger underlying issues. Most people do argue about money but the reason people argue about money is because they feel the other person is violating their ideals or principles. This is typical when one person feels the other party is irresponsible with money, or that their expectations of money differ. I would agree with you that anything that kills honesty, kills the realtionship. I don't think there is one exclusive deal breakers in a realtionship but rather a few things that can cause problems. While I do agree with you comment above, I think we've drawn a little off the path here. The concern is when what you're doing becomes an addiction. In your ice cream example, there are cases where there could be cause for alarm as someone can become addicted to just about anything.
The main point was that porn addiction is one of the hardest, if not the most hardest addicitions to overcome and it can have tragic effects on relationships. It can also have an effect on a personal life of a single person as well to be fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S
(Post 6857337)
Why not? Why shouldn't sex be viewed in a transactional basis like everything else is? What makes sex so special? Morality? Christian mores?
My family has an odd habit of getting into discussions at family gatherings--and several of my aunts and uncles are anthropologists. We had a very interesting discussion about a tribal village in which men cannot create children--they simply allow women to release them. As a result, there is no concept of philandery, since there is no concept of monogamy--the children of the village are the children of the village; all of the men are the fathers.
So what makes sex different, and why is transactionizing sex 'heading in the [wrong] direction?'
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Again, I can think of some great arguments for saying 'yes' to transactional sex or various elements of sexuality. Like it or not, I think society has been there for a long time. I think the concept of this change when we ourselves are in this situation. I guess a good case in point is how many people would be okay never having a girlfriend or boyfriend but still have sex? How many people could have sexual realations with someone and not fall in love? How many people could fall in love, want to be with someone, but allow freedom of sexuality with that partner?
I'm not suggesting that it's a no for everyone, but it's not a yes for everyone either. Again though, we're straying away from the initial point of addiction. If what you're doing is not hurting yourself or anyone else, then what's the harm? There isn't in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S
(Post 6857337)
I agree, if she is doing it in place of being intimate. However, you imply that pornography replaces sexual contact with a partner. In truth, for most men, it is simply something that will allow them to take care of their needs at their own pace in their own time. I am, admittedly, a copious masturbator, and yet I have NO issues insofar as intimacy with significant others and/or people with whom I have sex. Your implication that pornography and masturbation replace intimacy with a partner is a misrepresentation.
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I agree as well, as you mentioned, so long as it is not hurting the other person. While pornography may not have the effect of substitution for you or I, the scary thing is that there are countless cases of people in that very situation. It's like if you and I go grab a beer. If we have a few drinks and then go home, there isn't much harm in that. However if I'm missing work or drinking all the time, there might be a problem. Just because we can have a drink and walk away, there are countless others that have a problem controlling themselves.
This is a big problem because we legally have to be 19 in order to have a beer. Pornography now, due to the computer age, is for all to see. There are kids in primary grades talking about stuff I didn't even know about until I was in my later teens - and I was not a sheltered child.
Coupled with the clinical proof that pornography is more addictive than drugs, I find that dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S
(Post 6857337)
I'm snipping your last paragraph here 'cause this is the only part I think you and I see eye-to-eye on. Honesty is what's necessary, and I think you and I are coming at this perspective with a different idea of what an 'emotionally healthy sexual relationship' is.
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I have a feeling we might agree on far more than this, however the way I worded my first post may have made it look more like a specific case rather then the overall general element of the addiction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S
(Post 6857337)
Now, you said that a man would promise to 'delete the material' to keep his girl/wife happy. This is the essential problem. Not the porn itself, but the man lying to his woman. The man lying to the woman in saying that he will delete it and never use it again. Yet, he is lying because he is often being forced--"You're cheating on me if you're looking at porn!". But why do we have this view? Again, why is it that transactional sex--even with oneself--is a bad thing?
Communication is a key point in relationships, and I am a dirty old man. I cannot think of a single person I know (relatives included, sadly), who do not know this. I am upfront and honest--sex is important to me, and even if my partner and I are having a great deal of congress on a regular basis, I still have the need to relax on my own schedule, on my own time, with my long-time FWB, Palmela. Communication [of desires and needs] and Education [of the idea that sex does not need to be dealt with in a non-transactional method] are the key factors in eliminating the concept of 'addiction' related to pornography.
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This is a grey area although I agree about the honest part. Addiction is classified as something that you cannot stop that is not required. As a man, I would agree, stopping sex, while not a killer right away, is a one way ticket to death. For many women this is also true. We are hard wired to have sex and when it's not there, we as a semi-advanced society, find ways to deal with it (since we've banned clubbing woman and dragging them back to the cave).
At the end of the day though, it's when we use the man made elements to substitute the real thing, or when it has an effect on our lives that is damaging. I'm not saying NEVER watch porn, just that it's something that can sneak up on a person and clutch them with an addiction that is hard to break free from.
The younger generation will be a good test of this due to the ease of obtaining that material.
