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03-12-2010, 11:37 PM
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#1 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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| The province of Quebec shows ugly side to minorities
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What part of the word "freedom" does Quebec not understand? Two news stories this week should leave the rest of Canada scratching its head over just how clear la belle province is on the concept.
In the first incident, an Egyptian immigrant named Naema Ahmed was tossed out of a French class for newcomers to the province because she was wearing a niqab, a veil that leaves only the eyes exposed. One of the recommendations that came out of the Bouchard-Taylor commission in 2008 on religious and minority accommodation was that judges, Crown attorneys, police and jail guards not be allowed to wear religious symbols. Ahmed is none of those. She was a student at Montreal's Cegep St-Laurent. In fact, the commission recommended that students be permitted to wear hijabs, kippahs, turbans, etc. in class if they want to, something that is already happening because in Canada, one is free to dress as one pleases. Regardless, none of these taboos are enshrined in law -- yet.
The niqab is not a religious symbol, but a tribal one, and to western cultures it represents the subsuming of a woman's identity to patriarchal dictates. Here in Canada, we don't think women should cover their faces. And we think immigrant women need to realize this.
That is where Quebec Immigration Minister Yolande James went wrong. According to CTV, James herself asked in writing for Ahmed to remove her niqab or face expulsion. Why is a cabinet minister hounding a private citizen? That's appalling.
Paul-Emile Bourque, the Cegep's director general, said Ahmed had originally agreed to remove her niqab. Then, she removed it when a woman adviser was present, but didn't want men in the class to see her face. Eventually, she refused altogether. After she was booted from class -- ostensibly because the niqab interfered with the teacher helping her with pronunciation -- she was told to take the course online. Ahmed has complained to the Quebec Human Rights Commission.
How many times have we heard grumbling about immigrants who can't be bothered learning either of Canada's two official languages? Here was Ahmed, taking a French class so she could integrate into Canadian society -- a process which could lead to her adopting western ways of thinking and abandoning the niqab of her own free will -- and she was denied schooling. Denying women schooling smacks most unpleasantly of the Taliban regime, doesn't it?
Where Quebec errs in its obsession about minorities is in thinking it has a right to tell people what to wear. James says there's some talk about legislating the wearing of head coverings. Since when does a government in a democracy legislate what people can wear? And how will such legislation be enforced? Would women like Ahmed be thrown in jail? Fined? Dragged into court, needlessly clogging up already backlogged dockets?
Westernization can't be forced on an immigrant from the outside. It has to take root and grow, like new tendrils appearing on a vine and reaching out in different directions; it's an evolutionary process, not a sudden metamorphosis. Ahmed was initiating it herself by learning French.
In another bizarre spasm of minority-phobia, the Quebec government announced that 20 government-subsidized day-care centres will be banned from offering religious instruction. One is an Islamic-run centre in Laval, and another is Montreal's Beth Rivkah day care, where, according to its website, the children's "activities are driven by the spirit of Torah and the Jewish tradition." Hard to know what the government is so terrified of. It's not like non-Muslim or non-Jewish parents will be sending their children to those day-care centres to be proselytized. It's quite obvious who the clientele will be.
The government says it plans to meet with the day-care operators, according to CBC, to "work with them to eliminate religion from their program." Annie Turcot, speaking for a group of publicly funded day-care centres in the Montreal area, says that a daycare's mission "is really to help families integrate into Quebec culture."
That's news to me. I thought a daycare's mission was to mind people's kids while the parents are at work. I'm not sure how practising one's faith and placing children in a day care where that faith is transmitted to them prevents integration into "Quebec culture." And since when do Jews need to be integrated into Quebec culture? The majority of them in Montreal are descendants of people who came to Canada a century or more ago.
In the late 19th century, brochures were circulated in Europe advertising for immigrants to Canada and extolling the beauties and prosperity of this country. Maybe new brochures should be circulated -- warning people to stay away from Quebec, which is fast becoming the most hostile province in Canada for anyone of a minority culture or religion.
nlakritz@theherald. canwest.com
© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald
http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/La...#ixzz0i2mmVs2i | .
Last edited by Harvey Specter; 03-13-2010 at 12:10 AM.
Reason: link to article
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03-12-2010, 11:48 PM
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#2 | | Banned (ABWS)
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it's only a matter of time before Quebec leaves Canada. No more french hotties. QQ
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03-12-2010, 11:54 PM
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#3 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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Always interesting how a headline or an editorial can be written to influence opinion.
From what else I've read and seen/heard, considerable effort was made to accommodate Ahmed. This editorial doesn't mention any of this. Quote: |
In another bizarre spasm of minority-phobia, the Quebec government announced that 20 government-subsidized day-care centres will be banned from offering religious instruction.
| GOOD! The taxpayer's dollar in a secular society should not go to subsidize religious instruction. .... and yes, I know that there are forms of religious instruction that are currently taxpayer-funded (Catholic schools in Ontario). I don't think that there should be any.
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03-13-2010, 12:18 AM
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#4 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
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nabs - Brianrietta are you trying to Mindbomber me? using big words to try to confuse me
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Babykiller - And next to that, there's a little dot called a period. It's not the stuff you eat out of your sisters gash, it's a handy little tool for breaking up sentences so they don't look like nonsensical retard garbage. | |
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03-13-2010, 12:25 AM
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#5 | | :inoutugh:
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Do you guys think Quebec will ever split apart from Canada, and what would happen to the maritime provinces and the country as a whole?
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03-13-2010, 12:42 AM
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#6 | | RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
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Don't have an opinion on covering the face part, but I always prefer to see a separation between the church and the state.
Government should not get involved in the promotion of any religion, regardless if it is Christianity, Muslim, or Buddhism.
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03-13-2010, 01:09 AM
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#7 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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^ 
government money should NOT be promoting any religion
and the niqab girl was causing a disturbance to her classmates, demanding them face the other way, i think both cases are legit
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03-13-2010, 02:15 AM
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#8 | | 14 dolla balla & Bradford Chow aint got nothing on me!
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Whether it be Niqabs, sikh daggers, turbans or w.e other cultural/religious item, i think immigrants should realize that they have MOVED to a different place, where the norm is without such.
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03-13-2010, 03:09 AM
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#9 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by XtC-604  Whether it be Niqabs, sikh daggers, turbans or w.e other cultural/religious item, i think immigrants should realize that they have MOVED to a different place, where the norm is without such. | White people didn't leave there r cultural/religious items behind fact every were white people go they try to force other people to act like them.
Go to any country find some white people and I bet yoou they will not have changed. http://www.travelnotes.org/General/C...test/saudi.htm
"My 1997 Christmas in Saudi Arabia had more spirit than any other time I've ever had. I found the expatriate underground who found lots of ways to celebrate the holiday.
There were numerous parties at friends' houses with loads of food and handmade decorations. We attended a Christmas Concert with 40 people in a Choir who sang their hearts out. There was even a play for the kids that touched on Christmas." http://www.aramcoexpats.com/Photos/L...ives/2016.aspx 
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03-13-2010, 09:24 AM
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#10 | | Banned By Establishment
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short lesson...Quebec is fucked up. Crazy little province they have there.
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03-13-2010, 09:46 AM
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#11 | | what manner of phaggotry is this
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic! White people didn't leave there r cultural/religious items behind fact every were white people go they try to force other people to act like them.
Go to any country find some white people and I bet yoou they will not have changed. http://www.travelnotes.org/General/C...test/saudi.htm
"My 1997 Christmas in Saudi Arabia had more spirit than any other time I've ever had. I found the expatriate underground who found lots of ways to celebrate the holiday.
There were numerous parties at friends' houses with loads of food and handmade decorations. We attended a Christmas Concert with 40 people in a Choir who sang their hearts out. There was even a play for the kids that touched on Christmas." http://www.aramcoexpats.com/Photos/L...ives/2016.aspx | i didnt read your links, but from what your posted it sounds like the white guy in saudi celebrated christmas basically "in his own home" or with a small collection of other whites. i bet you he didnt walk down the streets reading the bible or wearing a KKK hood which is effectively what other religions are doing in Canada.
hell, even white christians cant celebrate their own religion in Canada anymore. notice the lack of anything "Merry Christmas" in December in the last 10 years? if the majority cant celebrate their religous beliefs (the ones this country was founded on) openly in public, why should the minorities be able to?
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Last edited by RRxtar; 03-13-2010 at 09:51 AM.
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03-13-2010, 12:08 PM
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#12 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar i didnt read your links, but from what your posted it sounds like the white guy in saudi celebrated christmas basically "in his own home" or with a small collection of other whites. i bet you he didnt walk down the streets reading the bible or wearing a KKK hood which is effectively what other religions are doing in Canada.
hell, even white christians cant celebrate their own religion in Canada anymore. notice the lack of anything "Merry Christmas" in December in the last 10 years? if the majority cant celebrate their religous beliefs (the ones this country was founded on) openly in public, why should the minorities be able to? | They broke the law to celebrate Christmas. White Christians can't celebrate Christmas in Canada or the US is a myth. Minorities and other religious groups don't care. I always say Merry Christmas to my customers.
I have had a number of people try to convert me to Christianity at a sky train station, mall, and 2 weeks ago at the store I work at.
Whats the point of this film:
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03-13-2010, 12:31 PM
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#13 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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there's truth in everything that's been said in this thread and the original article
like the writer said Ahmed was making attempts to conform to Canadian society, you can't expect her to change over night
westerners don't conform.. wherever they go they push their beliefs and force change to their worldview.. if you can't see that your either stupid or being an ass
the government is in the right when they demand govt. subsidized programs to remove religion from their itinerary
there's a clear middle, and correct, ground here that should be plainly seen, but everyone seems to be taking a slightly off centre viewpoint
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03-13-2010, 12:53 PM
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#14 | | In RS I Trust
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Kinda off but still on he topic but I was wondering in a public elementry school if anyone was ever made to listen to a script out of the bible in the morning? I'm just asked because when I started I had to every monday morning. I'm only 28 so I'm not that old as well. Posted via RS Mobile | |
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03-13-2010, 01:13 PM
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#15 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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nope never had to, we're the same age
i went to lord selkirk
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03-13-2010, 01:30 PM
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#16 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed there's truth in everything that's been said in this thread and the original article
like the writer said Ahmed was making attempts to conform to Canadian society, you can't expect her to change over night
westerners don't conform.. wherever they go they push their beliefs and force change to their worldview.. if you can't see that your either stupid or being an ass
the government is in the right when they demand govt. subsidized programs to remove religion from their itinerary
there's a clear middle, and correct, ground here that should be plainly seen, but everyone seems to be taking a slightly off centre viewpoint |
well if we werent right, then the rest of the world wouldnt be copying us 
the crazy middle east will come round eventually, and if they dont, and they cant play nice, then the rest of the world will have to take care of it
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Originally Posted by RRxtar Ugliness and fatness are genetic disorders, much like baldness or necrophilia, and it's only your fault if you don't hate yourself enough to do something about it. | | |
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03-13-2010, 02:43 PM
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#17 | | My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
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Originally Posted by TOS'd Do you guys think Quebec will ever split apart from Canada, and what would happen to the maritime provinces and the country as a whole? | I wouldn't mind if they did that...
IF THEY DID, I hope they ban the language french west of Quebec across Canada.
Quebec is god damn annoying.
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03-13-2010, 10:39 PM
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#18 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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Originally Posted by RRxtar hell, even white christians cant celebrate their own religion in Canada anymore. notice the lack of anything "Merry Christmas" in December in the last 10 years? if the majority cant celebrate their religous beliefs (the ones this country was founded on) openly in public, why should the minorities be able to? | If you can't celebrate, that has more to do with you playing victim than anything. You're pointing your fingers at the wrong ppl.
Minorities don't care. They're not the ones changing the wording around. They buy gifts and put up a tree and light their house like everyone else. Mall customers don't all of a sudden turn white during Christmas season.
It's like a good chunk of ppl get their info from the same sources you do.
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03-13-2010, 10:53 PM
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#19 | | I have named my kids VIC and VLS
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Let Quebec seperate, give them no money whatsoever as a parting gift, and see how long before they are begging to rejoin Canada
i say BC and Alberta split off and see how the rest of Canada fairs that way.
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03-13-2010, 11:13 PM
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#20 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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one of u should go to class dressed like this, im sure they will kick u out also 
anyhow, call me racist but
this doesn't work with me.  | |
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03-13-2010, 11:23 PM
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#21 | | "Entertainment" mod.
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Originally Posted by Hondaracer Let Quebec seperate, give them no money whatsoever as a parting gift, and see how long before they are begging to rejoin Canada
i say BC and Alberta split off and see how the rest of Canada fairs that way. | Back when they wanted to separate, they WANTED money from us as a parting gift. Fuck that, give it to the Maritime provinces so they can survive even though they're cut off from the rest of Canada.
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03-13-2010, 11:23 PM
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#22 | | ninja edits your posts without your knowledge
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Guys, this is Quebec we're talking about...
The ONLY place in Canada where racism is openly accepted and it is a norm to bet on when your anglophone (or anyone outside the francophone community) neighbour is going to move out because of the discrimination.
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03-13-2010, 11:33 PM
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#23 | | "Entertainment" mod.
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Originally Posted by CRS Guys, this is Quebec we're talking about...
The ONLY place in Canada where racism is openly accepted and it is a norm to bet on when your anglophone (or anyone outside the francophone community) neighbour is going to move out because of the discrimination. | That is one of the most backwards things I have ever heard of occurring in Canada. Are they even remotely aware that racism paints them as inbred hicks? Do they even realize how far racism has come in the last 50 years? Have they even HEARD of the Civil Rights Movement or Apartheid? Maybe they share more similarities with people in the Southern United States than with the rest of Canada. Why not give Quebec to the US and replace their fleur-de-lis with the Confederate flag? And instead of betting on anglophones leaving, why not burn white crosses in their front yards, or better yet, lynch them?
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03-14-2010, 12:23 AM
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#24 | | Hypa owned my ass at least once
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Not a fan of niqab. But people should differentiate that this is not a descrimination of race nor religious denomination.
It's just people whose identities are publically hidden by items like bandanas or balaclavas have an effect of unsettling the people surrounding them. Unfortunately because Niqabs have the same characteristics, therefore also have the same initial effect on people (at first glance at the least).
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03-14-2010, 11:05 AM
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#25 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar hell, even white christians cant celebrate their own religion in Canada anymore. notice the lack of anything "Merry Christmas" in December in the last 10 years? if the majority cant celebrate their religous beliefs (the ones this country was founded on) openly in public, why should the minorities be able to? | im sorry if i dont remember. but who said it wasnt right to say "merry christmas" im not christian but i couldnt give 2 flying fucks if its christmas, easter, ramadan, kwanzaa, chinese new year or whatever you wanna celebrate. the whole merry christmas thing to me is just white people trying to be wayyy to politically correct for their own good.
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