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Old 03-15-2010, 11:29 PM   #1
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b18c1 or b16a?

hey i am swapping the engine out of my 1997 integra LS, and im not sure what engine to get i am leaning more towards the b18c1, but i have met some people who swear by the b16a. also i was wondering a good place to pick up one of these engines, just a website? or a place in town somewhere?
any feedback is appreciated. Thanks
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:33 PM   #2
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I never understood the idea of going down in displacement. As well the CTR motor is more hype than anything for the price. It costs more than an ITR motor. Ugh.

For best bang for the buck go B18C1.

Give Garage 5 a call. I got mine from them.

What are you going to be doing with your old motor? =D
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:51 PM   #3
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i'd rather get a BC18C1, but if you can get a B18C5.

i'd rather have the torque, especially since the integra is heavier than the civic sir which the b16a was sold with in cdn
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by lexluthor09 View Post
I never understood the idea of going down in displacement. As well the CTR motor is more hype than anything for the price. It costs more than an ITR motor. Ugh.

For best bang for the buck go B18C1.

Give Garage 5 a call. I got mine from them.

What are you going to be doing with your old motor? =D
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:10 AM   #5
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Is your motor blown or something?

Another option if your motor is in good working order, is to do the whole LS/Vtec conversion. This type of conversion isn't as sketchy as it once was, as there are kits out there specifically for this (Golden Eagle has a good one).

Only reason I suggest this is because finding a good, low km B18c1 is still going to be expensive. Though you might be able to score a nice JDM motor. If you do go this route, be patient and wait for a good motor. Even if it means spending a few more bucks. Forget the B16!

I also got my motor from Garage 5, they're a good place to start, as well as some of the sponsers.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:17 AM   #6
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C1 for sure
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:00 AM   #7
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no question

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Old 03-16-2010, 10:45 AM   #8
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b18c1 for sure... my car came with a b16a and i LOVE it! people love the b16a's because of it's historical significance but if you're swapping in a motor without the intentions of building a historically correct car then go for the bigger displacement.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Spoon_Fed View Post
Is your motor blown or something?

Another option if your motor is in good working order, is to do the whole LS/Vtec conversion. This type of conversion isn't as sketchy as it once was, as there are kits out there specifically for this (Golden Eagle has a good one).

Only reason I suggest this is because finding a good, low km B18c1 is still going to be expensive. Though you might be able to score a nice JDM motor. If you do go this route, be patient and wait for a good motor. Even if it means spending a few more bucks. Forget the B16!

I also got my motor from Garage 5, they're a good place to start, as well as some of the sponsers.
ya i think i would go with b18c1 after all. no the motor in my car isnt blown but it has a minor head gasket and oil pan leak and it can only get worse, also I am determined to have a vtec motor. I was thinking of doing a vtec conversion a while ago but was told that its much more than just throwing a new head on it, theres many other things that need replacing along with it.
but I would be up for a rebuild of my motor, got a nice big garage and plenty of time.
also, anyone know what parts do need to be changed to adapt to the vtec head? THANKS!!
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:32 PM   #10
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b20 an option?

theres no replacement for displacement... and you should have like at least 30tq more with a b20.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:54 PM   #11
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b16a/b16a2/b16b aren't bad engines they just lack torque.

i agree that you should go with a b18c1 instead of getting b16 especially in a DC. ls/vtec is something i would do instead of an entire engine/tranny swap.

off the top of my head, you would need:

head gasket (which you need anyways)
vtec head (b16a/b16a2/b18c1/b18c5 etc etc)
vtec wiring harness
ecu

you would want to change:
timing belt
waterpump
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:34 PM   #12
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ya i think i would go with b18c1 after all. no the motor in my car isnt blown but it has a minor head gasket and oil pan leak and it can only get worse, also I am determined to have a vtec motor. I was thinking of doing a vtec conversion a while ago but was told that its much more than just throwing a new head on it, theres many other things that need replacing along with it.
but I would be up for a rebuild of my motor, got a nice big garage and plenty of time.
also, anyone know what parts do need to be changed to adapt to the vtec head? THANKS!!
Keep in mind there are SO many horror stories out there from people who have tried the LS/Vtec conversion (which would obviously give you the vtec engagment you're after). But there are just as many horror stories out there from failed swaps, buying a motor thats a peice of shit, etc etc. As long as you do it PROPERLY, there is no reason an LS/Vtec would be any less reliable than another other motor.

I'm not dumping on the other choices, because I would love a B18c1 myself! But here is the kit I mentioned in my first post:

http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index....roducts_id=310

Seriously, you can't ask for anything more! Definately makes your life easier. Finding a good b16 head (I'm pretty sure this is the ideal head to use when doing this conversion) shouldn't be too hard either.

Especially if you have the space and garage to do this. Chances are this route might end up being quite a bit cheaper than buying a whole new motor. Do a search on www.honda-tech.com to read up on it if you're interested.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:43 PM   #13
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Keep in mind there are SO many horror stories out there from people who have tried the LS/Vtec conversion (which would obviously give you the vtec engagment you're after). But there are just as many horror stories out there from failed swaps, buying a motor thats a peice of shit, etc etc. As long as you do it PROPERLY, there is no reason an LS/Vtec would be any less reliable than another other motor.

I'm not dumping on the other choices, because I would love a B18c1 myself! But here is the kit I mentioned in my first post:

http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index....roducts_id=310

Seriously, you can't ask for anything more! Definately makes your life easier. Finding a good b16 head (I'm pretty sure this is the ideal head to use when doing this conversion) shouldn't be too hard either.

Especially if you have the space and garage to do this. Chances are this route might end up being quite a bit cheaper than buying a whole new motor. Do a search on www.honda-tech.com to read up on it if you're interested.
alright thanks for the help man. that probly would be a good route to go, seeing as the b18b engine i have now is working just fine but it lacks the power of the vtec and like i stated i just need to deal with the 2 minor oil leaks, it would save me lots of money. ill have to look up to find what is the best head!
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:16 AM   #14
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b18b's aren't exactly weak. can i ask what mods you have so far on the DC?

exhaust? header? IM? TB? intake? plugs/wires?
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:57 AM   #15
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B18C , no replacement for displacement
BTW LS/Vtecs are unreliable shit. Cause of their horrid R/S ratio.
Go read up on the whole R/S ratio.
You'll see why these things tend to blow up.
Its cheap and quite powerful for the time it runs.
But if you want something that will last, go with a built B18C
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:12 AM   #16
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B18C , no replacement for displacement
BTW LS/Vtecs are unreliable shit. Cause of their horrid R/S ratio.
Go read up on the whole R/S ratio.
You'll see why these things tend to blow up.
Its cheap and quite powerful for the time it runs.
But if you want something that will last, go with a built B18C
well that is quite discouraging, what about rebuilding b18b internals still but leaving ls head and maybe turbo or sc? or would it make more sense to go with b18c

thanks for all the help so far guys!
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:22 PM   #17
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Personally I would go with the b18c1 over the b16a.. reason being b18c = more torque and power.

But.. You would pretty much have to decide what you want to do,and how much you want to spend. if you just want a decent swap with potential, go with the B16, if you want to turbo and fully build your motor in the future go with the B18.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:45 AM   #18
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Honestly, there is no point of swapping in a B16 unless it was given to you for cheaper than finder another B18B. In city driving, the B16 will feel even more gutless than the car already does. B16 ~112lbs TQ while the B18B ~127lbs TQ, IIRC. That's almost 15% more TQ. Where the B16 will shine is north of 7000RPM, otherwise, you'd be making the same power as stock.

Your motor might have some hidden damage due to the blown head gasket, it's not a good choice to build up. If your going to do the frankenmotor swap, start piecing it together now while your current engine dies slowly. Also, let a shop do this kind of swap. You don't want to forget anything. I'd go with the GSR swap personally, Honda engineers built things a certain way for a reason.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:47 AM   #19
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Personally I would go with the b18c1 over the b16a.. reason being b18c = more torque and power.

But.. You would pretty much have to decide what you want to do,and how much you want to spend. if you just want a decent swap with potential, go with the B16, if you want to turbo and fully build your motor in the future go with the B18.
If you're going to swap anyways, why not pay the bit more for the B18C, has more power out of the box, alot more potential. Like eg, if he plans on going boost later, more displacement = more exhaust gas = faster spooling = able to theoretically use a bigger turbo than the B16 while having the same spool time.

And Derek128, get a life. Just cause you cheaped out and made frankenstein pos, what i've stated is fact.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:46 PM   #20
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well that is quite discouraging, what about rebuilding b18b internals still but leaving ls head and maybe turbo or sc? or would it make more sense to go with b18c

thanks for all the help so far guys!
Don't get discouraged. I told you, there will ALWAYS be people who are against the whole LS/Vtec, and there will ALWAYS be the die hards who swear by this conversion. I'm really neither; rather, someone who can appreciate both arguements. But like I said before, LS/Vtec conversions can be reliable. I know of a couple people who have done this, and neither one of them have had any issues.

Try calling around to a few of the local shops, like some of the sponsers/Garage 5. See what they say. Most of these shops have most likely done all of your suggestions a million times over. They'll know the first hand pros and cons. Not to mention the cost of each route.

Bottom line, you'll have a car that's waaay more fun to drive in the end!
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Old 03-20-2010, 03:08 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by XtC-604 View Post
B18C , no replacement for displacement
BTW LS/Vtecs are unreliable shit. Cause of their horrid R/S ratio.
Go read up on the whole R/S ratio.
You'll see why these things tend to blow up.
Its cheap and quite powerful for the time it runs.
But if you want something that will last, go with a built B18C
if a LS/Vtec blow up, its not cause by the R/S ratio


rod bolts, crank and sleeve are the weaknesses of LS/Vtec

OEM LS rod bolts cannot take the strength of high reving
the balance of LS crank isn't as gd as B16,B18C
these 2 can be "fixed" by using ARP rod bolts & balance out the Crank

the stock LS sleeve is weaker than B18C
re-sleeving is the way to fix it
using block guard(some against it since it decreaces the surface area of cooling) or work on the piston speeds/load are ways to work around it
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:21 AM   #22
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LS-V has come a long way since the experimental days. when done right, they are reliable
here's a breakdown of the parts list to add onto what you now have:
-pr3 or p72 head (personally, i'd go with the pr3 for compatibility)
-obd1 vtec ecu (chipped p28 will suffice)
-obd1 dohc vtec distributor
-a compatible intake manifold
-golden eagle or similar ls-vtec kit (not 100% necessary, but makes life so much easier, and well worth the price)
-ARP head studs and rod bolts
-b16, b18c1-5 oil pump
-b16, b18c1-5 waterpump
-b18c timing belt

i think that about covers it. with those parts, you should be pretty much good to go.
as i'd mentioned in your other thread, i also have a set of p30 pistons which, with your ls rods, would bump compression considerably when mated to a pr3 head. higher than type R, IIRC
IMO, if you're not boosting, your sleeves, if in good shape, should be fine. most ls-v's throw rods due to the weaker bolts. as stated previously, the ARP's should correct for that.
you're right. it's not as simple an affair as most people think. a lot of people who do this swap will do the work themselves. and that saves large
call G5 and get some pricing. they're quite reasonable and know what they're doing. talk to rich. he's a pretty decent guy.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:29 AM   #23
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and for gods sake, don't neglect the tranny. it will make all the difference.
IMHO, i'd just go with a b20z mated to a b16 tranny.
the z is a great motor. you'll have gobs of torque, with awesome acceleration in those short gears. throw your ls 5th gear in for highway and you're set.
it's a relatively cheap alternative. and a great hybrid
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:36 AM   #24
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here's a really good deal if you're thinking of going ls-v.
http://vancouvercivics.com/forums/vi....php?tid=92474
he basically has everything you'd need. just use your bottom end
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:41 AM   #25
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and here's a great deal on a Z. obo as well
http://vancouvercivics.com/forums/vi....php?tid=91956
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