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Old 03-25-2010, 11:12 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by JD像 View Post
Police training of hand to hand combat or control techniques must be non-existent. They either gang beat, taze, or shoot.
Funny you mentioned that because I asked a similar question to my friend who works for the RCMP. He said they are taught to survive no matter what. Based on this situation, the officers would probably give one or two verbal warning before they would use force to subdue the guy. However, they would avoid hand to hand combat if possible because based on their point of view, the officer doesn't know if the guy has a knife hidden in his sleaves or in his pockets. If a hand to hand combat was to happen, the officer's chance of survival is worst than if he was a few feet away, giving him a full tactical view of the situation and allowing him more time to react to the suspect. Also, let say if that was a drug addict, and if the officer tried to physically subdue him, he would probably get poked accidentally from a dirty needle and get infected with an incurable disease - which is quite common than we hear from the media.

Having said that, I still think the police officer was a douche kicking the guy while he was down.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:07 PM   #52
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Funny you mentioned that because I asked a similar question to my friend who works for the RCMP. He said they are taught to survive no matter what. Based on this situation, the officers would probably give one or two verbal warning before they would use force to subdue the guy. However, they would avoid hand to hand combat if possible because based on their point of view, the officer doesn't know if the guy has a knife hidden in his sleaves or in his pockets. If a hand to hand combat was to happen, the officer's chance of survival is worst than if he was a few feet away, giving him a full tactical view of the situation and allowing him more time to react to the suspect.
So cops are trained solely to rely on their weapons, regardless of the situation, and when things get more personal to "just survive". It's suddenly no surprise why 4 of them tazed an unarmed man who didn't speak English, just because he was angry, and kneeled on his neck while they cuffed him... and killed him.

That policy needs to change because people aren't going to put up with this kind of shit anymore. It would probably help if they hired officers with some degree of common sense, because that's something that is clearly lacking in law enforcement in Canada everywhere from beat cops to the highest ranks of our judicial system.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:53 AM   #53
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Some more context:

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Tyler Archer needed help.

Around midnight Saturday, he'd turned the wrong corner and ended up in a fight with people he didn't know on Store Street. His shirt was pulled over his head. He was dealt several hard blows to the head.

"I got out of there and got onto the grass because my face was badly injured," said the 19-year-old Claremont grad, who plays defence for the Junior Shamrocks.

"My friend told the cops I'd been attacked. I wanted to get help, but once they started coming at me, I understood they weren't trying to help me."

More than 200,000 people have seen the Youtube video of Archer being kicked by an unidentified Victoria police officer.

Today, five days after the sharp kick to his ribs, Archer holds himself stiffly and appears close to tears as he recalls the sound of the kick and the pain reverberating through his body.

"I remember screaming. I remember yelling and crying afterward. It was probably the most painful thing, I've ever felt," said the six-foot, five-inch, 250-pound lacrosse player.

The next day, he couldn't get out of bed. When Archer, who has no criminal record, showed his parents the video, his mother Marnie Faust burst into tears, calling the kick "barbaric."

Archer said it still hurts to breathe and he performed miserably at a lacrosse tryout earlier this week. He is suing Victoria police for assault and breach of his Charter rights.

Defence lawyer Richard Neary said his client was confused and trying to comply with police commands. After being handcuffed, Archer was left face down on the ground for about 40 minutes, said Neary. He was treated by paramedics and allowed to go home.

"He's a young man incredibly shook up by what's happened. He's going to need some psychological help as well," said Neary.

Victoria police Chief Jamie Graham said yesterday that "many officers" who have viewed the video are "not shocked at all."

"This is use of force. This is what we're trained to do," Graham said.

The nine-year Victoria officer who inflicted the kicks has been placed on administrative leave and is the subject of an internal investigation by Victoria police and a criminal investigation by the Vancouver police.
http://www.theprovince.com/kicked+se...689/story.html

Cop in the yellow is at fault. I don't see any other reason to focus on anyone else except him. Graham saying officer's aren't shocked at all at the video is bad PR. I would't have revealed that to the press.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:59 AM   #54
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so the one that got kneed was the one that got jumped?
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:35 PM   #55
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so the one that got kneed was the one that got jumped?
Correct.

That's pretty fucked up. Get stomped on by some guys, then go to the cops for help and get stomped on some more.

But according to a lot of people earlier in the thread, he deserved it...
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:44 PM   #56
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as an aside, victim or not, you still should follow police directions.

when the police show up, they have to do the investigation to determine who the actual victim is and who started the fight, etc. so everyone will probably get cuffed for police safety.

but i do lean towards the idea that kicking as a pain compliance technique wasn't generally the best choice...
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:54 PM   #57
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as an aside, victim or not, you still should follow police directions.
Given the fact that he was just dealt blows to the head, he was probably pretty dazed and confused when the cops were giving him directions.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:59 PM   #58
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Given the fact that he was just dealt blows to the head, he was probably pretty dazed and confused when the cops were giving him directions.
But I highly doubt the cops were trained medical staff with a portable cat scan device to determine that that guy indeed had been curbed earlier.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:01 PM   #59
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But I highly doubt the cops were trained medical staff with a portable cat scan device to determine that that guy indeed had been curbed earlier.
What I'm saying is I sympathise with the guy because it may have been difficult for him to even understand what the cops were saying to him.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:05 PM   #60
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lol doesnt matter u dont just show up... start beating ppl up no questions asked

sounds familiar... asian guy house raid anyone
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:30 PM   #61
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The cops show up and need to control the situation ASAP before they go around and figure out whats happened and who hit who.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:05 PM   #62
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That's pretty fucked up. Get stomped on by some guys, then go to the cops for help and get stomped on some more.
Messed up situation to be shitkicked, then booted by those who are supposed to protect you.

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Old 03-26-2010, 10:12 PM   #63
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What I'm saying is I sympathise with the guy because it may have been difficult for him to even understand what the cops were saying to him.
He obviously heard the cop telling him to get down on the ground. If you listen closely the kid in the striped shirt around 19 seconds brings the attention of the yellow jacketed cop to his friend who needs help. He walks over with him and the cop yells at the victim (who was requesting help) to get down on the ground.

Having personally dealt with the cop in the yellow jacket on numerous occasions while bouncing in Victoria I can't say this video surprises me. He's a piece of shit that has no place being a police officer as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:13 PM   #64
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lol i was in victoria that weekend at Upstairs. thank god i didnt go to social club. brown dudes be gettin beat. lmao

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Old 03-28-2010, 10:06 AM   #65
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I don't see the excessive force. Their job is to serve and protect - often amongst the most dangerous in our society. How often do you hear of young cops getting fucked up by groups of people when responding to domestic disputes? There was one recently were a young female officer was attacked so badly that her orbital is now like crushed gravel. I'd expect nothing less than hostility from an arresting officer.
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:33 AM   #66
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Those were all legal UFC blows. There were no kicks to the head or knee's to the head to a downed opponent. I don't see the problem here.

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Old 03-28-2010, 02:29 PM   #67
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Still more to the story.

Six men were eventually taken into custody, but all were released, because the victim refused to co-operate with the investigation.

I want to know why he didn't press charges against the 6 people and why he refuses to cooperate with the police to allow them to lay charges.

This is the kind of thing you usually hear when a gang member gets shot at by another - the victim refuses to cooperate.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:58 PM   #68
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cry more about it.

this is nothing, be lucky you live in Canada... suck it up and go on the ground when the cop tells you... not resist.
first of all, the "just be happy it's not like it is over there" attitude is a fucking bullshit stance. you need to get your head out of your ass, because the way things are somewhere else has nothing to do with what's right or wrong here.
how can any logical person even think that?

secondly, that yellow jacket bozo got boot happy. no resistance when that happened. the second dude followed their orders pretty much immediately.
that officers actions were an embarrassment. where the fuck does he think he is? LA? these weren't hardened criminals holding heat here
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:16 AM   #69
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So after two years, the courts finally found the officers used unnecessary force in this case:

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A Victoria police officer abused his authority and used unnecessary force when he arrested Tyler Archer on March 21, 2010, a hearing has determined.

The kicking and kneeing incident involving constables Chris Bowser, 40, and Brendan Robinson, 26, was captured on video and posted to YouTube, where it has been watched thousands of times. The officers had been called to deal with a brawl outside a bar on Store Street.

On Wednesday, adjudicator Ben Casson, who presided over the hearing ordered by the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner, found both Bowser and Robinson used excessive force during the arrest of Archer, a then 21-year-old Claremont Secondary School graduate who played for the Junior Shamrocks lacrosse team.

Casson found Bowser abused his authority by not intervening when Robinson rushed in and tackled Archer, and by delivering foot and knee strikes to Archers body.

Bowser will face a disciplinary hearing, tentatively scheduled for April 5.

The adjudicator did not find Robinson had abused his authority. Rather, he found Robinson, who was in his first year on the job, made a series of errors before tackling Archer, who was sitting on the ground, about to be handcuffed by Bowser. Casson found Robinson failed to pause and assess the situation, misinterpreted Archers behaviour as non-compliant and failed to give clear commands.

I do not believe that it is the intention of the Police Act to subject a police officer to disciplinary proceedings when they used unnecessary force based on an honest but mistaken perception of an occurrence, Casson said.

Bowsers perception that Archer was a threat should have been dispelled when the young man got down on the ground as he was commanded to do and rolled onto his buttocks, Casson said.

Archers lawyer, Richard Neary, who is also representing him in a civil suit, said the decision has been a long time coming. The way Const. Bowser has been exonerated up to this point has been a real appalling miscarriage of justice. Thats been exposed now and thats a tremendous relief. Bowsers actions were cleared in probes by three other police forces.

I would wager that the City of Victoria has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to defend Bowsers actions and refusing to admit that what happened to Archer was wrong, Neary said.

Its been a long road and Im just relieved that its over, said Archer, who attended Cassons announcement with his mother.

Acting Victoria police chief John Ducker expressed disappointment in the ruling but said the department respects the process. These officers are called to move in on very difficult, very challenging situations . . . and make perfect decisions in a matter of seconds. Ducker said video of the incident provided only a narrow focus. He said it will take careful analysis of the ruling before a decision is made on whether to appeal.

Penalties can range from a verbal warning to dismissal, Ducker said.

These are some of the best officers we have in the department. I dont feel they were acting unreasonably.
Victoria police officer abused authority and used unnecessary force, hearing finds - Local - Times Colonist
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:32 PM   #70
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Bahahahahaha, "Penalties can range from a verbal warning to dismissal, Ducker said." Euphemistic way of saying he's just gonna get a slap on the wrist.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:50 PM   #71
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Bahahahahaha, "Penalties can range from a verbal warning to dismissal, Ducker said." Euphemistic way of saying he's just gonna get a slap on the wrist.
verbal warning: "don't get caught on camera next time"

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Old 03-28-2013, 07:32 PM   #72
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Compared to the bike incident, this one is a legit case of excessive force.

Having said that, it's not easy at the heat of the moment to keep your cool. I would not be good cop material, as I lose it easily. The job is crappy. You know you are being filmed all the time, yet you go in there trying to keep the peace. There are multiple people involved and you have to make quick decisions while at all times worried about being gunned down, stabbed, rocks thrown at you, etc. It could have been a long night for these guys. The dude in yellow jacket did lose it, I agree.

I think Skinny has been saying this all along, "Let's get the whole story first."

As for being suspended with pay, that's normal procedure.

In any case, I would never want to be a cop........ telling people what to do when they don't like being told what to do.

Teachers, principals, supervisors, bosses, security guards, law enforcement officers, you name it. People in authority are under the microscope 24/7. They are all human. Some snap under pressure. Totally understandable. Training is key, but with cutbacks and shit, it isn't always a priority. Then there's the "where do we get people?" When average Joe in our society are a bunch of douchebags, how many good cops can you find/recruit?

No easy answers. Anyway........ there's a hockey game going on.
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