REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Mr Colt · 03-26-2010, 05:15 PM

So i have my wonderful 100" epson projector screen, and lots of fun computer games, but i cant watch tv at the same time, why are there so few picture in picture screens now a days(even tho they are getting bigger) i have no clue. i used to watch lame sd tv and game at the same time with a usb tv card oh so long ago on my ol 20" crt.

times have changed, how do i connect my shaw hdtv box to my computer so i can watch tv on my desktop and game/surf the net/etc at the same time?

i thought this hdmi/component capture card would work, but there may be copy right protection in the way.(i cant find any clear answers, i didn't think 1080i component would have that any ways?)
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

is there any other capture cards or methods i can use?

ivanz · 03-26-2010, 06:31 PM

The only other way is to get an ATSC tuner card and be stuck with the 5 free-to-air channels (CTV, CBC, Global, and Omni, City TV). Shaw encrypts all QAM channels except for 2-3 French ones and the audio channels, so you would get those as well if you plug it into your cable.

Mr Colt · 03-26-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivanz

The only other way is to get an ATSC tuner card and be stuck with the 5 free-to-air channels (CTV, CBC, Global, and Omni, City TV). Shaw encrypts all QAM channels except for 2-3 French ones and the audio channels, so you would get those as well if you plug it into your cable.

ya, but would not a component video feed(rgb cables) itself be unencrypted?

ivanz · 03-26-2010, 07:20 PM

Should work ok....you asked for another way to do it, and that is the only other way I could think of if you wanted HD quality.

Mr Colt · 03-26-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivanz

Should work ok....you asked for another way to do it, and that is the only other way I could think of if you wanted HD quality.

more or less i ment if the black magic couldn't do it some how what could? and can the black magic do it at all?

penner2k · 03-28-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivanz

Should work ok....you asked for another way to do it, and that is the only other way I could think of if you wanted HD quality.

He can still get 720p out of component cables..

Mr Colt · 04-01-2010, 12:40 AM

ok, so i got the blackmagic from ebay, and so far this is what i can get it to do.

it will not play hdmi from the shaw box, or component, but i can get it to display on Composite video/audio.
Which leaves me wondering, is Shaw Component have protection on it? is there any way of bypassing the protection on the shaw box? i have a stupid pvr, i really dont have any intent of recording anything from it onto my computer

also with just the stock drivers it will interface very easly with Media player classic, so even tho its not 1080-720 w/e (yet) this still works quite good for games that you can run in windowed mode, tf2, fallout3, global agenda, all play quite nice with it running.

syee · 04-01-2010, 08:04 AM

It depends on the cable box. If the content is protected via HDCP, then it MUST be played back via HDMI. This means the ability to play back via component will be disabled since they can't manage HDCP over component.

You should be able to verify this pretty easily by plugging the component connections into a TV and seeing if you get picture.

Is there an HDMI connection on your monitor/projector? Probably would be your best bet...

EDIT: Just saw this in the tech specs of the link you posted:

Compatibility The HDMI standard sometimes includes copy protection encryption, such as commonly found on DVD players and some brands of set top boxes. When connected to these copy protected sources, the HDMI specification defines that Intensity cards cannot capture. Always confirm copyright ownership before capture or distribution of content. Intensity media file formats are fully compatible with DeckLink and Multibridge capture cards. Compatible with Microsoft Windows™ and Apple Intel based Mac Pro systems. Apple Power PC systems are not yet supported.

Doesn't sound like the card supports HDCP either...

underscore · 04-01-2010, 12:40 PM

there shouldn't be any HDCP over component though should there? I didn't think there was anything but the video signal sent over that. try it with your tv and make sure it's even set to component mode.

syee · 04-01-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

there shouldn't be any HDCP over component though should there? I didn't think there was anything but the video signal sent over that. try it with your tv and make sure it's even set to component mode.

There isn't - that's what I'm saying - if the video is HDCP protected, then it's not going to pass any video via component which means if he wants to display the content, he/she MUST use HDMI with a HDCP compliant device.

underscore · 04-01-2010, 01:13 PM

Well that's lame, our box (a few years old now) runs on component no problem. If you have an HDMI TV you might be able to trick it somehow.

Mr Colt · 04-01-2010, 04:39 PM

well the component works on the HT receiver-> projector no problem,
its a Shaw pace box

is there a bypass any one can think of for the component that would let me say plug the shaw box into a middle device to by pass this hpcd problem?(just to be clear, hpcd is on the component output as well as hdmi?)

there is no point to plunging in the shaw box directly to the projector or to the HT receiver->projector because i want a picture in picture effect on a pc.
(also up until now that's the method i have been using)

Is there a capture card that will work for this no problem?

syee · 04-01-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Colt

well the component works on the HT receiver-> projector no problem,
its a Shaw pace box

is there a bypass any one can think of for the component that would let me say plug the shaw box into a middle device to by pass this hpcd problem?(just to be clear, hpcd is on the component output as well as hdmi?)

there is no point to plunging in the shaw box directly to the projector or to the HT receiver->projector because i want a picture in picture effect on a pc.
(also up until now that's the method i have been using)

Is there a capture card that will work for this no problem?

hmm...then that means it's not an issue with HDCP/content protection since if it were content protection blocking it, you wouldn't get any video from component connected to any other device.

Maybe there's a problem with the breakout cable that is being used? Can you plug something else to the same component connections (like a DVD player?) to verify that the component input part is working properly?

underscore · 04-01-2010, 04:52 PM

^ try that and if a DVD player works but not the Shaw box, then maybe try running the HDMI to the projector and the component to your card (my theory being that the projector will tell the box everything is a-ok, allowing video to also go to the capture card).

Mr Colt · 04-02-2010, 05:08 AM

this is what i was able to try so far, i connected my wii using wii component cables, wii set to 480p, no picture if the blackmagic is set to component mode, but if set to composite (green shares same input jack) is black and white and double imaged on screen,
if the wii is set to 480i how ever, and the card is swiched back to component mode, you get a color image that looks normal...

so then i was able to remember how to accesses the shaw box resolution settings (power + settings button) and after testing each mode 480i 480p 720i 720p 1080i. the only mode that it will display useing component cables from the shaw box to the black magic, is 480i, all other modes will not display any picture. what i know from this is that atleast all the card's plugs cand cables are fine, what i dont understand is why it will not accept higher res modes... it was designed to do that right? i just wish i had a none hdcp hdmi output i could test... sigh.

any thoughts?

thanks for the help so far.

underscore · 04-02-2010, 10:02 AM

my thought is that either the card needs to be told to accept the other resolutions (check the manual?) or is defective.

syee · 04-02-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Colt

this is what i was able to try so far, i connected my wii using wii component cables, wii set to 480p, no picture if the blackmagic is set to component mode, but if set to composite (green shares same input jack) is black and white and double imaged on screen,
if the wii is set to 480i how ever, and the card is swiched back to component mode, you get a color image that looks normal...

so then i was able to remember how to accesses the shaw box resolution settings (power + settings button) and after testing each mode 480i 480p 720i 720p 1080i. the only mode that it will display useing component cables from the shaw box to the black magic, is 480i, all other modes will not display any picture. what i know from this is that atleast all the card's plugs cand cables are fine, what i dont understand is why it will not accept higher res modes... it was designed to do that right? i just wish i had a none hdcp hdmi output i could test... sigh.

any thoughts?

thanks for the help so far.

The double image sounds like (although can't really tell) a progressive signal being sent to something that only supports interlaced (as it you were sending a 480p signal to a device expecting 480i). It makes sense since you can't send a progressive signal through a composite jack. (which is normally the yellow jack but it seems in this case is one of the component jacks that serves double purpose)

Lets forget the input card on the PC for a second here and take a step back. If you take your Pace box, and connect it up to your projector or TV via component, can you get a good signal at all the resolutions you're testing at? Basically, I'm trying to rule out the Pace box as the source of the problem. If we can verify that component connection works at all the resolutions you want to use on something other than your BlackMagic card, then we can confidently say that it's not a problem with the Pace box and we can stop looking at the Pace box.

I know you said you had a receiver, but for the sake of testing, lets take that out of the equation as well, and we can always test with it in there later on.

If everything works at every resolution at the Pace box to the TV, then connect it back up to the Black Magic (without the receiver for now). See what modes you can play back. If any of the modes that worked on the TV don't play back on the Black Magic card, then it's either a configuration problem or a hardware/cable issue. It looks like there's 2 sets of component inputs so try them on each one.

BTW, does the Pace box have HDMI? Why not use a purely digital signal instead of the analog component?

underscore · 04-02-2010, 04:16 PM

^ his card doesn't have HDCP

syee · 04-02-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

^ his card doesn't have HDCP

I thought we ruled out the fact that the content being displayed wasn't HDCP protected. This means that we should be able to play back over HDMI to a non HDCP compliant device.

underscore · 04-02-2010, 04:27 PM

Ah right, my bad. So then it seems for whatever reason the card is not supporting the higher resolutions. Mr Colt have you tried connecting the Pace box via HDMI but on 480p?

Mr Colt · 04-02-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syee

1
Basically, I'm trying to rule out the Pace box as the source of the problem.
2
BTW, does the Pace box have HDMI? Why not use a purely digital signal instead of the analog component?

1
i have test the pace on other monitors both hdmi and component, its fine.
2
yes it has hdmi, and until i had this card that what i was using to my receiver, but as stated shaw probably use's HDCP and the card will not be able to decrypt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

my thought is that either the card needs to be told to accept the other resolutions (check the manual?) or is defective.

this is what i tried as suggested above, it dose have settings telling what type of signal to process, (which is lame) the problem is it cant seem to just pass through(even tho it has an proscess off mode which seems to relate to that)

select input processing:
Off(which dose not work)(and i am assuming is the pass-though mode)
Down conversion 1080i HD to SD Anamorphic 16:9 (works)
Down conversion 1080i HD to SD letterbox 16:9(works)
the up conversion options do not work.

I now have the Shaw box set to only send 1080i component to the card and it is showing picture, but as the setting i have to use to get it to work states, it is down converting it to SD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

Mr Colt have you tried connecting the Pace box via HDMI but on 480p?

yes but no picture, i still think that HDMI on the pace box is still HPCD, but the component dose not