If you don't like the HST, take action NOW

[Tim Budong]

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/New...medium=twitter

so here it is
the petition law/policy that would force a referendum on this

so show your support guys

[StylinRed]

there's going to be a ton of people canvasing bc to get signatures

[sunny_j]

[tool001]

so if they get enough votes, they will have to vote on it in the Legislature? however don't the liberals hold majority in the Legislature? this will only work if the some liberals vote against party line..

[MG1]

Originally Posted by tool001

so if they get enough votes, they will have to vote on it in the Legislature? however don't the liberals hold majority in the Legislature? this will only work if the some liberals vote against party line..

I think a referendum means we, the people, get to vote - not the asswipes in parliament.

According to the source, getting to the point they hold a referendum might seem easy, but 10% of voters in each riding? One thing the government is counting on, is people are pretty damn lazy.

Having said that, Vanderzalm is heading the campaign to stop the HST, so ya never know............

[tool001]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

I think a referendum means we, the people, get to vote - not the asswipes in parliament.

According to the source, getting to the point they hold a referendum might seem easy, but 10% of voters in each riding? One thing the government is counting on, is people are pretty damn lazy.

Having said that, Vanderzalm is heading the campaign to stop the HST, so ya never know............

if u read the article it says referendum or vote/repeal in the legislature.
either way , BC has gotten 1.x billion from federal govt. for this already...haven't they?

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Jordan Armstrong | Email news tips to jordan.armstrong@corusent.com
4/6/2010

If you don't like the HST, take the lid off your pen. The Citizen's Initiative Petition to kill the blended tax launches Tuesday.

It's a legally binding petition that, if successful, would require the BC Government to hold a referendum on the HST, or repeal it in the Legislature. But, just to get to that stage, ten per cent of registered voters in each Provincial riding have to sign it. And they have to do so within 90 days.

Former Premier Bill Vander Zalm is the leader of Fight HST", "No trouble getting support, but we do have to go out and collect the signatures. And that's a big job."

The petition campaign kicks-off at 7:30 p-m at Kitsilano Secondary School which happens to be located in Premier Gordon Campbell's riding.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by tool001

if u read the article it says referendum or vote/repeal in the legislature.
either way , BC has gotten 1.x billion from federal govt. for this already...haven't they?

So we're screwed either way. Thanks, Gordon "Drunken Bastard" Campbell.



As for the referendum, if it is in the legislature, it's basically futile. At least the petition, if it turns out to be massive, will send a clear message to the Liberals. Fuck, I hate them, but the NDP are worse.

[MG1]

Wait.........

BC Government to hold a referendum on the HST, or repeal it in the Legislature

or repeal it in the Legislature.

........hold a referendum suggests the public gets to vote.


the comma in there is key



EDIT: so who makes the choice between a referendum and a repeal? the speaker? This is provincial politics, so not hte same as federal? OK, who's into politics on RS?

[Tim Budong]

heres another take on all this
If infact that more ppl came out and voted at the last provincial election, we might not even be in this mess
dont care b4, look what happens

Its a good reason to come out and vote. I do understand that both parties thsi time around fought with no platform whatsoever, which made it confusing, but still. EVERY VOTE COUNTS in an election

[MG1]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

heres another take on all this
If infact that more ppl came out and voted at the last provincial election, we might not even be in this mess
dont care b4, look what happens

Its a good reason to come out and vote. I do understand that both parties thsi time around fought with no platform whatsoever, which made it confusing, but still. EVERY VOTE COUNTS in an election

Agree. Nobody should complain if they did not go to the polling stations to excercise thier franchise. However, what the liberals did was go through with this HST thing, which I think is pretty significant to average Joe, without much public input. Even though they have the mandate to do whatever they want (to an extent) they should have put it to a referendum. I guess the money from the federal government was a little too good to pass up.


Edit" In other words, nobody voted for the liberals because they wanted the HST.

[Hehe]

Can any business owner share some inputs on how exactly is HST beneficial to your industry?

My friend runs a lil Chinese restaurant in North Van and he's scared of it. He said, it's not exactly a good time to raise prices, and if he were to eat the extra 7%, he calculated he would effectively lose about 5% of income by factoring all possible savings from a simplified tax system currently foreseeable. And he finished his bachelor degree with accounting options, so I don't think he is exaggerating.

Consider that service and housing are among the biggest industries in BC with restaurant taking a big share out of service, they are perhaps the worst hit industries for HST. I really don't see much benefit from HST unless they introduce some exemptions.

[Ch28]

I did my part by sending out an email to people in the office this morning.

Do your part and make sure everybody knows about this!

Bill Tieleman wrote a nice little article about it today in 24 Hours

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Columnists.../13484991.html

[DuhDang]

so we have to go to kitsilano to sign the petition?

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by DuhDang

so we have to go to kitsilano to sign the petition?

You have to sign the petition in your local electoral area. I live in Burnaby, but I work Downtown. I have to sign the petition in Burnaby, I can't sign it downtown.

[Soundy]

If you were listening to Mike Smyth yesterday on NW, he explained what this means:

If Zalm gets his 10% in EVERY riding, it means a referendum must be held. That means the public votes on whether they want to see it repealed.

IF the referendum passes, they can introduce repeal legislation. However, the referendum itself is not binding. A call to repeal the bill is also not binding.

So in short, if the gov't wants this pushed through, nothing the Zalm does can stop it.

What this DOES do, if it gets enough opposition, is give the gov't a good indication of the level of support - or not - for the HST, and how dangerous it really is to them come the next election. If the opposition is strong enough, they MAY stop it to protect their own political asses... but none of this can force them to change anything.

All that said, most REPUTABLE economists state that the HST will be beneficial to the BC economy as a whole, and the other provinces that have implemented it bear this out, so... go ahead and sign the petition... be selfish and short-sighted and don't think about the future. Who needs a stable economy anyway?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by DuhDang

so we have to go to kitsilano to sign the petition?

It only started there because that Gordo's riding... it was done for the "big splash" factor.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Can any business owner share some inputs on how exactly is HST beneficial to your industry?

My friend runs a lil Chinese restaurant in North Van and he's scared of it. He said, it's not exactly a good time to raise prices, and if he were to eat the extra 7%, he calculated he would effectively lose about 5% of income by factoring all possible savings from a simplified tax system currently foreseeable. And he finished his bachelor degree with accounting options, so I don't think he is exaggerating.

Consider that service and housing are among the biggest industries in BC with restaurant taking a big share out of service, they are perhaps the worst hit industries for HST. I really don't see much benefit from HST unless they introduce some exemptions.

Has he really looked at how much he will be saving on his inputs? It seems to me that much of the concern from small businesses comes from the sales side. Well, let's say the average bill at a Chinese restaurant is $30 before taxes.

GST = $31.05
HST = $33.60

So, people are going to stop going out for lunch over less than $3?

If you introduce exemptions, this makes the tax less effective. We have the second lowest income taxes in the country. Consumption taxes have to make up the difference.

[misteranswer]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Can any business owner share some inputs on how exactly is HST beneficial to your industry?

My friend runs a lil Chinese restaurant in North Van and he's scared of it. He said, it's not exactly a good time to raise prices, and if he were to eat the extra 7%, he calculated he would effectively lose about 5% of income by factoring all possible savings from a simplified tax system currently foreseeable. And he finished his bachelor degree with accounting options, so I don't think he is exaggerating.

Consider that service and housing are among the biggest industries in BC with restaurant taking a big share out of service, they are perhaps the worst hit industries for HST. I really don't see much benefit from HST unless they introduce some exemptions.

Read up on what a Value Added Tax is and the comparisons to a Pure Sales Tax.

[misteranswer]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Has he really looked at how much he will be saving on his inputs? It seems to me that much of the concern from small businesses comes from the sales side. Well, let's say the average bill at a Chinese restaurant is $30 before taxes.

GST = $31.05
HST = $33.60

So, people are going to stop going out for lunch over less than $3?

If you introduce exemptions, this makes the tax less effective. We have the second lowest income taxes in the country. Consumption taxes have to make up the difference.

Not everyone, but some will. Perhaps instead of eating out 5 days a week you drop it to 4. Or perhaps instead of buying that 7 dollar meal you instead go for the 6 dollar meal. And then it might also only affect 10% of your customers.

[Hehe]

^

That's his main concern. He fears that by adding the price, his regulars will visit less often. He thought about promoting that they left the price at the same level pre/post hst will help (effectively reducing the price by same margin of the tax), but then he will be hit by the 5% reduction in revenue on average.

It's not about what kind of taxation this is. It's simply that given our current economy, raising price (not the price from sellers, but the absolute number consumer have to pay) only hurts the sales.

Some might argue that the percentage affected is small, but the chain effect of the whole thing is what's bad.

People spend less-->business spend less-->workers have less income-->spending even less...

[misteranswer]

Originally Posted by Hehe

It's not about what kind of taxation this is. It's simply that given our current economy, raising price (not the price from sellers, but the absolute number consumer have to pay) only hurts the sales.

Some might argue that the percentage affected is small, but the chain effect of the whole thing is what's bad.

People spend less-->business spend less-->workers have less income-->spending even less...

Actually it is all about what kind of tax this is.

You only see the tax at your end. What you don't see is the tax that is paid before the item reaches you.

[q0192837465]

Originally Posted by Hehe

^

That's his main concern. He fears that by adding the price, his regulars will visit less often. He thought about promoting that they left the price at the same level pre/post hst will help (effectively reducing the price by same margin of the tax), but then he will be hit by the 5% reduction in revenue on average.

It's not about what kind of taxation this is. It's simply that given our current economy, raising price (not the price from sellers, but the absolute number consumer have to pay) only hurts the sales.

Some might argue that the percentage affected is small, but the chain effect of the whole thing is what's bad.

People spend less-->business spend less-->workers have less income-->spending even less...

Taxes has a tendancy to reallocate wealth. Money just doesnt disappear, as shown in your example.

[Roach]

For the record, I support HST. I believe the this will make our province more lucrative to invest in and decrease a lot of complication that the PST structure provided.

That being said, I totally understand the consumer's frustration with the implemented changes. Having to pay more at a restaurant or barbershop is not the greatest feeling. That being said, I did read a study recently by a University of Toronto professor analyzing the effect of HST implementation on maritime provinces which indicated that average prices did in fact decrease in subsequent years. Therefore, I'm not sure the impact of HST implementation warrants such a severe backlash.

In all honesty, I think people protesting the HST are missing the forest for the trees. So yeah, you will have to pay 7% more at a restaurant or for a haircut. Yet, when we shop at local retailers, or buy a new car, no one questions the fact we are paying at least 30% more for a product available 100km south of us? Why does a Mazdaspeed 3 cost $34k here, but only $23k in the US? Why do your shoes cost over $100 here, yet they are only $50 in the US? Motor oil, cheese, gasoline... you name it. For a long time our dollar has been within earshot of the US dollar, and now, we are at parity. Yet, I don't see the outcry of injustice when consumers are being obviously gouged by Canadian retailers. Yet, a 7% increase in tax on some items is motivation for a petition & referendum?

And even if that 7% increase in tax occurred, where is it going? To pay for our province's needs. The Olympics, that giant party that most everyone enjoyed, doesn't come free. Neither does any of the infrastructure that we have available here. Yet, the extra 30% you are paying for your new car? That's going straight into the pocket of a Japanese/German/American company that will do little to contribute to the way of life we enjoy here. The groceries used to make your dinner at your favourite restaurant cost the restaurant more than a similar restaurant in the US. Why?

I'm sure to get flamed for this post, but I can't help but feel people are being mobilized by politicians with an agenda rather than focusing on a much bigger issue that offers the potential for a lot more saving for the average consumer.

Kev

[q0192837465]

^but u gotta understand that humans are programmed to kick into self perserverence mode whenever there is a threat.

Yes, HST will create a better future. But the questions most people ask is, what do I get out of it? The middle class is taking the biggest hit because it lowers their purchasing power. No one is willing to sacrifice themselves willingly for the sake of others because we do not live in an ideal world.

[tool001]

well, u talk about long run and how prices are suppose to decrease, hows this for example

2 years ago, when gas was at $1.40-1.50 , prices for pretty much everything went up.
when price for gas went down to $.70 and now $1, did prices at retail level or wholesale level fall back down? no

i do see that argument that savings from HST will be passed on eventually to consumers. but by that time, inflation and other factors would have smash down the saving into nothing, and pretty much nothing will be passed on...