REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

routinestains · 04-11-2010, 04:26 PM

I am finally getting a chance to upgrade my tube TV now that I'll be moving in less a month.

I did a bit of research online, and it comes down to plasma vs lcd. Since I rarely watch TV (probably less than 500 hours per year), I figure I don't really want to a huge amount of money on it, hence 3dtv is out of the picture.

For me, the only disadvantage of plasma is the burn-in. Since I don't watch TV that often, power consumption isn't really that big of a concern.

My question is, isn't plasma's burn-in more of a user's ignorance or something that can be easily avoided than say, a real technical problem? From online research, burn-in only occurs if one leaves the TV with a static image on for a long period of time, ranging from a day to weeks. I mean, if you're not done the movie, and you paused it, how much more work would it be to press an additional button to turn off the TV? Even with video games with static images like status bar, I highly doubt anyone will play 8 hours straight.

That's the only disadvantage I can see with plasma, which I don't even really consider a disadvantage. However, I could be wrong though. So I was wondering if there's anyone that can shed some light on this matter, before I jump in make my purchase.

Thanks!

skyxx · 04-11-2010, 04:40 PM

For plasmas, there's a difference between "Image Retention and Burn in". Most of the time, people who see a "static" image on their screen are usually a form of Image retention and are not permanent. It's usually "Pretty hard" to get burn-in now. Most sets come Pre-broken in at the factory. Yes there's a "break-in" period for Plasmas. When you get a New Plasma set, regardless if it was broken in or not, always perform that procedure.

You can go buy a "Break-In" DVD and let it run for about 250 hours or running non-news broadcast stuff. You can always run shows/movies at full screen for the same amount of time too. By letting your TV run during the break-in period allows the phosphors to "age/Mature" so they don't get as excited.

PM me for more info or ask here.

trd2343 · 04-11-2010, 05:11 PM

Thanks.

I read that generally, plasma display a higher quality picture, but of course, I have to see for myself to decide that. That's why I want to make sure that the burn-in for plasma isn't a serious and nonavoidable problem, so I don't have to worry about that as a deciding factor between lcd and plasma in the case I do really like the plasma.

I know that I don't watch TV that often, but I'm planning to keep this set for around 10 years, so I would want something I would like watching.

Generally speaking, go for Panasonic if I'm getting a plasma right?

skyxx · 04-11-2010, 05:25 PM

I wouldn't say Higher quality picture but for sure they rule in the Better blacks department. LCD technology have come a long way and the PQ on both technologies are pretty much similar except the blacks. Plasmas still hold Superior depth in the blacks but LCD is quickly catching up.

As for Brands of Plasmas, if Pioneer was still in the game I'd recommend their Kuro line but since then it's long gone and they sold their stuff to Panasonic. Although you can still get a 60inch Kuro set at some stores like Futureshop. Panasonic has great PQ for Plasmas at the moment and I'm just waiting for them to release their super black plasmas. Samsungs aren't bad either, you can check them out too!

One thing I really recommend you doing after you get a TV is that you get it Calibrated! Trust me, the picture quality is noticeable. Since you said you'll have it for 10 years you might as well get the best picture possible.

For more information on Plasmas you can actually visit www.avsforum.com They have awesome info their and you can read on what people have to say about each particular model and what settings they set their TV to. Don't get too carried away though

EDIT: Okay, one more thing. If you do get a TV at Futureshop, don't get their Calibration services. I'm not sure how good they are.

twitchyzero · 04-11-2010, 07:46 PM

geesus...you use your tv one hour a week?
props

if you use it that less i don't see why you would be afraid of burn-in's..and just remember many of the points used in lcd vs plasma argument are from few years back...the gaps between the technology is slowly converging

and breaking in the tv i thought just running it on lower settings is fine

misteranswer · 04-11-2010, 07:51 PM

Plasma's run hot, so if you're in an enclosed room get ready to cook.

Soundy · 04-11-2010, 07:52 PM

Burn-in on plasmas is the same effect you see on old CRTs, except not generally as bad. If you never got burn-in on your CRT with your watching habits, it should never be a concern on a plasma.

If you want a good example of burn-in, go to a retail shop, gas station C-store, etc. that has CRT surveillance monitors - most of them you find will be badly burned in.

unit · 04-11-2010, 08:05 PM

sometimes i get burn in on my work lcd monitor. lol

UnDeadMage · 04-11-2010, 08:08 PM

lol places that sell lottery for bclc are pretty bad too. if they have a crt keno display it is pretty bad too.

tacobell · 04-11-2010, 09:19 PM

With the amount of hours you log on the tv, you shouldn't blink twice over the concern of burn in, it won't be an issue unless you are using it as a static monitor. Burn in is such a non issue with today's units.

The important questions you should really be asking yourself is what's your budget? what's the primary use of the tv? - video games, sports, movies, regular programming.

How many inputs do you need? How many HDMI inputs?
How far away are you sitting from the tv?
how much light is reflected into your room?

routinestains · 04-11-2010, 09:49 PM

Sorry, actually there was a typo. I meant 500, not 50, but I think that's still below average number of hours.

The primary use for the TV would be a mix of movies and TV. I say I use roughly 1/4 - 1/5 for video games.

I'm hoping to get a 50", and probably a budget for a 50" between average and best for quality.

The red line is possible position of the TV and the boxes are windows. I know plasma have a problem for being reflective, and if I really see one that I like, worst case scenario is I find a huge blanket to cover the windows. Then again, I only watch TV 1/4 of the time during day time.

Few more questions:
What do I do/look for when I'm on the floor with the TV? I've read that most TVs displayed on the floor are set to "torch"? mode, so it's not a really good representation of what I see at home. Do I ask the salesperson to set it back to normal?

Lastly, where else can I get a ok-decent quality TV stand that's not overpriced? I'm somewhat skeptical when it comes to buying furniture stuff from electronic stores.

XtC-604 · 04-11-2010, 10:20 PM

Plasmas IMHO still exhibit the best color and image quality. And yes Pioneer sold all their technologies to Panasonic. In my household we have a Pioneer Plasma and my god it beats the shit out of 99.9% of all the TVs i see at work.

skyxx · 04-12-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by routinestains

The red line is possible position of the TV and the boxes are windows. I know plasma have a problem for being reflective, and if I really see one that I like, worst case scenario is I find a huge blanket to cover the windows. Then again, I only watch TV 1/4 of the time during day time.

Most plasmas do come with an "Anti Reflective/Glare coating". It doesn't completely eliminate glare but it does help out quite a bit. I"m assuming you're gonna use the TV strictly for Movies and minimal gaming, so glare shouldn't be that much of an issue and I believe you'll use it at night too. I think you should invest in some curtains/blinds for all the windows. It's pretty easy to install.

Quote:

Few more questions:
What do I do/look for when I'm on the floor with the TV? I've read that most TVs displayed on the floor are set to "torch"? mode, so it's not a really good representation of what I see at home. Do I ask the salesperson to set it back to normal?

Haha, "Torch" mode. Basically "Demo" mode that shows Bleeding colours. When you get the TV, you could change the settings easily to "Normal". Then turn off all the aids/picture processing crap that it comes with. As for viewing it at the store, yes you should tell the Sales associate to change it back to normal settings and you can ask them to play all sorts of media (Blu-ray, News broadcast etc etc etc). If they don't feel like doing that crap, either ask for another sales associate or bring your money elsewhere. [/quote]

Quote:

Lastly, where else can I get a ok-decent quality TV stand that's not overpriced? I'm somewhat skeptical when it comes to buying furniture stuff from electronic stores.

There's nothing wrong with buying TV stands at Electronic stores. Well, the only wrong thing is the price unless they're throwing in the TV stand for free as a package. (Or a friend works at those stores and can get it for you for a better price). You can go to Ikea and buy one. I'd check out the "As-Is" section first. Coquitlam Ikea has the best selections in terms of As-Is stuff. Or you can head to the Brick and bargain. The options are limitless. If you're feeling really cheap, you can go on Craigslist and see what people are giving away for free.

As for me, I'm a sucker for matching TV and stands so I buy a stand that Sony sells for their corresponding TV.

I'm bad like that.

Cman333 · 04-12-2010, 04:10 PM

If you don't watch much TV I would go with LCD. Less hassle with LCD than plasma.

Although new plasmas have anti burn in technology....they'll still burn in if stuck on a static image too long. One of my old work places had a Panasonic that had MAJOR burn in (2009 model) and couldn't get rid of it. Mind you alot of the times the demo dvd wouldn't be on repeat so the dvd was stuck in the menu for 2-5 hours daily. Basically you have to be more responsible with Plasma. Also, don't buy demo models unless it's stinking cheap.

Cman333 · 04-12-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyxx

EDIT: Okay, one more thing. If you do get a TV at Futureshop, don't get their Calibration services. I'm not sure how good they are.

They're not bad at all. You can't really fuck up.

They use a colorimeter that measures the colour from the tv which inputs to a computer. Then the tech adjusts the settings accordlingly.

The reason calibration costs so much is the time + the machine involved. A professional colorimeter costs from $5000-15000.

I've seen some super basic one's on amazon before for $200. But again you pay for what you get obviously.

routinestains · 04-12-2010, 09:36 PM

^ Thanks for all the helpful replies. I know that AVSforum is much more dedicated, but I find I can get a more wider ranger of opinion and help here.

skyxx: I'm actually pretty cheap when it comes to functional stuff. But I figure it would look nicer to buy a bit more decent looking stand to match to my new place. It seems like Dark Knight or Harry Potter is a popular choice for test media.

cman333: I'll definitely keep that in mind. But if I'm down to a plasma and the lcd, and the plasma beats the lcd in terms of quality by a lot, I'll definitely get the plasma and just be more careful with it.

I know that plasma/lcd tv has to be calibrated. I think I remember seeing asian_xL or someone else from this forum using a simple DVD to calibrate the TV. So do I actually get the guys from futureshop to do the calibration or can I do it myself?

Lastly, why do futureshop etc. set the TV to demo mode? Or what exactly am I looking for when I ask them to set it back to normal?

skyxx · 04-13-2010, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by routinestains

I know that plasma/lcd tv has to be calibrated. I think I remember seeing asian_xL or someone else from this forum using a simple DVD to calibrate the TV. So do I actually get the guys from futureshop to do the calibration or can I do it myself?

For calibrating televisions, you can use the dvd if you want but then that's somewhat limited in terms of adjusting gamma, R/G/B, and brightness etc etc. A calibration DVD basically just uses the fixed options menu that is shipped with the TV and not the Hidden menu screens that are optimized for a technician/calibrator. It works to an extended point and that's not a bad route. For certified ISF guys like the futureshop people, they use thousand dollar machines to acurately measure the colour, brightness etc etc according to each "setup". By setup I mean how your TV is position relative to the light that is around the tv and they optimize calibration for all Outputs. So lets say you're watching satellite/cable, they would calibrate that output and if you're watching Blu-ray/DVDs, they would calibrate at that setting as well.

Quote:

Lastly, why do futureshop etc. set the TV to demo mode? Or what exactly am I looking for when I ask them to set it back to normal?

They set it to Demo mode because the vendors told them to do it. It's sort of a "rigged" setup to make it appeal to consumer's eyes. Making the images POP/stand out. Of course, that mode is super intensive and bright/crazy when you watch it at home.

Keep asking more questions.

illicitstylz · 04-13-2010, 08:04 AM

I have a set up like that room diagram that you drew OP.

Currently with a 42" Toshiba Plasma.

Used it for 2 years no problems, I do notice the image retention but doesn't last more than a day (mostly cause i watch it for an hour or two then don't watch it again until the next day so it could be less than a day of image retention).

However, I have noticed solarization and I have sent it into warranty, don't know if they'll accept it yet since they're evaluating it now.

Solarization (from the sun through the window obviously) makes these yellow and brown patches on peoples faces at times, gets real annoying and is quite obvious.

routinestains · 04-13-2010, 07:47 PM

So it seems like there's lots more to hdtv than just contrast ratio. I came across terms like deinterlacer, etc. etc. that I don't even know what they're talking about.

I'm not the type of person who can actually pick out all the fine details. I think in the end I'm just end up getting which ever one looks best to me on the floor haha.

However, besides Futureshop, Bestbuy, and maybe Broadway Camera in aberdeen, what other places have TVs out on displays? I know theSource does, but the selection is narrow I think.

While I'm at it, I'm probably going to get a sound system with the TV as well? But I'm not really into audio stuff, so I'm probably looking for a easy 5.1 setup. I've noticed now a lot of stores carry "Home-theatre in a box". Anyone has any experience on these?

Thanks

trd2343 · 06-06-2010, 10:12 PM

Any good places to get good deals on TVs right now?

Also, should I avoid purchasing from online retailer where the TV needs to shipped over a long distance?

Cman333 · 06-08-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by routinestains

So it seems like there's lots more to hdtv than just contrast ratio. I came across terms like deinterlacer, etc. etc. that I don't even know what they're talking about.

I'm not the type of person who can actually pick out all the fine details. I think in the end I'm just end up getting which ever one looks best to me on the floor haha.

However, besides Futureshop, Bestbuy, and maybe Broadway Camera in aberdeen, what other places have TVs out on displays? I know theSource does, but the selection is narrow I think.

While I'm at it, I'm probably going to get a sound system with the TV as well? But I'm not really into audio stuff, so I'm probably looking for a easy 5.1 setup. I've noticed now a lot of stores carry "Home-theatre in a box". Anyone has any experience on these?

Thanks

Any major retailer will have lots of TV's on display. Best Buy, Futureshop, London Drugs, Visions, Sunny Electronics, Costco, Etc.

HTIB (home theatre in the box) generally are more suited for small rooms. You tend to get small satellite speakers with a basic reciever. If you're looking for video switching or upscaling you will need to look into something better. Most people start with HTIB, but gradually end up upgrading to something nicer. Satellite speakers generally will do the job, but if you want more "umph" out of you system you need bigger speakers/subwoofer. I started with a Sony HTIB for my bedroom, but I tend to listen to music and watch action movies and tiny little speakers really didn't cut it for me.