If you could not afford a house in Vancouver, would you still live here.....??

[JesseBlue]

guys remember when they said that the housing prices should go down after the olympics? hasn't happened yet...i live in surrey close to the skytrain...i know surrey is 'bad' in eyes of some/many but i do love living here...only thing is you really should have a car as everything is so spread out

[acurael]

Surrey is the place to be. I never understand why someone would live in Vancouver (excluding downtown) - (unless you are living in a mansion etc). The houses are small, cramped, no parking. For the same price you can get a nice crazy nice house in South Surrey.

Surrey is close to every major city (half hour drive) - van, langley, burnaby, coquitlam. People that talk shit about Surrey have never lived here. Yah there is some crime but most areas have crime. Look at downtown eastside.

Its not like Surrey is cheap either....lowermainland is ridiculous right now. I just dont get why people would spend so much money for Vancouver....get a car and commute if you work downtown etc.? Well thats my opinion

[Mananetwork]

Originally Posted by woob

I'd move to Portland. Portland.

assuming I could find some Geotech work there.

I heart Oregon, Cannon beach here I COME!

[TheKingdom2000]

Originally Posted by acurael

Surrey is the place to be. I never understand why someone would live in Vancouver (excluding downtown) - (unless you are living in a mansion etc). The houses are small, cramped, no parking. For the same price you can get a nice crazy nice house in South Surrey.

Surrey is close to every major city (half hour drive) - van, langley, burnaby, coquitlam. People that talk shit about Surrey have never lived here. Yah there is some crime but most areas have crime. Look at downtown eastside.

Its not like Surrey is cheap either....lowermainland is ridiculous right now. I just dont get why people would spend so much money for Vancouver....get a car and commute if you work downtown etc.? Well thats my opinion

I think you're confused friend. In BC, Vancouver is the place to be.
It hurts every time a friend has to cab home from DT after a party/club when they live in surrey or langley or poco...

Compared to everywhere else, Surrey is as cheap as it gets... relatively of course.

Have you ever lived in Vancouver? If you have, will you honestly say you prefer living in Surrey Vs. Vancouver? If so, why?

[cowcowcafe]

Originally Posted by dachinesedude

cant afford a house but really want one? move to Detroit

i was in detroit last week, and saw an ad for a house in a ghetto for 7k

[goo3]

Originally Posted by mx703

Have you ever lived in Vancouver? If you have, will you honestly say you prefer living in Surrey Vs. Vancouver? If so, why?

He said he likes crazy nice houses and thinks half hour drives to nowhere are short. It's what he's used to.. that's why he likes it.

[raygunpk]

lol slurrey

[Hondaracer]

Hmm live in a 1800sq foot 1.2 mill shit box on the north shore with no view or live in a 4500+ sq foot newer home in a neighborhood like Fraser heights, Morgan creek etc

not a hard choice for me, I think the majority of the ppl who live on the north shore in these shit boxes just got in early and couldn't imagine telling someone they live anywhere but Vancouver
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[7seven]

You could not pay me enough to live in Surrey. Vancouver or Burnaby only for me, my office and all the spots I hang out at are in downtown Vancouver and the majority of all the film studios are in Burnaby, not a fan of long commute times and traffic, so for me, I'm ok paying more living in Vancouver/Burnaby area.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by acurael

Surrey is the place to be. I never understand why someone would live in Vancouver (excluding downtown) - (unless you are living in a mansion etc). The houses are small, cramped, no parking. For the same price you can get a nice crazy nice house in South Surrey.

Not everyone prides themselves on material possessions. Yes you have have a bigger nicer house in Surrey, yet it is just more room to fill with over-priced wasteful junk.

I prefer living blocks from the beach, parks, and trails that the city takes care of. I used to have a house and backyard, it sucks to take care of it yourself, and it wasn't even big enough to throw a football.

Originally Posted by acurael

Surrey is close to every major city (half hour drive) - van

It is not 30 mins to downtown from Surrey unless you're breaking every traffic law and there's no traffic. 45 mins easy, 60+ in traffic.

Originally Posted by acurael

get a car and commute if you work downtown etc.? Well thats my opinion

A couple years of losing 2 hrs a day in traffic will change your mind.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Hmm live in a 1800sq foot 1.2 mill shit box on the north shore with no view or live in a 4500+ sq foot newer home in a neighborhood like Fraser heights, Morgan creek etc

Living on the north shore only mins from the mountains, or live in a huge house in the middle of nowhere.

If you like staying home, sure take the big house. Yet I moved to Vancouver for the outdoor lifestyle, not to be a couch potato.

Plus what the hell are you going to do with 4500 sqft? 2000 sqft is more than enough for a family of 4, the rest would be seldomly used rooms filled with expensive toys rarely used.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

No, it is not. I'll correct the rest of your inaccuracies now.


Unemployment in Ontario is 9.2% compared to 7.9% in BC. Not a huge difference, and Ontario has the benefit of several company headquarters. Vancouver has only one major company headquartered here.

So, you tell me that offshore money isn't fueling (partially, at least) the real estate market here, then you point out that we have a small industrial base here (which is true). So, what's exactly fueling the market here? Home equity leading to trading up? The wealth management business is pretty healthy here, but I would imagine that most people didn't earn their money here in Vancouver.

Real estate still has not recovered to peak values in Calgary and Edmonton, despite equities recovering and new investment in the oil sands.

You missed what I was trying to say; I wasn't commenting on the real estate market in Alberta. It's a broad statement, but many people have said that Alberta is the Texas of Canada. That's what I meant by "outlook."

No it is not. Ottawa property values dipped 12% during the 2008 downturn.

Ottawa just got a hiring and salary free at all 3 levels of government. That affects 1 of 3 people who work in Ottawa.

Yeah, so that means real estate is even cheaper now.

A hiring freeze doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things as it's very hard to fire and layoff people in the public service. Money will always be flowing to the city because it's the capital - that's what I meant by saying "recession-proof." Unless there's a massive downsizing of government operations in the near future, the economy will remain relatively stable there.

I lived in Ottawa for a while and the amount of "poverty" there is small potatoes compared to the inequality you see out here.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Originally Posted by 7seven

You could not pay me enough to live in Surrey. Vancouver or Burnaby only for me, my office and all the spots I hang out at are in downtown Vancouver and the majority of all the film studios are in Burnaby, not a fan of long commute times and traffic, so for me, I'm ok paying more living in Vancouver/Burnaby area.

werd

the traffic along will drive me nuts trying to come to work everyday

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

So, you tell me that offshore money isn't fueling (partially, at least) the real estate market here, then you point out that we have a small industrial base here (which is true).

Thank you for correcting yourself. Fueling implying it is the primary driving factor. Yes offshore money is a factor, as well as immigration, yet not a very large factor.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

So, what's exactly fueling the market here? Home equity leading to trading up? The wealth management business is pretty healthy here, but I would imagine that most people didn't earn their money here in Vancouver.

More inaccurate assumptions. Stop grandstanding.

Maybe among the $M+ homes, yet the majority of condos and lower prices homes in the burbs are bought by average working people.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

You missed what I was trying to say; I wasn't commenting on the real estate market in Alberta.

This is a thread about real estate, please stay on topic or yes we will miss your point.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Yeah, so that means real estate is even cheaper now.

Except that it has risen 16% since the downturn, and is up more than most cities. Please do your research before making comments.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

A hiring freeze doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things as it's very hard to fire and layoff people in the public service. Money will always be flowing to the city because it's the capital - that's what I meant by saying "recession-proof." Unless there's a massive downsizing of government operations in the near future, the economy will remain relatively stable there.

These statements contradict each other. I understand what you mean, yet your over-the-top language doesn't help make your point.

All 3 levels of government have enacted a budget and hiring freeze. This means just to pay the 1.5% increase of salaries in the union contracts there has to be attrition, as there is no 1.5% budget increase in a budget freeze.

Unless the economy picks up expect this to get even worse. The public sector has been a target for the provincial Conservatives before (Mike Harris) and it looks like Dalton McGuinty is on his way out.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I lived in Ottawa for a while and the amount of "poverty" there is small potatoes compared to the inequality you see out here.

I lived in Ottawa 13 years and grew up outside Ottawa the 14 years prior. Please don't act like an expert, especially if you don't do your homework.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

a skytrain along HWY 1 from chilliwack? lol.. and you thought the Canada Line to richmond brought in crime?

Crime or not, there IS a need for it. Like the RER trains in Paris that connect the suburbs to the city.

Either way it doesn't matter much to me, since moving across the straight I don't think I ever want to move back to the mainland.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

Thank you for correcting yourself. Fueling implying it is the primary driving factor. Yes offshore money is a factor, as well as immigration, yet not a very large factor.


More inaccurate assumptions. Stop grandstanding.

Maybe among the $M+ homes, yet the majority of condos and lower prices homes in the burbs are bought by average working people.

I would argue that people are buying because of all of the activity at the higher end of the market which has a trickle-effect to lower-priced condos, homes in the Burbs, etc. The market had to have been fueled by something. Maybe it was Bob Rennie? Record low interest rates? You have, rightly or wrongly, debunked my opinions, but you haven't answered what you think is driving the market.

Except that it has risen 16% since the downturn, and is up more than most cities. Please do your research before making comments.

Okay. But, real estate is a heck of a lot more affordable than it is here.

All 3 levels of government have enacted a budget and hiring freeze. This means just to pay the 1.5% increase of salaries in the union contracts there has to be attrition, as there is no 1.5% budget increase in a budget freeze.

Unless the economy picks up expect this to get even worse. The public sector has been a target for the provincial Conservatives before (Mike Harris) and it looks like Dalton McGuinty is on his way out.

The public sector will obviously become victim to cuts, but I can bet that the job losses will be less than what occured in the private sector. What will happen will be nowhere near what happened in the 90s.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I would argue that people are buying because of all of the activity at the higher end of the market which has a trickle-effect to lower-priced condos, homes in the Burbs, etc. The market had to have been fueled by something. Maybe it was Bob Rennie? Record low interest rates? You have, rightly or wrongly, debunked my opinions, but you haven't answered what you think is driving the market.

Stupidity.

Prices will always be higher here than the rest of the country as living here is desirable for both Canadians seeking a better lifestyle/weather, and immigrants choosing Vancouver as the nearest point of entry.

The rest is stupidity.

Lack of education/experience: Most young first time buyers (FTB) I meet in Vancouver have a "get rich quick" opinion of buying real estate. In their adult lives all they've known is the massive run-up from 2002 till now. They've never seen a downturn, or were too young to appreciate it. The downturn in 1994 where prices didn't recover till 2002 (or 2005 if indexed to inflation).

Credit lifestyle:The same FTBs are the first generation of credit, willing to accept paying future debt to acquire possessions now. My parents bought furniture with savings, using a CC or LOC was not the norm as it is now.

Credit has allowed people to buy more and more. Lower rates and longer amortizations means people can afford more, so they'll pay more. Real estate has increased accordingly.

For example:
My $67K salary with few debts in 2003 only allowed me to finance a $220K mortgage over 25 years at 4.3% qualifying with a 40% TDC and 32% GDC and 5% down. So that is the house price I went shopping for.
That same salary would allow me to finance a $350K mortgage over 35 yrs at 3.8% qualifying with a 46% TDC (credit score > 720) and unlimited GDC (credit score > 700) and 5% down.

Effectively the new government rules and rates allowed me to buy > 50% more house. If I was stupid, I would go out and do that without worry that I'll now take 10 more years to pay it off, I'm paying more per month (46% vs 40%) and that my payment will go up significantly in 5 years.

I'll repeat: Stupidity is driving the market.

[Ikkaku]

Honestly, how many young first time buyers are actually people that are making money locally? Over half of the newer Richmond areas are bought out by people who have businesses in China.

Hell, a good portion of my old neighbourhood (Oak and 46ish) was bought out by mainlanders. Directly across the street, they were buying 3-5 houses at a time for townhouse development. In fact, my house was eventually bought out for the same reason.

Most Vancouver specials are heading close to 1mil. That alone would deter FTB, credit increase or not.

[Leopold Stotch]

Originally Posted by dachinesedude

cant afford a house but really want one? move to Detroit

i'd move to detroit.

but the commute to school would take too long.

[Marioo1991]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

Stupidity.

Prices will always be higher here than the rest of the country as living here is desirable for both Canadians seeking a better lifestyle/weather, and immigrants choosing Vancouver as the nearest point of entry.

The rest is stupidity.

Lack of education/experience: Most young first time buyers (FTB) I meet in Vancouver have a "get rich quick" opinion of buying real estate. In their adult lives all they've known is the massive run-up from 2002 till now. They've never seen a downturn, or were too young to appreciate it. The downturn in 1994 where prices didn't recover till 2002 (or 2005 if indexed to inflation).

Credit lifestyle:The same FTBs are the first generation of credit, willing to accept paying future debt to acquire possessions now. My parents bought furniture with savings, using a CC or LOC was not the norm as it is now.

Credit has allowed people to buy more and more. Lower rates and longer amortizations means people can afford more, so they'll pay more. Real estate has increased accordingly.

For example:
My $67K salary with few debts in 2003 only allowed me to finance a $220K mortgage over 25 years at 4.3% qualifying with a 40% TDC and 32% GDC and 5% down. So that is the house price I went shopping for.
That same salary would allow me to finance a $350K mortgage over 35 yrs at 3.8% qualifying with a 46% TDC (credit score > 720) and unlimited GDC (credit score > 700) and 5% down.

Effectively the new government rules and rates allowed me to buy > 50% more house. If I was stupid, I would go out and do that without worry that I'll now take 10 more years to pay it off, I'm paying more per month (46% vs 40%) and that my payment will go up significantly in 5 years.

I'll repeat: Stupidity is driving the market.

I agree. People dont really understand the difference between what they can afford vs. what they can get credit to buy.

I know someone who bought a place, and put 0 down, and used the HBP to purchase a car, now that's stupidity.

[Ducdesmo]

I am personally waiting to cash in on other people's mistakes.

[Marioo1991]

Originally Posted by itsallaboutgz

I am personally waiting to cash in on other people's mistakes.

Some of the ppl that i know who have dug themselves deep are being rescued by their parents, so they dont really learn.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by mx703

Have you ever lived in Vancouver? If you have, will you honestly say you prefer living in Surrey Vs. Vancouver? If so, why?

I lived in Yaletown for a short period of time with a friend of mine and to be perfectly honest, I hated it. I hated looking out the windows and seeing concrete-glass-concrete-concrete-steel-a bit of sky-and more concrete. I grew up in a well-established neighbourhood in South Langley, where I was surrounded by 100+ foot trees, giant lawns, fresh air, and most importantly, privacy even in your own front/backyard. I enjoy being able to go into my backyard, turn on the BBQ and fire up the firepit. I like going into my driveway and working on one of my three cars without having to worry about a Strata Council berating me for doing a simple oil change (much less an entire engine overhaul). Yes, not everything is within walking distance and, yes, it's such an established neighbourhood that the house prices here are starting to rival the more lavish homes in Vancouver, but given the choice between the two locations, I'd choose Langley each and every time.

Living in a shoebox would be okay if you're on your own or living with a girlfriend, but raising a family in one is just far too much. Trust me, I helped my ex through it in a place that's maaaaaybe 700 square feet. Luckily she also has 22 acres to let her kids roam if they get to be too much. And I'll guarantee that anyone who says raising two kids in a typical Vancouver shoebox is absolutely doable has either 1) Never raised a child of their own, or, 2) has the patience of a rock and a will of steel. For 99.9% of the general population, it just wont work.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by mikeivb

The problem with Langley is if you work in vancouver/dt the commute would be horrible. Surrey isnt bad since theres the skytrain, but i know people who spend 3-4 hours/day commuting from Langley to downtown.

I commuted from South Langley to Commercial and Venables for a year. To be honest, it wasn't a bad drive. On average, it was a 45-55 minute commute. The only times it took longer was when there was an accident on a bridge or tunnel.

However, when I took transit for that commute after writing off one of my cars, the amount of time it took jumped to 2.5 hours each way.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by mikeivb

used the HBP to purchase a car, now that's stupidity.

To me, anyone using the HBP for more than just a temporary loan is in trouble.

For example: I get back ~35-40% of what I contribute into my RRSPs. If I took a $25K loan (and had $25K contribution room) I could put $25K into my RRSP and get back a $10K tax return. I could then withdraw the $25K HBP from my RRSP and pay back the loan. Now I have $10K for a few $100 of interest on the loan.

Do this x2 as a couple, and you've got $20K for a downpayment, and you haven't touched your retirement savings. Even at a 30% tax bracket, that's still 2x$7.5K = $15K

There is no reason to delete your retirement for a house.