HST... whos for it?

[Nightwalker]

I'm down with the HST

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo

SOOOO TRUE

amen

[terkan]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Are nurses an important part of healthcare? Yes. Did they fuck over BC by going on strike and use their important status to get themselves a ridiculous amount of pay, especially when it comes to "overtime"? Yes. You can't argue that, so don't bother.

how many fucking nurses do you see make that much. Look at the big picture, not the exception and apply it to the general population. Also
if nurses were properly staffed then you would not be seeing this "overtime". Try doing 7 people's work with 4 people on a daily basis. If you don't
work as a nurse or know their work setting then again stfu. You're making yourself sound like an idiot.
Posted via RS Mobile

[terkan]

Originally Posted by IMASA

Check your math. Any RN that works 12hr shifts, 6 days a week like you say will easily break $100k. If they do 12hr shifts and work more than 4 days in a row, that's considered OT for day 5 and day 6 @ 2x pay.

Are you retarded or what? Do you take everything literally? No person works 6 days a week for the whole year, and just so you know, nurses start at around 24ish. 33ish is the top rate if you have worked for 10+ years. Also the only way you will pass this is if you take up managerial positions or are a specialist. No regular RN makes in the ballpark skinnypupp suggests.
Posted via RS Mobile

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by terkan

Also
if nurses were properly staffed then you would not be seeing this "overtime". Try doing 7 people's work with 4 people on a daily basis]

+1

[1exotic]

had to get new regrestration for my car today, because of the HST I had to pay $600 stacks...

so awesome.

[IMASA]

Originally Posted by terkan

Are you retarded or what? Do you take everything literally? No person works 6 days a week for the whole year, and just so you know, nurses start at around 24ish. 33ish is the top rate if you have worked for 10+ years. Also the only way you will pass this is if you take up managerial positions or are a specialist. No regular RN makes in the ballpark skinnypupp suggests.
Posted via RS Mobile

Calm down son before you have a heart attack and require the services of a RN.
I think you better check your numbers again rather than pull them out of your ass.
http://www.bcnu.org/contracts_servic.../wage_grid.pdf
Let's not forget their $5/hr shift differential.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by terkan

Are you retarded or what? Do you take everything literally? No person works 6 days a week for the whole year, and just so you know, nurses start at around 24ish. 33ish is the top rate if you have worked for 10+ years. Also the only way you will pass this is if you take up managerial positions or are a specialist. No regular RN makes in the ballpark skinnypupp suggests.
Posted via RS Mobile

I was referring to a nurse that someone had mentioned in another thread. Quit making yourself look like such a fucking moron by taking it so literally. Not EVERY nurse makes that much. Some do, and that's a problem, and most make WAY too much. That is the point most people with a functioning brain will understand. Now crawl back into your hole please.

[SpoonFit]

hahaha the government OWNSSSSSSSS.
no ones down to pay more unless they were stupid.

[asahai69]

Originally Posted by 1exotic

had to get new regrestration for my car today, because of the HST I had to pay $600 stacks...

so awesome.

a stack is 1000 bucks.

[dougthediggler]

I think all of you people are retards.

The way some nurses make lots of cash is because:

- they work 12 hour shifts
- they go around taking shifts so they can work doubles or triples to make money
- govt doesnt care and doesnt have policies in place to not pay out all this overtime, because they are part of an essential service
- some switch shifts and work 2 24 hour days in a week then take 5 days off, others work 5 days a week doubles or triples
- their union doesnt give a fuck, as long as they get their dues they will let their employees work themselves to the bone
- they will also be physically fucked up a lot sooner than someone else because of all the time spent on their feet.

[terkan]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I was referring to a nurse that someone had mentioned in another thread. Quit making yourself look like such a fucking moron by taking it so literally. Not EVERY nurse makes that much. Some do, and that's a problem, and most make WAY too much. That is the point most people with a functioning brain will understand. Now crawl back into your hole please.

They make way too much because of what? Your opinion that they make too much? Do you know what services they provide? If they were overpaid, then why would there be a shortage of nurses in BC. Nurses all over would be flooding to live in Vancouver then according to your reasoning. For someone who doesn't work in the health industry, you sure know how to value each service provided. I guess to you pharmacists in the hospitals get paid 80-100k to count pills too zommgg overpaid.

I can't wait to see what happens when you get hospitalized and a nurse overworked and overstressed misadministers you with the wrong medications. We'll see if you think they're overpaid then for the work they do.

I don't see you complaining about the HST being used to pad the bottom lines of corporations and CEOs who do nothing but earn millions in bonuses per year.

[cressydrift]

Cancel the HST, and give the 3 billion back to the federal government? I am sure running 3 billion in the red is good for BC.

I don't understand why you guys are so pissed off. I would much rather have HST, then some BS social program the NDP would have set up. BC has to entice businesses to come here, and stay here for that matter. Having all the tax as one instead of 2 makes sense. It sucks that we have to pay on avg $300-600 dollars more a year but that's life. If you don't like it then move to Alberta. Or you could live in England were there taxes are 21%.

[cressydrift]

Throw this into the nurse argument;

Vancouver Police can work as much O.T as they want. Also can come in and work there days off. That's a waste of money. Bookem Dan'o

[dougthediggler]

Originally Posted by cressydrift

Throw this into the nurse argument;

Vancouver Police can work as much O.T as they want. Also can come in and work there days off. That's a waste of money. Bookem Dan'o

Don't use semi colons if you can't use the proper usage of the word THEIR... hehehe

[cressydrift]

^How long have you been waiting to do that.

Their : colon.

[fishing666]

Originally Posted by cressydrift

^How long have you been waiting to do that.

Their : colon.

yup fix your grammar

[Amaru]

This entire HST debate makes me sad, because I really thought more people would be able to understand the concept and vocalize their support. I'm thankful that British Columbia businesses are sensible enough to mount a legal challenge to the HST petition, and I'm confident that they'll be vindicated by the supreme court. The tax, imo, is here to stay, and that's not such a bad thing.

1) The majority of economists, including all five of the country's largest banks and most university business schools, are supporting the HST wholeheartedly. That's because they understand this will be economically beneficial to British Columbia in the long term.

Yes, there will be an initial cost to the general public, and realistically the HST won't really lower cost of any consumer goods. But by creating a better, more appealing business environment, the new tax scheme will generate more business and increase business profits for almost every raw materials and manufacturing company. This will in turn lead to new jobs, encourage economic growth, and thus increase the living standards of the average British Columbian (either indirectly or directly).

2) The government is like any other individual: they need to balance their income and expenses. If they are irresponsible and spend more than they can afford to, they will need to borrow money. They must pay interest on this money, which ends up costing billions of dollars annually. In some cases, the government may lose the faith of investors and their credit rating will suffer. Loans will become more expensive, and the public will have to deal with increased taxes and social service cuts.

Has anyone noticed what's happening in Greece right now? The country has been totally irresponsible with their finances for many years, and they are now struggling to stay afloat. Pensions are being slashed, social services are being cut in half, and taxes are being raised by enormous amounts. It's a nightmare for the Greek people and it's a clear sign of what can happen if short-term thinking dominates our political sphere.

We cannot have the best of both worlds. If we want to live in a province/country where health care is free, the streets are safe, busses are clean and on-time, education is free, etc.... then we must accept that taxes are an absolute necessity.

And, if we're going to be taxed, then we should at least have a tax scheme that encourages the growth and health of the provincial economy. This is absolutely crucial for the welfare of this province: if BC does not have a vibrant, healthy economy - where people are employed and earning high wages - then there will not be money to provide social services, and we'll really be up shit creek.

If there's this much uproar over a small tax increase, how will people respond to massive social cutbacks or reduced pension plans?

3) Has anyone noticed how Canada is surviving the current recession? Has anyone noticed how we have basically escaped the financial disaster that is going on in the United States and Europe? This survival is thanks to SOUND FISCAL MANAGEMENT.

Unlike most of the other G20 nations, Canada had a budget surplus for most of the past decade. While others were increasing their debt by a huge margin each year, Canada kept it's spending under control. It was painful at the time, especially initially, when social services were cut and many government jobs were axed.

But, although we had to endure short term pain to balance our budgets, we're reaping the rewards now. We boast the healthiest economy of any G8 country, and our future looks very bright compared to almost every other developed nation.

We need to step back and look at the big picture: we may suffer in the short term, and we may have to hand over our hard-earned money to the government. But in the long term, when other provinces and countries are struggling under their debt load, we'll (God willing) be enjoying a healthy, growing economy. Our taxation policies will encourage businesses to operate here, and will result in lower unemployment and more social services.

4) The HST is not going to be a huge burden for most people. It may be as high as $500 for a family of four, and that's a lot of money if you're already struggling to make ends meet. But the tax money isn't going into a black hole; most of it will be used to provide services to the public. Low-income families are the ones that need such services the most.

Frankly, I am irritated that there weren't further concessions made for low-income families, but even with the current policies this won't be a huge burden for most people.

It boggles my mind how much anger there is aimed at the HST while municipalities are able to raise property taxes by 20% or more without the public making any fuss at all. For most people, even a small increase in property taxes will cost far more than the HST. And at least the HST has intrinsic long-term benefits to the provincial economy. Municipal governments are able to escape scrutiny despite abhorrent financial management and grossly bloated budgets.

4) The funniest thing, to me, is when people argue that "the government is only implementing the HST for their own benefit". What benefit? The Campbell government and the BC Liberals are essentially committing political suicide with this tax. They have absolutely NOTHING to gain and they are almost certain to lose the upcoming election thanks to the HST.

Why would the government implement a policy that's bad for consumers, bad for the province, and bad for it's public image? That's totally nonsensical, and our politicians are far more shrewd than that.

No, they're shooting themselves in the head by implementing this tax, and they're doing it because they firmly believe it will have major long-term benefits for the province. They're doing it because all of the research and the leading economists have said, "this is a way to ensure BC stays competitive, continues to be an economic powerhouse, and continues to have the finances to fund social services". Trust me, this policy would never, EVER have left the boardroom table unless there was strong reason to believe it would be very beneficial in the long run.

5) There ARE reasons to be angry at the Campbell government. There's absolutely no question about that.

Most importantly, there's the issue of honesty: Campbell said there would be no HST, but he implemented it anyway. But the policy itself is NOT the issue, the government's trustworthiness is. We can vocalize our displeasure at the next election by voting someone else into office. But that needs to be separated from the tax itself, which is rooted in the need for sound fiscal and economic policy management.

Secondly, there's the issue of the short-term consumer costs: A small portion of very-low income families and individuals will struggle to deal with the costs added by the HST, even if they're small. There should be low-income HST rebates and/or exemptions for those who qualify. IMO, for the first few years, much of the revenue generated by the HST should be given back to the public in the form of rebates. This will help soften the blow of this new tax for those who can't afford it, and will allow people some time to understand and learn why this isn't such a disastrous tax.

Last but not least, the government did a piss-poor job of selling this tax to the public. Most people have absolutely no idea why it's here or what benefits it might represent down the road. They're blinded by the initial increase in consumer costs, and it's not surprising. There should have been a huge effort to sell this tax to the public, much like there was for Campbell's government cut-backs when he first entered office.


Nonetheless, all of these issues aside, the fundamental principle remains: this tax will make BC more appealing to businesses, and will eventually lead to increased employment and higher incomes. It will also add $1.6-billion to provincial coffers, reducing the need for reductions in social service and improving our chances of balancing the budget.

If we want to continue to enjoy our quality of life and our current level of social services, then we'll have to endure the short term pain associated with slightly higher taxes.

And hey, I'm not a Liberal fanboy by any means... I'm just as irritated as everyone else, but I'm trying to see the bigger picture and do what's right for my province in the long run.

In this case, a combined value-added HST tax makes a lot more sense, because it will encourage business growth and stands to result in many new jobs being created. We can't just sit back and watch as the rest of Canada - and the world - adopt business-friendly policies and invest in their economy.

Personally, I'd rather not end up like Greece, and I'll support any tax or government initiative that's founded upon sound economic and financial policies.

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by cressydrift

Cancel the HST, and give the 3 billion back to the federal government? I am sure running 3 billion in the red is good for BC.

I don't understand why you guys are so pissed off. I would much rather have HST, then some BS social program the NDP would have set up. BC has to entice businesses to come here, and stay here for that matter. Having all the tax as one instead of 2 makes sense. It sucks that we have to pay on avg $300-600 dollars more a year but that's life. If you don't like it then move to Alberta. Or you could live in England were there taxes are 21%.

business's will come regardless as long as there is a market here. H

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

business's will come regardless as long as there is a market here. H

Thank God you're not running this province.

Business will go wherever there are low taxes, a highly-educated workforce, and a consumer market that can afford their goods/services.

In order to create a business-friendly environment, you need to enact policies that encourage entrepreneurial activity and business growth. Doing so will then stimulate the economy, lower unemployment, increase wages, fill the government's coffers, and enable the province to provide social services to the public.

If you don't stay competitive, businesses will go elsewhere, jobs will be scarce, and quality of living will drop. The "market" only exists if there are people with high-paying jobs to buy goods and services... and these jobs only come if companies want to operate here.

That's simple economics and sound logic, nothing more.

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by Amaru

Thank God you're not running this province.

Business will go wherever there are low taxes, a highly-educated workforce, and a consumer market that can afford their goods/services.

In order to create a business-friendly environment, you need to enact policies that encourage entrepreneurial activity and business growth. Doing so will then stimulate the economy, lower unemployment, increase wages, fill the government's coffers, and enable the province to provide social services to the public.

If you don't stay competitive, businesses will go elsewhere, jobs will be scarce, and quality of living will drop. That's simple economics and sound logic, nothing more.

Again, Business's will come here as long as there is a market.

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by terkan

I can't wait to see what happens when you get hospitalized and a nurse overworked and overstressed misadministers you with the wrong medications. We'll see if you think they're overpaid then for the work they do.

I don't see you complaining about the HST being used to pad the bottom lines of corporations and CEOs who do nothing but earn millions in bonuses per year.

So you're arguing in favour of public health, yes? You're advocating for continued funding for nurses and other health care practitioners? You want to live in a province that can afford to employ enough nurses for the number of patients?

If so, you better rethink your take on the HST, because most of the it's those "corporations and CEOs" paying the taxes that end up funding our public health care. And if they're not directly paying tax and funding health care, then they're paying employees fair wages and contributing to the overall economic health of this province. Without them, there's no jobs and no money for nurses or health care.

Think about the big picture, people. We enjoy our lavish lifestyle and social services because our governments can afford them (barely). Government can afford them because they have a strong tax base thanks to high employment and a strong economy.

Big picture. Big picture. Big picture...

[terkan]

Originally Posted by Amaru

So you're arguing in favour of public health, yes? You're advocating for continued funding for nurses and other health care practitioners? You want to live in a province that can afford to employ enough nurses for the number of patients?

If so, you better rethink your take on the HST, because most of the it's those "corporations and CEOs" paying the taxes that end up funding our public health care. And if they're not directly paying tax and funding health care, then they're paying employees fair wages and contributing to the overall economic health of this province. Without them, there's no jobs and no money for nurses or health care.

Think about the big picture, people. We enjoy our lavish lifestyle and social services because our governments can afford them (barely). Government can afford them because they have a strong tax base thanks to high employment and a strong economy.

Big picture. Big picture. Big picture...

If you read my posts, I did not complain about the HST. Skinnypupp is scapegoating healthcare workers as the cause of the HST, when in fact it is to promote business.

P.S. Skinnypupp, kind of sad you think anyone here cares about fails (I notice u don't let people fail you)

[SkinnyPupp]

People don't think about the big picture, they only think about how much more expensive their next ipod purchase is going to be

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

Again, Business's will come here as long as there is a market.

Thank you for repeating the same senseless statement again.

How the fuck do you think a "market" is created and sustained? How do people afford consumer goods if they're not employed? How does this "market" exist without a healthy economy?

Honestly, man, I'm not trying to be rude... but clearly you haven't thought this through at all.