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Old 08-07-2010, 10:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
Just like how he could travel to Japan, France, Kenya, etc, all without actually traveling. He was just "there". Nolan is too meticulous a director to succumb to shitty editing, so it was probably done this way on purpose.
While on the plane in Japan, Arthur asks, "Why Paris?", to which Cobb replies something along the lines of "This such-and-such school. I need an architect." Also, while he's in France, he tells Arthur that he needs to meet the forger in Kenya. This continuity tells us that this globe-hopping is not a dream.
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:23 PM   #52
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It is NOT a dream: The WEDDING RING gives it away.

We start the movie with Cobb in limbo with Saito, he is wearing a ring. Step back to the beginning, he is trying to convince Saito to let him into his mind to help protect it, this takes place in a dream two layers down. He is wearing a wedding ring. Things go south and we wake up in the apartment, where we think an angry mob is really coming down the street. They threaten Saito's life with him thinking it is reality, only for him to discover otherwise. In this entire scene Cobb is wearing a wedding ring. Wake up on the train, NO WEDDING RING. In the hotel suite on the phone with his kids, NO WEDDING RING. On the roof talking to Saito, NO WEDDING RING. France, the architecture university, NO WEDDING RING. The coffee shop in Ariadne's first shared dream, Cobb is wearing his wedding ring, she freaks out. They wake up in the workshop, NO WEDDING RING. They go back under and Ariadne explores the physics of the dreamworld, again Cobb is wearing a wedding ring.

Cobb goes to see Eames, the entire time not wearing a ring. He meets the new chemist, still no ring. The chemist gives him a quick taste of his latest potion, in that scene we get a quick glimpse of his hand with a WEDDING RING. Wakes up, no ring. See the pattern?

So finally, the inception. We are on the plane, we clearly see is not wearing a ring. Level 1, WEDDING RING, Level 2, WEDDING RING, Level 3 WEDDING RING, Limbo he is wearing his WEDDING RING.

After he meets Saito as an old man, the conversation continues past what we saw in the beginning, yet even here he is wearing a WEDDING RING still. Then, when Saito reaches for the gun, we are on an airplane. He is not wearing a wedding ring here.

HERE IS THE KEY. As he is walking through the terminal, no ring, as he is greeted by father in law, no ring, when he gets home and spins his totem, no ring.

In his dreams he is married to Mul still, as she can still exist there. In reality, he knows she is dead and does not wear a wedding ring as he is no longer married. A simple yet easily unnoticed way to test which parts are reality.

Not done there, I investigated another thing, Cobb's totem:

I have seen many posts of people saying his totem falls when he is in others' dreams. This is simply not true. People say it wobbles and falls over in the beginning. I watched and listened closely, Saito spins the top and we hear it spinning as the scene cuts to the young Saito. Then, in the end when we see him old again, he looks down and it is still spinning, he knows he is not in reality and goes for the gun.

When Cobb uses inception on Mul, it continues and never stops. In the hotel after the failed Saito mission, it falls. A funny thing to note is that every scene in which the top spins endlessly he is wearing a WEDDING RING. In the scenes in which it topples, he is not.

Now, the awakening scene. Looks an awful lot like a dream right? Not really. He wakes up on the plane surprised, but everyone is smiling. They woke up from the sedatives, but Cobb and Saito were down in limbo. When they got back, everyone is happy to see he made it, Saito looks just as stunned only backing up the fact that he really snapped back to reality. They are all getting bags, going through customs, etc. Everyone looks at each other with a grin because they know inception worked and that Cobb is finally home. Not very dream-like except that it seems like a dream come true. Had the scene after he and Saito with the gun been him in his home, him on his way to his home, etc, I would think it is a dream. No, he awakens in EXACTLY the place he went to sleep to start inception. You never really know how you get to where you are in a dream do you? Then how does he know he is on a plane and just successfully completed inception on Robert Fischer, the man in front of him?

Finally, the home scene. Looks like a dream? In this case, yes it does. we see the children exactly where they were, doing the same thing, wearing the same clothes. They appear the same age. On my second viewing this was red flag that it was a dream. But on my third viewing I noticed slight differences, such as the kids looking slightly older. The cast list has two sets of kids listed, ones slightly older than the others. They are not voice casts but actual actors in the film. I especially noticed a difference as the camera pans towards the totem, I chose to focus on the back door with the kids. The girl is seen throwing herself on her father, in this scene she looks clearly older than the memory he has of her.

And of course, the totem itself. I watched each spin my third time through. It spun flawlessly for a while, began to wobble slightly, then started a hard wobble then fall. In the final scene it appears to be spinning smoothly for a long time, he probably gave it a lot of power. It starts to slightly wobble, and the screen goes black after it begins a HARD WOBBLE as if it is about to topple, not correct itself.

Conclusion: The movie isn't a dream, Cobb isn't caught in some "limbo that looks a lot like reality." Cobb spends the entire movie trying to get to his kids in reality, why would he settle for shades in a limbo? What proof is there that he is dreaming the whole time? If he is dreaming at the end, where is he dreaming? Limbo? So he goes from talking to Saito to just waking up on a plane, all as a part of a dream in limbo? Really? Think about it.

Nolan would never take the "eeet was aaaaalll a dreeeeaaaammmmm" cliche way out. But the fact that he cut the film before the top falls over does have a meaning. He is planting a seed of doubt in your mind. He uses inception on the audience to have them question the ending. The concept of the movie thus becomes reality to the viewer, a heavy thing to think about and something that hasn't been done before.

But all the evidence points to reality.
Using same logic:

In every scene where Cobb sees his children = he was in a dream.

Therefore in the last scene he sees his children = a dream.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:08 AM   #53
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just watched the movie.. i think i need to watch it a few more times.. my head's completely blank right now.. there's to much detail and to much subtleties in dialogue, the ending just mind fucked me hard..
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Old 08-08-2010, 03:29 AM   #54
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Quote:
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This continuity tells us that this globe-hopping is not a dream.
How?
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:17 AM   #55
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Using same logic:


In every scene where Cobb sees his children = he was in a dream.

Therefore in the last scene he sees his children = a dream.
*Possible SPOILER*

You're missing a prerequisite for this one though. What he sees should be consistent.

The wedding ring all looks the same.

But the children in the end are not the same children from the dreams. imdb even shows that the child actors in the end scene are even older than the child actors used for the visions/dreams.




Daughter 1 Phillipa (3 years)
Son 1 James (20 months)

Daughter 2 Phillipa (5 years)
Son 2 James (3 years)
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:29 AM   #56
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Enough with the "different child actors" thing I keep seeing. The reason for that was for the beach scene, where the kids were babies.
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Old 08-08-2010, 05:04 PM   #57
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Enough with the "different child actors" thing I keep seeing. The reason for that was for the beach scene, where the kids were babies.
holy fuck. hes right.
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #58
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http://pascal.alseyn.net/galaxy/Inception-Explained.png
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:31 PM   #59
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^ Disagree, again

That chart does let you easily notice that only very few characters have full names though

The ones with no full names = characters in a dream perhaps?
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:01 PM   #60
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To quote the most misunderstood individual and figurehead on Revscene:

"I am a changed person."

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Old 08-08-2010, 11:27 PM   #61
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:39 PM   #62
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that poster wasnt really well done...dont agree
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:31 AM   #63
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wouldn't it be funny if the dvd came out and there were 2 alternate endings; 1 where the strudle keeps spinning, the other where it just falls lol
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:45 AM   #64
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See the original thread of this theory to read all the arguments against it. This post in particular brings up most of the things I would have. I also would have mentioned that Cobb appeared confused when he 'warped' from the airport to "home", with no time passing in between.

Because as the movie had established, when you are in a dream, you don't know how you got there. You are just there.

Just like how he could travel to Japan, France, Kenya, etc, all without actually traveling. He was just "there". Nolan is too meticulous a director to succumb to shitty editing, so it was probably done this way on purpose. There would also be a plot hole that he is traveling to all these countries on the run for murder. He would have been extradited from Japan immediately. Same as Kenya, they both have extradition treaties with the US.

It's been a while since I watched it, but wasn't Fisher's flight from Australia? So there's another country they 'leaped' to (and another which would have extradited Cobb).

Then the big plot hole that would have opened had this been reality, where Saito somehow has the power to buy Cobb's innocence with a phone call... what? He may be an energy tycoon, but come on.

My theory is, it was a dream. Perhaps an inception on Cobb himself. When his wife jumped off the building, SHE was the one who knew they were in limbo. She went back to reality, he didn't. The ring is only in other dreams because it's his totem (the top is his wife's totem). He had relieved himself of his guilt, and has basically given up and will "live" the rest of time with his kids.
I agree. The whole movie was a dream. Cobb was in a limbo the whole time.

Starting scene - he's in the beach that looks like the one in the world him and his wife created. Meet Saito when he's old in the future. Refers to how they've seen each other in the past or know about his totem. (How did he get to this "reality"?)

Jumps to another level - Cobb is there trying to extract Saito's mind. Did not get the information he wanted because there was no information. He needed an idea seed that this japanese guy is powerful enough to bring him home.

Leads of other layers of dream throughout the movie.

His wife gave it away in the end that he created all this. A japanese guy to help him etc... leading to the ending scene of his home with his kids.

Other points - During the 3 level inception. Every character snapped out of each level. Cobb did not. He went from the 3rd level to reality. The only way to explain it is that he is in a dream and he jumped to another level.

Remember how he talks about his wife locking away an idea or a truth to forget. He's going through this whole inception to lock away the idea that he's in a limbo or that he's stuck subconsciously. To lock away all the doubts of reality and everything. To make him finally committed to accept he's with his kids.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:01 PM   #65
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This is the best explanation of the movie I have come across.

The whole issue I couldn't get over of it "just being a dream" is WHY was it just a dream? If a whole movie is "just a dream" it feels like nothing was at stake. Nothing was accomplished.

But this writer's theory, if correct, proves that it "just being a dream" is exactly what was needed, and in my mind makes the movie even better than I had originally thought.

It's a metaphor, but more importantly, a really fucking good movie. How meta is that!
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:26 PM   #66
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^^ I just read that theory and was going to post it. Beat me to it.....
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:40 PM   #67
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Just don't read the comments, because there are some really hateful, spiteful people in there who can't accept that the movie can be interpreted in many ways (like dreams). Being typical anonymous internet trolls, they defend their positions in the most vulgar, annoying ways possible.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:05 PM   #68
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I have one question. How does Cobb's projections enter other people's dreams?
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:27 PM   #69
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Because the "other people" don't exist. They are all one person's dream.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:36 PM   #70
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Just don't read the comments, because there are some really hateful, spiteful people in there who can't accept that the movie can be interpreted in many ways (like dreams). Being typical anonymous internet trolls, they defend their positions in the most vulgar, annoying ways possible.
Then there's entertaining ones such as:

Quote:
It WAS ALL A DREAM, I USED TO READ 'WORD UP' MAGAZINE, SALT & PEPPA AND HEAVY D UP IN THE LIMOUSINE
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:36 PM   #71
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This is the best explanation of the movie I have come across.

The whole issue I couldn't get over of it "just being a dream" is WHY was it just a dream? If a whole movie is "just a dream" it feels like nothing was at stake. Nothing was accomplished.

But this writer's theory, if correct, proves that it "just being a dream" is exactly what was needed, and in my mind makes the movie even better than I had originally thought.

It's a metaphor, but more importantly, a really fucking good movie. How meta is that!
good read, but i cant take this guy seriously when he starts off by saying "I think that in a couple of years this will become the accepted reading of the film, and differing interpretations will have to be skillfully argued to be even remotely considered." and then fills the article with his opinions and saying things like "To be honest, I haven't quite solidified my thought..." how can you state "this is the way the movie is" when you dont even know what your opinion on it is.


in the end, this is simply a fantastic movie which leaves the door open to many interpretations. like a good dream, there are different ways it can be taken, many of which are 'right'.


while all the different ideas are interesting to look at, i am satisfied with my idea that this movie unfolds as it appears.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:39 AM   #72
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:49 AM   #73
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:19 PM   #74
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LOL the plot holes are turning into dumb meme comics now
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:13 PM   #75
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Questions:

What were Cobb and Saito doing in the beginning of the movie? (when they were in a dream in a dream) Cobb had failed what mission?

And why would Mal sabotage Cobb in his own dreams?
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